Dan Kitchener
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,794
Likes • 2,061
April 2008
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East London - Curtain Road, by Dan Kitchener on Apr 7, 2015 20:01:11 GMT 1, Curtain Road - East London quicky wall today, really really not happy with this, just feel it doesn't do what i wanted it to, but hey can't win them all! Painted this for Slate Coffee, who were so generous supplying endless coffee and by far the best bacon rolls in London, i am not kidding, amazing! So thanks to Zoey for the wall and the hospitality...sorry i buggered it up a bit
Curtain Road - East London quicky wall today, really really not happy with this, just feel it doesn't do what i wanted it to, but hey can't win them all! Painted this for Slate Coffee, who were so generous supplying endless coffee and by far the best bacon rolls in London, i am not kidding, amazing! So thanks to Zoey for the wall and the hospitality...sorry i buggered it up a bit
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loother
New Member
Posts • 467
Likes • 590
October 2014
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East London - Curtain Road, by loother on Apr 8, 2015 0:32:14 GMT 1, You're keeping yourself busy: the piece you did in Tufnell Park the other day has brightened up my bus route home from the office, so thanks for that. Keep heading north – one day street art will reach East Finchley...
You're keeping yourself busy: the piece you did in Tufnell Park the other day has brightened up my bus route home from the office, so thanks for that. Keep heading north – one day street art will reach East Finchley...
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met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,675
Likes • 6,276
June 2009
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East London - Curtain Road, by met on Apr 8, 2015 1:22:02 GMT 1, Curtain Road - East London quicky wall today, really really not happy with this, just feel it doesn't do what i wanted it to, but hey can't win them all! Painted this for Slate Coffee, who were so generous supplying endless coffee and by far the best bacon rolls in London, i am not kidding, amazing! So thanks to Zoey for the wall and the hospitality...sorry i buggered it up a bit [...] Your disappointment with this particular work is clear. No doubt the public nature of an outdoor mural and its high visibility makes the situation even worse if you're really not happy with it.
What's stopping you from starting again with this one?
Is Slate Coffee (presumably the wall owner) preventing you from simply going over and repainting the wall?
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As a separate comment, it pleases me very much to see you've stopped adding your website address to your murals.
Some people are pretty relaxed about the presence of Facebook, Twitter or personal website details on street pieces. I myself have always found this really grating — and more of a turnoff actually than work which may be poorly executed, dull or derivative.
Curtain Road - East London quicky wall today, really really not happy with this, just feel it doesn't do what i wanted it to, but hey can't win them all! Painted this for Slate Coffee, who were so generous supplying endless coffee and by far the best bacon rolls in London, i am not kidding, amazing! So thanks to Zoey for the wall and the hospitality...sorry i buggered it up a bit [...] Your disappointment with this particular work is clear. No doubt the public nature of an outdoor mural and its high visibility makes the situation even worse if you're really not happy with it. What's stopping you from starting again with this one? Is Slate Coffee (presumably the wall owner) preventing you from simply going over and repainting the wall? ------------ As a separate comment, it pleases me very much to see you've stopped adding your website address to your murals. Some people are pretty relaxed about the presence of Facebook, Twitter or personal website details on street pieces. I myself have always found this really grating — and more of a turnoff actually than work which may be poorly executed, dull or derivative.
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Dan Kitchener
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,794
Likes • 2,061
April 2008
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East London - Curtain Road, by Dan Kitchener on Apr 8, 2015 4:13:44 GMT 1, Thanks for the comments Met. As you say there's nothing stopping me repainting this, it certainly is an option. But in reality I don't have the time or resources to keep redoing walls in London, which require a large amount of time, money and my energy to create. The piece for me lacks something that in this instance I wasn't achieving when painting, and this could be down to numerous things, but i pushed myself to at least create something passable in my opinion, so for that reason I am ok with the piece. I am critical and quite tough on myself creatively, as it is what i do, it's not a sideline or a hobby after work, this is 100% my life and in order for me to progress and develop as an artist, i need to critically look at the work i create and move onwards. If the piece had been a total disaster I would have painted it black and either started again the next day or just chalked this one up to experience....creating art can be a real struggle sometimes.....but that's all part of it....
with regards to the web address, that's a point I wasn't aware people picked up upon. Personally i don't feel it's a wrong to allow viewers of my work who don't know who i am or what i do to have a reference point to investigate other work that i create, i have a huge portfolio of work over the years, so it's good for people to perhaps see what else i have painted. Are you saying it takes something away from the 'street' nature of the work and puts it more in the realm of commercial work?
Thanks for the comments Met. As you say there's nothing stopping me repainting this, it certainly is an option. But in reality I don't have the time or resources to keep redoing walls in London, which require a large amount of time, money and my energy to create. The piece for me lacks something that in this instance I wasn't achieving when painting, and this could be down to numerous things, but i pushed myself to at least create something passable in my opinion, so for that reason I am ok with the piece. I am critical and quite tough on myself creatively, as it is what i do, it's not a sideline or a hobby after work, this is 100% my life and in order for me to progress and develop as an artist, i need to critically look at the work i create and move onwards. If the piece had been a total disaster I would have painted it black and either started again the next day or just chalked this one up to experience....creating art can be a real struggle sometimes.....but that's all part of it....
with regards to the web address, that's a point I wasn't aware people picked up upon. Personally i don't feel it's a wrong to allow viewers of my work who don't know who i am or what i do to have a reference point to investigate other work that i create, i have a huge portfolio of work over the years, so it's good for people to perhaps see what else i have painted. Are you saying it takes something away from the 'street' nature of the work and puts it more in the realm of commercial work?
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met
Junior Member
Posts • 2,675
Likes • 6,276
June 2009
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East London - Curtain Road, by met on Apr 8, 2015 6:18:11 GMT 1, Thanks for the comments Met. As you say there's nothing stopping me repainting this, it certainly is an option. But in reality I don't have the time or resources to keep redoing walls in London, which require a large amount of time, money and my energy to create. The piece for me lacks something that in this instance I wasn't achieving when painting, and this could be down to numerous things, but i pushed myself to at least create something passable in my opinion, so for that reason I am ok with the piece. I am critical and quite tough on myself creatively, as it is what i do, it's not a sideline or a hobby after work, this is 100% my life and in order for me to progress and develop as an artist, i need to critically look at the work i create and move onwards. If the piece had been a total disaster I would have painted it black and either started again the next day or just chalked this one up to experience....creating art can be a real struggle sometimes.....but that's all part of it.... with regards to the web address, that's a point I wasn't aware people picked up upon. Personally i don't feel it's a wrong to allow viewers of my work who don't know who i am or what i do to have a reference point to investigate other work that i create, i have a huge portfolio of work over the years, so it's good for people to perhaps see what else i have painted. Are you saying it takes something away from the 'street' nature of the work and puts it more in the realm of commercial work? Yes, that is how I would describe it, though I'd go further still.
The inclusion of social media or website addresses changes the tone of street work. For me, that change is critical — pushing the piece out of the purely creative arena (art or self-expression for the sake of it) and into the realm of commercial work and advertising. In this respect, it doesn't just take away from the street nature of the work, something is actually taken away from the work itself.
And by "advertising", I don't mean for a product, but for the relevant artist's services. It's as if the artist is saying, "I'm a gun for hire. Hey you brands and corporations, please get in touch! I'd be happy to do commissions inside your coffee shop, clothing store, etc." I do appreciate the Yuppie Nuremberg defence type of arguments, but it all feels desperate and undignified, like someone wearing a sandwich board.
Separately, the easy accessibility — where nobody has to make any real effort to seek out and discover who the artist is (since their contact details are presented to all passersby on a plate) — conflicts with the graffiti and street art subcultures, at least as far as I view and identify with them. A certain mystique and romantic allure are also definitely lost.
While some people may try to describe it as comparable, adding social media and website addresses to street work is very different to a tagger or writer getting up all over town. The intended audience, the spirit of the act, and the desired effect or end result are each distinct.
All this is a matter of degree and of course down to the individual viewer's perception. In my own mind, the presence of artist contact details in a street piece leads to a line being crossed, dramatically altering the overall impression I get when viewing the work.
Thanks for the comments Met. As you say there's nothing stopping me repainting this, it certainly is an option. But in reality I don't have the time or resources to keep redoing walls in London, which require a large amount of time, money and my energy to create. The piece for me lacks something that in this instance I wasn't achieving when painting, and this could be down to numerous things, but i pushed myself to at least create something passable in my opinion, so for that reason I am ok with the piece. I am critical and quite tough on myself creatively, as it is what i do, it's not a sideline or a hobby after work, this is 100% my life and in order for me to progress and develop as an artist, i need to critically look at the work i create and move onwards. If the piece had been a total disaster I would have painted it black and either started again the next day or just chalked this one up to experience....creating art can be a real struggle sometimes.....but that's all part of it.... with regards to the web address, that's a point I wasn't aware people picked up upon. Personally i don't feel it's a wrong to allow viewers of my work who don't know who i am or what i do to have a reference point to investigate other work that i create, i have a huge portfolio of work over the years, so it's good for people to perhaps see what else i have painted. Are you saying it takes something away from the 'street' nature of the work and puts it more in the realm of commercial work?Yes, that is how I would describe it, though I'd go further still. The inclusion of social media or website addresses changes the tone of street work. For me, that change is critical — pushing the piece out of the purely creative arena (art or self-expression for the sake of it) and into the realm of commercial work and advertising. In this respect, it doesn't just take away from the street nature of the work, something is actually taken away from the work itself. And by "advertising", I don't mean for a product, but for the relevant artist's services. It's as if the artist is saying, "I'm a gun for hire. Hey you brands and corporations, please get in touch! I'd be happy to do commissions inside your coffee shop, clothing store, etc." I do appreciate the Yuppie Nuremberg defence type of arguments, but it all feels desperate and undignified, like someone wearing a sandwich board. Separately, the easy accessibility — where nobody has to make any real effort to seek out and discover who the artist is (since their contact details are presented to all passersby on a plate) — conflicts with the graffiti and street art subcultures, at least as far as I view and identify with them. A certain mystique and romantic allure are also definitely lost. While some people may try to describe it as comparable, adding social media and website addresses to street work is very different to a tagger or writer getting up all over town. The intended audience, the spirit of the act, and the desired effect or end result are each distinct. All this is a matter of degree and of course down to the individual viewer's perception. In my own mind, the presence of artist contact details in a street piece leads to a line being crossed, dramatically altering the overall impression I get when viewing the work.
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Dan Kitchener
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,794
Likes • 2,061
April 2008
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East London - Curtain Road, by Dan Kitchener on Apr 8, 2015 7:23:10 GMT 1, I actually disagree with that although of course it's your very valid opinion. I am an artist, i don't label myself as one particular fashionable type of artist, 'street artist' or 'graffiti artist' or 'fine artist' etc, this is restrictive and feels a little too much like jumping on a band wagon. Art for me is all i have done, all my life and my one passion, it's something i will always do, so for me creating artworks on the street is one aspect of my creativity. To say something doesn't fit the rules of a sub culture or movement of street art is strange as my art and the way i work doesn't adhere to any rules self imposed or otherwise... I need to make a living and earn money in order to continue what i do, that';s the basic facts of life. I feel it's a slightly romantic notion that the street art should be pure and not have any form of contact details etc, well in reality i need to earn money in order for me to create my work, and adding a credit as such to the work doesn't detract from my point of view from the work at all, that is a small and subtle credit, not huge banner! The works on the streets all have a person behind them, funding the materials, the time, and this gets so often overlooked, it's all well and good creating a free, ever changing gallery for city workers on their lunch breaks, but by having no web link or way for anyway to access your work and perhaps buy a print or painting, it's very easy t o just dismiss the art and becomes a free gallery at the artist great expense. All my work is created with pure passion for creating art, and with this in mind i love sharing my work with people and hopefully positively influence their day, but so saying i am a realist an live in the real world and art materials are very expensive!
I actually disagree with that although of course it's your very valid opinion. I am an artist, i don't label myself as one particular fashionable type of artist, 'street artist' or 'graffiti artist' or 'fine artist' etc, this is restrictive and feels a little too much like jumping on a band wagon. Art for me is all i have done, all my life and my one passion, it's something i will always do, so for me creating artworks on the street is one aspect of my creativity. To say something doesn't fit the rules of a sub culture or movement of street art is strange as my art and the way i work doesn't adhere to any rules self imposed or otherwise... I need to make a living and earn money in order to continue what i do, that';s the basic facts of life. I feel it's a slightly romantic notion that the street art should be pure and not have any form of contact details etc, well in reality i need to earn money in order for me to create my work, and adding a credit as such to the work doesn't detract from my point of view from the work at all, that is a small and subtle credit, not huge banner! The works on the streets all have a person behind them, funding the materials, the time, and this gets so often overlooked, it's all well and good creating a free, ever changing gallery for city workers on their lunch breaks, but by having no web link or way for anyway to access your work and perhaps buy a print or painting, it's very easy t o just dismiss the art and becomes a free gallery at the artist great expense. All my work is created with pure passion for creating art, and with this in mind i love sharing my work with people and hopefully positively influence their day, but so saying i am a realist an live in the real world and art materials are very expensive!
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Dan Kitchener
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,794
Likes • 2,061
April 2008
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East London - Curtain Road, by Dan Kitchener on Apr 8, 2015 7:24:28 GMT 1, It's also actually very interesting to have a sensible debate about modern street art and art culture, so thanks for taking the time to discuss with me!
It's also actually very interesting to have a sensible debate about modern street art and art culture, so thanks for taking the time to discuss with me!
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Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
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East London - Curtain Road, by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 8:43:10 GMT 1, I actually disagree with that although of course it's your very valid opinion. I am an artist, i don't label myself as one particular fashionable type of artist, 'street artist' or 'graffiti artist' or 'fine artist' etc, this is restrictive and feels a little too much like jumping on a band wagon. Art for me is all i have done, all my life and my one passion, it's something i will always do, so for me creating artworks on the street is one aspect of my creativity. To say something doesn't fit the rules of a sub culture or movement of street art is strange as my art and the way i work doesn't adhere to any rules self imposed or otherwise... I need to make a living and earn money in order to continue what i do, that';s the basic facts of life. I feel it's a slightly romantic notion that the street art should be pure and not have any form of contact details etc, well in reality i need to earn money in order for me to create my work, and adding a credit as such to the work doesn't detract from my point of view from the work at all, that is a small and subtle credit, not huge banner! The works on the streets all have a person behind them, funding the materials, the time, and this gets so often overlooked, it's all well and good creating a free, ever changing gallery for city workers on their lunch breaks, but by having no web link or way for anyway to access your work and perhaps buy a print or painting, it's very easy t o just dismiss the art and becomes a free gallery at the artist great expense. All my work is created with pure passion for creating art, and with this in mind i love sharing my work with people and hopefully positively influence their day, but so saying i am a realist an live in the real world and art materials are very expensive! He's right, it seriously detracts from the work and places it in the realm of corporate advertising. You don't need a www. before your name. Just sign it. There are far more rules, signifiers and pre conceived notions of what www. name.com stands for than just your name. When I see it, that's all I see, the work loses a great deal of its meaning and power with the addition of a web address.
I actually disagree with that although of course it's your very valid opinion. I am an artist, i don't label myself as one particular fashionable type of artist, 'street artist' or 'graffiti artist' or 'fine artist' etc, this is restrictive and feels a little too much like jumping on a band wagon. Art for me is all i have done, all my life and my one passion, it's something i will always do, so for me creating artworks on the street is one aspect of my creativity. To say something doesn't fit the rules of a sub culture or movement of street art is strange as my art and the way i work doesn't adhere to any rules self imposed or otherwise... I need to make a living and earn money in order to continue what i do, that';s the basic facts of life. I feel it's a slightly romantic notion that the street art should be pure and not have any form of contact details etc, well in reality i need to earn money in order for me to create my work, and adding a credit as such to the work doesn't detract from my point of view from the work at all, that is a small and subtle credit, not huge banner! The works on the streets all have a person behind them, funding the materials, the time, and this gets so often overlooked, it's all well and good creating a free, ever changing gallery for city workers on their lunch breaks, but by having no web link or way for anyway to access your work and perhaps buy a print or painting, it's very easy t o just dismiss the art and becomes a free gallery at the artist great expense. All my work is created with pure passion for creating art, and with this in mind i love sharing my work with people and hopefully positively influence their day, but so saying i am a realist an live in the real world and art materials are very expensive! He's right, it seriously detracts from the work and places it in the realm of corporate advertising. You don't need a www. before your name. Just sign it. There are far more rules, signifiers and pre conceived notions of what www. name.com stands for than just your name. When I see it, that's all I see, the work loses a great deal of its meaning and power with the addition of a web address.
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Momo
Junior Member
Posts • 1,032
Likes • 599
March 2014
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East London - Curtain Road, by Momo on Apr 8, 2015 8:55:45 GMT 1, Nice sensible and adult discussion/conversation guys..
Nice sensible and adult discussion/conversation guys..
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Dan Kitchener
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,794
Likes • 2,061
April 2008
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East London - Curtain Road, by Dan Kitchener on Apr 8, 2015 13:15:25 GMT 1, Thanks for the responses, well I hadn't thought of it as you guys have, definitely something I'll take on board when I paint next!
thanks
Thanks for the responses, well I hadn't thought of it as you guys have, definitely something I'll take on board when I paint next!
thanks
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