Neate Michael
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,008
Likes โข 321
September 2007
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Neate Michael on Nov 9, 2011 10:32:03 GMT 1, I know I keep banging on about it (and for that I apologise). But I am genuinely curious to see if board members would prefer an unlimited, unsigned print release or a limited (say 500 copies) signed print release (and there are 2 options, the queue, or the online lottery).
The last Banksy I scored at source, was the Colour Trolleys. I love it, it is framed. Would not sell it.
But I have also loved all the print releases since then (with the exception of Donuts, which I thought was quite weak) and would love the images on my wall.
His signature matters not a jot to me (doubtful he signed my colour trolleys himself, given you can see the white outline for one of his lackeys to go over with pencil). And it would be an "official" release rather than a copy.
In addition, the chosen charity would make lots more money, and the flippers and thugs would lose out.
In my mind it is a win win. I cannot see a downside. I cannot understand the counter arguement...
But, I think I am in the minority, so please vote, and feel free to leave a comment especially if you would prefer the signed limited release, which odds are, you will miss out on....
I did not add a fastest finger signed web release as POW have stated that this will not happen (a few years back).
I know I keep banging on about it (and for that I apologise). But I am genuinely curious to see if board members would prefer an unlimited, unsigned print release or a limited (say 500 copies) signed print release (and there are 2 options, the queue, or the online lottery).
The last Banksy I scored at source, was the Colour Trolleys. I love it, it is framed. Would not sell it.
But I have also loved all the print releases since then (with the exception of Donuts, which I thought was quite weak) and would love the images on my wall.
His signature matters not a jot to me (doubtful he signed my colour trolleys himself, given you can see the white outline for one of his lackeys to go over with pencil). And it would be an "official" release rather than a copy.
In addition, the chosen charity would make lots more money, and the flippers and thugs would lose out.
In my mind it is a win win. I cannot see a downside. I cannot understand the counter arguement...
But, I think I am in the minority, so please vote, and feel free to leave a comment especially if you would prefer the signed limited release, which odds are, you will miss out on....
I did not add a fastest finger signed web release as POW have stated that this will not happen (a few years back).
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Karl Read
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,554
Likes โข 628
April 2008
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Karl Read on Nov 9, 2011 10:52:14 GMT 1, Dont get the timed release thing for Banksy. If you want one of his images, just pick up one of the posters like the tesco petrol bomb or monkey parliment. (or dare i say it, an ebay screen prince fake)
Personally, im down for a signed limited edition, if i get one great, if i dont, there is always next year. You win some, you loose some.
Dont get the timed release thing for Banksy. If you want one of his images, just pick up one of the posters like the tesco petrol bomb or monkey parliment. (or dare i say it, an ebay screen prince fake)
Personally, im down for a signed limited edition, if i get one great, if i dont, there is always next year. You win some, you loose some.
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Cedric Mnich
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
Likes โข 98
June 2009
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Cedric Mnich on Nov 9, 2011 11:18:18 GMT 1, a queue type means it's only a brit thing... banksy has worldwide fans.
a queue type means it's only a brit thing... banksy has worldwide fans.
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Neate Michael
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,008
Likes โข 321
September 2007
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Neate Michael on Nov 9, 2011 11:30:43 GMT 1, Dont get the timed release thing for Banksy. If you want one of his images, just pick up one of the posters like the tesco petrol bomb or monkey parliment. (or dare i say it, an ebay screen prince fake) Personally, im down for a signed limited edition, if i get one great, if i dont, there is always next year. You win some, you loose some.
Got the Monkey Parliament, quality is shit, would never make my wall....
West Country Prince fakes are just that fake...
I respect your stance, but not many of us seem to win in the lottery, and at least we could all get one with a timed release.
Dont get the timed release thing for Banksy. If you want one of his images, just pick up one of the posters like the tesco petrol bomb or monkey parliment. (or dare i say it, an ebay screen prince fake) Personally, im down for a signed limited edition, if i get one great, if i dont, there is always next year. You win some, you loose some. Got the Monkey Parliament, quality is shit, would never make my wall.... West Country Prince fakes are just that fake... I respect your stance, but not many of us seem to win in the lottery, and at least we could all get one with a timed release. |
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gironawatch
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,197
Likes โข 94
August 2007
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by gironawatch on Nov 9, 2011 11:31:20 GMT 1, the best will be a unsigned open ed at ยฃ700 to ยฃ900
the best will be a unsigned open ed at ยฃ700 to ยฃ900
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Karl Read
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,554
Likes โข 628
April 2008
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Karl Read on Nov 9, 2011 11:39:35 GMT 1, the best will be a unsigned open ed at ยฃ700 to ยฃ900
Why would you spend 700-900 quid on an open edition when you can get an unsigned limited edition on the secondary market for that?
the best will be a unsigned open ed at ยฃ700 to ยฃ900 Why would you spend 700-900 quid on an open edition when you can get an unsigned limited edition on the secondary market for that? |
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Neate Michael
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,008
Likes โข 321
September 2007
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Neate Michael on Nov 9, 2011 11:49:15 GMT 1, the best will be a unsigned open ed at ยฃ700 to ยฃ900 Why would you spend 700-900 quid on an open edition when you can get an unsigned limited edition on the secondary market for that?
Agreed. In my mind the timed unsigned release would be around ยฃ100-ยฃ150. No more than that...
the best will be a unsigned open ed at ยฃ700 to ยฃ900 Why would you spend 700-900 quid on an open edition when you can get an unsigned limited edition on the secondary market for that? Agreed. In my mind the timed unsigned release would be around ยฃ100-ยฃ150. No more than that... |
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by saint on Nov 9, 2011 11:50:43 GMT 1, Whats wrong with Donuts? weak? i prefer it massively to VLH which looks unfinished, rushed and the size is silly.
As Karl says, you win some you lose some, signed release and a queue is best IMO. I like the way CYW was released, some at the shop and some online.....
PS, Cedric, who says a release with a queue will happen in the UK this year?? watch this space imo...
Whats wrong with Donuts? weak? i prefer it massively to VLH which looks unfinished, rushed and the size is silly.
As Karl says, you win some you lose some, signed release and a queue is best IMO. I like the way CYW was released, some at the shop and some online.....
PS, Cedric, who says a release with a queue will happen in the UK this year?? watch this space imo...
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Cedric Mnich
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
Likes โข 98
June 2009
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Cedric Mnich on Nov 9, 2011 11:54:13 GMT 1, oh, meaning a forum queue ? I assumed people talked about a POW queue again. That would be cool, allowing people getting a virtual queue ticket...
But I fear it's only wishes...
oh, meaning a forum queue ? I assumed people talked about a POW queue again. That would be cool, allowing people getting a virtual queue ticket...
But I fear it's only wishes...
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by saint on Nov 9, 2011 11:58:15 GMT 1, No, I mean a queue in a different country!
No, I mean a queue in a different country!
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Neate Michael
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,008
Likes โข 321
September 2007
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Neate Michael on Nov 9, 2011 12:03:43 GMT 1, I liked that when they went to Palestine. No probs with that...
Although Stop and Search was also released on the website, fastest fingers style.
I liked that when they went to Palestine. No probs with that...
Although Stop and Search was also released on the website, fastest fingers style.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 12:13:24 GMT 1, No, I mean a queue in a different country!
Oz , that would sort the men from the boys!
No, I mean a queue in a different country! Oz , that would sort the men from the boys! |
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pidge
New Member
FourCorners
Posts โข 908
Likes โข 798
May 2011
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by pidge on Nov 9, 2011 12:47:54 GMT 1, For those of you that queue every year, if it is run correctly, which is not hard, the process can be a real laugh, you have to be in it to win it!!!! When that print is put in your hand there is a great sense of achievement and relief. A number held back for overseas buyers and the same for a bit of lottery madness and the rest of us in the mix. I for one really look forward to the buzz of the queue, really adds to the experience. I look at them framed on the wall and I have a story to go with it that is different every year. Ok last years story was more like fight club but still wouldn't change it! Met some really good people off the back of the print queues.
For those of you that queue every year, if it is run correctly, which is not hard, the process can be a real laugh, you have to be in it to win it!!!! When that print is put in your hand there is a great sense of achievement and relief. A number held back for overseas buyers and the same for a bit of lottery madness and the rest of us in the mix. I for one really look forward to the buzz of the queue, really adds to the experience. I look at them framed on the wall and I have a story to go with it that is different every year. Ok last years story was more like fight club but still wouldn't change it! Met some really good people off the back of the print queues.
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by saint on Nov 9, 2011 12:49:27 GMT 1, I'd be happy with Oz as it goes, could pop in to see the missus family whilst there.... singapore airlines in a suite for 10k one way, thats how i roll.
I'd be happy with Oz as it goes, could pop in to see the missus family whilst there.... singapore airlines in a suite for 10k one way, thats how i roll.
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pidge
New Member
FourCorners
Posts โข 908
Likes โข 798
May 2011
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by pidge on Nov 9, 2011 12:52:10 GMT 1, Banksy Q + Barbecue sounds good to me!
Banksy Q + Barbecue sounds good to me!
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bigtlt
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,644
Likes โข 737
July 2009
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by bigtlt on Nov 9, 2011 12:57:07 GMT 1, For those of you that queue every year, if it is run correctly, which is not hard, the process can be a real laugh, you have to be in it to win it!!!! When that print is put in your hand there is a great sense of achievement and relief. A number held back for overseas buyers and the same for a bit of lottery madness and the rest of us in the mix. I for one really look forward to the buzz of the queue, really adds to the experience. I look at them framed on the wall and I have a story to go with it that is different every year. Ok last years story was more like fight club but still wouldn't change it! Met some really good people off the back of the print queues.
Fully agree with everything you've said, but why not move that queue to another city, at the minute it only benefits those living in London, they've shown the queue can be moved with the pop-up shop last year.
Why not do a pop-up shop in Manchester/Birmingham/Leeds/anywhere or even more than one pop-up with a certain number of prints available at each shop.
Give us northerners a chance  
For those of you that queue every year, if it is run correctly, which is not hard, the process can be a real laugh, you have to be in it to win it!!!! When that print is put in your hand there is a great sense of achievement and relief. A number held back for overseas buyers and the same for a bit of lottery madness and the rest of us in the mix. I for one really look forward to the buzz of the queue, really adds to the experience. I look at them framed on the wall and I have a story to go with it that is different every year. Ok last years story was more like fight club but still wouldn't change it! Met some really good people off the back of the print queues. Fully agree with everything you've said, but why not move that queue to another city, at the minute it only benefits those living in London, they've shown the queue can be moved with the pop-up shop last year. Why not do a pop-up shop in Manchester/Birmingham/Leeds/anywhere or even more than one pop-up with a certain number of prints available at each shop. Give us northerners a chance |
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by des77 on Nov 9, 2011 12:59:29 GMT 1, a queue type means it's only a brit thing... banksy has worldwide fans.
meh... never seems to bother Kaws or Murakami. Plus if you live in France, you are actually closer to London than most people that live in the UK.
a queue type means it's only a brit thing... banksy has worldwide fans. meh... never seems to bother Kaws or Murakami. Plus if you live in France, you are actually closer to London than most people that live in the UK. |
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by saint on Nov 9, 2011 14:16:13 GMT 1, moan moan moan.
How local was Love? he made it over from germany and picked up a CYW. If you want it, and you're prepared to travel, you can make it. So per-lease lets get over the 'its so unfair its in london' thing. I'd love a Keyes original but until he shows in the UK i realise theres no chance.
Banksy releases are as fun as ever, just those who dont get one always complain about how unfair it is and how the system doesnt work, thats the non fun part. Damed if you do, damed if you dont old POW.
I've also heard there might not be a release this year, so there you go, sorted for ya, that really will be a non event eh.
moan moan moan.
How local was Love? he made it over from germany and picked up a CYW. If you want it, and you're prepared to travel, you can make it. So per-lease lets get over the 'its so unfair its in london' thing. I'd love a Keyes original but until he shows in the UK i realise theres no chance.
Banksy releases are as fun as ever, just those who dont get one always complain about how unfair it is and how the system doesnt work, thats the non fun part. Damed if you do, damed if you dont old POW.
I've also heard there might not be a release this year, so there you go, sorted for ya, that really will be a non event eh.
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by hunter007 on Nov 9, 2011 14:34:35 GMT 1, Sooooooo boring,,, its not fair wahhhh wahhh wahhhhhh , why cant Banksy sell the prints from the local shop at the end of my road, its all well andf good for you londerners, what about me and my needs to have a signed Banksy on my wall , i feel i have the right to own his work as i like it and i would never ever ever ever sell it id rather sell my house first, . Its all just so unfair,
Jeeeez
Sooooooo boring,,, its not fair wahhhh wahhh wahhhhhh , why cant Banksy sell the prints from the local shop at the end of my road, its all well andf good for you londerners, what about me and my needs to have a signed Banksy on my wall , i feel i have the right to own his work as i like it and i would never ever ever ever sell it id rather sell my house first, . Its all just so unfair,
Jeeeez
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by saint on Nov 9, 2011 14:34:56 GMT 1, moan moan moan. How local was Love? he made it over from germany and picked up a CYW. If you want it, and you're prepared to travel, you can make it. So per-lease lets get over the 'its so unfair its in london' thing. I'd love a Keyes original but until he shows in the UK i realise theres no chance. Banksy releases are as fun as ever, just those who dont get one always complain about how unfair it is and how the system doesnt work, thats the non fun part. Damed if you do, damed if you dont old POW. I've also heard there might not be a release this year, so there you go, sorted for ya, that really will be a non event eh. Damn right I'll moan. ;D Whether someone travelled around the world to queue is neither here nor there. It's not for me to pass judgement on the individual. But what I will say is some of us haven't the time to travel to London on a whim. Last time people queued without even knowning if it was going to be released. The only folks who say this is a fair system are those who live locally. And if you think these releases are fun then you've clearly not experienced buying Banksy's the old skool way.  This place used to be buzzing. No pitbuls, no gangs, just people from all over the world trying their luck for a print. Everyone with equal chance. No system is ideal but it is by far the fairest.
Sorry but the 'old skool' way was to pop in to the shop and have a cup of tea whilst you decide to buy signed or unsigned, go back a week later and then have another cup of tea, foolishly decide to buy unsigned and then blue tack it to you wall, hardly fun imo. People from all over the world trying their luck for a print doesnt sound too old skool to me tbh, sounds more like fastest finger first which isnt as old skool as you think....
moan moan moan. How local was Love? he made it over from germany and picked up a CYW. If you want it, and you're prepared to travel, you can make it. So per-lease lets get over the 'its so unfair its in london' thing. I'd love a Keyes original but until he shows in the UK i realise theres no chance. Banksy releases are as fun as ever, just those who dont get one always complain about how unfair it is and how the system doesnt work, thats the non fun part. Damed if you do, damed if you dont old POW. I've also heard there might not be a release this year, so there you go, sorted for ya, that really will be a non event eh. Damn right I'll moan. ;D Whether someone travelled around the world to queue is neither here nor there. It's not for me to pass judgement on the individual. But what I will say is some of us haven't the time to travel to London on a whim. Last time people queued without even knowning if it was going to be released. The only folks who say this is a fair system are those who live locally. And if you think these releases are fun then you've clearly not experienced buying Banksy's the old skool way. This place used to be buzzing. No pitbuls, no gangs, just people from all over the world trying their luck for a print. Everyone with equal chance. No system is ideal but it is by far the fairest. Sorry but the 'old skool' way was to pop in to the shop and have a cup of tea whilst you decide to buy signed or unsigned, go back a week later and then have another cup of tea, foolishly decide to buy unsigned and then blue tack it to you wall, hardly fun imo. People from all over the world trying their luck for a print doesnt sound too old skool to me tbh, sounds more like fastest finger first which isnt as old skool as you think.... |
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by hunter007 on Nov 9, 2011 14:51:36 GMT 1, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander,"
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander,"
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Cedric Mnich
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
Likes โข 98
June 2009
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Cedric Mnich on Nov 9, 2011 14:57:39 GMT 1, Today at 11:18am, Cedric Mnich wrote:
a queue type means it's only a brit thing... banksy has worldwide fans.
meh... never seems to bother Kaws or Murakami. Plus if you live in France, you are actually closer to London than most people that live in the UK.
I do Live in France and indeed I would not take a day off or two just to buy a print (not even mentioning the fact of queuieing for nothing like some did last year). Actually, no artist would have me move my ass abroad for a mere print, as close as Paris can be from any european town... Though I enjoy Banksy's work I am not a dedicated fan, that may explain why (and of course I own no print of him :-).
I think a first come first served reservation by email could absolutely work without that queueing stuff or F5 killer key :-) There were not that many prints released for CYW and people abroad could (for most of them) buy CYW only online from ebay at crazy prices... Unless I am mistaken ?
Today at 11:18am, Cedric Mnich wrote:
a queue type means it's only a brit thing... banksy has worldwide fans.
meh... never seems to bother Kaws or Murakami. Plus if you live in France, you are actually closer to London than most people that live in the UK.
I do Live in France and indeed I would not take a day off or two just to buy a print (not even mentioning the fact of queuieing for nothing like some did last year). Actually, no artist would have me move my ass abroad for a mere print, as close as Paris can be from any european town... Though I enjoy Banksy's work I am not a dedicated fan, that may explain why (and of course I own no print of him :-).
I think a first come first served reservation by email could absolutely work without that queueing stuff or F5 killer key :-) There were not that many prints released for CYW and people abroad could (for most of them) buy CYW only online from ebay at crazy prices... Unless I am mistaken ?
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by des77 on Nov 9, 2011 15:07:51 GMT 1, Today at 11:18am, Cedric Mnich wrote: a queue type means it's only a brit thing... banksy has worldwide fans. meh... never seems to bother Kaws or Murakami. Plus if you live in France, you are actually closer to London than most people that live in the UK. I do Live in France and indeed I would not take a day off or two just to buy a print (not even mentioning the fact of queuieing for nothing like some did last year). Actually, no artist would have me move my ass abroad for a mere print, as close as Paris can be from any european town... Though I enjoy Banksy's work I am not a dedicated fan, that may explain why (and of course I own no print of him :-). I think a first come first served reservation by email could absolutely work without that queueing stuff or F5 killer key :-) There were not that many prints released for CYW and people abroad could (for most of them) buy CYW only online from ebay at crazy prices... Unless I am mistaken ?
Nope, they entered the lottery too.
My point is, that saying queuing is a 'brit release' only is silly. You could fly from many European destinations, and it would be quicker than if you lived in Newcastle or Devon and had to rely on driving or a train
Today at 11:18am, Cedric Mnich wrote: a queue type means it's only a brit thing... banksy has worldwide fans. meh... never seems to bother Kaws or Murakami. Plus if you live in France, you are actually closer to London than most people that live in the UK. I do Live in France and indeed I would not take a day off or two just to buy a print (not even mentioning the fact of queuieing for nothing like some did last year). Actually, no artist would have me move my ass abroad for a mere print, as close as Paris can be from any european town... Though I enjoy Banksy's work I am not a dedicated fan, that may explain why (and of course I own no print of him :-). I think a first come first served reservation by email could absolutely work without that queueing stuff or F5 killer key :-) There were not that many prints released for CYW and people abroad could (for most of them) buy CYW only online from ebay at crazy prices... Unless I am mistaken ? Nope, they entered the lottery too. My point is, that saying queuing is a 'brit release' only is silly. You could fly from many European destinations, and it would be quicker than if you lived in Newcastle or Devon and had to rely on driving or a train |
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Cedric Mnich
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
Likes โข 98
June 2009
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Cedric Mnich on Nov 9, 2011 15:18:55 GMT 1, I don't think many people would fly from any European destination just for a print release (not mentioning the travel budget).
I could be wrong of course, especially if people just want to speculate on a Banksy piece... It is true a 450 GBP can be sold ten times the price on ebay one hour later !
To me it is still a brit release because given the number of fans worldwide, if the print can only be bought in a London store, it remains a local sale.
Seriously, how many people from outside Britain could get the CYW on release (not from ebay) ?
I don't think many people would fly from any European destination just for a print release (not mentioning the travel budget).
I could be wrong of course, especially if people just want to speculate on a Banksy piece... It is true a 450 GBP can be sold ten times the price on ebay one hour later !
To me it is still a brit release because given the number of fans worldwide, if the print can only be bought in a London store, it remains a local sale.
Seriously, how many people from outside Britain could get the CYW on release (not from ebay) ?
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by saint on Nov 9, 2011 15:41:26 GMT 1, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander," Your best post yet...lol With regards having tea at POW - doesn't that still happen? Ok you maybe have to be a VIP. 
No, we get champagne.
;D
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander," Your best post yet...lol With regards having tea at POW - doesn't that still happen? Ok you maybe have to be a VIP. No, we get champagne. ;D |
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by saint on Nov 9, 2011 15:44:15 GMT 1, Ced, how many Palestinians do you reckon picked something up at the Bethlehem ghetto?
Ced, how many Palestinians do you reckon picked something up at the Bethlehem ghetto?
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by hunter007 on Nov 9, 2011 15:52:49 GMT 1, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander," Your best post yet...lol With regards having tea at POW - doesn't that still happen? Ok you maybe have to be a VIP.
thanks i thought so...
"What's good for the goose is good for the gander," Your best post yet...lol With regards having tea at POW - doesn't that still happen? Ok you maybe have to be a VIP. thanks i thought so... |
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by manty on Nov 9, 2011 17:12:24 GMT 1, No, I mean a queue in a different country! Oz , that would sort the men from the boys!
Or Antartica
No, I mean a queue in a different country! Oz , that would sort the men from the boys! Or Antartica |
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Cedric Mnich
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,158
Likes โข 98
June 2009
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by Cedric Mnich on Nov 9, 2011 17:47:39 GMT 1, "Ced, how many Palestinians do you reckon picked something up at the Bethlehem ghetto?"
What is your question supposed to prove ? I assume owning a Banksy is certainly the last preoccupation for Palestinians... But you'll tell me how many Banksy fans or collectors made the trip to Bethleem from abroad to grab something ? Was there a huge queue ?
"Ced, how many Palestinians do you reckon picked something up at the Bethlehem ghetto?"
What is your question supposed to prove ? I assume owning a Banksy is certainly the last preoccupation for Palestinians... But you'll tell me how many Banksy fans or collectors made the trip to Bethleem from abroad to grab something ? Was there a huge queue ?
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saint
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,887
Likes โข 1,881
September 2010
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Banksy a timed release... a good idea?, by saint on Nov 9, 2011 17:52:48 GMT 1, Oz , that would sort the men from the boys! Or Antartica
too many penguins, all of them flippers.
plus that rules out polar bears.
Oz , that would sort the men from the boys! Or Antartica too many penguins, all of them flippers. plus that rules out polar bears. |
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This place used to be buzzing. No pitbuls, no gangs, just people from all over the world trying their luck for a print. Everyone with equal chance. No system is ideal but it is by far the fairest.
