Deleted
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January 1970
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 14:36:32 GMT 1, Auction sales prices.
Who knows how real these high auction prices are in reality.
Best investment these days seems to be some dumb s**t that gets in the news and starts to sell at auctions.
The dumber s**t the better is what sells.
Auction sales prices.
Who knows how real these high auction prices are in reality.
Best investment these days seems to be some dumb s**t that gets in the news and starts to sell at auctions.
The dumber s**t the better is what sells.
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coller
Junior Member
Posts • 2,380
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April 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by coller on Aug 15, 2015 16:18:27 GMT 1, Stinking solely within the stated question. Koons Just my personal opinion. I dont collect it, and dont buy for investment but I think its the better investment. Second guess Kaws Last Banksy Reasoning, the blue chip choice. In my personal opinion an artists long term value is connected to institutional and academic support. Koons, a retrospective in his lifetime at one of the most prestigious institutions in the world. Doesn't show a sign of slowing down. Kaws, solid museum support, IMPO more of a momentous contribution to culture. I see Kaws continuing to penetrate institutions, explode within the high art market. Banksy, is hype. Banksy is the artist whose future is more volatile. While all three have a great potential, Banksy is the most unsure. Hi (their) work is captivating at the moment, driving a culture of the moment, and all my non art friends and clients know banksy, but they didnt know banksy till the big hype moments, the big $$$. They know banksy because they know the art is worth money, but I dont see the same institutional and academic interest. I dont see the transition into high art like kaws. Kaws is represented by Perrotin and others, who are placing the work in the collections of real collectors, not hedge fund guys with massive money to spend. I could be wrong, feel free to retort, its just my opinion within the confines of the question. However, to pick up the what to spend $8K on if one is allowed to consider other art, other investments. All 3 of these fall behind other options that are much more secure and sure footing. I don't entirely disagree. It does seem like Kaws and Koons are being priced near their limit though, so are you only implying that Banksy's bubble will burst? I don't see Koons/Kaws prices going much higher unless it's a ridiculous bubble. They each have so much material/so many editions out there. And like mad dog said, who is going to buy a Koons plate for $8k when they can buy a Picasso edition for the same price?
I also am a bit on the fence with how many of Koons' works would capture that aura; when I think of Koons, I think of balloon dogs and flower dogs. So many of his other works I can see falling by the wayside and losing a ton of value, despite being backed by the big museums. Especially the 'Made in Heaven' series; you really think people will hang gigantic pictures of full penetration once he's gone? Even I don't think we're that far along as a society.
The institutional backing is a big thing, I agree. I'd love Banksy to get his time in the fine art spotlight, but that may require more transparency than he wants.
Stinking solely within the stated question. Koons Just my personal opinion. I dont collect it, and dont buy for investment but I think its the better investment. Second guess Kaws Last Banksy Reasoning, the blue chip choice. In my personal opinion an artists long term value is connected to institutional and academic support. Koons, a retrospective in his lifetime at one of the most prestigious institutions in the world. Doesn't show a sign of slowing down. Kaws, solid museum support, IMPO more of a momentous contribution to culture. I see Kaws continuing to penetrate institutions, explode within the high art market. Banksy, is hype. Banksy is the artist whose future is more volatile. While all three have a great potential, Banksy is the most unsure. Hi (their) work is captivating at the moment, driving a culture of the moment, and all my non art friends and clients know banksy, but they didnt know banksy till the big hype moments, the big $$$. They know banksy because they know the art is worth money, but I dont see the same institutional and academic interest. I dont see the transition into high art like kaws. Kaws is represented by Perrotin and others, who are placing the work in the collections of real collectors, not hedge fund guys with massive money to spend. I could be wrong, feel free to retort, its just my opinion within the confines of the question. However, to pick up the what to spend $8K on if one is allowed to consider other art, other investments. All 3 of these fall behind other options that are much more secure and sure footing. I don't entirely disagree. It does seem like Kaws and Koons are being priced near their limit though, so are you only implying that Banksy's bubble will burst? I don't see Koons/Kaws prices going much higher unless it's a ridiculous bubble. They each have so much material/so many editions out there. And like mad dog said, who is going to buy a Koons plate for $8k when they can buy a Picasso edition for the same price? I also am a bit on the fence with how many of Koons' works would capture that aura; when I think of Koons, I think of balloon dogs and flower dogs. So many of his other works I can see falling by the wayside and losing a ton of value, despite being backed by the big museums. Especially the 'Made in Heaven' series; you really think people will hang gigantic pictures of full penetration once he's gone? Even I don't think we're that far along as a society. The institutional backing is a big thing, I agree. I'd love Banksy to get his time in the fine art spotlight, but that may require more transparency than he wants.
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msobel3
New Member
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November 2014
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by msobel3 on Aug 15, 2015 16:48:12 GMT 1, The only thing I would say is that I think there is still room for Kaws to grow as an artist. Koons has basically reached his limit. How much more than $50 million can any of his works sell for?? Kaws has made the jump from street artist to artist. So while I don't think Kaws has that much room to increase prices on his prints, I see no limit to how high his prices can go on originals. There's no reason that Kaws originals that sell for 50-100K cant be worth 500K-1MM in the future. Banksy has no chance at becoming a contemporary artist. Banksy lives and dies in the streets. And while he is far past any other street artist, he has a long way to go to be considered in the same category (both price and talent) of great artists. Who knows if he will ever get there, but Kaws at least has a chance to grow into a great artist, not just a great street artist. And ultimately the difference is the dollars behind art vs street art.
The only thing I would say is that I think there is still room for Kaws to grow as an artist. Koons has basically reached his limit. How much more than $50 million can any of his works sell for?? Kaws has made the jump from street artist to artist. So while I don't think Kaws has that much room to increase prices on his prints, I see no limit to how high his prices can go on originals. There's no reason that Kaws originals that sell for 50-100K cant be worth 500K-1MM in the future. Banksy has no chance at becoming a contemporary artist. Banksy lives and dies in the streets. And while he is far past any other street artist, he has a long way to go to be considered in the same category (both price and talent) of great artists. Who knows if he will ever get there, but Kaws at least has a chance to grow into a great artist, not just a great street artist. And ultimately the difference is the dollars behind art vs street art.
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coller
Junior Member
Posts • 2,380
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April 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by coller on Aug 15, 2015 18:00:15 GMT 1, Banksy has no chance at becoming a contemporary artist. Banksy lives and dies in the streets. I honestly disagree. I can easily see Banksy taking on the fine art museum circuit in a similar way that he handled Bristol. I think he'd love it, too.
Still ready for "Banksy vs. the Met"
Banksy has no chance at becoming a contemporary artist. Banksy lives and dies in the streets. I honestly disagree. I can easily see Banksy taking on the fine art museum circuit in a similar way that he handled Bristol. I think he'd love it, too. Still ready for "Banksy vs. the Met"
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by johnnyvinyl on Aug 15, 2015 18:11:40 GMT 1, The only thing I would say is that I think there is still room for Kaws to grow as an artist. Koons has basically reached his limit. How much more than $50 million can any of his works sell for?? Kaws has made the jump from street artist to artist. So while I don't think Kaws has that much room to increase prices on his prints, I see no limit to how high his prices can go on originals. There's no reason that Kaws originals that sell for 50-100K cant be worth 500K-1MM in the future. He's already there. The two huge Afromosia wood Companion pieces that were shown at Mary Boone in 2013 were priced at $900K for the two figure work (which now resides in the lobby of the Brooklyn Museum) and $600K for the single figure version (now in Swizz Beat's collection). Even the 6' Better Knowing (edition of 3) that was in This is Not a Toy is valued at $350K (probably more now). Some of his large paintings sell in the low hundred thousands and even more if they have the provenance of Nigo or Pharrell. Editioned toys already command many multiples of the release prices.
For those who commented that all this talk of market prices is crass, I don't disagree. But that's the main purpose of this thread and let's face it, the only time many people sit up and take notice of art is when values are being discussed. It's kind of like how people love to talk about house prices...
The only thing I would say is that I think there is still room for Kaws to grow as an artist. Koons has basically reached his limit. How much more than $50 million can any of his works sell for?? Kaws has made the jump from street artist to artist. So while I don't think Kaws has that much room to increase prices on his prints, I see no limit to how high his prices can go on originals. There's no reason that Kaws originals that sell for 50-100K cant be worth 500K-1MM in the future. He's already there. The two huge Afromosia wood Companion pieces that were shown at Mary Boone in 2013 were priced at $900K for the two figure work (which now resides in the lobby of the Brooklyn Museum) and $600K for the single figure version (now in Swizz Beat's collection). Even the 6' Better Knowing (edition of 3) that was in This is Not a Toy is valued at $350K (probably more now). Some of his large paintings sell in the low hundred thousands and even more if they have the provenance of Nigo or Pharrell. Editioned toys already command many multiples of the release prices. For those who commented that all this talk of market prices is crass, I don't disagree. But that's the main purpose of this thread and let's face it, the only time many people sit up and take notice of art is when values are being discussed. It's kind of like how people love to talk about house prices...
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts • 2,007
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September 2013
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Black Apple Art on Aug 15, 2015 18:57:30 GMT 1, Banksy has no chance at becoming a contemporary artist. Banksy lives and dies in the streets. I honestly disagree. I can easily see Banksy taking on the fine art museum circuit in a similar way that he handled Bristol. I think he'd love it, too. Still ready for "Banksy vs. the Met" Very true... He can practically do anything he wants to do, key words being "wants to", as this is one of the reasons he really can not be compared to any other artists as he is doing the exact opposite of what is normally done, which makes his rise in demand, popularity and prices truly organic. Major institutions are usually required to be involved and worked with to achieve the high seven and eight figure prices as Koons has done. Banksy simply is a rogue element that gives zero access to these institutions so they, for the most part, ignore him in return. For me Banksy not subscribing to this set path artists have to follow and truly creating something the art world has never seen before is what draws me in. Seeing him occupy NY for a full month with meaningful installations entertaining millions or getting into Gaza to make a statement all at his own expense and selling nothing is much more powerful to me than someone selling a chrome popeye figure to a vegas casino for 28 million. How long will these institutions hold out, no one knows but one thing is for sure, it is a fascinating thing to watch and at the core provoking thought and doing the unexpected is his goal....for now.
Banksy has no chance at becoming a contemporary artist. Banksy lives and dies in the streets. I honestly disagree. I can easily see Banksy taking on the fine art museum circuit in a similar way that he handled Bristol. I think he'd love it, too. Still ready for "Banksy vs. the Met" Very true... He can practically do anything he wants to do, key words being "wants to", as this is one of the reasons he really can not be compared to any other artists as he is doing the exact opposite of what is normally done, which makes his rise in demand, popularity and prices truly organic. Major institutions are usually required to be involved and worked with to achieve the high seven and eight figure prices as Koons has done. Banksy simply is a rogue element that gives zero access to these institutions so they, for the most part, ignore him in return. For me Banksy not subscribing to this set path artists have to follow and truly creating something the art world has never seen before is what draws me in. Seeing him occupy NY for a full month with meaningful installations entertaining millions or getting into Gaza to make a statement all at his own expense and selling nothing is much more powerful to me than someone selling a chrome popeye figure to a vegas casino for 28 million. How long will these institutions hold out, no one knows but one thing is for sure, it is a fascinating thing to watch and at the core provoking thought and doing the unexpected is his goal....for now.
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coller
Junior Member
Posts • 2,380
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April 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by coller on Aug 15, 2015 19:06:40 GMT 1, I honestly disagree. I can easily see Banksy taking on the fine art museum circuit in a similar way that he handled Bristol. I think he'd love it, too. Still ready for "Banksy vs. the Met" Very true... He can practically do anything he wants to do, key words being "wants to", as this is one of the reasons he really can not be compared to any other artists as he is doing the exact opposite of what is normally done, which makes his rise in demand, popularity and prices truly organic. Major institutions are usually required to be involved and worked with to achieve the high seven and eight figure prices as Koons has done. Banksy simply is a rogue element that gives zero access to these institutions so they, for the most part, ignore him in return. For me Banksy not subscribing to this set path artists have to follow and truly creating something the art world has never seen before is what draws me in. Seeing him occupy NY for a full month with meaningful installations entertaining millions or getting into Gaza to make a statement all at his own expense and selling nothing is much more powerful to me than someone selling a chrome popeye figure to a vegas casino for 28 million. How long will these institutions hold out, no one knows but one thing is for sure, it is a fascinating thing to watch and at the core provoking thought and doing the unexpected is his goal....for now. I love how the Bristol Museum was so tied up in legal documents that they couldn't even tell reporters how they planned the show over a year later. Want to see that with more museums.
I honestly disagree. I can easily see Banksy taking on the fine art museum circuit in a similar way that he handled Bristol. I think he'd love it, too. Still ready for "Banksy vs. the Met" Very true... He can practically do anything he wants to do, key words being "wants to", as this is one of the reasons he really can not be compared to any other artists as he is doing the exact opposite of what is normally done, which makes his rise in demand, popularity and prices truly organic. Major institutions are usually required to be involved and worked with to achieve the high seven and eight figure prices as Koons has done. Banksy simply is a rogue element that gives zero access to these institutions so they, for the most part, ignore him in return. For me Banksy not subscribing to this set path artists have to follow and truly creating something the art world has never seen before is what draws me in. Seeing him occupy NY for a full month with meaningful installations entertaining millions or getting into Gaza to make a statement all at his own expense and selling nothing is much more powerful to me than someone selling a chrome popeye figure to a vegas casino for 28 million. How long will these institutions hold out, no one knows but one thing is for sure, it is a fascinating thing to watch and at the core provoking thought and doing the unexpected is his goal....for now. I love how the Bristol Museum was so tied up in legal documents that they couldn't even tell reporters how they planned the show over a year later. Want to see that with more museums.
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts • 2,007
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September 2013
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Black Apple Art on Aug 15, 2015 20:04:18 GMT 1, Very true... He can practically do anything he wants to do, key words being "wants to", as this is one of the reasons he really can not be compared to any other artists as he is doing the exact opposite of what is normally done, which makes his rise in demand, popularity and prices truly organic. Major institutions are usually required to be involved and worked with to achieve the high seven and eight figure prices as Koons has done. Banksy simply is a rogue element that gives zero access to these institutions so they, for the most part, ignore him in return. For me Banksy not subscribing to this set path artists have to follow and truly creating something the art world has never seen before is what draws me in. Seeing him occupy NY for a full month with meaningful installations entertaining millions or getting into Gaza to make a statement all at his own expense and selling nothing is much more powerful to me than someone selling a chrome popeye figure to a vegas casino for 28 million. How long will these institutions hold out, no one knows but one thing is for sure, it is a fascinating thing to watch and at the core provoking thought and doing the unexpected is his goal....for now. I love how the Bristol Museum was so tied up in legal documents that they couldn't even tell reporters how they planned the show over a year later. Want to see that with more museums. Well that's the catch.... Most of the world's top museums and institutions are used to dictating their own terms. Politics and egos would prevent something like that from ever happening there. I could see it happening though in the near future. All it takes is one major to decide to take the chance but as mentioned the politics are mindboggling.
Very true... He can practically do anything he wants to do, key words being "wants to", as this is one of the reasons he really can not be compared to any other artists as he is doing the exact opposite of what is normally done, which makes his rise in demand, popularity and prices truly organic. Major institutions are usually required to be involved and worked with to achieve the high seven and eight figure prices as Koons has done. Banksy simply is a rogue element that gives zero access to these institutions so they, for the most part, ignore him in return. For me Banksy not subscribing to this set path artists have to follow and truly creating something the art world has never seen before is what draws me in. Seeing him occupy NY for a full month with meaningful installations entertaining millions or getting into Gaza to make a statement all at his own expense and selling nothing is much more powerful to me than someone selling a chrome popeye figure to a vegas casino for 28 million. How long will these institutions hold out, no one knows but one thing is for sure, it is a fascinating thing to watch and at the core provoking thought and doing the unexpected is his goal....for now. I love how the Bristol Museum was so tied up in legal documents that they couldn't even tell reporters how they planned the show over a year later. Want to see that with more museums. Well that's the catch.... Most of the world's top museums and institutions are used to dictating their own terms. Politics and egos would prevent something like that from ever happening there. I could see it happening though in the near future. All it takes is one major to decide to take the chance but as mentioned the politics are mindboggling.
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coller
Junior Member
Posts • 2,380
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April 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by coller on Aug 15, 2015 20:11:50 GMT 1, *Kaws shrug*
*Kaws shrug*
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gravity1
New Member
Posts • 777
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January 2013
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by gravity1 on Aug 15, 2015 20:25:45 GMT 1, *Kaws shrug* I agree
*Kaws shrug* I agree
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 21:10:16 GMT 1, Banksy,
Because he is English.
Banksy,
Because he is English.
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Denis Bloch Fine Art on Aug 16, 2015 1:15:43 GMT 1, The answer is Banksy.
-global market -mass notoriety -iconic compositions
+ je ne sais quoi : )
The answer is Banksy.
-global market -mass notoriety -iconic compositions
+ je ne sais quoi : )
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CREAM
New Member
Posts • 422
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June 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by CREAM on Aug 16, 2015 1:22:43 GMT 1, You could easily say that about all three.
You could easily say that about all three.
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by johnnyvinyl on Aug 16, 2015 2:02:49 GMT 1, Here's the thing. I think that Koons has been largely supported by the previous generation of big collectors: the Broads, the Arnaults, Peter Brant, Steve Cohen, Dakis Joannou, etc. and the public institutions follow their lead and/or are supported by these collectors, either through donations or board influence. Banksy and KAWS come from the world of street art, which has only relatively recently gained institutional recognition (Basquiat and Haring notwithstanding, and even then not to the extent that they should be recognized since even MoMA has very little major work). Yet new collectors recognize their relevance and significance, given that their work (KAWS especially) is such a cross-pollination of contemporary cultural influences and references including graffiti, hip-hop, fashion, skateboard, sneakers, social media, etc.. For this reason their art also becomes more accessible to the masses as well - there is a visceral cool factor in their work that one doesn't need an art degree to appreciate. Their work will only continue to gain fans...and value.
Here's the thing. I think that Koons has been largely supported by the previous generation of big collectors: the Broads, the Arnaults, Peter Brant, Steve Cohen, Dakis Joannou, etc. and the public institutions follow their lead and/or are supported by these collectors, either through donations or board influence. Banksy and KAWS come from the world of street art, which has only relatively recently gained institutional recognition (Basquiat and Haring notwithstanding, and even then not to the extent that they should be recognized since even MoMA has very little major work). Yet new collectors recognize their relevance and significance, given that their work (KAWS especially) is such a cross-pollination of contemporary cultural influences and references including graffiti, hip-hop, fashion, skateboard, sneakers, social media, etc.. For this reason their art also becomes more accessible to the masses as well - there is a visceral cool factor in their work that one doesn't need an art degree to appreciate. Their work will only continue to gain fans...and value.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 8:17:39 GMT 1, Some of Koons ideas for sculpture are too expensive even for some cities in the US as public sculpture.
Koons seems to be about manufactured rubbish which is sold for profit to hedge funds and mega rich people etc.
Kaws large wooden sculptures, i'm sure he did not carve himself so the high price would have included the paying others to do it plus other costs.
The fact that some curator of a museum thought it a good purchase or some blinged up mega rich pop singer paid a high price doesn't mean that much.
Banksy has lots of options that he hasn't exploited so far and could go up in value or stay as it is.
Robber Bank hasn't done the Banksy market any favours by setting a for sale price on his wall pieces.
The dark Horse is Hirst whose prices have dropped and it's possible to pick up something good for a lower ish price.
The big boys like Mugrabi are buying up Hirsts as they did with Warhol when prices dropped and could raise the value of Hirst significantly in the future.
Chevrier is a good bet for an original.
She has the Lichtenstein feel with being original.
Some of Koons ideas for sculpture are too expensive even for some cities in the US as public sculpture.
Koons seems to be about manufactured rubbish which is sold for profit to hedge funds and mega rich people etc.
Kaws large wooden sculptures, i'm sure he did not carve himself so the high price would have included the paying others to do it plus other costs.
The fact that some curator of a museum thought it a good purchase or some blinged up mega rich pop singer paid a high price doesn't mean that much.
Banksy has lots of options that he hasn't exploited so far and could go up in value or stay as it is.
Robber Bank hasn't done the Banksy market any favours by setting a for sale price on his wall pieces.
The dark Horse is Hirst whose prices have dropped and it's possible to pick up something good for a lower ish price.
The big boys like Mugrabi are buying up Hirsts as they did with Warhol when prices dropped and could raise the value of Hirst significantly in the future.
Chevrier is a good bet for an original.
She has the Lichtenstein feel with being original.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 12:53:06 GMT 1, I love all 3 of those artists, but unless you're dying to have the artist in your collection, stay away from expensive editions and put the money into researched up and coming artist originals. Please research gallery exhibitions, publications and sales history outside of this forum
For 8k you could buy up to 3 beautiful original works. Enhances quality of living and has potential to enhance your wallet.
I love all 3 of those artists, but unless you're dying to have the artist in your collection, stay away from expensive editions and put the money into researched up and coming artist originals. Please research gallery exhibitions, publications and sales history outside of this forum For 8k you could buy up to 3 beautiful original works. Enhances quality of living and has potential to enhance your wallet.
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daveart
New Member
Posts • 940
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February 2008
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by daveart on Aug 17, 2015 14:16:19 GMT 1, I have collected Banksy for ten years.. so i am not knocking Banksy.. but think of it this way.
1. would you/could you personally build your Banksy collection again at TODAY's prices. <NO, AND NO and Hell NO> 2. if you hit it big and have the mega house /office/ whatever. would you really hang a Banksy as your center piece? um. no and no again. you are going to move on to something that 1. doesnt look street in your beautiful non street house/office. 2. something your wife/girlfriend actually likes. 3. As others have said Banksy is such an unknown wild card. say he runs out of cash - decides he needs a few more ferrari's ..whatever. and starts dropping a print run of 300 every few months like Fairey ..and look out below.
i am not selling the ones i have .. but would i 'invest' at this price point ? NO
That said. if you love it .. and you buy an unsigned print for 5K .. and five years on its selling at 2.5K .. who cares. as long as you love it. i have certainly bought stocks that lost half their value in five years and it hurts but you move on.
I have collected Banksy for ten years.. so i am not knocking Banksy.. but think of it this way.
1. would you/could you personally build your Banksy collection again at TODAY's prices. <NO, AND NO and Hell NO> 2. if you hit it big and have the mega house /office/ whatever. would you really hang a Banksy as your center piece? um. no and no again. you are going to move on to something that 1. doesnt look street in your beautiful non street house/office. 2. something your wife/girlfriend actually likes. 3. As others have said Banksy is such an unknown wild card. say he runs out of cash - decides he needs a few more ferrari's ..whatever. and starts dropping a print run of 300 every few months like Fairey ..and look out below.
i am not selling the ones i have .. but would i 'invest' at this price point ? NO
That said. if you love it .. and you buy an unsigned print for 5K .. and five years on its selling at 2.5K .. who cares. as long as you love it. i have certainly bought stocks that lost half their value in five years and it hurts but you move on.
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daveart
New Member
Posts • 940
Likes • 879
February 2008
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by daveart on Aug 17, 2015 15:22:20 GMT 1, some posts about Murakami - i started buying DOB pieces really early on.. and then .. Murakami just keeps cranking those babies out. If he had stopped at a few .. 3 or 4 versions maybe. Those might be 10K editions now. but when you are pretty sure he is going to keep releasing basically the same thing with different color variations - at roughly the same starting price - then why would you bid up the previous versions ? you have to really be a fan to value something higher just because it is older. same DOB... same flowers, same same. there are plenty of fans to scoop them up .. but not near the demand needed to make the price rise.
Hirst = same thing. If he came out tomorrow and said "we will NEVER make another spot edition or another butterfly or put another xyz in a tank" KA BOOM. the market would go crazy. too much supply that is basically indistinguishable from the other supply.
anyway, i hate to go all supply and demand on an art forum but the #1 reason in my opinion Banksy prints hit the prices they are now is supply being low. and there is no guarantee there will not be future supply (as stated above).
some posts about Murakami - i started buying DOB pieces really early on.. and then .. Murakami just keeps cranking those babies out. If he had stopped at a few .. 3 or 4 versions maybe. Those might be 10K editions now. but when you are pretty sure he is going to keep releasing basically the same thing with different color variations - at roughly the same starting price - then why would you bid up the previous versions ? you have to really be a fan to value something higher just because it is older. same DOB... same flowers, same same. there are plenty of fans to scoop them up .. but not near the demand needed to make the price rise.
Hirst = same thing. If he came out tomorrow and said "we will NEVER make another spot edition or another butterfly or put another xyz in a tank" KA BOOM. the market would go crazy. too much supply that is basically indistinguishable from the other supply.
anyway, i hate to go all supply and demand on an art forum but the #1 reason in my opinion Banksy prints hit the prices they are now is supply being low. and there is no guarantee there will not be future supply (as stated above).
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cyberkid
Junior Member
Posts • 2,374
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January 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by cyberkid on Aug 17, 2015 15:24:54 GMT 1, some posts about Murakami - i started buying DOB pieces really early on.. and then .. Murakami just keeps cranking those babies out. If he had stopped at a few .. 3 or 4 versions maybe. Those might be 10K editions now. but when you are pretty sure he is going to keep releasing basically the same thing with different color variations - at roughly the same starting price - then why would you bid up the previous versions ? you have to really be a fan to value something higher just because it is older. same DOB... same flowers, same same. there are plenty of fans to scoop them up .. but not near the demand needed to make the price rise. Hirst = same thing. If he came out tomorrow and said "we will NEVER make another spot edition or another butterfly or put another xyz in a tank" KA BOOM. the market would go crazy. too much supply that is basically indistinguishable from the other supply. anyway, i hate to go all supply and demand on an art forum but the #1 reason in my opinion Banksy prints hit the prices they are now is supply being low. and there is no guarantee there will not be future supply (as stated above). you are absolutely right !
some posts about Murakami - i started buying DOB pieces really early on.. and then .. Murakami just keeps cranking those babies out. If he had stopped at a few .. 3 or 4 versions maybe. Those might be 10K editions now. but when you are pretty sure he is going to keep releasing basically the same thing with different color variations - at roughly the same starting price - then why would you bid up the previous versions ? you have to really be a fan to value something higher just because it is older. same DOB... same flowers, same same. there are plenty of fans to scoop them up .. but not near the demand needed to make the price rise. Hirst = same thing. If he came out tomorrow and said "we will NEVER make another spot edition or another butterfly or put another xyz in a tank" KA BOOM. the market would go crazy. too much supply that is basically indistinguishable from the other supply. anyway, i hate to go all supply and demand on an art forum but the #1 reason in my opinion Banksy prints hit the prices they are now is supply being low. and there is no guarantee there will not be future supply (as stated above). you are absolutely right !
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coller
Junior Member
Posts • 2,380
Likes • 2,371
April 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by coller on Aug 17, 2015 17:08:37 GMT 1, some posts about Murakami - i started buying DOB pieces really early on.. and then .. Murakami just keeps cranking those babies out. If he had stopped at a few .. 3 or 4 versions maybe. Those might be 10K editions now. but when you are pretty sure he is going to keep releasing basically the same thing with different color variations - at roughly the same starting price - then why would you bid up the previous versions ? you have to really be a fan to value something higher just because it is older. same DOB... same flowers, same same. there are plenty of fans to scoop them up .. but not near the demand needed to make the price rise. Hirst = same thing. If he came out tomorrow and said "we will NEVER make another spot edition or another butterfly or put another xyz in a tank" KA BOOM. the market would go crazy. too much supply that is basically indistinguishable from the other supply. anyway, i hate to go all supply and demand on an art forum but the #1 reason in my opinion Banksy prints hit the prices they are now is supply being low. and there is no guarantee there will not be future supply (as stated above). you are absolutely right ! Banksy shows much more image diversity among prints than Murakami or Kaws, IMO; not nearly as interchangeable. I think that plays a large factor that isn't being mentioned.
With Murakami/Kaws, I can see myself letting one piece go for another similar-looking one. I can't ever see myself giving up a search for a particular Banksy in favor of another, since the images are so unique.
Except Choose Your Weapon - I could barely care about which background color I had, and I can't see people rationally paying 5-10k more for a shiny version in the distant future, especially when there are 600+ signed versions of that image.
some posts about Murakami - i started buying DOB pieces really early on.. and then .. Murakami just keeps cranking those babies out. If he had stopped at a few .. 3 or 4 versions maybe. Those might be 10K editions now. but when you are pretty sure he is going to keep releasing basically the same thing with different color variations - at roughly the same starting price - then why would you bid up the previous versions ? you have to really be a fan to value something higher just because it is older. same DOB... same flowers, same same. there are plenty of fans to scoop them up .. but not near the demand needed to make the price rise. Hirst = same thing. If he came out tomorrow and said "we will NEVER make another spot edition or another butterfly or put another xyz in a tank" KA BOOM. the market would go crazy. too much supply that is basically indistinguishable from the other supply. anyway, i hate to go all supply and demand on an art forum but the #1 reason in my opinion Banksy prints hit the prices they are now is supply being low. and there is no guarantee there will not be future supply (as stated above). you are absolutely right ! Banksy shows much more image diversity among prints than Murakami or Kaws, IMO; not nearly as interchangeable. I think that plays a large factor that isn't being mentioned. With Murakami/Kaws, I can see myself letting one piece go for another similar-looking one. I can't ever see myself giving up a search for a particular Banksy in favor of another, since the images are so unique. Except Choose Your Weapon - I could barely care about which background color I had, and I can't see people rationally paying 5-10k more for a shiny version in the distant future, especially when there are 600+ signed versions of that image.
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by maddoghoek100 on Aug 17, 2015 20:52:50 GMT 1, I think you are likely under estimating Murakami. Huge range of image diversity. that said likely an order of magnitude difference in the total number of available prints produced. So im not disagreeing with the likely outcome that if you want a specific Murakami you will find one you like that may be similar. I am saying that there are number of very unique Murakami prints, a few come to mind, Francis Bacon, 727, my personal favorite is reverse double helix.
Im a big murakami fan, they are great to hang and enjoy, but as said, there are a lot of them out there and many with similar feel even if they are not identical. Reverse double helix is my favorite piece i have hanging at the moment.
BTW, that Dan Gilbert ted talk in the Kaws thread is killer and probably has a lot of value to folks reading this thread.
you are absolutely right ! Banksy shows much more image diversity among prints than Murakami or Kaws, IMO; not nearly as interchangeable. I think that plays a large factor that isn't being mentioned. With Murakami/Kaws, I can see myself letting one piece go for another similar-looking one. I can't ever see myself giving up a search for a particular Banksy in favor of another, since the images are so unique.
I think you are likely under estimating Murakami. Huge range of image diversity. that said likely an order of magnitude difference in the total number of available prints produced. So im not disagreeing with the likely outcome that if you want a specific Murakami you will find one you like that may be similar. I am saying that there are number of very unique Murakami prints, a few come to mind, Francis Bacon, 727, my personal favorite is reverse double helix. Im a big murakami fan, they are great to hang and enjoy, but as said, there are a lot of them out there and many with similar feel even if they are not identical. Reverse double helix is my favorite piece i have hanging at the moment. BTW, that Dan Gilbert ted talk in the Kaws thread is killer and probably has a lot of value to folks reading this thread. you are absolutely right ! Banksy shows much more image diversity among prints than Murakami or Kaws, IMO; not nearly as interchangeable. I think that plays a large factor that isn't being mentioned. With Murakami/Kaws, I can see myself letting one piece go for another similar-looking one. I can't ever see myself giving up a search for a particular Banksy in favor of another, since the images are so unique.
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coller
Junior Member
Posts • 2,380
Likes • 2,371
April 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by coller on Aug 17, 2015 21:05:41 GMT 1, I agree with you. Didn't mean to understate his talent or the existence of unique pieces in his portfolio.
Basically this: "Im a big murakami fan, they are great to hang and enjoy, but as said, there are a lot of them out there and many with similar feel even if they are not identical."
I agree with you. Didn't mean to understate his talent or the existence of unique pieces in his portfolio.
Basically this: "Im a big murakami fan, they are great to hang and enjoy, but as said, there are a lot of them out there and many with similar feel even if they are not identical."
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South Bound
Junior Member
Posts • 1,483
Likes • 1,125
May 2014
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by South Bound on Aug 18, 2015 1:59:41 GMT 1, I think one crucial element has been left out of this conversation regarding art. So far we have: "buy what you love" and "buy the better investment".
We have forgotten the most important element:
"Buy what your spouse or significant other will actually let you hang in your home."
I think one crucial element has been left out of this conversation regarding art. So far we have: "buy what you love" and "buy the better investment".
We have forgotten the most important element:
"Buy what your spouse or significant other will actually let you hang in your home."
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Reptile 072
New Member
Posts • 530
Likes • 835
February 2014
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Reptile 072 on Aug 18, 2015 2:40:56 GMT 1, ^ Truth.
^ Truth.
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by johnnyvinyl on Aug 18, 2015 3:25:58 GMT 1, BTW, that Dan Gilbert ted talk in the Kaws thread is killer and probably has a lot of value to folks reading this thread. Can you provide a link maddoghoek?
BTW, that Dan Gilbert ted talk in the Kaws thread is killer and probably has a lot of value to folks reading this thread. Can you provide a link maddoghoek?
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mla
Junior Member
Posts • 1,104
Likes • 1,242
June 2015
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by mla on Aug 18, 2015 3:42:00 GMT 1, BTW, that Dan Gilbert ted talk in the Kaws thread is killer and probably has a lot of value to folks reading this thread. Can you provide a link maddoghoek?
BTW, that Dan Gilbert ted talk in the Kaws thread is killer and probably has a lot of value to folks reading this thread. Can you provide a link maddoghoek?
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by johnnyvinyl on Aug 18, 2015 4:04:13 GMT 1, Thanks mla!
Thanks mla!
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sixsense
New Member
Posts • 71
Likes • 214
November 2012
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by sixsense on Aug 18, 2015 11:01:58 GMT 1, Short term investment You have 8K to spare, instead of buying luxury watches or gadgets, and hoping the 8K has 20%or more growth in 2 or 3 years BUY THE HYPE - hype that was generate by social media, celebrities and trend You won’t be disappointed of making small profit and everyone loves what you bought. If you #kaws or #banksy in Instagram, I bet you have more like than any important artist that leaves mark in art history.
Long term investment As johnnyvinyl said, you need to look at the artists that support by collectors / galleries / museums / auction houses BUY THE ACADEMIC - those artist support by mentioned above. If you spent a good time of doing the homework. Your money will still have a good growth, may be not as fast as the hype artist in 2 to 3 years. But in a long run, those “academic artist” has more value in terms of both financially and academically. You can pass this to your next generation, and when you kids study art history at school, they found the artist you bought are in their text book. You will read more books/articles, attend to exhibitions during the hunt, your way of seeing changed. You can also explain to you kids or friends why Rothko is so expensive, what makes Duchamp’s fountain so important. The knowledge you earn is priceless.
I agree with maddoghoek100 Murakami is under estimate , I collect Murakami heavily and acquire an original recently as my holy grail . Interesting fact that KAWS recently released a print that has 250 run starting at 6K, Murakami prints that limited to 25 or 50 also selling at around 6K. (Don’t get me wrong, I like KAWS too, I bought his “No reply” portfolio and running chums print just last year) Lets not say Banksy and KAWS are overpriced. But if I compare them to Murakami or Kusama, they both under estimate.
My calculation of how a print worth is total sales of the prints = price of the original (despite the size) Therefore if KAWS new print average at $7K, it means the total sales of the print is $1,750,000, its far over the price of the original.
Short term investment You have 8K to spare, instead of buying luxury watches or gadgets, and hoping the 8K has 20%or more growth in 2 or 3 years BUY THE HYPE - hype that was generate by social media, celebrities and trend You won’t be disappointed of making small profit and everyone loves what you bought. If you #kaws or #banksy in Instagram, I bet you have more like than any important artist that leaves mark in art history. Long term investment As johnnyvinyl said, you need to look at the artists that support by collectors / galleries / museums / auction houses BUY THE ACADEMIC - those artist support by mentioned above. If you spent a good time of doing the homework. Your money will still have a good growth, may be not as fast as the hype artist in 2 to 3 years. But in a long run, those “academic artist” has more value in terms of both financially and academically. You can pass this to your next generation, and when you kids study art history at school, they found the artist you bought are in their text book. You will read more books/articles, attend to exhibitions during the hunt, your way of seeing changed. You can also explain to you kids or friends why Rothko is so expensive, what makes Duchamp’s fountain so important. The knowledge you earn is priceless. I agree with maddoghoek100 Murakami is under estimate , I collect Murakami heavily and acquire an original recently as my holy grail . Interesting fact that KAWS recently released a print that has 250 run starting at 6K, Murakami prints that limited to 25 or 50 also selling at around 6K. (Don’t get me wrong, I like KAWS too, I bought his “No reply” portfolio and running chums print just last year) Lets not say Banksy and KAWS are overpriced. But if I compare them to Murakami or Kusama, they both under estimate. My calculation of how a print worth is total sales of the prints = price of the original (despite the size) Therefore if KAWS new print average at $7K, it means the total sales of the print is $1,750,000, its far over the price of the original.
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by johnnyvinyl on Aug 18, 2015 12:30:58 GMT 1, My calculation of how a print worth is total sales of the prints = price of the original (despite the size) Therefore if KAWS new print average at $7K, it means the total sales of the print is $1,750,000, its far over the price of the original. Interesting theory!
My calculation of how a print worth is total sales of the prints = price of the original (despite the size) Therefore if KAWS new print average at $7K, it means the total sales of the print is $1,750,000, its far over the price of the original. Interesting theory!
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Deleted
Posts • 0
Likes •
January 1970
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Better investment Kaws, Koons or Banksy?, by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 14:32:07 GMT 1, Critics, Hoi Poloi, Museums, Curators give some artists more credibility than others.
Which increases prices at auction.
Critics, Hoi Poloi, Museums, Curators give some artists more credibility than others.
Which increases prices at auction.
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