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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by manty on Dec 7, 2011 19:14:12 GMT 1, 10k for a damaged print ? and it will be always be a damaged print or a restored print if the owner ever sells it
Why will it
It will be a print in good condition won't it?
10k for a damaged print ? and it will be always be a damaged print or a restored print if the owner ever sells it Why will it It will be a print in good condition won't it?
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begs
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by begs on Dec 7, 2011 19:21:21 GMT 1, yes but restored
yes but restored
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mouser
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by mouser on Dec 7, 2011 20:07:28 GMT 1, I thought R@t's one was unsigned?
I thought R@t's one was unsigned?
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silvermyn
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by silvermyn on Dec 7, 2011 20:11:32 GMT 1, I would disagree with this as being a "great price" for the buyer. At a total of ยฃ10.4k they have ended up with a damaged print! Let's say they spend another ยฃ1k plus VAT getting it into shape with a top restorer they'd end up with an outlay around the ยฃ12k mark for a restored print. Rat's looking for ยฃ17k for a minty one and that remains unsold, as far as I know. For arguments sake, if we say ยฃ15k could get you a perfect example ( not suggesting Rat would let his go for that btw) and for ยฃ12k you could have a restored one, would you not bite the bullet and spend an extra ยฃ3k for the piece of mind...? I think I would A fair price for the buyer in this example but by no means "great" IMHO Restored means restores doesn't it? I'd take the ยฃ3k savings and buy some coke and hookers
No, not really.
Think about a valuable vase that got a chip on the rim and was later repaired. It's no longer in original condition and has therefore has dropped in value. May look fine but it's not what came out of the factory anymore.
I know some people don't really mind but serious collectors are very fussy people.
I would disagree with this as being a "great price" for the buyer. At a total of ยฃ10.4k they have ended up with a damaged print! Let's say they spend another ยฃ1k plus VAT getting it into shape with a top restorer they'd end up with an outlay around the ยฃ12k mark for a restored print. Rat's looking for ยฃ17k for a minty one and that remains unsold, as far as I know. For arguments sake, if we say ยฃ15k could get you a perfect example ( not suggesting Rat would let his go for that btw) and for ยฃ12k you could have a restored one, would you not bite the bullet and spend an extra ยฃ3k for the piece of mind...? I think I would A fair price for the buyer in this example but by no means "great" IMHO Restored means restores doesn't it? I'd take the ยฃ3k savings and buy some coke and hookers No, not really. Think about a valuable vase that got a chip on the rim and was later repaired. It's no longer in original condition and has therefore has dropped in value. May look fine but it's not what came out of the factory anymore. I know some people don't really mind but serious collectors are very fussy people.
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silvermyn
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by silvermyn on Dec 7, 2011 20:20:07 GMT 1, Apologies, I didn't realise Rat's was unsigned... not a fair comparison at all!
Apologies, I didn't realise Rat's was unsigned... not a fair comparison at all!
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mouser
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by mouser on Dec 7, 2011 20:25:14 GMT 1, I thought R@t's one was unsigned? It is unsigned... better hand finishing on his though imo. Not sure it make all that much difference a hand finished being unsigned? Plenty of canvas works are unsigned. it does if people are trying to compare them like for like, as does the condition of both pieces.
I thought R@t's one was unsigned? It is unsigned... better hand finishing on his though imo. Not sure it make all that much difference a hand finished being unsigned? Plenty of canvas works are unsigned. it does if people are trying to compare them like for like, as does the condition of both pieces.
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drevil
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by drevil on Dec 7, 2011 20:38:20 GMT 1, Where is the 3K difference coming from here? The one at auction hammered for 8 (10 after buyer's premium is added in). Rat is asking 17.
If you wanted a sprayed RC you would be a fool to buy the one from Rat after this result, IMO. This one at Christies is the best comp you can get at the moment, even if it is damaged. These don't sell too often obviously, but that is a huge price difference (8 vs. 17) for really similar prints.
Where is the 3K difference coming from here? The one at auction hammered for 8 (10 after buyer's premium is added in). Rat is asking 17.
If you wanted a sprayed RC you would be a fool to buy the one from Rat after this result, IMO. This one at Christies is the best comp you can get at the moment, even if it is damaged. These don't sell too often obviously, but that is a huge price difference (8 vs. 17) for really similar prints.
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ยฎat
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by ยฎat on Dec 7, 2011 21:59:46 GMT 1, I thought R@t's one was unsigned?
Its signed in spraypaint....
I thought R@t's one was unsigned? Its signed in spraypaint....
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by des77 on Dec 7, 2011 22:14:43 GMT 1, I thought R@t's one was unsigned? Its signed in spraypaint....
hand finished and signed are different things
I thought R@t's one was unsigned? Its signed in spraypaint.... hand finished and signed are different things
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by Coach on Dec 7, 2011 23:23:15 GMT 1, Its signed in spraypaint.... hand finished and signed are different things
Yes, but if Banksy writes Banksy in spray paint accoss it, then it's signed in spray paint isn't it?
Its signed in spraypaint.... hand finished and signed are different things Yes, but if Banksy writes Banksy in spray paint accoss it, then it's signed in spray paint isn't it?
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dkla
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by dkla on Dec 7, 2011 23:26:00 GMT 1, hand finished and signed are different things Yes, but if Banksy writes Banksy in spray paint accoss it, then it's signed in spray paint isn't it?
Yes, of course. Why wouldn't it be? (I know you agree) Doesn't matter if he uses spraypaint or a pencil.
hand finished and signed are different things Yes, but if Banksy writes Banksy in spray paint accoss it, then it's signed in spray paint isn't it? Yes, of course. Why wouldn't it be? (I know you agree) Doesn't matter if he uses spraypaint or a pencil.
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Deleted
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by Deleted on Dec 8, 2011 0:55:03 GMT 1, the provenance however will state it as unsigned (apologies R@ts, yours is still delicious)
Silvermyn - not sure who you would use for restoration, but ยฃ1K is very extravagant - I would put restoration down at far less then ยฃ1k, perhaps ยฃ200-300.
So all told I would say just under ยฃ11K to get a minty fresh, signed, handpainted, unique Rude Copper - yeah thats a great price in my eyes
the provenance however will state it as unsigned (apologies R@ts, yours is still delicious)
Silvermyn - not sure who you would use for restoration, but ยฃ1K is very extravagant - I would put restoration down at far less then ยฃ1k, perhaps ยฃ200-300.
So all told I would say just under ยฃ11K to get a minty fresh, signed, handpainted, unique Rude Copper - yeah thats a great price in my eyes
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johnnyh
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by johnnyh on Dec 8, 2011 8:24:56 GMT 1, Unfair on Rat I think this. He is selling his piece at what he thinks which is fair enough and some one can do a deal with him if they want.
This one is a different piece in my book. signed and with some damage but a good estimate. However it is only that and as we all know it can go unsold or way over the estimate price. Remember 16K for a CND literally about 6 weeks ago. That was Bonhams but similar crowd so think need to wait and see before comparing with Rats.
He is asking a lot but that is his choice
Unfair on Rat I think this. He is selling his piece at what he thinks which is fair enough and some one can do a deal with him if they want.
This one is a different piece in my book. signed and with some damage but a good estimate. However it is only that and as we all know it can go unsold or way over the estimate price. Remember 16K for a CND literally about 6 weeks ago. That was Bonhams but similar crowd so think need to wait and see before comparing with Rats.
He is asking a lot but that is his choice
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by des77 on Dec 8, 2011 8:30:39 GMT 1, Remember 16K for a CND literally about 6 weeks ago. That was Bonhams ...
really ?
Remember 16K for a CND literally about 6 weeks ago. That was Bonhams ... really ?
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by des77 on Dec 8, 2011 8:40:24 GMT 1, Yes, but if Banksy writes Banksy in spray paint accoss it, then it's signed in spray paint isn't it? Yes, of course. Why wouldn't it be? (I know you agree) Doesn't matter if he uses spraypaint or a pencil.
well for one he doesnt write his whole name, plus some a were sold signed and some unsigned. Contact PC and see if it counts as the signed edition... I bet they say no.
Yes, but if Banksy writes Banksy in spray paint accoss it, then it's signed in spray paint isn't it? Yes, of course. Why wouldn't it be? (I know you agree) Doesn't matter if he uses spraypaint or a pencil. well for one he doesnt write his whole name, plus some a were sold signed and some unsigned. Contact PC and see if it counts as the signed edition... I bet they say no.
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Harveyn
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by Harveyn on Dec 8, 2011 10:16:51 GMT 1, I agree with JV. ยฃ10Kยฃ11K for a signed, hand sprayed RC is a steal IMO.
You cannot put a price on R@ts RC based on one sale in one auction. If that was true then what price is a signed CND? That said as these are rare and hardly come up for sale (signed or unsigned) its hard to judge the current value.
If R@ts RC was mine (and I wish it was) I would not sell this anywhere near as low as ยฃ11k. These rarely come up for sale and not many Banksy prints are hand finished.
I agree with JV. ยฃ10Kยฃ11K for a signed, hand sprayed RC is a steal IMO.
You cannot put a price on R@ts RC based on one sale in one auction. If that was true then what price is a signed CND? That said as these are rare and hardly come up for sale (signed or unsigned) its hard to judge the current value.
If R@ts RC was mine (and I wish it was) I would not sell this anywhere near as low as ยฃ11k. These rarely come up for sale and not many Banksy prints are hand finished.
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silvermyn
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by silvermyn on Dec 8, 2011 14:49:03 GMT 1, the provenance however will state it as unsigned (apologies R@ts, yours is still delicious) Silvermyn - not sure who you would use for restoration, but ยฃ1K is very extravagant - I would put restoration down at far less then ยฃ1k, perhaps ยฃ200-300. So all told I would say just under ยฃ11K to get a minty fresh, signed, handpainted, unique Rude Copper - yeah thats a great price in my eyes
You're probably right on the restoration. I had some conservation work done to the back of a Faile OG on paper a couple of years ago, after it was almost pierced by a pen. They used liquid paper which I'd imagine would be required for the back of this RC. Mine had a tiny dent but that set me back ยฃ70 plus VAT! Maybe repairing all the corners on this RC and a press to take out creases could cost as little as a few hundred quid. Personally, I'd only give this print to someone really reputable who's properly insured and that will cost more than it otherwise might.
On the valuation aspect for this damaged but signed and handfinished RC I'd say the market has already spoken. It's only worth ยฃ8k Restored it may be worth ยฃ11k but then would somebody pay that much for a print that's been restored? I suppose that we won't know for sure until it happens but I know how I felt about my Fail OG on paper before and after the "accident" and that was after only a miniscule repair job.
the provenance however will state it as unsigned (apologies R@ts, yours is still delicious) Silvermyn - not sure who you would use for restoration, but ยฃ1K is very extravagant - I would put restoration down at far less then ยฃ1k, perhaps ยฃ200-300. So all told I would say just under ยฃ11K to get a minty fresh, signed, handpainted, unique Rude Copper - yeah thats a great price in my eyes You're probably right on the restoration. I had some conservation work done to the back of a Faile OG on paper a couple of years ago, after it was almost pierced by a pen. They used liquid paper which I'd imagine would be required for the back of this RC. Mine had a tiny dent but that set me back ยฃ70 plus VAT! Maybe repairing all the corners on this RC and a press to take out creases could cost as little as a few hundred quid. Personally, I'd only give this print to someone really reputable who's properly insured and that will cost more than it otherwise might. On the valuation aspect for this damaged but signed and handfinished RC I'd say the market has already spoken. It's only worth ยฃ8k Restored it may be worth ยฃ11k but then would somebody pay that much for a print that's been restored? I suppose that we won't know for sure until it happens but I know how I felt about my Fail OG on paper before and after the "accident" and that was after only a miniscule repair job.
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Deleted
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by Deleted on Dec 8, 2011 17:51:24 GMT 1, the market spoke in Feb 2009 at Dreweatts Urban Art auction - when another handsprayed signed Rude Copper sold for just under ยฃ13k (inc of buyers premium).
I am sure who ever bought it isnt thinking they overpaid for it either.
the market spoke in Feb 2009 at Dreweatts Urban Art auction - when another handsprayed signed Rude Copper sold for just under ยฃ13k (inc of buyers premium).
I am sure who ever bought it isnt thinking they overpaid for it either.
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by Brushstrokes 75 on Dec 8, 2011 18:26:40 GMT 1, The thing is that unless your print is torn in half.
I don't know how good is your restorer but you won't see a dent after restoration with a really good restorer. Nobody except yourself will now if the print has been restored or not.... Auction houses rarerly disclose restoration anyway.
So after being restored & properly framed you won't see any difference. I will add up that auction houses rarely took prints out of the frame for inspection either............
The thing is that unless your print is torn in half.
I don't know how good is your restorer but you won't see a dent after restoration with a really good restorer. Nobody except yourself will now if the print has been restored or not.... Auction houses rarerly disclose restoration anyway.
So after being restored & properly framed you won't see any difference. I will add up that auction houses rarely took prints out of the frame for inspection either............
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silvermyn
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Signed RC @ Chrisities, by silvermyn on Dec 8, 2011 20:27:14 GMT 1, the market spoke in Feb 2009 at Dreweatts Urban Art auction - when another handsprayed signed Rude Copper sold for just under ยฃ13k (inc of buyers premium). I am sure who ever bought it isnt thinking they overpaid for it either.
Sorry but I don't get your point JV
Are you saying that the one in 2009 and this one were both just extraordinarily great buys? Would that be based on a comparison with other actual (higher) sales results or just what you feel they should be fetching...?
I'd say from what you've pointed out that the low teens seem to be the going rate for the signed, handsprayed RC regardless of where you or I think that it should be priced
the market spoke in Feb 2009 at Dreweatts Urban Art auction - when another handsprayed signed Rude Copper sold for just under ยฃ13k (inc of buyers premium). I am sure who ever bought it isnt thinking they overpaid for it either. Sorry but I don't get your point JV Are you saying that the one in 2009 and this one were both just extraordinarily great buys? Would that be based on a comparison with other actual (higher) sales results or just what you feel they should be fetching...? I'd say from what you've pointed out that the low teens seem to be the going rate for the signed, handsprayed RC regardless of where you or I think that it should be priced
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