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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 7, 2017 9:45:28 GMT 1, Hahaha don't really care. That s Just reality in the end. Tbh screenprinting is like the lowest form of printing (apart from offset and digital). It requires no work on the part of the artist whatsoever. Thank mr warhol for the generalization of that medium. If someone can name one other artist whose signed prints sell on average as much as banksy prints do (relative to OG prices) - I'll buy a few drinks. Apart from the quality of his art, he has one of the best management I have ever seen. He is on par with Jeff Koons (whose art is mediocre). Edit : If people thinks that mr B hasn't released anything for 7 years. Stuff are being sold and released privately for the select few and VIPs. No need to please the masses. What you probably consider higher forms of printing come from eras where they were the easiest/lowest forms of printing. If you just want to reproduce why would you use a more difficult and time consuming method? It's difficult to name another artist since banksy is just so different but I will give you one. He's right in front of you: Warhol. Where are the drinks? Koons is mediocre? I take it you didn't go to his retrospective at the Whitney. Koons and B are not succesful because of their management team. They are succesful cause they themselves are great promoters and salesmen (plus artistic talent imo). They ARE their management team. You don't sound like an art dealer. Anything but. You should really consider changing career cause you sound very cynical and burnt out about it. I meant everything I say but I also mean to say it lightly, respectfully, and with heart. I'm ok having an healthy and respectful debate. I don't want to hijack this thread so we can follow up by PM if you want.ย
Art is about craftsmanship not about things being easy. If you want the cheapest quality for your buck just do inkjet printing if we follow your logic.ย
Screenprinting was invented in the early 20th century and was popularized by Andy Warhol. People often tend to miss the fact that Warhol used that medium because it was easy to reproduce other images and his statement was to turn popular things meaningless by reproducing them over and over and over.ย
I wasn't talking much about the quality of screenprint in itself but the overuse of it by a lot of artists these days because it's cheap and easy. How many more man hours would it take the artist to do an aquatint, a linocut or even an original lithograph?ย
If you only like an image because it's pleasant to you and obviously quality has no bearing for you, why don't just buy a poster or a copy if that's all that matters. You're buying something not only because it speaks to you but because it is quality.ย
I'm a print specialist and if you think that the goal of printing is just about reproducing cheaply, you're missing out. Yes, it's started as a way for artist to be able to to offer cheaper work for sale but a lot of artists since the 16th century also treated it as a different medium to work on. Picasso printed about 2000 original prints using all technique but screenprinting. He thrived experimenting with different technique and medium and it ultimately personnaly made him a better artist.ย
As i said again, warhol isn't a good example. The average price of his prints relative to average price of his canvases are nothing like banksy's in term of ratio. I said that I think Banksy's prints as of now are slightly overpriced all things considered but also that his original pieces seems to be underpriced.ย
It's really interesting to me as I don't think I have ever since the phenomenon happen. Usually, OGs tend to gain more value than multiples because uniqueness and quality bring in a premium dollar. An example, the Picasso who holds the world record was bought in 97 for 31 millions and sold 2 years ago for 180 millions. If you compare, the most expensive picasso print was sold around 700k in 95 and now sells for around $2 million.ย
As for Koons, I think his brillance comes from how he understood early on how the art market worked. the dude got to the point where his work is presold before even being manufactured and people have no clue what they re gonna get. His art is shiny, big and pretty granted but is it really any good? Kinda easy to make an idea pretty come to life when manufacturing an artwork cost 10 million and you don't even touch the thing but to sign it lol.
Well we all know another dude on the street art scene who applied the same concepts (thierry guetta).ย
As for Banksy, his art is more brillant and more powerful. He is a way better artist technically as well. When I talk about management, I didn't mean to undermine his business mind but I trully think that Banksy isn't primarly about making $$$ and I also don't think that he manages his "career" by himself. Not because he can't but because he doesn't really give a f***ck about that aspect.ย
People also forgot that the reason there was never another print release was because of the mayhem from the Choose Your Weapon drop. People queuing before POW announced anything so POW decided to do the release anyway as hundreds were already queuing. Then thugs jumping the line. Too much drama.ย
If you look at Blu, he doesn't release much anymore publicly because that's not is primary goal.ย
As for the last point, I think I'm just a romantic about art and I value quality, integrity and craftsmanship. I'm a modern and early contemporary dealer so the artists I work on are for the most part are already dead. Now, it's not because my eyes are open as to how the market operates that it suddenly makes me burn out. You can call me cynical if you wish, I think I'm just more of a realist. If you think that a lot of primary dealers don't also already know that as well...
Hahaha don't really care. That s Just reality in the end. Tbh screenprinting is like the lowest form of printing (apart from offset and digital). It requires no work on the part of the artist whatsoever. Thank mr warhol for the generalization of that medium. If someone can name one other artist whose signed prints sell on average as much as banksy prints do (relative to OG prices) - I'll buy a few drinks. Apart from the quality of his art, he has one of the best management I have ever seen. He is on par with Jeff Koons (whose art is mediocre). Edit : If people thinks that mr B hasn't released anything for 7 years. Stuff are being sold and released privately for the select few and VIPs. No need to please the masses. What you probably consider higher forms of printing come from eras where they were the easiest/lowest forms of printing. If you just want to reproduce why would you use a more difficult and time consuming method? It's difficult to name another artist since banksy is just so different but I will give you one. He's right in front of you: Warhol. Where are the drinks? Koons is mediocre? I take it you didn't go to his retrospective at the Whitney. Koons and B are not succesful because of their management team. They are succesful cause they themselves are great promoters and salesmen (plus artistic talent imo). They ARE their management team. You don't sound like an art dealer. Anything but. You should really consider changing career cause you sound very cynical and burnt out about it. I meant everything I say but I also mean to say it lightly, respectfully, and with heart. I'm ok having an healthy and respectful debate. I don't want to hijack this thread so we can follow up by PM if you want.ย Art is about craftsmanship not about things being easy. If you want the cheapest quality for your buck just do inkjet printing if we follow your logic.ย Screenprinting was invented in the early 20th century and was popularized by Andy Warhol. People often tend to miss the fact that Warhol used that medium because it was easy to reproduce other images and his statement was to turn popular things meaningless by reproducing them over and over and over.ย I wasn't talking much about the quality of screenprint in itself but the overuse of it by a lot of artists these days because it's cheap and easy. How many more man hours would it take the artist to do an aquatint, a linocut or even an original lithograph?ย If you only like an image because it's pleasant to you and obviously quality has no bearing for you, why don't just buy a poster or a copy if that's all that matters. You're buying something not only because it speaks to you but because it is quality.ย I'm a print specialist and if you think that the goal of printing is just about reproducing cheaply, you're missing out. Yes, it's started as a way for artist to be able to to offer cheaper work for sale but a lot of artists since the 16th century also treated it as a different medium to work on. Picasso printed about 2000 original prints using all technique but screenprinting. He thrived experimenting with different technique and medium and it ultimately personnaly made him a better artist.ย As i said again, warhol isn't a good example. The average price of his prints relative to average price of his canvases are nothing like banksy's in term of ratio. I said that I think Banksy's prints as of now are slightly overpriced all things considered but also that his original pieces seems to be underpriced.ย It's really interesting to me as I don't think I have ever since the phenomenon happen. Usually, OGs tend to gain more value than multiples because uniqueness and quality bring in a premium dollar. An example, the Picasso who holds the world record was bought in 97 for 31 millions and sold 2 years ago for 180 millions. If you compare, the most expensive picasso print was sold around 700k in 95 and now sells for around $2 million.ย As for Koons, I think his brillance comes from how he understood early on how the art market worked. the dude got to the point where his work is presold before even being manufactured and people have no clue what they re gonna get. His art is shiny, big and pretty granted but is it really any good? Kinda easy to make an idea pretty come to life when manufacturing an artwork cost 10 million and you don't even touch the thing but to sign it lol. Well we all know another dude on the street art scene who applied the same concepts (thierry guetta).ย As for Banksy, his art is more brillant and more powerful. He is a way better artist technically as well. When I talk about management, I didn't mean to undermine his business mind but I trully think that Banksy isn't primarly about making $$$ and I also don't think that he manages his "career" by himself. Not because he can't but because he doesn't really give a f***ck about that aspect.ย People also forgot that the reason there was never another print release was because of the mayhem from the Choose Your Weapon drop. People queuing before POW announced anything so POW decided to do the release anyway as hundreds were already queuing. Then thugs jumping the line. Too much drama.ย If you look at Blu, he doesn't release much anymore publicly because that's not is primary goal.ย As for the last point, I think I'm just a romantic about art and I value quality, integrity and craftsmanship. I'm a modern and early contemporary dealer so the artists I work on are for the most part are already dead. Now, it's not because my eyes are open as to how the market operates that it suddenly makes me burn out. You can call me cynical if you wish, I think I'm just more of a realist. If you think that a lot of primary dealers don't also already know that as well...
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barryh
New Member
Posts โข 752
Likes โข 155
February 2012
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by barryh on Apr 7, 2017 13:40:15 GMT 1, Thankfully all these crying PMs are about selling prints you didn't like at the time and losing out on money... rather than being told your dog died.
Hindsite is a wonderful thing, but we all lived another day
Thankfully all these crying PMs are about selling prints you didn't like at the time and losing out on money... rather than being told your dog died. Hindsite is a wonderful thing, but we all lived another day
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by searchandrescue on Apr 7, 2017 16:34:45 GMT 1, Cripes brushstrokes75! You really are airing your dirty linen in public! Careful or you'll find these comments being presented to you at your next annual apraissal!!!!!! Hahaha don't really care. That s Just reality in the end. Tbh screenprinting is like the lowest form of printing (apart from offset and digital). It requires no work on the part of the artist whatsoever. Thank mr warhol for the generalization of that medium. If someone can name one other artist whose signed prints sell on average as much as banksy prints do (relative to OG prices) - I'll buy a few drinks. Apart from the quality of his art, he has one of the best management I have ever seen. He is on par with Jeff Koons (whose art is mediocre). Edit : If people thinks that mr B hasn't released anything for 7 years. Stuff are being sold and released privately for the select few and VIPs. No need to please the masses. +1 mate
Cripes brushstrokes75! You really are airing your dirty linen in public! Careful or you'll find these comments being presented to you at your next annual apraissal!!!!!! Hahaha don't really care. That s Just reality in the end. Tbh screenprinting is like the lowest form of printing (apart from offset and digital). It requires no work on the part of the artist whatsoever. Thank mr warhol for the generalization of that medium. If someone can name one other artist whose signed prints sell on average as much as banksy prints do (relative to OG prices) - I'll buy a few drinks. Apart from the quality of his art, he has one of the best management I have ever seen. He is on par with Jeff Koons (whose art is mediocre). Edit : If people thinks that mr B hasn't released anything for 7 years. Stuff are being sold and released privately for the select few and VIPs. No need to please the masses. +1 mate
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lucky7
New Member
Posts โข 423
Likes โข 178
June 2014
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by lucky7 on Apr 7, 2017 16:57:46 GMT 1, What you probably consider higher forms of printing come from eras where they were the easiest/lowest forms of printing. If you just want to reproduce why would you use a more difficult and time consuming method? It's difficult to name another artist since banksy is just so different but I will give you one. He's right in front of you: Warhol. Where are the drinks? Koons is mediocre? I take it you didn't go to his retrospective at the Whitney. Koons and B are not succesful because of their management team. They are succesful cause they themselves are great promoters and salesmen (plus artistic talent imo). They ARE their management team. You don't sound like an art dealer. Anything but. You should really consider changing career cause you sound very cynical and burnt out about it. I meant everything I say but I also mean to say it lightly, respectfully, and with heart. I'm ok having an healthy and respectful debate. I don't want to hijack this thread so we can follow up by PM if you want.ย Art is about craftsmanship not about things being easy. If you want the cheapest quality for your buck just do inkjet printing if we follow your logic.ย Screenprinting was invented in the early 20th century and was popularized by Andy Warhol. People often tend to miss the fact that Warhol used that medium because it was easy to reproduce other images and his statement was to turn popular things meaningless by reproducing them over and over and over.ย I wasn't talking much about the quality of screenprint in itself but the overuse of it by a lot of artists these days because it's cheap and easy. How many more man hours would it take the artist to do an aquatint, a linocut or even an original lithograph?ย If you only like an image because it's pleasant to you and obviously quality has no bearing for you, why don't just buy a poster or a copy if that's all that matters. You're buying something not only because it speaks to you but because it is quality.ย I'm a print specialist and if you think that the goal of printing is just about reproducing cheaply, you're missing out. Yes, it's started as a way for artist to be able to to offer cheaper work for sale but a lot of artists since the 16th century also treated it as a different medium to work on. Picasso printed about 2000 original prints using all technique but screenprinting. He thrived experimenting with different technique and medium and it ultimately personnaly made him a better artist.ย As i said again, warhol isn't a good example. The average price of his prints relative to average price of his canvases are nothing like banksy's in term of ratio. I said that I think Banksy's prints as of now are slightly overpriced all things considered but also that his original pieces seems to be underpriced.ย It's really interesting to me as I don't think I have ever since the phenomenon happen. Usually, OGs tend to gain more value than multiples because uniqueness and quality bring in a premium dollar. An example, the Picasso who holds the world record was bought in 97 for 31 millions and sold 2 years ago for 180 millions. If you compare, the most expensive picasso print was sold around 700k in 95 and now sells for around $2 million.ย As for Koons, I think his brillance comes from how he understood early on how the art market worked. the dude got to the point where his work is presold before even being manufactured and people have no clue what they re gonna get. His art is shiny, big and pretty granted but is it really any good? Kinda easy to make an idea pretty come to life when manufacturing an artwork cost 10 million and you don't even touch the thing but to sign it lol. Well we all know another dude on the street art scene who applied the same concepts (thierry guetta).ย As for Banksy, his art is more brillant and more powerful. He is a way better artist technically as well. When I talk about management, I didn't mean to undermine his business mind but I trully think that Banksy isn't primarly about making $$$ and I also don't think that he manages his "career" by himself. Not because he can't but because he doesn't really give a f***ck about that aspect.ย People also forgot that the reason there was never another print release was because of the mayhem from the Choose Your Weapon drop. People queuing before POW announced anything so POW decided to do the release anyway as hundreds were already queuing. Then thugs jumping the line. Too much drama.ย If you look at Blu, he doesn't release much anymore publicly because that's not is primary goal.ย As for the last point, I think I'm just a romantic about art and I value quality, integrity and craftsmanship. I'm a modern and early contemporary dealer so the artists I work on are for the most part are already dead. Now, it's not because my eyes are open as to how the market operates that it suddenly makes me burn out. You can call me cynical if you wish, I think I'm just more of a realist. If you think that a lot of primary dealers don't also already know that as well...
Let's wait until someone complains.
What Koons says about emotions, consumerism, opulence, etc. I find very interesting and his work when seen in person is profoundly moving.
I think you are anything but a realist. The artworld IS what it IS but you say oh, The olden days when tortured souls toiled alone (it was never like that) in their workshop were better and truer: You are an idealist.
I totally disagree with your opinion on Warhol. He did not want to strip art of meaning. He wanted to change it's meaning, make it popular, hence the name. He was fighting precisely YOUR perspective on art, that somethings are somehow "higher" than others.
Warhol's prints are his originals (I feel this summarizes and explains his art), his canvases were prints. One of his most iconic prints/canvas/original is going to be more expensive than his painting (I don't know if he even did paintings). B is similar, his prints have become iconic, maybe even more iconic than his street work, and more iconic than canvases, woods, etc, hence the prices. It depends on the nature of the artist, it's almost like wondering why a sculptor's work is more expensive than his performances.
The problem is you put technique above concept. And in contemporary art, concept reigns supreme, as it should be and has been for 100 years.
You should try to evolve.
What you probably consider higher forms of printing come from eras where they were the easiest/lowest forms of printing. If you just want to reproduce why would you use a more difficult and time consuming method? It's difficult to name another artist since banksy is just so different but I will give you one. He's right in front of you: Warhol. Where are the drinks? Koons is mediocre? I take it you didn't go to his retrospective at the Whitney. Koons and B are not succesful because of their management team. They are succesful cause they themselves are great promoters and salesmen (plus artistic talent imo). They ARE their management team. You don't sound like an art dealer. Anything but. You should really consider changing career cause you sound very cynical and burnt out about it. I meant everything I say but I also mean to say it lightly, respectfully, and with heart. I'm ok having an healthy and respectful debate. I don't want to hijack this thread so we can follow up by PM if you want.ย Art is about craftsmanship not about things being easy. If you want the cheapest quality for your buck just do inkjet printing if we follow your logic.ย Screenprinting was invented in the early 20th century and was popularized by Andy Warhol. People often tend to miss the fact that Warhol used that medium because it was easy to reproduce other images and his statement was to turn popular things meaningless by reproducing them over and over and over.ย I wasn't talking much about the quality of screenprint in itself but the overuse of it by a lot of artists these days because it's cheap and easy. How many more man hours would it take the artist to do an aquatint, a linocut or even an original lithograph?ย If you only like an image because it's pleasant to you and obviously quality has no bearing for you, why don't just buy a poster or a copy if that's all that matters. You're buying something not only because it speaks to you but because it is quality.ย I'm a print specialist and if you think that the goal of printing is just about reproducing cheaply, you're missing out. Yes, it's started as a way for artist to be able to to offer cheaper work for sale but a lot of artists since the 16th century also treated it as a different medium to work on. Picasso printed about 2000 original prints using all technique but screenprinting. He thrived experimenting with different technique and medium and it ultimately personnaly made him a better artist.ย As i said again, warhol isn't a good example. The average price of his prints relative to average price of his canvases are nothing like banksy's in term of ratio. I said that I think Banksy's prints as of now are slightly overpriced all things considered but also that his original pieces seems to be underpriced.ย It's really interesting to me as I don't think I have ever since the phenomenon happen. Usually, OGs tend to gain more value than multiples because uniqueness and quality bring in a premium dollar. An example, the Picasso who holds the world record was bought in 97 for 31 millions and sold 2 years ago for 180 millions. If you compare, the most expensive picasso print was sold around 700k in 95 and now sells for around $2 million.ย As for Koons, I think his brillance comes from how he understood early on how the art market worked. the dude got to the point where his work is presold before even being manufactured and people have no clue what they re gonna get. His art is shiny, big and pretty granted but is it really any good? Kinda easy to make an idea pretty come to life when manufacturing an artwork cost 10 million and you don't even touch the thing but to sign it lol. Well we all know another dude on the street art scene who applied the same concepts (thierry guetta).ย As for Banksy, his art is more brillant and more powerful. He is a way better artist technically as well. When I talk about management, I didn't mean to undermine his business mind but I trully think that Banksy isn't primarly about making $$$ and I also don't think that he manages his "career" by himself. Not because he can't but because he doesn't really give a f***ck about that aspect.ย People also forgot that the reason there was never another print release was because of the mayhem from the Choose Your Weapon drop. People queuing before POW announced anything so POW decided to do the release anyway as hundreds were already queuing. Then thugs jumping the line. Too much drama.ย If you look at Blu, he doesn't release much anymore publicly because that's not is primary goal.ย As for the last point, I think I'm just a romantic about art and I value quality, integrity and craftsmanship. I'm a modern and early contemporary dealer so the artists I work on are for the most part are already dead. Now, it's not because my eyes are open as to how the market operates that it suddenly makes me burn out. You can call me cynical if you wish, I think I'm just more of a realist. If you think that a lot of primary dealers don't also already know that as well... Let's wait until someone complains. What Koons says about emotions, consumerism, opulence, etc. I find very interesting and his work when seen in person is profoundly moving. I think you are anything but a realist. The artworld IS what it IS but you say oh, The olden days when tortured souls toiled alone (it was never like that) in their workshop were better and truer: You are an idealist. I totally disagree with your opinion on Warhol. He did not want to strip art of meaning. He wanted to change it's meaning, make it popular, hence the name. He was fighting precisely YOUR perspective on art, that somethings are somehow "higher" than others. Warhol's prints are his originals (I feel this summarizes and explains his art), his canvases were prints. One of his most iconic prints/canvas/original is going to be more expensive than his painting (I don't know if he even did paintings). B is similar, his prints have become iconic, maybe even more iconic than his street work, and more iconic than canvases, woods, etc, hence the prices. It depends on the nature of the artist, it's almost like wondering why a sculptor's work is more expensive than his performances. The problem is you put technique above concept. And in contemporary art, concept reigns supreme, as it should be and has been for 100 years. You should try to evolve.
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Brushstrokes 75 on Apr 16, 2017 19:19:32 GMT 1, I wrote a lengthy reply that i didn't get to post because I fractured my hand and had surgery last week end.
Considering you've been pretty condescending with your replies, I have to tell you your posts screams how uneducated your are about the subject.
This photo will just sum it up... koons take on consumerism
I wrote a lengthy reply that i didn't get to post because I fractured my hand and had surgery last week end. Considering you've been pretty condescending with your replies, I have to tell you your posts screams how uneducated your are about the subject. This photo will just sum it up... koons take on consumerism
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lucky7
New Member
Posts โข 423
Likes โข 178
June 2014
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by lucky7 on Apr 16, 2017 22:12:42 GMT 1, I wrote a lengthy reply that i didn't get to post because I fractured my hand and had surgery last week end. Considering you've been pretty condescending with your replies, I have to tell you your posts screams how uneducated your are about the subject. This photo will just sum it up... koons take on consumerism
Edit:
I wish you a full recovery.
I wrote a lengthy reply that i didn't get to post because I fractured my hand and had surgery last week end. Considering you've been pretty condescending with your replies, I have to tell you your posts screams how uneducated your are about the subject. This photo will just sum it up... koons take on consumerism Edit: I wish you a full recovery.
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honestcrooks
New Member
Posts โข 332
Likes โข 445
May 2014
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by honestcrooks on Apr 16, 2017 22:13:49 GMT 1, Not by PM on these boards, but still... Passed on a Kaws 4ft dissected companion, local pickup for 6k a few years ago. Wife didn't like the color
Not by PM on these boards, but still... Passed on a Kaws 4ft dissected companion, local pickup for 6k a few years ago. Wife didn't like the color
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SMP
New Member
Posts โข 35
Likes โข 17
October 2014
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by SMP on Apr 16, 2017 23:12:25 GMT 1, Passed on a Harland Miller TIWIFA h/f AP at 3k a few years back, though not via PM. Still kick myself!
Passed on a Harland Miller TIWIFA h/f AP at 3k a few years back, though not via PM. Still kick myself!
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medichead
New Member
Posts โข 575
Likes โข 578
January 2017
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by medichead on Apr 17, 2017 2:23:35 GMT 1, Passed on a Harland Miller TIWIFA h/f AP at 3k a few years back, though not via PM. Still kick myself!
Yikes. Prices have gone crazy, such a shame.
Passed on a Harland Miller TIWIFA h/f AP at 3k a few years back, though not via PM. Still kick myself! Yikes. Prices have gone crazy, such a shame.
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Lroy on Apr 17, 2017 8:53:27 GMT 1, What a thread ?! Boys don't cry Even for a missing DONALD PRINT
What a thread ?! Boys don't cry Even for a missing DONALD PRINT
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WOOF
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,457
Likes โข 4,753
March 2014
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by WOOF on Apr 25, 2017 23:15:45 GMT 1, Not PM's, but I wish I had bought one of these...
Not PM's, but I wish I had bought one of these...
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jB
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,677
Likes โข 988
June 2007
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by jB on Apr 25, 2017 23:49:19 GMT 1, my first PM in June 2007 regarding a Unsigned love rat --- And I passed. Geez....
"I would take ยฃ650 to be honest, even though it may be worth a little more!"
my first PM in June 2007 regarding a Unsigned love rat --- And I passed. Geez....
"I would take ยฃ650 to be honest, even though it may be worth a little more!"
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Which of your previous PMs makes you want to cry the most, by Sliding on the Walls on Apr 27, 2017 9:48:43 GMT 1, What a thread ?! Boys don't cry Even for a missing DONALD PRINT
Thanks Robert Smith, but the thread said makes you WANT to cry not actually cry hahaha
What a thread ?! Boys don't cry Even for a missing DONALD PRINT Thanks Robert Smith, but the thread said makes you WANT to cry not actually cry hahaha
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