disturbart
New Member
Posts โข 742
Likes โข 294
September 2014
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Price of framing!!!!, by disturbart on Oct 20, 2017 21:54:55 GMT 1, Is it me, or is the price of conservation framing getting really expensive lately?
Is it me, or is the price of conservation framing getting really expensive lately?
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thisisit
New Member
Posts โข 284
Likes โข 182
January 2016
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Price of framing!!!!, by thisisit on Oct 20, 2017 22:25:43 GMT 1, i was quoted 400ยฃ for a print worth 900ยฃ.
its sad and expensive 
i was quoted 400ยฃ for a print worth 900ยฃ. its sad and expensive |
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iamzero
Full Member
Posts โข 9,190
Likes โข 8,541
May 2011
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Price of framing!!!!, by iamzero on Oct 20, 2017 22:29:23 GMT 1, You should see the price increase on materials for conservation framing. Iโve never been able to justify the jump between Conservation Clear and Museum. Same glass with an anti reflective coating.
You should see the price increase on materials for conservation framing. Iโve never been able to justify the jump between Conservation Clear and Museum. Same glass with an anti reflective coating.
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andyroo0312
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,174
Likes โข 1,675
July 2011
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Price of framing!!!!, by andyroo0312 on Oct 20, 2017 22:36:00 GMT 1, Its always been expensive. Plenty of cowboy/girls out there that will do it for a little less. Good framers are like good chefs,, hard to come by. P.S i will swap my great chefing skills for some top end conservative/museum standard framing if anyone has a 2ist, 35th, 50th, engagement, Hanukkah, Bar Mitzvah, wake or divorce party they wanted catered... 
Its always been expensive. Plenty of cowboy/girls out there that will do it for a little less. Good framers are like good chefs,, hard to come by. P.S i will swap my great chefing skills for some top end conservative/museum standard framing if anyone has a 2ist, 35th, 50th, engagement, Hanukkah, Bar Mitzvah, wake or divorce party they wanted catered... |
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Jaylove
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,596
Likes โข 1,073
November 2016
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Price of framing!!!!, by Jaylove on Oct 20, 2017 23:06:10 GMT 1, This is an expensive hobby, I'll tell you that. Oversized prints are the worst. The price really jump. Then add in the glass and type of framing and you can easily be pushed to turn tricks on the ave just to support your addiction
This is an expensive hobby, I'll tell you that. Oversized prints are the worst. The price really jump. Then add in the glass and type of framing and you can easily be pushed to turn tricks on the ave just to support your addiction
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Price of framing!!!!, by Rouen Cathedral on Oct 20, 2017 23:10:55 GMT 1, All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it.
Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy!
All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it.
Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy!
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iamzero
Full Member
Posts โข 9,190
Likes โข 8,541
May 2011
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Price of framing!!!!, by iamzero on Oct 20, 2017 23:12:48 GMT 1, All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy!
As with many things on this world you get what you pay for.
All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy! As with many things on this world you get what you pay for. |
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Jaylove
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,596
Likes โข 1,073
November 2016
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Price of framing!!!!, by Jaylove on Oct 20, 2017 23:43:17 GMT 1, All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy!
The thing is...that $300 piece may rise in value quite a bit in the future. Hell, there are pieces that originally sold for $50 that are now worth a hell of a lot more now.
All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy! The thing is...that $300 piece may rise in value quite a bit in the future. Hell, there are pieces that originally sold for $50 that are now worth a hell of a lot more now. |
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Price of framing!!!!, by Rouen Cathedral on Oct 20, 2017 23:58:53 GMT 1, All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy! The thing is...that $300 piece may rise in value quite a bit in the future. ย Hell, there are pieces that originally sold for $50 that are now worth a hell of a lot more now.
This is less likely to happen now a days. No one is really selling art for 50$ that will probably be 20k Iโm 15 years. Just isnโt the case anymore.
I get the sentiment but the likelihood of that is almost zero.
That said even heavily damaged banksys sell for a pretty price.
All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy! The thing is...that $300 piece may rise in value quite a bit in the future. ย Hell, there are pieces that originally sold for $50 that are now worth a hell of a lot more now. This is less likely to happen now a days. No one is really selling art for 50$ that will probably be 20k Iโm 15 years. Just isnโt the case anymore. I get the sentiment but the likelihood of that is almost zero. That said even heavily damaged banksys sell for a pretty price. |
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Jaylove
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,596
Likes โข 1,073
November 2016
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Price of framing!!!!, by Jaylove on Oct 21, 2017 0:15:54 GMT 1, The thing is...that $300 piece may rise in value quite a bit in the future. ย Hell, there are pieces that originally sold for $50 that are now worth a hell of a lot more now. This is less likely to happen now a days. No one is really selling art for 50$ that will probably be 20k Iโm 15 years. Just isnโt the case anymore. I get the sentiment but the likelihood of that is almost zero. That said even heavily damaged banksys sell for a pretty price.
I'm not talking about arbpirchased recently. I'm talljing about all those goodies purchased years ago sitting in tubes and sleeves.
The thing is...that $300 piece may rise in value quite a bit in the future. ย Hell, there are pieces that originally sold for $50 that are now worth a hell of a lot more now. This is less likely to happen now a days. No one is really selling art for 50$ that will probably be 20k Iโm 15 years. Just isnโt the case anymore. I get the sentiment but the likelihood of that is almost zero. That said even heavily damaged banksys sell for a pretty price. I'm not talking about arbpirchased recently. I'm talljing about all those goodies purchased years ago sitting in tubes and sleeves. |
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rjf76
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,481
Likes โข 2,626
January 2015
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Price of framing!!!!, by rjf76 on Oct 21, 2017 0:50:28 GMT 1, All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy!
I could frame the same Invader Space One piece, for example, for ยฃ50 or ยฃ300...I always frame to value perception, although never use less than UV glass. Most pieces recently are all museum.
All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy! The cost/value of print has no direct relationship to the cost of framing. Price purely come down to cost/quality of materials, complexity of framing job (floated/ multiple mounts/frame type) and experience of framer. I could frame the same Invader Space One piece, for example, for ยฃ50 or ยฃ300...I always frame to value perception, although never use less than UV glass. Most pieces recently are all museum. |
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sugar72
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,379
Likes โข 1,817
August 2016
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Price of framing!!!!, by sugar72 on Oct 21, 2017 6:44:52 GMT 1, All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy! The cost/value of print has no direct relationship to the cost of framing. Price purely come down to cost/quality of materials, complexity of framing job (floated/ multiple mounts/frame type) and experience of framer. I could frame the same Invader Space One piece, for example, for ยฃ50 or ยฃ300...I always frame to value perception, although never use less than UV glass. Most pieces recently are all museum.
100% agree, nothing to do with the cost of the print. All has to do with how much you personally value it and to whom you get to frame it. You do indeed get what you pay for.
All ways find it crazy when you have a $300 piece and they want over that to frame it. Iโm sure Iโll get some junk but I find paying that much is nuts for something really not worth that much. Put it in a cheaper frame and hang it to enjoy! The cost/value of print has no direct relationship to the cost of framing. Price purely come down to cost/quality of materials, complexity of framing job (floated/ multiple mounts/frame type) and experience of framer. I could frame the same Invader Space One piece, for example, for ยฃ50 or ยฃ300...I always frame to value perception, although never use less than UV glass. Most pieces recently are all museum. 100% agree, nothing to do with the cost of the print. All has to do with how much you personally value it and to whom you get to frame it. You do indeed get what you pay for. |
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yobaby
New Member
Posts โข 408
Likes โข 254
November 2016
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Price of framing!!!!, by yobaby on Oct 21, 2017 7:29:09 GMT 1, I'll never go "cheap" again. I'm done with seeing a corner join on pre moulded frames. This all factors in to what I buy these days as the framing costs as much as the print in most cases. Bottom line is that a high end frame transforms a piece and makes your other bog standard framed works look inferior.
Less impulse buys - more "grail" pieces
I'll never go "cheap" again. I'm done with seeing a corner join on pre moulded frames. This all factors in to what I buy these days as the framing costs as much as the print in most cases. Bottom line is that a high end frame transforms a piece and makes your other bog standard framed works look inferior. Less impulse buys - more "grail" pieces |
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gavatron
New Member
Posts โข 117
Likes โข 58
November 2012
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Price of framing!!!!, by gavatron on Oct 21, 2017 8:13:54 GMT 1, I saved a considerable amount (especially on oversized) by doing a lot of my framing in bulk. Buying the glass separately in large sheets and having it delivered to my local framers. Paid them for the edging, mountboard, floating and labour.
I think I used these fellas last time :
www.wessexpictures.com/glass_products.html
and just used my friendly neighbourhood framer
I saved a considerable amount (especially on oversized) by doing a lot of my framing in bulk. Buying the glass separately in large sheets and having it delivered to my local framers. Paid them for the edging, mountboard, floating and labour. I think I used these fellas last time : www.wessexpictures.com/glass_products.htmland just used my friendly neighbourhood framer |
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sugar72
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,379
Likes โข 1,817
August 2016
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Price of framing!!!!, by sugar72 on Oct 21, 2017 9:41:11 GMT 1, Again I never go cheap and for me a framer is a skilled business and in my mind personally, supplying below than average stock to them, for me, would be a little rude, but that is me but if it works for you and your framer is good with that then awesome. I use and will always use Mr frameman, I respect his skill and his staffs and wouldn't interrupt that.
Again I never go cheap and for me a framer is a skilled business and in my mind personally, supplying below than average stock to them, for me, would be a little rude, but that is me but if it works for you and your framer is good with that then awesome. I use and will always use Mr frameman, I respect his skill and his staffs and wouldn't interrupt that.
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iamzero
Full Member
Posts โข 9,190
Likes โข 8,541
May 2011
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Price of framing!!!!, by iamzero on Oct 21, 2017 9:53:46 GMT 1, Your framer would more than likely have an account with Wessex anyway, I buy my glass from them in packs of four lites.
Your framer would more than likely have an account with Wessex anyway, I buy my glass from them in packs of four lites.
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Price of framing!!!!, by John The Badgers on Oct 22, 2017 19:25:37 GMT 1, I think it is money well spent on decent framing? Have used Ezeframe etc in the past, and really it is what it is. To have something properly done, in a properly constructed frame really enhances the work, and the reassurance of the correct materials being used, I am certainly happy to pay the premium. Recommended MFM by a great forum member, and wouldn't think twice in the future.
I think it is money well spent on decent framing? Have used Ezeframe etc in the past, and really it is what it is. To have something properly done, in a properly constructed frame really enhances the work, and the reassurance of the correct materials being used, I am certainly happy to pay the premium. Recommended MFM by a great forum member, and wouldn't think twice in the future.
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iamzero
Full Member
Posts โข 9,190
Likes โข 8,541
May 2011
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Price of framing!!!!, by iamzero on Oct 23, 2017 20:04:09 GMT 1, I saved a considerable amount (especially on oversized) by doing a lot of my framing in bulk. Buying the glass separately in large sheets and having it delivered to my local framers. Paid them for the edging, mountboard, floating and labour. I think I used these fellas last time : www.wessexpictures.com/glass_products.htmland just used my friendly neighbourhood framer We use them, also John Jones, so in good company! makes you realise the huge mark up a local glazier makes on normal 2mm float.
Not something you really want to be saying out loud dude.
I saved a considerable amount (especially on oversized) by doing a lot of my framing in bulk. Buying the glass separately in large sheets and having it delivered to my local framers. Paid them for the edging, mountboard, floating and labour. I think I used these fellas last time : www.wessexpictures.com/glass_products.htmland just used my friendly neighbourhood framer We use them, also John Jones, so in good company! makes you realise the huge mark up a local glazier makes on normal 2mm float. Not something you really want to be saying out loud dude. |
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saintred88
New Member
Posts โข 217
Likes โข 87
October 2017
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Price of framing!!!!, by saintred88 on Oct 30, 2017 1:34:14 GMT 1, Hard to find good framers in Bay Area......Ive had framers spit on my art prints while trying to explain to me what frames would look better. Ive had framers take my art work off site to show to friends and family and caught them in the act. Ive had framers put smudges all over prints. Ive even had a framer when putting tape on the back of the print scratched the print side because he didn't see the small rough sand that was on his work bench.All in all I've had over 30k in prints and art works damaged by local framers.. The more you act like your print or picture is worth some value the more they will charge you. At the end of the day I've realized that taking expensive prints or pictures or even art to get framed at a local shop is the worst thing that I've ever done. I take ALLLL my prints, art and pictures to an art conservator who actually looks after your art with professionalism. Not all art conservators frame...but if you find one I would recommend them compared to your local framer. Im sure there are some good careful framers but yet to see one. It seems like If you look like someone with money they will charge you accordingly based on that....
(sorry for the grammar wrote this on my iPhone in the car)
Hard to find good framers in Bay Area......Ive had framers spit on my art prints while trying to explain to me what frames would look better. Ive had framers take my art work off site to show to friends and family and caught them in the act. Ive had framers put smudges all over prints. Ive even had a framer when putting tape on the back of the print scratched the print side because he didn't see the small rough sand that was on his work bench.All in all I've had over 30k in prints and art works damaged by local framers.. The more you act like your print or picture is worth some value the more they will charge you. At the end of the day I've realized that taking expensive prints or pictures or even art to get framed at a local shop is the worst thing that I've ever done. I take ALLLL my prints, art and pictures to an art conservator who actually looks after your art with professionalism. Not all art conservators frame...but if you find one I would recommend them compared to your local framer. Im sure there are some good careful framers but yet to see one. It seems like If you look like someone with money they will charge you accordingly based on that....
(sorry for the grammar wrote this on my iPhone in the car)
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mose
New Member
Posts โข 410
Likes โข 424
May 2017
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Price of framing!!!!, by mose on Oct 30, 2017 1:46:06 GMT 1, Personally, I've had horrible things done to work by local framers. From works looking like someone used it as a placemat for their lunch(probably) to opening a framed work to find the back of the print was covered in random tape marks and weird smudges.
It is a crap feeling having spent money only to ruin something you really like(and decrease its value in the process). The problems with framing have largely turned me off prints and works on paper(unless the come pre-framed from the gallery/artist).
Personally, I've had horrible things done to work by local framers. From works looking like someone used it as a placemat for their lunch(probably) to opening a framed work to find the back of the print was covered in random tape marks and weird smudges.
It is a crap feeling having spent money only to ruin something you really like(and decrease its value in the process). The problems with framing have largely turned me off prints and works on paper(unless the come pre-framed from the gallery/artist).
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saintred88
New Member
Posts โข 217
Likes โข 87
October 2017
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Price of framing!!!!, by saintred88 on Oct 30, 2017 4:51:03 GMT 1, Personally, I've had horrible things done to work by local framers. From works looking like someone used it as a placemat for their lunch(probably) to opening a framed work to find the back of the print was covered in random tape marks and weird smudges. It is a crap feeling having spent money only to ruin something you really like(and decrease its value in the process).ย The problems with framing have largely turned me off prints and works on paper(unless the come pre-framed from the gallery/artist).
I donโt even trust art galleryโs anymore. I just take mine to an art conservator that specializes in prints and papers and pay the little extra. Once the framers know your art is worth something there going to charge you super high prices anyways. I actually had a framer spit on one of my kaws pieces that I sold couple years back and he blamed that it was me. Lol.
Personally, I've had horrible things done to work by local framers. From works looking like someone used it as a placemat for their lunch(probably) to opening a framed work to find the back of the print was covered in random tape marks and weird smudges. It is a crap feeling having spent money only to ruin something you really like(and decrease its value in the process).ย The problems with framing have largely turned me off prints and works on paper(unless the come pre-framed from the gallery/artist). I donโt even trust art galleryโs anymore. I just take mine to an art conservator that specializes in prints and papers and pay the little extra. Once the framers know your art is worth something there going to charge you super high prices anyways. I actually had a framer spit on one of my kaws pieces that I sold couple years back and he blamed that it was me. Lol. |
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mose
New Member
Posts โข 410
Likes โข 424
May 2017
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Price of framing!!!!, by mose on Oct 30, 2017 5:10:21 GMT 1, Personally, I've had horrible things done to work by local framers. From works looking like someone used it as a placemat for their lunch(probably) to opening a framed work to find the back of the print was covered in random tape marks and weird smudges. It is a crap feeling having spent money only to ruin something you really like(and decrease its value in the process). The problems with framing have largely turned me off prints and works on paper(unless the come pre-framed from the gallery/artist). I donโt even trust art galleryโs anymore. I just take mine to an art conservator that specializes in prints and papers and pay the little extra. Once the framers know your art is worth something there going to charge you super high prices anyways. I actually had a framer spit on one of my kaws pieces that I sold couple years back and he blamed that it was me. Lol.
For me, and I don't know if this is logical, I've always considered a work framed from gallery or artist as 'as issued'. The framing is 'right', as that is what the artist/gallery intended and the paperwork from the gallery shows it was sold already framed.
May not end up being logical, but for now it helps me sleep at night. Lol.
Personally, I've had horrible things done to work by local framers. From works looking like someone used it as a placemat for their lunch(probably) to opening a framed work to find the back of the print was covered in random tape marks and weird smudges. It is a crap feeling having spent money only to ruin something you really like(and decrease its value in the process). The problems with framing have largely turned me off prints and works on paper(unless the come pre-framed from the gallery/artist). I donโt even trust art galleryโs anymore. I just take mine to an art conservator that specializes in prints and papers and pay the little extra. Once the framers know your art is worth something there going to charge you super high prices anyways. I actually had a framer spit on one of my kaws pieces that I sold couple years back and he blamed that it was me. Lol. For me, and I don't know if this is logical, I've always considered a work framed from gallery or artist as 'as issued'. The framing is 'right', as that is what the artist/gallery intended and the paperwork from the gallery shows it was sold already framed. May not end up being logical, but for now it helps me sleep at night. Lol. |
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,675
Likes โข 6,276
June 2009
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Price of framing!!!!, by met on Oct 30, 2017 9:17:54 GMT 1, I donโt even trust art galleryโs anymore. I just take mine to an art conservator that specializes in prints and papers and pay the little extra. Once the framers know your art is worth something there going to charge you super high prices anyways. I actually had a framer spit on one of my kaws pieces that I sold couple years back and he blamed that it was me. Lol. For me, and I don't know if this is logical, I've always considered a work framed from gallery or artist as 'as issued'. The framing is 'right', as that is what the artist/gallery intended and the paperwork from the gallery shows it was sold already framed. May not end up being logical, but for now it helps me sleep at night. Lol.
The above position is reasonable but also merits qualification.
What I've found is that many galleries regularly cut corners and make real compromises on framing.
This is to keep their own costs down, to make the art more financially attractive to buyers (many of whom will be relatively ignorant when it comes to framing), and because galleries know framing tastes are so personal that a percentage of buyers will always reframe anyway.
It's one reason you'll often encounter the ridiculous scenario (at least to my mind) of expensive pieces displayed behind regular glass. When these are then shown in brightly-lit venues like art fairs, viewers can end up seeing their own reflections โ and everything else behind them โ just as much as the art itself. For an art enthusiast, it's irritating. And for an art photographer, it's infuriating.
______________
If money were of no concern to galleries and artists, I believe the framing choices they'd make would in many cases be different. Especially from an archival perspective, and for works that don't fall within the high-end category.
So it is arguable that a better-quality framing job could also be "right" where the artist or gallery is likely to have made a similar choice if they'd been financially freer to do so.
I donโt even trust art galleryโs anymore. I just take mine to an art conservator that specializes in prints and papers and pay the little extra. Once the framers know your art is worth something there going to charge you super high prices anyways. I actually had a framer spit on one of my kaws pieces that I sold couple years back and he blamed that it was me. Lol. For me, and I don't know if this is logical, I've always considered a work framed from gallery or artist as 'as issued'. The framing is 'right', as that is what the artist/gallery intended and the paperwork from the gallery shows it was sold already framed. May not end up being logical, but for now it helps me sleep at night. Lol. The above position is reasonable but also merits qualification. What I've found is that many galleries regularly cut corners and make real compromises on framing. This is to keep their own costs down, to make the art more financially attractive to buyers (many of whom will be relatively ignorant when it comes to framing), and because galleries know framing tastes are so personal that a percentage of buyers will always reframe anyway. It's one reason you'll often encounter the ridiculous scenario (at least to my mind) of expensive pieces displayed behind regular glass. When these are then shown in brightly-lit venues like art fairs, viewers can end up seeing their own reflections โ and everything else behind them โ just as much as the art itself. For an art enthusiast, it's irritating. And for an art photographer, it's infuriating. ______________ If money were of no concern to galleries and artists, I believe the framing choices they'd make would in many cases be different. Especially from an archival perspective, and for works that don't fall within the high-end category. So it is arguable that a better-quality framing job could also be "right" where the artist or gallery is likely to have made a similar choice if they'd been financially freer to do so. |
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iamzero
Full Member
Posts โข 9,190
Likes โข 8,541
May 2011
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Price of framing!!!!, by iamzero on Oct 30, 2017 9:21:46 GMT 1, Iโd take a guess that stuff is framed as cheap as possible for galleries as the frames can take some bashing when moving from show to show.
Iโd take a guess that stuff is framed as cheap as possible for galleries as the frames can take some bashing when moving from show to show.
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purpleandred
New Member
Posts โข 274
Likes โข 231
September 2017
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Price of framing!!!!, by purpleandred on Oct 30, 2017 11:53:01 GMT 1, For me personally the most important thing is UV protective glass. I've read people moaning about tape on the back of prints which is laughable. Japanese hinging is preferable but not a deal breaker as there is some excellent double sided tape out there which will not ruin your print. At the end of the day you wouldn't remove a Japanese hinge so why moan about archival tape? Who looks at the back of a print anway?!?! it all gets a little too "spoddy" for me.. If it's a mint print you're after then keep it in a flat file forever or frame using a mount with plastic mylar corners.
For me personally the most important thing is UV protective glass. I've read people moaning about tape on the back of prints which is laughable. Japanese hinging is preferable but not a deal breaker as there is some excellent double sided tape out there which will not ruin your print. At the end of the day you wouldn't remove a Japanese hinge so why moan about archival tape? Who looks at the back of a print anway?!?! it all gets a little too "spoddy" for me.. If it's a mint print you're after then keep it in a flat file forever or frame using a mount with plastic mylar corners.
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loother
New Member
Posts โข 467
Likes โข 590
October 2014
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Price of framing!!!!, by loother on Oct 30, 2017 12:23:42 GMT 1, I bought a framed watercolour on paper from a gallery once. As it was on my wall and I saw it every day, it took me a while to realise it was fading. Eventually the effect was obvious and undeniable. I was really annoyed the original gallery used standard glass to frame it and didn't warn me what would happen unless it was reglazed, and I'm sad about the depth of colour that isn't there any more. But MFM reframed it a couple of years back and now it has museum glass and looks ace.
I bought a framed watercolour on paper from a gallery once. As it was on my wall and I saw it every day, it took me a while to realise it was fading. Eventually the effect was obvious and undeniable. I was really annoyed the original gallery used standard glass to frame it and didn't warn me what would happen unless it was reglazed, and I'm sad about the depth of colour that isn't there any more. But MFM reframed it a couple of years back and now it has museum glass and looks ace.
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chr1s
New Member
Posts โข 130
Likes โข 300
February 2011
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Price of framing!!!!, by chr1s on Oct 30, 2017 18:23:36 GMT 1, For me personally the most important thing is UV protective glass. I've read people moaning about tape on the back of prints which is laughable. Japanese hinging is preferable but not a deal breaker as there is some excellent double sided tape out there which will not ruin your print. At the end of the day you wouldn't remove a Japanese hinge so why moan about archival tape? Who looks at the back of a print anway?!?! it all gets a little too "spoddy" for me.. If it's a mint print you're after then keep it in a flat file forever or frame using a mount with plastic mylar corners.
I made the video above to show just how easy it is to remove a Japanese hinge. I am using a Q-tip that is damp with distilled water. I rub the damp Q-tip over the Japanese mulberry paper that was previously adhered to a print with wheat paste. The distilled water almost instantly breaks the bond (wheat paste is water based). Once I have removed the mulberry paper hinge I use blotter paper to absorb any residual moisture. And as you can see there is absolutely no damage to the back of the print and no evidence that it had every been hinged.
Read more: urbanartassociation.com/thread/39266/best-tape-use-framing?page=2#ixzz4x0sW44Bg
For me personally the most important thing is UV protective glass. I've read people moaning about tape on the back of prints which is laughable. Japanese hinging is preferable but not a deal breaker as there is some excellent double sided tape out there which will not ruin your print. At the end of the day you wouldn't remove a Japanese hinge so why moan about archival tape? Who looks at the back of a print anway?!?! it all gets a little too "spoddy" for me.. If it's a mint print you're after then keep it in a flat file forever or frame using a mount with plastic mylar corners. The adhesive used on tapes can cause damage to the prints as well. So the tape is just as important as the glazing. And when you reframe a print with Japanese Hinging paper you do in fact remove the tape. And the beauty of wheat paste and mulberry paper is how easy it is to remove without damaging the paper. I made the video above to show just how easy it is to remove a Japanese hinge. I am using a Q-tip that is damp with distilled water. I rub the damp Q-tip over the Japanese mulberry paper that was previously adhered to a print with wheat paste. The distilled water almost instantly breaks the bond (wheat paste is water based). Once I have removed the mulberry paper hinge I use blotter paper to absorb any residual moisture. And as you can see there is absolutely no damage to the back of the print and no evidence that it had every been hinged. Read more: urbanartassociation.com/thread/39266/best-tape-use-framing?page=2#ixzz4x0sW44Bg |
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lee3
New Member
Posts โข 832
Likes โข 1,289
November 2009
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Price of framing!!!!, by lee3 on Oct 30, 2017 19:12:24 GMT 1, For me, and I don't know if this is logical, I've always considered a work framed from gallery or artist as 'as issued'. The framing is 'right', as that is what the artist/gallery intended and the paperwork from the gallery shows it was sold already framed. May not end up being logical, but for now it helps me sleep at night. Lol. The above position is reasonable but also merits qualification. What I've found is that many galleries regularly cut corners and make real compromises on framing. This is to keep their own costs down, to make the art more financially attractive to buyers (many of whom will be relatively ignorant when it comes to framing), and because galleries know framing tastes are so personal that a percentage of buyers will always reframe anyway. It's one reason you'll often encounter the ridiculous scenario (at least to my mind) of expensive pieces displayed behind regular glass. When these are then shown in brightly-lit venues like art fairs, viewers can end up seeing their own reflections โ and everything else behind them โ just as much as the art itself. For an art enthusiast, it's irritating. And for an art photographer, it's infuriating. ______________ If money were of no concern to galleries and artists, I believe the framing choices they'd make would in many cases be different. Especially from an archival perspective, and for works that don't fall within the high-end category. So it is arguable that a better-quality framing job could also be "right" where the artist or gallery is likely to have made a similar choice if they'd been financially freer to do so.
Before the Picasso museum in Paris had its most recent renovation, all of the canvases were there uncovered which made connecting with the works delightful and one could walk among the sculptures in the garden though touching was frowned upon save for certain tours. Fast forward 20 years and the garden is gone, the sculptures inside and most of the work is behind plexi now to preserve for generations to come. It's not an improvement to my eyes but I understand the reasoning as the value has increased exponentially.
For me, and I don't know if this is logical, I've always considered a work framed from gallery or artist as 'as issued'. The framing is 'right', as that is what the artist/gallery intended and the paperwork from the gallery shows it was sold already framed. May not end up being logical, but for now it helps me sleep at night. Lol. The above position is reasonable but also merits qualification. What I've found is that many galleries regularly cut corners and make real compromises on framing. This is to keep their own costs down, to make the art more financially attractive to buyers (many of whom will be relatively ignorant when it comes to framing), and because galleries know framing tastes are so personal that a percentage of buyers will always reframe anyway. It's one reason you'll often encounter the ridiculous scenario (at least to my mind) of expensive pieces displayed behind regular glass. When these are then shown in brightly-lit venues like art fairs, viewers can end up seeing their own reflections โ and everything else behind them โ just as much as the art itself. For an art enthusiast, it's irritating. And for an art photographer, it's infuriating. ______________ If money were of no concern to galleries and artists, I believe the framing choices they'd make would in many cases be different. Especially from an archival perspective, and for works that don't fall within the high-end category. So it is arguable that a better-quality framing job could also be "right" where the artist or gallery is likely to have made a similar choice if they'd been financially freer to do so. I have no problem swapping out glass in those instances. If the COA reads framed by the artist, then leave the frame as is. Similarly, I have stuff purchased through Gagosian that was "framed by the artist" (late career artist) and like you, I loathe reflections. I take those to the framer and swap out the plexi in favor of museum glass and it's still framed by the artist (at least to me) and merely improved upon by the collector for their own and others enjoyment. Even when galleries and artist alike are free to do whatever they want, it's not necessarily best for viewing but rather protection of the art work. UV plex is never going to shatter which is in the art's best interest from one point of view (protection) but it's awful for my enjoyment compared with museum glass. One man's trash I guess. Before the Picasso museum in Paris had its most recent renovation, all of the canvases were there uncovered which made connecting with the works delightful and one could walk among the sculptures in the garden though touching was frowned upon save for certain tours. Fast forward 20 years and the garden is gone, the sculptures inside and most of the work is behind plexi now to preserve for generations to come. It's not an improvement to my eyes but I understand the reasoning as the value has increased exponentially. |
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,675
Likes โข 6,276
June 2009
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Price of framing!!!!, by met on Oct 30, 2017 19:18:40 GMT 1, The above position is reasonable but also merits qualification. What I've found is that many galleries regularly cut corners and make real compromises on framing. This is to keep their own costs down, to make the art more financially attractive to buyers (many of whom will be relatively ignorant when it comes to framing), and because galleries know framing tastes are so personal that a percentage of buyers will always reframe anyway. It's one reason you'll often encounter the ridiculous scenario (at least to my mind) of expensive pieces displayed behind regular glass. When these are then shown in brightly-lit venues like art fairs, viewers can end up seeing their own reflections โ and everything else behind them โ just as much as the art itself. For an art enthusiast, it's irritating. And for an art photographer, it's infuriating. ______________ If money were of no concern to galleries and artists, I believe the framing choices they'd make would in many cases be different. Especially from an archival perspective, and for works that don't fall within the high-end category. So it is arguable that a better-quality framing job could also be "right" where the artist or gallery is likely to have made a similar choice if they'd been financially freer to do so. I have no problem swapping out glass in those instances. If the COA reads framed by the artist, then leave the frame as is. Similarly, I have stuff purchased through Gagosian that was "framed by the artist" (late career artist) and like you, I loathe reflections. I take those to the framer and swap out the plexi in favor of museum glass and it's still framed by the artist (at least to me) and merely improved upon by the collector for their own and others enjoyment. Even when galleries and artist alike are free to do whatever they want, it's not necessarily best for viewing but rather protection of the art work. UV plex is never going to shatter which is in the art's best interest from one point of view (protection) but it's awful for my enjoyment compared with museum glass. One man's trash I guess.
The best of both worlds may be Tru Vue Optium Museum Acrylic:
tru-vue.com/solution/optium-museum-acrylic/
The above position is reasonable but also merits qualification. What I've found is that many galleries regularly cut corners and make real compromises on framing. This is to keep their own costs down, to make the art more financially attractive to buyers (many of whom will be relatively ignorant when it comes to framing), and because galleries know framing tastes are so personal that a percentage of buyers will always reframe anyway. It's one reason you'll often encounter the ridiculous scenario (at least to my mind) of expensive pieces displayed behind regular glass. When these are then shown in brightly-lit venues like art fairs, viewers can end up seeing their own reflections โ and everything else behind them โ just as much as the art itself. For an art enthusiast, it's irritating. And for an art photographer, it's infuriating. ______________ If money were of no concern to galleries and artists, I believe the framing choices they'd make would in many cases be different. Especially from an archival perspective, and for works that don't fall within the high-end category. So it is arguable that a better-quality framing job could also be "right" where the artist or gallery is likely to have made a similar choice if they'd been financially freer to do so. I have no problem swapping out glass in those instances. If the COA reads framed by the artist, then leave the frame as is. Similarly, I have stuff purchased through Gagosian that was "framed by the artist" (late career artist) and like you, I loathe reflections. I take those to the framer and swap out the plexi in favor of museum glass and it's still framed by the artist (at least to me) and merely improved upon by the collector for their own and others enjoyment. Even when galleries and artist alike are free to do whatever they want, it's not necessarily best for viewing but rather protection of the art work. UV plex is never going to shatter which is in the art's best interest from one point of view (protection) but it's awful for my enjoyment compared with museum glass. One man's trash I guess. The best of both worlds may be Tru Vue Optium Museum Acrylic: tru-vue.com/solution/optium-museum-acrylic/ |
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purpleandred
New Member
Posts โข 274
Likes โข 231
September 2017
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Price of framing!!!!, by purpleandred on Oct 31, 2017 11:59:14 GMT 1, chr1s
Excellent video, thanks for the upload, very informative indeed. I'm going to have to query Darbyshire on that one as they've stated that the Japanese hinge isn't meant to be removed. Maybe they're alluding to the fact that seeing as it's non destructive there's little point in doing so. This is why conservation tape on the back of a print doesn't bother me, especially on good heavy stock paper.
chr1sExcellent video, thanks for the upload, very informative indeed. I'm going to have to query Darbyshire on that one as they've stated that the Japanese hinge isn't meant to be removed. Maybe they're alluding to the fact that seeing as it's non destructive there's little point in doing so. This is why conservation tape on the back of a print doesn't bother me, especially on good heavy stock paper.
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