slevin
New Member
Posts โข 587
Likes โข 682
December 2015
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by slevin on Sept 5, 2017 20:19:53 GMT 1, I buy art sparingly as my disposable income allows. I buy based on:
1) The artists style. I buy art for hanging, not for the portfolio. If I don't like the style, it's not going on the wall.
2) The meaning. The style is all well and good but a pretty picture needs something behind it to stand the test of time. Banksy's Girl With Balloon is so simple yet there can be so many interpretations for it.
3) The artists history. Is the artists work in the streets, exhibitions, curated galleries? If the artist isn't getting out there and interacting with the world, then I feel no need to interact with them.
Based on the above my last 4 pieces I've bought have been by Mehdi Ghadyanloo, Shepard Fairey, Zedsy and Fanakapan.
I buy art sparingly as my disposable income allows. I buy based on:
1) The artists style. I buy art for hanging, not for the portfolio. If I don't like the style, it's not going on the wall.
2) The meaning. The style is all well and good but a pretty picture needs something behind it to stand the test of time. Banksy's Girl With Balloon is so simple yet there can be so many interpretations for it.
3) The artists history. Is the artists work in the streets, exhibitions, curated galleries? If the artist isn't getting out there and interacting with the world, then I feel no need to interact with them.
Based on the above my last 4 pieces I've bought have been by Mehdi Ghadyanloo, Shepard Fairey, Zedsy and Fanakapan.
|
|
Fะฏ
Full Member
Posts โข 8,248
Likes โข 9,236
May 2013
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Fะฏ on Sept 5, 2017 20:33:43 GMT 1, I buy art sparingly as my disposable income allows. I buy based on: 1) The artists style. I buy art for hanging, not for the portfolio. If I don't like the style, it's not going on the wall. 2) The meaning. The style is all well and good but a pretty picture needs something behind it to stand the test of time. Banksy's Girl With Balloon is so simple yet there can be so many interpretations for it. 3) The artists history. Is the artists work in the streets, exhibitions, curated galleries? If the artist isn't getting out there and interacting with the world, then I feel no need to interact with them. Based on the above my last 4 pieces I've bought have been by Mehdi Ghadyanloo, Shepard Fairey, Zedsy and Fanakapan. Was nodding my head in total agreement there.
then it got to the zedsy bit and i shook my head the other way.
I buy art sparingly as my disposable income allows. I buy based on: 1) The artists style. I buy art for hanging, not for the portfolio. If I don't like the style, it's not going on the wall. 2) The meaning. The style is all well and good but a pretty picture needs something behind it to stand the test of time. Banksy's Girl With Balloon is so simple yet there can be so many interpretations for it. 3) The artists history. Is the artists work in the streets, exhibitions, curated galleries? If the artist isn't getting out there and interacting with the world, then I feel no need to interact with them. Based on the above my last 4 pieces I've bought have been by Mehdi Ghadyanloo, Shepard Fairey, Zedsy and Fanakapan. Was nodding my head in total agreement there. then it got to the zedsy bit and i shook my head the other way.
|
|
Bram
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,815
Likes โข 286
November 2007
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Bram on Sept 5, 2017 20:40:59 GMT 1, Fair enough. I do not recall any of the master painters using an overhead projector though. what is the story behind these book covers? The stories last longer - things that people believe more than the aesthetic. Vermeer, Da Vinci and Caravaggio sort of did.
Fair enough. I do not recall any of the master painters using an overhead projector though. what is the story behind these book covers? The stories last longer - things that people believe more than the aesthetic. Vermeer, Da Vinci and Caravaggio sort of did.
|
|
Bram
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,815
Likes โข 286
November 2007
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Bram on Sept 5, 2017 20:44:03 GMT 1, and YSA's are the new YBA's ;-)
and YSA's are the new YBA's ;-)
|
|
slevin
New Member
Posts โข 587
Likes โข 682
December 2015
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by slevin on Sept 5, 2017 20:53:02 GMT 1, I buy art sparingly as my disposable income allows. I buy based on: 1) The artists style. I buy art for hanging, not for the portfolio. If I don't like the style, it's not going on the wall. 2) The meaning. The style is all well and good but a pretty picture needs something behind it to stand the test of time. Banksy's Girl With Balloon is so simple yet there can be so many interpretations for it. 3) The artists history. Is the artists work in the streets, exhibitions, curated galleries? If the artist isn't getting out there and interacting with the world, then I feel no need to interact with them. Based on the above my last 4 pieces I've bought have been by Mehdi Ghadyanloo, Shepard Fairey, Zedsy and Fanakapan. Was nodding my head in total agreement there. then it got to the zedsy bit and i shook my head the other way. Well I guess I should have written: Based on the above and what I can afford...
And for me the Poison Apple is a keeper.
I buy art sparingly as my disposable income allows. I buy based on: 1) The artists style. I buy art for hanging, not for the portfolio. If I don't like the style, it's not going on the wall. 2) The meaning. The style is all well and good but a pretty picture needs something behind it to stand the test of time. Banksy's Girl With Balloon is so simple yet there can be so many interpretations for it. 3) The artists history. Is the artists work in the streets, exhibitions, curated galleries? If the artist isn't getting out there and interacting with the world, then I feel no need to interact with them. Based on the above my last 4 pieces I've bought have been by Mehdi Ghadyanloo, Shepard Fairey, Zedsy and Fanakapan. Was nodding my head in total agreement there. then it got to the zedsy bit and i shook my head the other way. Well I guess I should have written: Based on the above and what I can afford... And for me the Poison Apple is a keeper.
|
|
Bram
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,815
Likes โข 286
November 2007
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Bram on Sept 5, 2017 21:12:57 GMT 1, whereas Damien hires someone else to use an overhead projector
whereas Damien hires someone else to use an overhead projector
|
|
|
graffuturism
New Member
Posts โข 754
Likes โข 771
March 2010
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by graffuturism on Sept 5, 2017 22:11:59 GMT 1, These types of threads always fail and judging by what i normally witness here on this forum through recent threads and posts, I wouldnโt say the Forum is really breaking any ground collecting art. Much is recycled HYPE, and a small handful of actual worthy work being shared. Even great posts or shares get ignored behind some other recycled art.
That being said ill try to provide something of meaning here for anyone that cares or the 1% in here that are mostly silent but do get it.
As a curator/collector/artist/blogger I have taught myself to look at art a certain way and I feel its helps sometimes digesting the large amount of art you are confronted with on a daily. Checking Blogs/instagram/Facebook and so forth its not hard to get a decent lay of the land daily and watch artists progress or regress. This Forum is an exception I rarely see anything of interest, just see it more as a case study to understand why people buy bad art consistently, and those that do get it why are they seeing something others arenโt. I have yet to find that answer which is why i continue to watch this forum.
For me I have focused the most of my attention on Urban/Graffiti/Street Art to watch and observe, although my main focus is on emerging graffiti/Urban/Hybrid artists I still watch street art just to see what is going on. I choose this focus because my history is with graffiti and its progression into contemporary art. Itโs just something I feel the most comfortable with anyone can choose either of these topics. Lucky for me street art is basically dead and what you are witnessing is really not street art, its just bad copies of an era that ended around 2007. Muralism on the other hand is something that has emerged and there is some talent on that end of the spectrum, yet its not street art as it is primarily sanctioned and decorative in nature mostly. Kitsch art in many ways could describe this new era. For me graffiti is coming back, and not beat street style graffiti in a gallery but real graffiti artists progressing into new areas of contemporary art.
This brings us to collecting, after taking my focus off the larger art picture and primarily looking at our genre I look for artists whoโs work speaks to me, not just aesthetically but conceptually as well. There are plenty of great painters and technically gifted artists but Ill take an artist with drive and willing to progress over talent any day. Itโs not evident at first but you have to look at an artistโs progression over the years. If he has instagram look at his feed, look for clear transitions from one work to another, or look for stagnation where the artist seems stuck in a style for years. It doesnโt mean that these are necessarily bad but I donโt like to see artists progress too fast with new styles, its usually a sign they are copying or being too influenced by some other artist or trend. If they are stagnate unless they have created something truly unique and have every right to stand behind a certain style then its a bad sign for long term growth. Some artists I watch just need more time or someone, or collectors to stop enabling them to be average. Iโve seen artists break this cycle and I am always watching waiting for that moment in their work to show me something honest.
So for me I watch I observe and I look for character, and progression. I know its hard to get all this from the Internet but its really all there. You just have to watch and listen. Notice how nothing about this is about how much they sell, how much money their work is about, those are all temporary things and if you wait and watch long enough you will find something that you can believe in for longer than a quick flip.
These types of threads always fail and judging by what i normally witness here on this forum through recent threads and posts, I wouldnโt say the Forum is really breaking any ground collecting art. Much is recycled HYPE, and a small handful of actual worthy work being shared. Even great posts or shares get ignored behind some other recycled art.
That being said ill try to provide something of meaning here for anyone that cares or the 1% in here that are mostly silent but do get it.
As a curator/collector/artist/blogger I have taught myself to look at art a certain way and I feel its helps sometimes digesting the large amount of art you are confronted with on a daily. Checking Blogs/instagram/Facebook and so forth its not hard to get a decent lay of the land daily and watch artists progress or regress. This Forum is an exception I rarely see anything of interest, just see it more as a case study to understand why people buy bad art consistently, and those that do get it why are they seeing something others arenโt. I have yet to find that answer which is why i continue to watch this forum.
For me I have focused the most of my attention on Urban/Graffiti/Street Art to watch and observe, although my main focus is on emerging graffiti/Urban/Hybrid artists I still watch street art just to see what is going on. I choose this focus because my history is with graffiti and its progression into contemporary art. Itโs just something I feel the most comfortable with anyone can choose either of these topics. Lucky for me street art is basically dead and what you are witnessing is really not street art, its just bad copies of an era that ended around 2007. Muralism on the other hand is something that has emerged and there is some talent on that end of the spectrum, yet its not street art as it is primarily sanctioned and decorative in nature mostly. Kitsch art in many ways could describe this new era. For me graffiti is coming back, and not beat street style graffiti in a gallery but real graffiti artists progressing into new areas of contemporary art.
This brings us to collecting, after taking my focus off the larger art picture and primarily looking at our genre I look for artists whoโs work speaks to me, not just aesthetically but conceptually as well. There are plenty of great painters and technically gifted artists but Ill take an artist with drive and willing to progress over talent any day. Itโs not evident at first but you have to look at an artistโs progression over the years. If he has instagram look at his feed, look for clear transitions from one work to another, or look for stagnation where the artist seems stuck in a style for years. It doesnโt mean that these are necessarily bad but I donโt like to see artists progress too fast with new styles, its usually a sign they are copying or being too influenced by some other artist or trend. If they are stagnate unless they have created something truly unique and have every right to stand behind a certain style then its a bad sign for long term growth. Some artists I watch just need more time or someone, or collectors to stop enabling them to be average. Iโve seen artists break this cycle and I am always watching waiting for that moment in their work to show me something honest.
So for me I watch I observe and I look for character, and progression. I know its hard to get all this from the Internet but its really all there. You just have to watch and listen. Notice how nothing about this is about how much they sell, how much money their work is about, those are all temporary things and if you wait and watch long enough you will find something that you can believe in for longer than a quick flip.
|
|
chevyav53
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,356
Likes โข 1,134
August 2017
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by chevyav53 on Sept 5, 2017 23:38:28 GMT 1, Funny, I thought it was a very simple thread. So who do you collect or not?
Though your insight was fascinating you failed to answer the question. A questions which makes forums such as this, entertaining. Isn't that what they are, a form of entertainment.
Yes a lot of people peddle art on here, a lot of junk too, but this is where you can use your infinite wisdom and drop some knowledge on everyone as which artist you think we should collect or not. Do you have one?
Funny, I thought it was a very simple thread. So who do you collect or not?
Though your insight was fascinating you failed to answer the question. A questions which makes forums such as this, entertaining. Isn't that what they are, a form of entertainment.
Yes a lot of people peddle art on here, a lot of junk too, but this is where you can use your infinite wisdom and drop some knowledge on everyone as which artist you think we should collect or not. Do you have one?
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 3:02:36 GMT 1, Regarding Harland.... Yes there are certainly an over abundance of chancer secondary sellers right now trying to set sales records on prints and take advantage of the recent interest. Certainly quite a bit of hype generated on this forum as a sales tactic from some of them. I've been insulted with several price quotes recently myself. (There are plenty of stand up sellers at actual market prices as well of course). However Harland is not really in the same conversation as an artist as most mentioned by the OP..or for that matter 90% discussed on here when you look at his CV. The vast majority of his collectors are not likely hanging around this forum as his work isn't considered street, urban, graffiti, etc.. Likely he will be remembered as one of the important contemporary artists of his time. At the end of the day we are talking about a well respected and absolute master painter backed by the White Cube machine, has works in major collections, has a global market, sold out every print ever made at this point, has a 2-3 year wait list on commissions, had the majority of his last show sold out at preview, demand for his work in on the incline not the decline, could go on and on..... This is a recipe for the bottom to fall out? Maybe...but not likely IMO. More likely it will stabilize for a bit and then who knows.... Hirst is a different conversation altogether and not exactly a reasonable comparison but I think you know that already.ย *** I do own some of HM's work ***ย I really love Miller's work... It certainly does it for me, and I've been following him from when you could buy originals and HF prints from his website. However, if you look at his process, I wouldn't describe them being of an "absolute master painter"... For example...You probably wouldn't expect him to apply transfer stencil letters to a generic canvas template in different colours? Before... After... Ah. Thanks for sharing! I can concede that maybe "Master Painter" is a stretch for most and I totally get that. Just a personal comparison to artists that are able evoke the same sort of emotion through their paintings and artists whose work I can personally get lost in. I completely recognize that he is not to everyone's taste and have no issue there. At the same time when people say things like "it's just a book cover" or "it's just paint splashed around" or "it's just a painting of a swimming pool" and so on and so on when discussing art It's kind of a discussion stopper. These pics are very cool indeed. Would love to see some more of his early pictures if you have them. Not surprising at all that stencils were used on some of these works. What would be really cool would be a comparison of his studio and process from then and now. Do you think they might be any different or progressed over the years? The final products sure seem to have a bit from this example.
In all fairness my initial comment was related the the "bottom dropping out" of Harland's market or whatever. Which in hindsight I shouldn't have commented on. I know better. It blurs any sort of discussion of appreciating the artist or the art itself. I will leave any future Market or Price speculation discussions to the "internet experts" and just shut up and enjoy what I have on my walls ๐
But really. Thanks again for the pics! I've saved them :-)
Regarding Harland.... Yes there are certainly an over abundance of chancer secondary sellers right now trying to set sales records on prints and take advantage of the recent interest. Certainly quite a bit of hype generated on this forum as a sales tactic from some of them. I've been insulted with several price quotes recently myself. (There are plenty of stand up sellers at actual market prices as well of course). However Harland is not really in the same conversation as an artist as most mentioned by the OP..or for that matter 90% discussed on here when you look at his CV. The vast majority of his collectors are not likely hanging around this forum as his work isn't considered street, urban, graffiti, etc.. Likely he will be remembered as one of the important contemporary artists of his time. At the end of the day we are talking about a well respected and absolute master painter backed by the White Cube machine, has works in major collections, has a global market, sold out every print ever made at this point, has a 2-3 year wait list on commissions, had the majority of his last show sold out at preview, demand for his work in on the incline not the decline, could go on and on..... This is a recipe for the bottom to fall out? Maybe...but not likely IMO. More likely it will stabilize for a bit and then who knows.... Hirst is a different conversation altogether and not exactly a reasonable comparison but I think you know that already.ย *** I do own some of HM's work ***ย I really love Miller's work... It certainly does it for me, and I've been following him from when you could buy originals and HF prints from his website. However, if you look at his process, I wouldn't describe them being of an "absolute master painter"... For example...You probably wouldn't expect him to apply transfer stencil letters to a generic canvas template in different colours? Before... After... Ah. Thanks for sharing! I can concede that maybe "Master Painter" is a stretch for most and I totally get that. Just a personal comparison to artists that are able evoke the same sort of emotion through their paintings and artists whose work I can personally get lost in. I completely recognize that he is not to everyone's taste and have no issue there. At the same time when people say things like "it's just a book cover" or "it's just paint splashed around" or "it's just a painting of a swimming pool" and so on and so on when discussing art It's kind of a discussion stopper. These pics are very cool indeed. Would love to see some more of his early pictures if you have them. Not surprising at all that stencils were used on some of these works. What would be really cool would be a comparison of his studio and process from then and now. Do you think they might be any different or progressed over the years? The final products sure seem to have a bit from this example. In all fairness my initial comment was related the the "bottom dropping out" of Harland's market or whatever. Which in hindsight I shouldn't have commented on. I know better. It blurs any sort of discussion of appreciating the artist or the art itself. I will leave any future Market or Price speculation discussions to the "internet experts" and just shut up and enjoy what I have on my walls ๐ But really. Thanks again for the pics! I've saved them :-)
|
|
graffuturism
New Member
Posts โข 754
Likes โข 771
March 2010
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by graffuturism on Sept 6, 2017 6:15:24 GMT 1, Funny, I thought it was a very simple thread. So who do you collect or not? Though your insight was fascinating you failed to answer the question. A questions which makes forums such as this, entertaining. Isn't that what they are, a form of entertainment. Yes a lot of people peddle art on here, a lot of junk too, but this is where you can use your infinite wisdom and drop some knowledge on everyone as which artist you think we should collect or not. Do you have one? Thats the Irony there is no correct answer to the question, people need to find what they like for themselves.
As far as what I collect I collect artists that really dont make there way in this forum but rarely and those that know me know what genre i represent. If you want to learn more check out my blog which i just started updating again, and here is a post of my last curated exhibition. Also check my IG feed its easy to get an idea of what I collect.
http://instagr.am/p/BYhB0WKAiDv
Funny, I thought it was a very simple thread. So who do you collect or not? Though your insight was fascinating you failed to answer the question. A questions which makes forums such as this, entertaining. Isn't that what they are, a form of entertainment. Yes a lot of people peddle art on here, a lot of junk too, but this is where you can use your infinite wisdom and drop some knowledge on everyone as which artist you think we should collect or not. Do you have one? Thats the Irony there is no correct answer to the question, people need to find what they like for themselves. As far as what I collect I collect artists that really dont make there way in this forum but rarely and those that know me know what genre i represent. If you want to learn more check out my blog which i just started updating again, and here is a post of my last curated exhibition. Also check my IG feed its easy to get an idea of what I collect. http://instagr.am/p/BYhB0WKAiDv
|
|
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Yeah Yeah Yeah Round2 on Sept 6, 2017 11:49:29 GMT 1, Hetty Douglas Is definitely the new kid on the block.
Hetty Douglas Is definitely the new kid on the block.
|
|
gd79
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,129
Likes โข 1,220
September 2015
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by gd79 on Sept 6, 2017 12:19:49 GMT 1, I love the flipside of this question, which some comments have mentioned. Forget who to buy, who should be avoided? Vast reservoirs of cash have been spent on art that has gone thoroughly backwards. Probably most of what was sold as urban a decade ago is now worth less than the frame it's in. The hero stories are great, and prove how smart we are (!!) but I bet the zero stories far outnumber them.
and it's when we think about those ones that we all say we're not in it to profit, love the piece, have had all kinds of enjoyment from it etc... But we'd all swap it in a heartbeat if we could go back to when we bought it and put the money on the actual next big thing instead
I love the flipside of this question, which some comments have mentioned. Forget who to buy, who should be avoided? Vast reservoirs of cash have been spent on art that has gone thoroughly backwards. Probably most of what was sold as urban a decade ago is now worth less than the frame it's in. The hero stories are great, and prove how smart we are (!!) but I bet the zero stories far outnumber them.
and it's when we think about those ones that we all say we're not in it to profit, love the piece, have had all kinds of enjoyment from it etc... But we'd all swap it in a heartbeat if we could go back to when we bought it and put the money on the actual next big thing instead
|
|
chevyav53
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,356
Likes โข 1,134
August 2017
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by chevyav53 on Sept 6, 2017 14:18:23 GMT 1, Thats the Irony there is no correct answer to the question, people need to find what they like for themselves. As far as what I collect I collect artists that really dont make there way in this forum but rarely and those that know me know what genre i represent. If you want to learn more check out my blog which i just started updating again, and here is a post of my last curated exhibition. Also check my IG feed its easy to get an idea of what I collect. http://instagr.am/p/BYhB0WKAiDv Now that is what I am talking about. This was helpful and exposes everyone to new artists. Best part I'm in the Bay Area and could have gone to the current showing. Can't make it now but maybe we can make the 5 year anniversary. You have some great artists showing.
Thats the Irony there is no correct answer to the question, people need to find what they like for themselves. As far as what I collect I collect artists that really dont make there way in this forum but rarely and those that know me know what genre i represent. If you want to learn more check out my blog which i just started updating again, and here is a post of my last curated exhibition. Also check my IG feed its easy to get an idea of what I collect. http://instagr.am/p/BYhB0WKAiDv Now that is what I am talking about. This was helpful and exposes everyone to new artists. Best part I'm in the Bay Area and could have gone to the current showing. Can't make it now but maybe we can make the 5 year anniversary. You have some great artists showing.
|
|
gravity1
New Member
Posts โข 777
Likes โข 492
January 2013
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by gravity1 on Sept 6, 2017 18:19:18 GMT 1, Not sure what qualifies HM as a "Master Painter" creating simple book covers but you are definitely correct about him being backed by the White Cube "Machine", which is exactly that and is quite effective manufacturing markets on a select artist via their "inside collector infrastructure" which is why I see a similar flaw in his current pricing and possible future "fallout" that FR mentioned. His most recent show, unbeknownst to most, actually went largely unsold, aside from Hirst and a few other of their inside "collectors" immediate pickups, that they promoted immediately, which imo really doesn't count as true sales. After all they are always marketing so I get them trying to give the illusion of a "sell out" right away as many shows do. I have many collector friends who are trusted long time Cube and other major gallery customers and were offered a bulk of the show as available long after the show was over. The gallery is just very careful who they offer it to and clever how they do it where they "check the inventory" and get back to you after asking you what you are interested first including size, slogan, price range ect so they can come back to you with 3-4 pieces that hit the mark while not fully revealing how many pieces are actually available. I don't think the gallery realizes that many of these collectors communicate and all found they were told they few pieces presented to them were the "only pieces left" and most had "deposits on them and may fall through" while all of them were shown different pieces and even offered others after they didn't like the first selection. All that aside, I do like his older works as I find several clever and entertaining but those were back in 2011-2013 and at prices that seemed appropriate for what they were. I think this last effort was very significant as it showed that this level of "cleverness" couldn't be sustained and just throwing average slogans on mockup book covers might not be sustainable, White Cube machine or not. The machine may give the impression that it was a hit but I think anyone trying to get out of one of these newer works on the secondary would be in for a big shock. Regardless, will be very interesting to see what he does going forward. Have seen you say the HM 'one bar electric memoir' show has gone largely unsold a few times. Out of interest, where did you hear this? I have seen and heard countless posts / people saying the show "sold out" so maybe we should be asking those people why they think it was sold out. My information comes from actual collectors that were in communication with WC after the show and were offered a large portion of the pieces collectively since they were all communicating with each other. Both the collectors and myself deduced from this that these pieces had not sold and those pieces comprised a large portion of the show. As mentioned it's a standard practice to protect the artist's brand but the show was most definitely not "sold out". Again, I actually like HM and a lot of his past works but this was solely about statements that it was "sold out"
Not sure what qualifies HM as a "Master Painter" creating simple book covers but you are definitely correct about him being backed by the White Cube "Machine", which is exactly that and is quite effective manufacturing markets on a select artist via their "inside collector infrastructure" which is why I see a similar flaw in his current pricing and possible future "fallout" that FR mentioned. His most recent show, unbeknownst to most, actually went largely unsold, aside from Hirst and a few other of their inside "collectors" immediate pickups, that they promoted immediately, which imo really doesn't count as true sales. After all they are always marketing so I get them trying to give the illusion of a "sell out" right away as many shows do. I have many collector friends who are trusted long time Cube and other major gallery customers and were offered a bulk of the show as available long after the show was over. The gallery is just very careful who they offer it to and clever how they do it where they "check the inventory" and get back to you after asking you what you are interested first including size, slogan, price range ect so they can come back to you with 3-4 pieces that hit the mark while not fully revealing how many pieces are actually available. I don't think the gallery realizes that many of these collectors communicate and all found they were told they few pieces presented to them were the "only pieces left" and most had "deposits on them and may fall through" while all of them were shown different pieces and even offered others after they didn't like the first selection. All that aside, I do like his older works as I find several clever and entertaining but those were back in 2011-2013 and at prices that seemed appropriate for what they were. I think this last effort was very significant as it showed that this level of "cleverness" couldn't be sustained and just throwing average slogans on mockup book covers might not be sustainable, White Cube machine or not. The machine may give the impression that it was a hit but I think anyone trying to get out of one of these newer works on the secondary would be in for a big shock. Regardless, will be very interesting to see what he does going forward. Have seen you say the HM 'one bar electric memoir' show has gone largely unsold a few times. Out of interest, where did you hear this? I have seen and heard countless posts / people saying the show "sold out" so maybe we should be asking those people why they think it was sold out. My information comes from actual collectors that were in communication with WC after the show and were offered a large portion of the pieces collectively since they were all communicating with each other. Both the collectors and myself deduced from this that these pieces had not sold and those pieces comprised a large portion of the show. As mentioned it's a standard practice to protect the artist's brand but the show was most definitely not "sold out". Again, I actually like HM and a lot of his past works but this was solely about statements that it was "sold out"
|
|
|
nobokov
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,843
Likes โข 6,761
February 2016
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by nobokov on Sept 6, 2017 18:36:15 GMT 1, You might dig Ravi Zupa's work, very detailed and layered pieces, mostly his original work anyway. Also has some very cool prints with progressive messages. American from Denver, CO Thanks Mrs. Zupa! Love your son's work.
You might dig Ravi Zupa's work, very detailed and layered pieces, mostly his original work anyway. Also has some very cool prints with progressive messages. American from Denver, CO Thanks Mrs. Zupa! Love your son's work.
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 18:58:51 GMT 1, Have seen you say the HM 'one bar electric memoir' show has gone largely unsold a few times. Out of interest, where did you hear this? I have seen and heard countless posts / people saying the show "sold out" so maybe we should be asking those people why they think it was sold out. My information comes from actual collectors that were in communication with WC after the show and were offered a large portion of the pieces collectively since they were all communicating with each other. Both the collectors and myself deduced from this that these pieces had not sold and those pieces comprised a large portion of the show. As mentioned it's a standard practice to protect the artist's brand but the show was most definitely not "sold out". Again, I actually like HM and a lot of his past works but this was solely about statements that it was "sold out" As someone who mentioned that his last show was largely sold (Not sold out) I will happily share that that information came from and why I "think" it sold well. This information came not from friends or friends of friends or friends of "actual collectors" or the usual art gossip circle but directly from White Cube both at the private preview that I attended as well as after...I feel no need to qualify if I am considered an "actual collector" in anyones eyes. But there is the actual first hand communication. If you want to believe that sales of the last show is a huge White Cube conspiracy that I am certainly not going to try and talk you out of it...
Have seen you say the HM 'one bar electric memoir' show has gone largely unsold a few times. Out of interest, where did you hear this? I have seen and heard countless posts / people saying the show "sold out" so maybe we should be asking those people why they think it was sold out. My information comes from actual collectors that were in communication with WC after the show and were offered a large portion of the pieces collectively since they were all communicating with each other. Both the collectors and myself deduced from this that these pieces had not sold and those pieces comprised a large portion of the show. As mentioned it's a standard practice to protect the artist's brand but the show was most definitely not "sold out". Again, I actually like HM and a lot of his past works but this was solely about statements that it was "sold out" As someone who mentioned that his last show was largely sold (Not sold out) I will happily share that that information came from and why I "think" it sold well. This information came not from friends or friends of friends or friends of "actual collectors" or the usual art gossip circle but directly from White Cube both at the private preview that I attended as well as after...I feel no need to qualify if I am considered an "actual collector" in anyones eyes. But there is the actual first hand communication. If you want to believe that sales of the last show is a huge White Cube conspiracy that I am certainly not going to try and talk you out of it...
|
|
Matt
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,347
Likes โข 3,434
September 2014
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Matt on Sept 6, 2017 19:02:51 GMT 1, @augustg you do realise that the word of someone with a huge vested interest is not better (or worse for that matter) than gossip.
Regardless of what kind of client you are or are not to white cube, they will not tell you that a lot of the stuff is still available will they
@augustg you do realise that the word of someone with a huge vested interest is not better (or worse for that matter) than gossip.
Regardless of what kind of client you are or are not to white cube, they will not tell you that a lot of the stuff is still available will they
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Deleted on Sept 6, 2017 19:15:22 GMT 1, @augustg you do realise that the word of someone with a huge vested interest is not better (or worse for that matter) than gossip. Regardless of what kind of client you are or are not to white cube, they will not tell you that a lot of the stuff is still available will they Completely understand. I do have a vested as you say and I have stated. It's unfortunate that this overshadows people's opinions here but I get it. I also have little concern about the long term value believe it or not. Was just answering the question raised based on first hand knowledge rather than hearsay. If I am not credible than so be it. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it.
@augustg you do realise that the word of someone with a huge vested interest is not better (or worse for that matter) than gossip. Regardless of what kind of client you are or are not to white cube, they will not tell you that a lot of the stuff is still available will they Completely understand. I do have a vested as you say and I have stated. It's unfortunate that this overshadows people's opinions here but I get it. I also have little concern about the long term value believe it or not. Was just answering the question raised based on first hand knowledge rather than hearsay. If I am not credible than so be it. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it.
|
|
Matt
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,347
Likes โข 3,434
September 2014
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Matt on Sept 6, 2017 19:23:45 GMT 1, @augustg you do realise that the word of someone with a huge vested interest is not better (or worse for that matter) than gossip. Regardless of what kind of client you are or are not to white cube, they will not tell you that a lot of the stuff is still available will they Completely understand. I do have a vested as you say and I have stated. It's unfortunate that this overshadows people's opinions here but I get it. I also have little concern about the long term value believe it or not. Was just answering the question raised based on first hand knowledge rather than hearsay. If I am not credible than so be it. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it.
My bad, by vested interest I was referring to the gallery rather than you.
I also collect with little concern of investment. I have other actual investments, with which I know what I am doing, and can afford the luxury of just buying stuff I like :-)
@augustg you do realise that the word of someone with a huge vested interest is not better (or worse for that matter) than gossip. Regardless of what kind of client you are or are not to white cube, they will not tell you that a lot of the stuff is still available will they Completely understand. I do have a vested as you say and I have stated. It's unfortunate that this overshadows people's opinions here but I get it. I also have little concern about the long term value believe it or not. Was just answering the question raised based on first hand knowledge rather than hearsay. If I am not credible than so be it. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it. My bad, by vested interest I was referring to the gallery rather than you. I also collect with little concern of investment. I have other actual investments, with which I know what I am doing, and can afford the luxury of just buying stuff I like :-)
|
|
mojo
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,017
Likes โข 3,281
May 2014
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by mojo on Sept 6, 2017 20:19:39 GMT 1, And it's been said a million times don't let your wife get involved in your art decescions and new found hobby ๐ OI! Surely that statement is largely dependent on who YOU chose as a wife....you certainly wouldn't hear Mr Mojo dissing my choice of artwork, he's done very well out of it and is pretty knowledgeable himself.
And it's been said a million times ....don't be sexist. It makes you sound a bit backward ....yeah?
And it's been said a million times don't let your wife get involved in your art decescions and new found hobby ๐ OI! Surely that statement is largely dependent on who YOU chose as a wife....you certainly wouldn't hear Mr Mojo dissing my choice of artwork, he's done very well out of it and is pretty knowledgeable himself. And it's been said a million times ....don't be sexist. It makes you sound a bit backward ....yeah?
|
|
Howard Johnson
New Member
Posts โข 924
Likes โข 1,617
September 2014
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Howard Johnson on Sept 6, 2017 21:05:56 GMT 1, Take a moment to reflect on whether you want to A) Buy simply to enjoy the artwork itself; B) Want to buy strictly for investment value; or C) Want to buy with an eye towards investment, but primarily for your own personal enjoyment?
If you picked B, get off the forum and grab a copy of forbes as they will provide better advice then the hype driven discussions on here. (Props to invader though, good to see an OG raise in value as opposed to another Geddes or whatever).
If your type A (cheapest), just buy what you like and don't worry about who made it. the artists you mentioned that you "don't like" cover a wide gambit of styles and historical importance. If you don't care about investment, support local artists and buy originals that you will love and cherish. Buy some WCP Banksys so that you can lie and show off to your friends, but beyond that who really cares about the artists behind the work if YOU love it?
If you choose C, better sit back and be patient. There's no easy way to learn how to invest smartly while maintaining a collection that is tailored to your interests. It takes time, and you will make many poor decisions along the way. A simple trick that can be employed is diversity. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, spread your investments over multiple artists, movements, mediums, and levels of historical importance. There is no way to know what will be valuable in the future, so hedge your bets and you'll be more likely to get a bigger payout down the line. When I say "importance" (poor phrasing) I mean blue chip artists like Warhol, Banksy, ect. against emerging artists like Harland Miller or POSE. Just as Disney stock will never bottom out, its highly unlikely that the Warhol floor will fall, but these investments pay out very little so you have to be patient enough to wait them out (make sure you get something you want to hang!).
My personal philosophy is that its silly not to collect with an eye towards investment as there is so much damn art in the world that you will always find works that you love and are a worthy investment, it just takes patience, and an understanding that you wont really know how to gauge what you love or what represents a good investment for a few years. Good luck!
Take a moment to reflect on whether you want to A) Buy simply to enjoy the artwork itself; B) Want to buy strictly for investment value; or C) Want to buy with an eye towards investment, but primarily for your own personal enjoyment?
If you picked B, get off the forum and grab a copy of forbes as they will provide better advice then the hype driven discussions on here. (Props to invader though, good to see an OG raise in value as opposed to another Geddes or whatever).
If your type A (cheapest), just buy what you like and don't worry about who made it. the artists you mentioned that you "don't like" cover a wide gambit of styles and historical importance. If you don't care about investment, support local artists and buy originals that you will love and cherish. Buy some WCP Banksys so that you can lie and show off to your friends, but beyond that who really cares about the artists behind the work if YOU love it?
If you choose C, better sit back and be patient. There's no easy way to learn how to invest smartly while maintaining a collection that is tailored to your interests. It takes time, and you will make many poor decisions along the way. A simple trick that can be employed is diversity. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, spread your investments over multiple artists, movements, mediums, and levels of historical importance. There is no way to know what will be valuable in the future, so hedge your bets and you'll be more likely to get a bigger payout down the line. When I say "importance" (poor phrasing) I mean blue chip artists like Warhol, Banksy, ect. against emerging artists like Harland Miller or POSE. Just as Disney stock will never bottom out, its highly unlikely that the Warhol floor will fall, but these investments pay out very little so you have to be patient enough to wait them out (make sure you get something you want to hang!).
My personal philosophy is that its silly not to collect with an eye towards investment as there is so much damn art in the world that you will always find works that you love and are a worthy investment, it just takes patience, and an understanding that you wont really know how to gauge what you love or what represents a good investment for a few years. Good luck!
|
|
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Street Art Fan on Nov 17, 2017 21:58:31 GMT 1, Can you explain what your 'thorough professional analysis' is? Of course. I would be happy to elaborate, since sharing knowledge is the basis of this beautiful forum. Although I usually get generously compensated to advice people how to invest in art I will make an exeption for you. In this case I start by analyzing all the previous post of the OP, to form a vision of preference. I also take in consideration the forum name and used avatar. Combining this with my extensive knowledge of the art world and cunning financial skills I decide on a course of action. Then with my astonishing skill in using the Controle C and V buttons I copy the artists the OP likes and dislikes and compose my advice. It's a painful proces, but nevertheless very rewarding. Hands down the post of the year. Kudos, my good sir.
Can you explain what your 'thorough professional analysis' is? Of course. I would be happy to elaborate, since sharing knowledge is the basis of this beautiful forum. Although I usually get generously compensated to advice people how to invest in art I will make an exeption for you. In this case I start by analyzing all the previous post of the OP, to form a vision of preference. I also take in consideration the forum name and used avatar. Combining this with my extensive knowledge of the art world and cunning financial skills I decide on a course of action. Then with my astonishing skill in using the Controle C and V buttons I copy the artists the OP likes and dislikes and compose my advice. It's a painful proces, but nevertheless very rewarding. Hands down the post of the year. Kudos, my good sir.
|
|
|
moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by moron on Nov 17, 2017 22:05:32 GMT 1, Regarding Harland.... Yes there are certainly an over abundance of chancer secondary sellers right now trying to set sales records on prints and take advantage of the recent interest. Certainly quite a bit of hype generated on this forum as a sales tactic from some of them. I've been insulted with several price quotes recently myself. (There are plenty of stand up sellers at actual market prices as well of course). However Harland is not really in the same conversation as an artist as most mentioned by the OP..or for that matter 90% discussed on here when you look at his CV. The vast majority of his collectors are not likely hanging around this forum as his work isn't considered street, urban, graffiti, etc.. Likely he will be remembered as one of the important contemporary artists of his time. At the end of the day we are talking about a well respected and absolute master painter backed by the White Cube machine, has works in major collections, has a global market, sold out every print ever made at this point, has a 2-3 year wait list on commissions, had the majority of his last show sold out at preview, demand for his work in on the incline not the decline, could go on and on..... This is a recipe for the bottom to fall out? Maybe...but not likely IMO. More likely it will stabilize for a bit and then who knows.... Hirst is a different conversation altogether and not exactly a reasonable comparison but I think you know that already. *** I do own some of HM's work *** I really love Miller's work... It certainly does it for me, and I've been following him from when you could buy originals and HF prints from his website. However, if you look at his process, I wouldn't describe them being of an "absolute master painter"... For example...You probably wouldn't expect him to apply transfer stencil letters to a generic canvas template in different colours? Before... After... How very unimpressive. So it's all about the gimmick, a bit of witty text.
Regarding Harland.... Yes there are certainly an over abundance of chancer secondary sellers right now trying to set sales records on prints and take advantage of the recent interest. Certainly quite a bit of hype generated on this forum as a sales tactic from some of them. I've been insulted with several price quotes recently myself. (There are plenty of stand up sellers at actual market prices as well of course). However Harland is not really in the same conversation as an artist as most mentioned by the OP..or for that matter 90% discussed on here when you look at his CV. The vast majority of his collectors are not likely hanging around this forum as his work isn't considered street, urban, graffiti, etc.. Likely he will be remembered as one of the important contemporary artists of his time. At the end of the day we are talking about a well respected and absolute master painter backed by the White Cube machine, has works in major collections, has a global market, sold out every print ever made at this point, has a 2-3 year wait list on commissions, had the majority of his last show sold out at preview, demand for his work in on the incline not the decline, could go on and on..... This is a recipe for the bottom to fall out? Maybe...but not likely IMO. More likely it will stabilize for a bit and then who knows.... Hirst is a different conversation altogether and not exactly a reasonable comparison but I think you know that already. *** I do own some of HM's work *** I really love Miller's work... It certainly does it for me, and I've been following him from when you could buy originals and HF prints from his website. However, if you look at his process, I wouldn't describe them being of an "absolute master painter"... For example...You probably wouldn't expect him to apply transfer stencil letters to a generic canvas template in different colours? Before... After... How very unimpressive. So it's all about the gimmick, a bit of witty text.
|
|
kaimac
New Member
Posts โข 277
Likes โข 230
October 2013
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by kaimac on Nov 17, 2017 22:11:07 GMT 1, Just buy every Modern Toss piece available and you'll be good.
Just buy every Modern Toss piece available and you'll be good.
|
|
cyberkid
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,374
Likes โข 2,443
January 2015
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by cyberkid on Nov 17, 2017 22:25:02 GMT 1, I could say it in a roundabout way, but time is against me today. So i will just say it: 1. The arse will fall out of Harland Miller like some sort of bad food poisoning. 2. When Peter Blake passes away, the market will be saturated with his work so dont buy thinking it will go up. 3. Most artwork sold now is just pretty tags and scribbles. Girls floating, that sort of thing. Look to those artists who have depth in ideas like pejac for example (would have said banksy 10 years ago on the same note). Ideas always last longer than styles. "Ideas always last longer than styles." wow....it could have been me speaking ! ;-)
I could say it in a roundabout way, but time is against me today. So i will just say it: 1. The arse will fall out of Harland Miller like some sort of bad food poisoning. 2. When Peter Blake passes away, the market will be saturated with his work so dont buy thinking it will go up. 3. Most artwork sold now is just pretty tags and scribbles. Girls floating, that sort of thing. Look to those artists who have depth in ideas like pejac for example (would have said banksy 10 years ago on the same note). Ideas always last longer than styles. "Ideas always last longer than styles." wow....it could have been me speaking ! ;-)
|
|
moron
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,711
Likes โข 1,050
September 2017
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by moron on Nov 17, 2017 22:26:34 GMT 1, I think this forum is a good way of getting a feel if what's good in the long term by looking at the sales threads and the urban art people are disposing of now that they bought quite a long time ago. A lot of artists do not have people behind them creating a market.
I think another way is to look at the whole urban art scene and imagine the direction it is going in, see if the blogs vlogs and mags etc are featuring and new artists whose originals and prints are very affordable.
Instagram is a good place to see who and what is new and their street art.
Lots of very creative and talented people making street art today. Some make art on walls as a form of advertising whilst others make art on walls because they would anyway. It's probably the business minded artists who hook up with galleries creating shows and using art on the streets they make with huge machines and assistants to market themselve sin the urban street art nice.
I don't know whether it's better to buy a bit of everything to build up a collection or portfolio and play safe or to collect or buy only a certain style of urban art by certain artists.
It's probably worth checking out online the numerous smaller bricks and morter sale rooms who have regular sales of urban art which sells for laffrdable prices. Salerooms in London Paris and many other countries, it's easy to see their previous and upcoming sales.
I think urban art in general has had it's best years financially and is becoming less fashionable regarding the mid priced art thats sold in galleries today.
I think this forum is a good way of getting a feel if what's good in the long term by looking at the sales threads and the urban art people are disposing of now that they bought quite a long time ago. A lot of artists do not have people behind them creating a market.
I think another way is to look at the whole urban art scene and imagine the direction it is going in, see if the blogs vlogs and mags etc are featuring and new artists whose originals and prints are very affordable.
Instagram is a good place to see who and what is new and their street art.
Lots of very creative and talented people making street art today. Some make art on walls as a form of advertising whilst others make art on walls because they would anyway. It's probably the business minded artists who hook up with galleries creating shows and using art on the streets they make with huge machines and assistants to market themselve sin the urban street art nice.
I don't know whether it's better to buy a bit of everything to build up a collection or portfolio and play safe or to collect or buy only a certain style of urban art by certain artists.
It's probably worth checking out online the numerous smaller bricks and morter sale rooms who have regular sales of urban art which sells for laffrdable prices. Salerooms in London Paris and many other countries, it's easy to see their previous and upcoming sales.
I think urban art in general has had it's best years financially and is becoming less fashionable regarding the mid priced art thats sold in galleries today.
|
|
wisky
New Member
Posts โข 587
Likes โข 395
September 2014
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by wisky on Nov 18, 2017 12:59:22 GMT 1, Joe Webb......!
Joe Webb......!
|
|
Hairbland
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,942
Likes โข 2,730
November 2010
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Hairbland on Nov 18, 2017 13:08:42 GMT 1, Fair enough. I do not recall any of the master painters using an overhead projector though. what is the story behind these book covers? The stories last longer - things that people believe more than the aesthetic. I think you may be confusing the Connor Brothers or one of the other imitators. Harland doesn't use an overhead projector to create his works. Warhol used projectors.
Fair enough. I do not recall any of the master painters using an overhead projector though. what is the story behind these book covers? The stories last longer - things that people believe more than the aesthetic. I think you may be confusing the Connor Brothers or one of the other imitators. Harland doesn't use an overhead projector to create his works. Warhol used projectors.
|
|
andrep
New Member
Posts โข 24
Likes โข 2
November 2017
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by andrep on Nov 30, 2017 16:19:23 GMT 1, Great Art topic ! I like the works by. Artist Andre Pace . published book : Contemporary & modern forums by.Andre pace(isbn:978-1-4931-0554-0).
Www.GallArt.com Www.AskArt.com
Thank you ..
Great Art topic ! I like the works by. Artist Andre Pace . published book : Contemporary & modern forums by.Andre pace(isbn:978-1-4931-0554-0). Www.GallArt.comWww.AskArt.com Thank you ..
|
|
Quinnster
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,625
Likes โข 2,769
January 2006
|
Urban Art - Who to collect or not!, by Quinnster on Nov 30, 2017 20:40:37 GMT 1, Great Art topic ! I like the works by. Artist Andre Pace . published book : Contemporary & modern forums by.Andre pace(isbn:978-1-4931-0554-0). Www.GallArt.comWww.AskArt.com Thank you ..
Iโm not going to look at your spam, I bet itโs crap anyway ๐
Great Art topic ! I like the works by. Artist Andre Pace . published book : Contemporary & modern forums by.Andre pace(isbn:978-1-4931-0554-0). Www.GallArt.comWww.AskArt.com Thank you .. Iโm not going to look at your spam, I bet itโs crap anyway ๐
|
|