met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Everybody okay in paris?, by met on Jan 22, 2015 4:39:51 GMT 1, I can only imagine the nonsense talked/shouted on this thread. I'm not going to read it. As a Muslim (and proud) My understanding is that not even doing 'The Haj' pilgrimage wipes away the sin of murder. These clearly uneducated murderers will rot forever. Clearly what this magazine published was never going to do anything but cause outrage amongst Muslims and many Non-Muslims who understand how offensive it is to Islam to do what they did. That still doesn't justify murder. It seems education for both parties the Magazine and the Killers would have helped somewhat. Clearly killing hundreds of thousands of people like Blair and Bush Jnr did is the way to go about getting away mass murder. Surely they should be brought to justice ?. "f**k Mini baby bels" my favorite quote from 'Four Lions'. IMO a great film which if you haven't seen, you should take the time to watch. Take it to mean whatever you like. I'll bite.
Charlie Hebdo is a satirical paper, not unlike Britain's Private Eye. Its job is to satirise, lampoon and be irreverent. That has always been the case, whether the target was Catholics, Muslims, Jews, the Far Right, politicians in power, celebrities,โ whomever.
The paper is an equal opportunity piss-taker. No one's off-limits, especially not extremists. And no one has the right to not be offended.
A dozen journalists, much-loved cartoonists and others were executed when Charlie Hebdo's offices were attacked.
For you then to suggest a few days later that "education" for the magazine "would have helped somewhat" โ as if staff at the magazine shared in the blame by exercising their freedom of expression โ is crass and repulsive.
I can only imagine the nonsense talked/shouted on this thread. I'm not going to read it. As a Muslim (and proud) My understanding is that not even doing 'The Haj' pilgrimage wipes away the sin of murder. These clearly uneducated murderers will rot forever. Clearly what this magazine published was never going to do anything but cause outrage amongst Muslims and many Non-Muslims who understand how offensive it is to Islam to do what they did. That still doesn't justify murder. It seems education for both parties the Magazine and the Killers would have helped somewhat. Clearly killing hundreds of thousands of people like Blair and Bush Jnr did is the way to go about getting away mass murder. Surely they should be brought to justice ?. "f**k Mini baby bels" my favorite quote from 'Four Lions'. IMO a great film which if you haven't seen, you should take the time to watch. Take it to mean whatever you like. I'll bite. Charlie Hebdo is a satirical paper, not unlike Britain's Private Eye. Its job is to satirise, lampoon and be irreverent. That has always been the case, whether the target was Catholics, Muslims, Jews, the Far Right, politicians in power, celebrities,โ whomever. The paper is an equal opportunity piss-taker. No one's off-limits, especially not extremists. And no one has the right to not be offended. A dozen journalists, much-loved cartoonists and others were executed when Charlie Hebdo's offices were attacked. For you then to suggest a few days later that "education" for the magazine "would have helped somewhat" โ as if staff at the magazine shared in the blame by exercising their freedom of expression โ is crass and repulsive.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Everybody okay in paris?, by met on Jan 22, 2015 4:47:43 GMT 1, Comparing this to Nigeria is very tough. Nigeria was and is far worse of an event, they just dont have the political or marketing mindset to rally, call the media, and do things such as holding hands in the street for photos, to catch the attention. Thats all this is, marketing and PR. Gaining airtime to turn a tragedy into a triumph. Im at the point where I cant read or watch the news, especially if it involves children. Its not that I dont want it to stop, its that my creative mind automatically brings my family into it and I begin to visualize myself in their shoes. That feeling doesnt go away for a few days, so Ive simply stopped watching. Humanity is a virus, one that kills cells (Planets) and eradicates itself and its resources. There are beauties to life, of course. There is art. But as I said before, its a scary place, and there is a lot of threat out there, from millions of people. If you dont have children, you may not understand it yet, but you worry all the time. I may have misunderstood the text I highlighted, but it comes across to me as cynical, reductive and dismissive in the extreme.
Comparing this to Nigeria is very tough. Nigeria was and is far worse of an event, they just dont have the political or marketing mindset to rally, call the media, and do things such as holding hands in the street for photos, to catch the attention. Thats all this is, marketing and PR. Gaining airtime to turn a tragedy into a triumph. Im at the point where I cant read or watch the news, especially if it involves children. Its not that I dont want it to stop, its that my creative mind automatically brings my family into it and I begin to visualize myself in their shoes. That feeling doesnt go away for a few days, so Ive simply stopped watching. Humanity is a virus, one that kills cells (Planets) and eradicates itself and its resources. There are beauties to life, of course. There is art. But as I said before, its a scary place, and there is a lot of threat out there, from millions of people. If you dont have children, you may not understand it yet, but you worry all the time. I may have misunderstood the text I highlighted, but it comes across to me as cynical, reductive and dismissive in the extreme.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 10:04:47 GMT 1, I can only imagine the nonsense talked/shouted on this thread. I'm not going to read it. As a Muslim (and proud) My understanding is that not even doing 'The Haj' pilgrimage wipes away the sin of murder. These clearly uneducated murderers will rot forever. Clearly what this magazine published was never going to do anything but cause outrage amongst Muslims and many Non-Muslims who understand how offensive it is to Islam to do what they did. That still doesn't justify murder. It seems education for both parties the Magazine and the Killers would have helped somewhat. Clearly killing hundreds of thousands of people like Blair and Bush Jnr did is the way to go about getting away mass murder. Surely they should be brought to justice ?. "f**k Mini baby bels" my favorite quote from 'Four Lions'. IMO a great film which if you haven't seen, you should take the time to watch. Take it to mean whatever you like. I'll bite. Charlie Hebdo is a satirical paper, not unlike Britain's Private Eye. Its job is to satirise, lampoon and be irreverent. That has always been the case, whether the target was Catholics, Muslims, Jews, the Far Right, politicians in power, celebrities,โ whomever. The paper is an equal opportunity piss-taker. No one's off-limits, especially not extremists. And no one has the right to not be offended. A dozen journalists, much-loved cartoonists and others were executed when Charlie Hebdo's offices were attacked. For you then to suggest a few days later that "education" for the magazine "would have helped somewhat" โ as if staff at the magazine shared in the blame by exercising their freedom of expression โ is crass and repulsive. Feel free in your right to bite away. As my opinion is "crass and repulsive" to you. So are the cartoons CH continue to publish of the Prophet Mohamed to Millions of Muslims. Just Because it's their job, doesn't mean their right to do that. It's loads of peoples jobs to do things, however people fuck up every day(Blair going into Iraq for instance and killing far to many innocent people) Still that doesn't make it right they were killed. It's OK to take the piss out of people, including Muslims(see that Chris Morris isn't on hit lists). But you have to understand the depth of feeling in Islam for the Prophet Mohamed runs deep. You are not supposed to replicate the image of Mohamed in any way. I would have thought 'by now' that people were aware there were Islamic extremists in this world (regardless of us not liking/wanting it). So I stand by my comments about education on both sides. This shouldn't have happened.
I can only imagine the nonsense talked/shouted on this thread. I'm not going to read it. As a Muslim (and proud) My understanding is that not even doing 'The Haj' pilgrimage wipes away the sin of murder. These clearly uneducated murderers will rot forever. Clearly what this magazine published was never going to do anything but cause outrage amongst Muslims and many Non-Muslims who understand how offensive it is to Islam to do what they did. That still doesn't justify murder. It seems education for both parties the Magazine and the Killers would have helped somewhat. Clearly killing hundreds of thousands of people like Blair and Bush Jnr did is the way to go about getting away mass murder. Surely they should be brought to justice ?. "f**k Mini baby bels" my favorite quote from 'Four Lions'. IMO a great film which if you haven't seen, you should take the time to watch. Take it to mean whatever you like. I'll bite. Charlie Hebdo is a satirical paper, not unlike Britain's Private Eye. Its job is to satirise, lampoon and be irreverent. That has always been the case, whether the target was Catholics, Muslims, Jews, the Far Right, politicians in power, celebrities,โ whomever. The paper is an equal opportunity piss-taker. No one's off-limits, especially not extremists. And no one has the right to not be offended. A dozen journalists, much-loved cartoonists and others were executed when Charlie Hebdo's offices were attacked. For you then to suggest a few days later that "education" for the magazine "would have helped somewhat" โ as if staff at the magazine shared in the blame by exercising their freedom of expression โ is crass and repulsive. Feel free in your right to bite away. As my opinion is "crass and repulsive" to you. So are the cartoons CH continue to publish of the Prophet Mohamed to Millions of Muslims. Just Because it's their job, doesn't mean their right to do that. It's loads of peoples jobs to do things, however people fuck up every day(Blair going into Iraq for instance and killing far to many innocent people) Still that doesn't make it right they were killed. It's OK to take the piss out of people, including Muslims(see that Chris Morris isn't on hit lists). But you have to understand the depth of feeling in Islam for the Prophet Mohamed runs deep. You are not supposed to replicate the image of Mohamed in any way. I would have thought 'by now' that people were aware there were Islamic extremists in this world (regardless of us not liking/wanting it). So I stand by my comments about education on both sides. This shouldn't have happened.
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Wearology
Junior Member
Staff at FatFreeArt
Posts โข 3,567
Likes โข 4,432
April 2008
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Wearology on Jan 22, 2015 12:45:17 GMT 1, "IF THE FOLLOWERS LEAD - THE LEADERS WILL SOON FOLLOW"
"IF THE FOLLOWERS LEAD - THE LEADERS WILL SOON FOLLOW"
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misterx
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,433
Likes โข 539
December 2010
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Everybody okay in paris?, by misterx on Jan 23, 2015 2:03:14 GMT 1, I can only imagine the nonsense talked/shouted on this thread. I'm not going to read it. As a Muslim (and proud) My understanding is that not even doing 'The Haj' pilgrimage wipes away the sin of murder. These clearly uneducated murderers will rot forever. Clearly what this magazine published was never going to do anything but cause outrage amongst Muslims and many Non-Muslims who understand how offensive it is to Islam to do what they did. That still doesn't justify murder. It seems education for both parties the Magazine and the Killers would have helped somewhat. Clearly killing hundreds of thousands of people like Blair and Bush Jnr did is the way to go about getting away mass murder. Surely they should be brought to justice ?. "f**k Mini baby bels" my favorite quote from 'Four Lions'. IMO a great film which if you haven't seen, you should take the time to watch. Take it to mean whatever you like. I'll bite. Charlie Hebdo is a satirical paper, not unlike Britain's Private Eye. Its job is to satirise, lampoon and be irreverent. That has always been the case, whether the target was Catholics, Muslims, Jews, the Far Right, politicians in power, celebrities,โ whomever. The paper is an equal opportunity piss-taker. No one's off-limits, especially not extremists. And no one has the right to not be offended. A dozen journalists, much-loved cartoonists and others were executed when Charlie Hebdo's offices were attacked. For you then to suggest a few days later that "education" for the magazine "would have helped somewhat" โ as if staff at the magazine shared in the blame by exercising their freedom of expression โ is crass and repulsive. I'm biting too... No one has the right to be offended? Really? I think people have every right to be offended should something be deemed offensive. Where that line lies is the big question. For example, it seems in your world that nothing is off limits...
How about some cartoons depicting 9/11 victims falling from the WTC?
Or Holocaust Humour?
Or taking the piss out of Iraq War Vets from Britain or America or Australia who returned home as quadraplegics?
No chance. Why? Because they are deemed off limits. And rightly so. For the purposes of law and order we all agree that certain things, in the interests of decency, remain off limits.
What about the "thought experiment" by Oxford philosopher Brian Klug... Imagine, he writes, if a man had joined the "unity rally" in Paris on 11 January "wearing a badge that said 'Je suis Chรฉrif'" - the first name of one of the Charlie Hebdo gunmen. Suppose, Klug adds, he carried a placard with a cartoon mocking the murdered journalists. "How would the crowd have reacted?... Would they have seen this lone individual as a hero, standing up for liberty and freedom of speech? Or would they have been profoundly offended?" Do you disagree with Klug's conclusion that the man "would have been lucky to get away with his life"?
Lastly, but no more importantly, CH does not target Jews.You are wrong there met.CH is most certainly not an equal opportunity piss taker. Maurice Sinet, a very well known French satirical cartoonist, was fired from his position at CH a week after the magazine published a cartoon he drew which was targeted by jews as being anti semitic. He sued for wrongful dismissal and won 40,000E. "Sinรฉt also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defense League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think."
I also agree with slammer when he points out the politicians using the horror as a PR exercise is spot on.
Netanyahoo's IDF killed 7 journalists in Gaza in 2014; Merkel's germany will lock you up for 5 years if you dare get into some revisionist history regarding WWII...
Freedom of expression? Only when we say you can...
I can only imagine the nonsense talked/shouted on this thread. I'm not going to read it. As a Muslim (and proud) My understanding is that not even doing 'The Haj' pilgrimage wipes away the sin of murder. These clearly uneducated murderers will rot forever. Clearly what this magazine published was never going to do anything but cause outrage amongst Muslims and many Non-Muslims who understand how offensive it is to Islam to do what they did. That still doesn't justify murder. It seems education for both parties the Magazine and the Killers would have helped somewhat. Clearly killing hundreds of thousands of people like Blair and Bush Jnr did is the way to go about getting away mass murder. Surely they should be brought to justice ?. "f**k Mini baby bels" my favorite quote from 'Four Lions'. IMO a great film which if you haven't seen, you should take the time to watch. Take it to mean whatever you like. I'll bite. Charlie Hebdo is a satirical paper, not unlike Britain's Private Eye. Its job is to satirise, lampoon and be irreverent. That has always been the case, whether the target was Catholics, Muslims, Jews, the Far Right, politicians in power, celebrities,โ whomever. The paper is an equal opportunity piss-taker. No one's off-limits, especially not extremists. And no one has the right to not be offended. A dozen journalists, much-loved cartoonists and others were executed when Charlie Hebdo's offices were attacked. For you then to suggest a few days later that "education" for the magazine "would have helped somewhat" โ as if staff at the magazine shared in the blame by exercising their freedom of expression โ is crass and repulsive. I'm biting too... No one has the right to be offended? Really? I think people have every right to be offended should something be deemed offensive. Where that line lies is the big question. For example, it seems in your world that nothing is off limits... How about some cartoons depicting 9/11 victims falling from the WTC? Or Holocaust Humour? Or taking the piss out of Iraq War Vets from Britain or America or Australia who returned home as quadraplegics? No chance. Why? Because they are deemed off limits. And rightly so. For the purposes of law and order we all agree that certain things, in the interests of decency, remain off limits. What about the "thought experiment" by Oxford philosopher Brian Klug... Imagine, he writes, if a man had joined the "unity rally" in Paris on 11 January "wearing a badge that said 'Je suis Chรฉrif'" - the first name of one of the Charlie Hebdo gunmen. Suppose, Klug adds, he carried a placard with a cartoon mocking the murdered journalists. "How would the crowd have reacted?... Would they have seen this lone individual as a hero, standing up for liberty and freedom of speech? Or would they have been profoundly offended?" Do you disagree with Klug's conclusion that the man "would have been lucky to get away with his life"? Lastly, but no more importantly, CH does not target Jews.You are wrong there met.CH is most certainly not an equal opportunity piss taker. Maurice Sinet, a very well known French satirical cartoonist, was fired from his position at CH a week after the magazine published a cartoon he drew which was targeted by jews as being anti semitic. He sued for wrongful dismissal and won 40,000E. "Sinรฉt also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defense League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think." I also agree with slammer when he points out the politicians using the horror as a PR exercise is spot on. Netanyahoo's IDF killed 7 journalists in Gaza in 2014; Merkel's germany will lock you up for 5 years if you dare get into some revisionist history regarding WWII... Freedom of expression? Only when we say you can...
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bitcoinbarry
New Member
Posts โข 76
Likes โข 30
December 2013
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Everybody okay in paris?, by bitcoinbarry on Jan 23, 2015 10:19:58 GMT 1, I'll bite. Charlie Hebdo is a satirical paper, not unlike Britain's Private Eye. Its job is to satirise, lampoon and be irreverent. That has always been the case, whether the target was Catholics, Muslims, Jews, the Far Right, politicians in power, celebrities,โ whomever. The paper is an equal opportunity piss-taker. No one's off-limits, especially not extremists. And no one has the right to not be offended. A dozen journalists, much-loved cartoonists and others were executed when Charlie Hebdo's offices were attacked. For you then to suggest a few days later that "education" for the magazine "would have helped somewhat" โ as if staff at the magazine shared in the blame by exercising their freedom of expression โ is crass and repulsive. I'm biting too... No one has the right to be offended? Really? I think people have every right to be offended should something be deemed offensive. Where that line lies is the big question. For example, it seems in your world that nothing is off limits... How about some cartoons depicting 9/11 victims falling from the WTC? Or Holocaust Humour? Or taking the piss out of Iraq War Vets from Britain or America or Australia who returned home as quadraplegics? No chance. Why? Because they are deemed off limits. And rightly so. For the purposes of law and order we all agree that certain things, in the interests of decency, remain off limits. What about the "thought experiment" by Oxford philosopher Brian Klug... Imagine, he writes, if a man had joined the "unity rally" in Paris on 11 January "wearing a badge that said 'Je suis Chรฉrif'" - the first name of one of the Charlie Hebdo gunmen. Suppose, Klug adds, he carried a placard with a cartoon mocking the murdered journalists. "How would the crowd have reacted?... Would they have seen this lone individual as a hero, standing up for liberty and freedom of speech? Or would they have been profoundly offended?" Do you disagree with Klug's conclusion that the man "would have been lucky to get away with his life"? Lastly, but no more importantly, CH does not target Jews.You are wrong there met.CH is most certainly not an equal opportunity piss taker. Maurice Sinet, a very well known French satirical cartoonist, was fired from his position at CH a week after the magazine published a cartoon he drew which was targeted by jews as being anti semitic. He sued for wrongful dismissal and won 40,000E. "Sinรฉt also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defense League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think." I also agree with slammer when he points out the politicians using the horror as a PR exercise is spot on. Netanyahoo's IDF killed 7 journalists in Gaza in 2014; Merkel's germany will lock you up for 5 years if you dare get into some revisionist history regarding WWII... Freedom of expression? Only when we say you can... Couple of quick points. My opinions are reasonably close to Met. The discussion shouldn't be around the right to be offended - it should be about the response to that offense. The examples that misterx gives as being off limits, well, perhaps that is so - where he lives. Like the Brian Klug experiment - probably a reasonable assumption if it was carried out in NY or London or Paris. Think you'd get the same result in Kabul or Islamabad?
Are rather simplistic analogy would be a siuation if I had a neighbour, who hates smoking, and knows I smoke, coming into my house and thrashing me because he knows it goes on in there.
Just one other thing - there are any number of atrocities being comitted around the world in the name of religiion, bigotry and, lest we forget, business. An argument in defense of secularism is not necessarily support for the genocides comitted in our names.
I'll bite. Charlie Hebdo is a satirical paper, not unlike Britain's Private Eye. Its job is to satirise, lampoon and be irreverent. That has always been the case, whether the target was Catholics, Muslims, Jews, the Far Right, politicians in power, celebrities,โ whomever. The paper is an equal opportunity piss-taker. No one's off-limits, especially not extremists. And no one has the right to not be offended. A dozen journalists, much-loved cartoonists and others were executed when Charlie Hebdo's offices were attacked. For you then to suggest a few days later that "education" for the magazine "would have helped somewhat" โ as if staff at the magazine shared in the blame by exercising their freedom of expression โ is crass and repulsive. I'm biting too... No one has the right to be offended? Really? I think people have every right to be offended should something be deemed offensive. Where that line lies is the big question. For example, it seems in your world that nothing is off limits... How about some cartoons depicting 9/11 victims falling from the WTC? Or Holocaust Humour? Or taking the piss out of Iraq War Vets from Britain or America or Australia who returned home as quadraplegics? No chance. Why? Because they are deemed off limits. And rightly so. For the purposes of law and order we all agree that certain things, in the interests of decency, remain off limits. What about the "thought experiment" by Oxford philosopher Brian Klug... Imagine, he writes, if a man had joined the "unity rally" in Paris on 11 January "wearing a badge that said 'Je suis Chรฉrif'" - the first name of one of the Charlie Hebdo gunmen. Suppose, Klug adds, he carried a placard with a cartoon mocking the murdered journalists. "How would the crowd have reacted?... Would they have seen this lone individual as a hero, standing up for liberty and freedom of speech? Or would they have been profoundly offended?" Do you disagree with Klug's conclusion that the man "would have been lucky to get away with his life"? Lastly, but no more importantly, CH does not target Jews.You are wrong there met.CH is most certainly not an equal opportunity piss taker. Maurice Sinet, a very well known French satirical cartoonist, was fired from his position at CH a week after the magazine published a cartoon he drew which was targeted by jews as being anti semitic. He sued for wrongful dismissal and won 40,000E. "Sinรฉt also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defense League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think." I also agree with slammer when he points out the politicians using the horror as a PR exercise is spot on. Netanyahoo's IDF killed 7 journalists in Gaza in 2014; Merkel's germany will lock you up for 5 years if you dare get into some revisionist history regarding WWII... Freedom of expression? Only when we say you can... Couple of quick points. My opinions are reasonably close to Met. The discussion shouldn't be around the right to be offended - it should be about the response to that offense. The examples that misterx gives as being off limits, well, perhaps that is so - where he lives. Like the Brian Klug experiment - probably a reasonable assumption if it was carried out in NY or London or Paris. Think you'd get the same result in Kabul or Islamabad? Are rather simplistic analogy would be a siuation if I had a neighbour, who hates smoking, and knows I smoke, coming into my house and thrashing me because he knows it goes on in there. Just one other thing - there are any number of atrocities being comitted around the world in the name of religiion, bigotry and, lest we forget, business. An argument in defense of secularism is not necessarily support for the genocides comitted in our names.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 11:36:15 GMT 1, I'm biting too... No one has the right to be offended? Really? I think people have every right to be offended should something be deemed offensive. Where that line lies is the big question. For example, it seems in your world that nothing is off limits... How about some cartoons depicting 9/11 victims falling from the WTC? Or Holocaust Humour? Or taking the piss out of Iraq War Vets from Britain or America or Australia who returned home as quadraplegics? No chance. Why? Because they are deemed off limits. And rightly so. For the purposes of law and order we all agree that certain things, in the interests of decency, remain off limits. What about the "thought experiment" by Oxford philosopher Brian Klug... Imagine, he writes, if a man had joined the "unity rally" in Paris on 11 January "wearing a badge that said 'Je suis Chรฉrif'" - the first name of one of the Charlie Hebdo gunmen. Suppose, Klug adds, he carried a placard with a cartoon mocking the murdered journalists. "How would the crowd have reacted?... Would they have seen this lone individual as a hero, standing up for liberty and freedom of speech? Or would they have been profoundly offended?" Do you disagree with Klug's conclusion that the man "would have been lucky to get away with his life"? Lastly, but no more importantly, CH does not target Jews.You are wrong there met.CH is most certainly not an equal opportunity piss taker. Maurice Sinet, a very well known French satirical cartoonist, was fired from his position at CH a week after the magazine published a cartoon he drew which was targeted by jews as being anti semitic. He sued for wrongful dismissal and won 40,000E. "Sinรฉt also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defense League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think." I also agree with slammer when he points out the politicians using the horror as a PR exercise is spot on. Netanyahoo's IDF killed 7 journalists in Gaza in 2014; Merkel's germany will lock you up for 5 years if you dare get into some revisionist history regarding WWII... Freedom of expression? Only when we say you can... Couple of quick points. My opinions are reasonably close to Met. The discussion shouldn't be around the right to be offended - it should be about the response to that offense. The examples that misterx gives as being off limits, well, perhaps that is so - where he lives. Like the Brian Klug experiment - probably a reasonable assumption if it was carried out in NY or London or Paris. Think you'd get the same result in Kabul or Islamabad? Are rather simplistic analogy would be a siuation if I had a neighbour, who hates smoking, and knows I smoke, coming into my house and thrashing me because he knows it goes on in there. Just one other thing - there are any number of atrocities being comitted around the world in the name of religiion, bigotry and, lest we forget, business. An argument in defense of secularism is not necessarily support for the genocides comitted in our names. "An argument in defense of secularism is not necessarily support for the genocides committed in our names".
Death, destruction, famine, disease, suffering and the creation of war, terror and yes, the consciouss and manipulative creation of religious wars, for the sake of shareholder profits is not to be underestimated.
I'm biting too... No one has the right to be offended? Really? I think people have every right to be offended should something be deemed offensive. Where that line lies is the big question. For example, it seems in your world that nothing is off limits... How about some cartoons depicting 9/11 victims falling from the WTC? Or Holocaust Humour? Or taking the piss out of Iraq War Vets from Britain or America or Australia who returned home as quadraplegics? No chance. Why? Because they are deemed off limits. And rightly so. For the purposes of law and order we all agree that certain things, in the interests of decency, remain off limits. What about the "thought experiment" by Oxford philosopher Brian Klug... Imagine, he writes, if a man had joined the "unity rally" in Paris on 11 January "wearing a badge that said 'Je suis Chรฉrif'" - the first name of one of the Charlie Hebdo gunmen. Suppose, Klug adds, he carried a placard with a cartoon mocking the murdered journalists. "How would the crowd have reacted?... Would they have seen this lone individual as a hero, standing up for liberty and freedom of speech? Or would they have been profoundly offended?" Do you disagree with Klug's conclusion that the man "would have been lucky to get away with his life"? Lastly, but no more importantly, CH does not target Jews.You are wrong there met.CH is most certainly not an equal opportunity piss taker. Maurice Sinet, a very well known French satirical cartoonist, was fired from his position at CH a week after the magazine published a cartoon he drew which was targeted by jews as being anti semitic. He sued for wrongful dismissal and won 40,000E. "Sinรฉt also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defense League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think." I also agree with slammer when he points out the politicians using the horror as a PR exercise is spot on. Netanyahoo's IDF killed 7 journalists in Gaza in 2014; Merkel's germany will lock you up for 5 years if you dare get into some revisionist history regarding WWII... Freedom of expression? Only when we say you can... Couple of quick points. My opinions are reasonably close to Met. The discussion shouldn't be around the right to be offended - it should be about the response to that offense. The examples that misterx gives as being off limits, well, perhaps that is so - where he lives. Like the Brian Klug experiment - probably a reasonable assumption if it was carried out in NY or London or Paris. Think you'd get the same result in Kabul or Islamabad? Are rather simplistic analogy would be a siuation if I had a neighbour, who hates smoking, and knows I smoke, coming into my house and thrashing me because he knows it goes on in there. Just one other thing - there are any number of atrocities being comitted around the world in the name of religiion, bigotry and, lest we forget, business. An argument in defense of secularism is not necessarily support for the genocides comitted in our names. "An argument in defense of secularism is not necessarily support for the genocides committed in our names".Death, destruction, famine, disease, suffering and the creation of war, terror and yes, the consciouss and manipulative creation of religious wars, for the sake of shareholder profits is not to be underestimated.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Everybody okay in paris?, by met on Jan 23, 2015 18:43:11 GMT 1, I'm biting too... No one has the right to be offended? Really? I think people have every right to be offended should something be deemed offensive. Where that line lies is the big question. For example, it seems in your world that nothing is off limits... How about some cartoons depicting 9/11 victims falling from the WTC? Or Holocaust Humour? Or taking the piss out of Iraq War Vets from Britain or America or Australia who returned home as quadraplegics? No chance. Why? Because they are deemed off limits. And rightly so. For the purposes of law and order we all agree that certain things, in the interests of decency, remain off limits. What about the "thought experiment" by Oxford philosopher Brian Klug... Imagine, he writes, if a man had joined the "unity rally" in Paris on 11 January "wearing a badge that said 'Je suis Chรฉrif'" - the first name of one of the Charlie Hebdo gunmen. Suppose, Klug adds, he carried a placard with a cartoon mocking the murdered journalists. "How would the crowd have reacted?... Would they have seen this lone individual as a hero, standing up for liberty and freedom of speech? Or would they have been profoundly offended?" Do you disagree with Klug's conclusion that the man "would have been lucky to get away with his life"? Lastly, but no more importantly, CH does not target Jews.You are wrong there met.CH is most certainly not an equal opportunity piss taker. Maurice Sinet, a very well known French satirical cartoonist, was fired from his position at CH a week after the magazine published a cartoon he drew which was targeted by jews as being anti semitic. He sued for wrongful dismissal and won 40,000E. "Sinรฉt also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defense League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think." I also agree with slammer when he points out the politicians using the horror as a PR exercise is spot on. Netanyahoo's IDF killed 7 journalists in Gaza in 2014; Merkel's germany will lock you up for 5 years if you dare get into some revisionist history regarding WWII... Freedom of expression? Only when we say you can... Couple of quick points. My opinions are reasonably close to Met. The discussion shouldn't be around the right to be offended - it should be about the response to that offense. The examples that misterx gives as being off limits, well, perhaps that is so - where he lives. Like the Brian Klug experiment - probably a reasonable assumption if it was carried out in NY or London or Paris. Think you'd get the same result in Kabul or Islamabad? Are rather simplistic analogy would be a siuation if I had a neighbour, who hates smoking, and knows I smoke, coming into my house and thrashing me because he knows it goes on in there. Just one other thing - there are any number of atrocities being comitted around the world in the name of religiion, bigotry and, lest we forget, business. An argument in defense of secularism is not necessarily support for the genocides comitted in our names. Straw man based on a (probably unintentional) misquote.
People have every right to be offended by whatever they wish. They're welcome to spend their entire lives being offended as far as I'm concerned.
I'm biting too... No one has the right to be offended? Really? I think people have every right to be offended should something be deemed offensive. Where that line lies is the big question. For example, it seems in your world that nothing is off limits... How about some cartoons depicting 9/11 victims falling from the WTC? Or Holocaust Humour? Or taking the piss out of Iraq War Vets from Britain or America or Australia who returned home as quadraplegics? No chance. Why? Because they are deemed off limits. And rightly so. For the purposes of law and order we all agree that certain things, in the interests of decency, remain off limits. What about the "thought experiment" by Oxford philosopher Brian Klug... Imagine, he writes, if a man had joined the "unity rally" in Paris on 11 January "wearing a badge that said 'Je suis Chรฉrif'" - the first name of one of the Charlie Hebdo gunmen. Suppose, Klug adds, he carried a placard with a cartoon mocking the murdered journalists. "How would the crowd have reacted?... Would they have seen this lone individual as a hero, standing up for liberty and freedom of speech? Or would they have been profoundly offended?" Do you disagree with Klug's conclusion that the man "would have been lucky to get away with his life"? Lastly, but no more importantly, CH does not target Jews.You are wrong there met.CH is most certainly not an equal opportunity piss taker. Maurice Sinet, a very well known French satirical cartoonist, was fired from his position at CH a week after the magazine published a cartoon he drew which was targeted by jews as being anti semitic. He sued for wrongful dismissal and won 40,000E. "Sinรฉt also reported a death threat posted on a site run by the Jewish Defense League. The text said "20 centimeters of stainless steel in the gut, that should teach the bastard to stop and think." I also agree with slammer when he points out the politicians using the horror as a PR exercise is spot on. Netanyahoo's IDF killed 7 journalists in Gaza in 2014; Merkel's germany will lock you up for 5 years if you dare get into some revisionist history regarding WWII... Freedom of expression? Only when we say you can... Couple of quick points. My opinions are reasonably close to Met. The discussion shouldn't be around the right to be offended - it should be about the response to that offense. The examples that misterx gives as being off limits, well, perhaps that is so - where he lives. Like the Brian Klug experiment - probably a reasonable assumption if it was carried out in NY or London or Paris. Think you'd get the same result in Kabul or Islamabad? Are rather simplistic analogy would be a siuation if I had a neighbour, who hates smoking, and knows I smoke, coming into my house and thrashing me because he knows it goes on in there. Just one other thing - there are any number of atrocities being comitted around the world in the name of religiion, bigotry and, lest we forget, business. An argument in defense of secularism is not necessarily support for the genocides comitted in our names. Straw man based on a (probably unintentional) misquote. People have every right to be offended by whatever they wish. They're welcome to spend their entire lives being offended as far as I'm concerned.
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SW20
New Member
Posts โข 172
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December 2014
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Everybody okay in paris?, by SW20 on Jan 24, 2015 10:59:46 GMT 1,
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The article with Crumb is a very good read.
The article with Crumb is a very good read.
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trax51
New Member
Posts โข 388
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July 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by trax51 on Jan 25, 2015 11:02:29 GMT 1, The article with Crumb is a very good read.
Yes, it is. Thank you for pointing this out.
If only people on here would have read it before writing stupid comments about 9/11, Nigeria...
You guys are talking about stuff you have no idea, so please read Mr Crumb's interview carefully and put your comments afterwards. And raise your intellectuel level. If you don't understand the context & the place of satire in french society, I think you should refrain from commenting on this tragedy.
Many of the comments / comparison are just totally irrelevant and insulting.
I can tell you one thing, on that Sunday demo in Paris, 99% of the millions of people around me were not there because they were Charlie Hebdo's fan, or Jews, or Muslims, or policeman or whatsoever... They were here because they are FRENCH and they want to defend their freedom, which was bruttaly attacked by a bunch of brainless extremist idiots with Kalachnikovs
And believe me, we will defend that Freedom.
TraX Charlie Hedbo subscriber's since 2003, French since 1979 Strong defender of the right to be an idiot, to be irrespecutful, to be insulting & insulted
PS: I would recommend anybody who want to link the words "Complot theory" , "lie" or "inside job" with the above tragedy to come with strong detailed evidence supporting their claims as they all are just totally irrelevant bullshit, creating even more stupid brainless extremists
LOVE IS STRONGER THAN HATE, 2011
MICHAEL JACKSON FINALLY WHITE
"I'll rather die standing than on my knees" RIP Charb
[/a]
The article with Crumb is a very good read.
Yes, it is. Thank you for pointing this out. If only people on here would have read it before writing stupid comments about 9/11, Nigeria... You guys are talking about stuff you have no idea, so please read Mr Crumb's interview carefully and put your comments afterwards. And raise your intellectuel level. If you don't understand the context & the place of satire in french society, I think you should refrain from commenting on this tragedy. Many of the comments / comparison are just totally irrelevant and insulting. I can tell you one thing, on that Sunday demo in Paris, 99% of the millions of people around me were not there because they were Charlie Hebdo's fan, or Jews, or Muslims, or policeman or whatsoever... They were here because they are FRENCH and they want to defend their freedom, which was bruttaly attacked by a bunch of brainless extremist idiots with Kalachnikovs And believe me, we will defend that Freedom. TraX Charlie Hedbo subscriber's since 2003, French since 1979 Strong defender of the right to be an idiot, to be irrespecutful, to be insulting & insulted PS: I would recommend anybody who want to link the words "Complot theory" , "lie" or "inside job" with the above tragedy to come with strong detailed evidence supporting their claims as they all are just totally irrelevant bullshit, creating even more stupid brainless extremists LOVE IS STRONGER THAN HATE, 2011 MICHAEL JACKSON FINALLY WHITE "I'll rather die standing than on my knees" RIP Charb [/a]
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Paname
New Member
Posts โข 509
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October 2013
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Paname on Jan 25, 2015 11:40:01 GMT 1, J'ai enfin hier trouver mon exemplaire de Charlie Hebdo, je vais l'encadrer.
J'ai enfin hier trouver mon exemplaire de Charlie Hebdo, je vais l'encadrer.
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trax51
New Member
Posts โข 388
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July 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by trax51 on Jan 25, 2015 12:57:07 GMT 1, J'ai enfin hier trouver mon exemplaire de Charlie Hebdo, je vais l'encadrer. Bien jouรฉ
And that sum it up.
These 3 idiots clearly and proudly announced their motive for the killings: "we have revenged the prophet Mohamet, we have killed Charlie Hebdo"
Facts: Before there actions: Charlie Hebdo was a tiny french weekly newspaper with an edition of just 40'000 copies, almost unknown outside France After their actions: Charlie Hebdo is printed at more 7 mio copies, distributed worldwide in more than 40 countries, and the cartoon of Mohamet has been shown and reproduced 100 millions of time on TV, internet, etc...
So, good on you guys, as a result of your actions, in one day you did more harm and insults to your beloved prophet than Charlie's crew would have capable in their entire lifetime...!
I call it a "Fail". And killing 12 people to achieve it, make it even more pointless, obviously.
Someone once said :
" To fight religious extremism, we should not close churches or Mosques, but we should open more psychiatric hospitals"
I think he was right.
J'ai enfin hier trouver mon exemplaire de Charlie Hebdo, je vais l'encadrer. Bien jouรฉ And that sum it up. These 3 idiots clearly and proudly announced their motive for the killings: "we have revenged the prophet Mohamet, we have killed Charlie Hebdo" Facts: Before there actions: Charlie Hebdo was a tiny french weekly newspaper with an edition of just 40'000 copies, almost unknown outside France After their actions: Charlie Hebdo is printed at more 7 mio copies, distributed worldwide in more than 40 countries, and the cartoon of Mohamet has been shown and reproduced 100 millions of time on TV, internet, etc... So, good on you guys, as a result of your actions, in one day you did more harm and insults to your beloved prophet than Charlie's crew would have capable in their entire lifetime...! I call it a "Fail". And killing 12 people to achieve it, make it even more pointless, obviously. Someone once said : " To fight religious extremism, we should not close churches or Mosques, but we should open more psychiatric hospitals" I think he was right.
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daveart
New Member
Posts โข 940
Likes โข 879
February 2008
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Everybody okay in paris?, by daveart on Jan 25, 2015 17:21:08 GMT 1, Banksy - christ with shopping bags
Book of Mormon - which i saw and felt embarrassed about. it is practically a hate crime in my opinion and it upset me. note: i am not Mormon
Dolk - priest versions and angel versions
etc, etc, etc
At one time on this forum there was specifically a thread for people looking for art that was anti religion or something along those lines.
People are trained to think that they must respond violently to seeing a picture of ... insert whatever it is ..
where i am going with this is there was a time not so long ago that Christian moms swattted their kids for using the word God "in vain" or out of Church .. the art mentioned above would be very insulting to a lot of people.... how they respond is the key. and yes, as mentioned with book of mormon.. i do think we can ask people not to go out of their way to be insulting and vulgar. is that censorship? not sure. never hurts to ask? that said. how you respond to anything in life is what defines you.
Banksy - christ with shopping bags Book of Mormon - which i saw and felt embarrassed about. it is practically a hate crime in my opinion and it upset me. note: i am not Mormon Dolk - priest versions and angel versions etc, etc, etc At one time on this forum there was specifically a thread for people looking for art that was anti religion or something along those lines. People are trained to think that they must respond violently to seeing a picture of ... insert whatever it is .. where i am going with this is there was a time not so long ago that Christian moms swattted their kids for using the word God "in vain" or out of Church .. the art mentioned above would be very insulting to a lot of people.... how they respond is the key. and yes, as mentioned with book of mormon.. i do think we can ask people not to go out of their way to be insulting and vulgar. is that censorship? not sure. never hurts to ask? that said. how you respond to anything in life is what defines you.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Everybody okay in paris?, by met on Mar 9, 2015 9:45:09 GMT 1, This is a podcast (five or six weeks old) by Sam Harris on the Charlie Hebdo attacks.
It's a good listen with interesting and challenging ideas:
This is a podcast (five or six weeks old) by Sam Harris on the Charlie Hebdo attacks.
It's a good listen with interesting and challenging ideas:
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thomasmer
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,107
Likes โข 565
July 2014
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Everybody okay in paris?, by thomasmer on Mar 9, 2015 14:12:08 GMT 1, This is a podcast (five or six weeks old) by Sam Harris on the Charlie Hebdo attacks. It's a good listen with interesting and challenging ideas: He happens to forget the main reason that they're doing this is because we're bombing the living fuck out of the middle east, and Frances long term abuses in north Africa.
A very smug light hearted jibe filled gobshittery.
This is a podcast (five or six weeks old) by Sam Harris on the Charlie Hebdo attacks. It's a good listen with interesting and challenging ideas: He happens to forget the main reason that they're doing this is because we're bombing the living fuck out of the middle east, and Frances long term abuses in north Africa. A very smug light hearted jibe filled gobshittery.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 14:39:51 GMT 1, Saudi blogger jailed and lashed for blogging, that was in the news recently.
So much for free speech in Saudi.
The west and europe UK etc sells arms to saudi and buys their oรฏl.
Then the western leaders march together in the name of free speech.
Bunch of liars and hypocrits and double dealers who are either incompetent or sociopaths.
Saudi blogger jailed and lashed for blogging, that was in the news recently.
So much for free speech in Saudi.
The west and europe UK etc sells arms to saudi and buys their oรฏl.
Then the western leaders march together in the name of free speech.
Bunch of liars and hypocrits and double dealers who are either incompetent or sociopaths.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 15:23:52 GMT 1, Free speech is great upto the point where you are being offensive (to provoke a reaction or to hurt).
Free speech is great upto the point where you are being offensive (to provoke a reaction or to hurt).
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Liverpool ste123 on Apr 9, 2015 18:22:26 GMT 1, Hey Looter,
Hope you're well! Was a little naรฏve of me to get caught up in the whole scene at the time, admittedly.
BUT if you go on to read further posts, where I had the back up of several people including a moderator then you will read I do actually say I was wrong to put that. I could've edited my posts - I didn't.
Don't try and start some kind of witch hunt now or stir emotions from months back. We've all moved on from it...
I'm not a robot, I'm human. I, like most people have made mistakes, you going to throw mud or tar someone with a brush forevermore? If so, then you'll have a similar mind-set to what I was feeling at the time, to form a negative opinion without knowing the full background/motives to something.
I don't know you personally but if you have any need to try to bait a reaction from me then I would suggest getting out more and enjoying the sun with a nice vodka slush in your hand PM me if you'd like to discuss further as pulling a post up from some time back to further incite resentment towards the newly formed admin IS trolling. If you've nothing positive to contribute to the forum then maybe you should question your approach to it in the future?
I refuse to edit your post, nor my historical ones for that matter.
Here's to moving forward in a positive motion, where we can talk about the common interests we do share - the art!
Hey Looter, Hope you're well! Was a little naรฏve of me to get caught up in the whole scene at the time, admittedly. BUT if you go on to read further posts, where I had the back up of several people including a moderator then you will read I do actually say I was wrong to put that. I could've edited my posts - I didn't. Don't try and start some kind of witch hunt now or stir emotions from months back. We've all moved on from it... I'm not a robot, I'm human. I, like most people have made mistakes, you going to throw mud or tar someone with a brush forevermore? If so, then you'll have a similar mind-set to what I was feeling at the time, to form a negative opinion without knowing the full background/motives to something. I don't know you personally but if you have any need to try to bait a reaction from me then I would suggest getting out more and enjoying the sun with a nice vodka slush in your hand PM me if you'd like to discuss further as pulling a post up from some time back to further incite resentment towards the newly formed admin IS trolling. If you've nothing positive to contribute to the forum then maybe you should question your approach to it in the future? I refuse to edit your post, nor my historical ones for that matter. Here's to moving forward in a positive motion, where we can talk about the common interests we do share - the art!
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,007
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September 2013
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Everybody okay in paris?, by Black Apple Art on Apr 30, 2015 18:17:08 GMT 1, Charlie Hebdo's Luz quits Muhammad cartoons
If it was really just him being bored of doing it I don't think he would have held a press conference to announce it. Seems a bit like giving in but being here I have no idea of the pressure and or threats he has been dealing with.
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32520563
Charlie Hebdo's Luz quits Muhammad cartoons If it was really just him being bored of doing it I don't think he would have held a press conference to announce it. Seems a bit like giving in but being here I have no idea of the pressure and or threats he has been dealing with. www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32520563
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andyroo0312
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,174
Likes โข 1,675
July 2011
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Everybody okay in paris?, by andyroo0312 on May 1, 2015 8:20:23 GMT 1, Does anyone know what Muhammad looks like? Was he short and fat or tall and athletically built was he black or white or abit of both did he speak with a lisp and and have a dodgy hip we just don't know but thanks to Banksy i know what Muhammad's mate Jesus looks like.
Does anyone know what Muhammad looks like? Was he short and fat or tall and athletically built was he black or white or abit of both did he speak with a lisp and and have a dodgy hip we just don't know but thanks to Banksy i know what Muhammad's mate Jesus looks like.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
Likes โข 6,320
June 2009
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Everybody okay in paris?, by met on Sept 22, 2015 1:14:54 GMT 1, Charlie Hebdo's Luz quits Muhammad cartoons If it was really just him being bored of doing it I don't think he would have held a press conference to announce it. Seems a bit like giving in but being here I have no idea of the pressure and or threats he has been dealing with. www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32520563 Just to clarify one point: There was no press conference held. The comment by Luz was made during an in-depth interview with a French magazine while discussing the release of his book, Catharsis, which he worked on following the execution in January of, among other people, his mentor (Cabu) and his best friend (Charb).
Charlie Hebdo's Luz quits Muhammad cartoons If it was really just him being bored of doing it I don't think he would have held a press conference to announce it. Seems a bit like giving in but being here I have no idea of the pressure and or threats he has been dealing with. www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32520563Just to clarify one point: There was no press conference held. The comment by Luz was made during an in-depth interview with a French magazine while discussing the release of his book, Catharsis, which he worked on following the execution in January of, among other people, his mentor (Cabu) and his best friend (Charb).
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