swabie2424
New Member
Posts โข 142
Likes โข 6
February 2012
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by swabie2424 on May 23, 2012 22:55:47 GMT 1, Indeed a great post, sven! Couldn't have said it better.
Indeed a great post, sven! Couldn't have said it better.
|
|
bigtlt
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,645
Likes โข 737
July 2009
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by bigtlt on May 23, 2012 23:56:12 GMT 1, How would you describe my Eelus - Icarus?? Only one with inscription across the bottom. Hand-finished AP? Original AP?
How would you describe my Eelus - Icarus?? Only one with inscription across the bottom. Hand-finished AP? Original AP?
|
|
temple
New Member
Posts โข 56
Likes โข 8
November 2010
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by temple on May 23, 2012 23:59:07 GMT 1, What makes a piece of work an OG?..........simply check to see if its signed "ICE-T"
What makes a piece of work an OG?..........simply check to see if its signed "ICE-T"
|
|
gibbin82
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,008
Likes โข 180
April 2008
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by gibbin82 on May 24, 2012 0:14:12 GMT 1, How would you describe my Eelus - Icarus?? Only one with inscription across the bottom. Hand-finished AP? Original AP?
I would describe it as nice
How would you describe my Eelus - Icarus?? Only one with inscription across the bottom. Hand-finished AP? Original AP? I would describe it as nice
|
|
sakyamuni
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,451
Likes โข 1,671
July 2009
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by sakyamuni on May 24, 2012 8:24:50 GMT 1, thanks a lot sven, i was always confused by this term OG, now i know and i'll try to use it the right way in the future... ;D One question: i have a great piece by Skewville they did for the Martha copper show. Carmichael sold the original before i was able to reach them, but when they answered they told they had 5 AP's available of this piece. I was surprised to find out about AP's for an original. They then explained me that Skewville did some experimentation before reaching the result they were looking for. so the final one was sold as original, the other 5 as AP's (and all at the same price, original and AP). I have one of these and it is only written AP on it, no number and they all look different (colours used). So guys, verdict? to me it is before everything a great piece, one of the nicest i own, and i look at it as an original. I don't think i would have buy if it was a print, even in an edition of 5. I fear we're all weirdos...
thanks a lot sven, i was always confused by this term OG, now i know and i'll try to use it the right way in the future... ;D One question: i have a great piece by Skewville they did for the Martha copper show. Carmichael sold the original before i was able to reach them, but when they answered they told they had 5 AP's available of this piece. I was surprised to find out about AP's for an original. They then explained me that Skewville did some experimentation before reaching the result they were looking for. so the final one was sold as original, the other 5 as AP's (and all at the same price, original and AP). I have one of these and it is only written AP on it, no number and they all look different (colours used). So guys, verdict? to me it is before everything a great piece, one of the nicest i own, and i look at it as an original. I don't think i would have buy if it was a print, even in an edition of 5. I fear we're all weirdos...
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by Deleted on May 24, 2012 10:17:16 GMT 1, I can't stand it when people refer to original works of art as "OGs". Just type the other 6 letters out dammit and call it an ORIGINAL. Use the whole word!
I can't stand the term "Mr B"
Do you think I need to get out more?
I can't stand it when people refer to original works of art as "OGs". Just type the other 6 letters out dammit and call it an ORIGINAL. Use the whole word! I can't stand the term "Mr B" Do you think I need to get out more?
|
|
|
artswipe
New Member
Posts โข 33
Likes โข 1
June 2011
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by artswipe on May 24, 2012 12:51:35 GMT 1, Yes indeed thanks Sven very clear post..only one slight quibble. In my experience 'multiple' usually refers to an object rather than an print/picture, and usually one that isnt cast or it is a piece of sculpture. for instance lego figures or something assembled and a number of them made would be a multiple. Also as a printer i would say that strictly an Artists Proof is the first few off the press/screen bed that is checked by the artist for colour, registration etc. but now they seem to be produced just as an extra few in addition to the editon. Oh one more thing..I think something can be called an original print if it is created for the sole purpose of being a print, whereas a giclee/inkjet print of a painting is a reproduction.. anyhoo..
Yes indeed thanks Sven very clear post..only one slight quibble. In my experience 'multiple' usually refers to an object rather than an print/picture, and usually one that isnt cast or it is a piece of sculpture. for instance lego figures or something assembled and a number of them made would be a multiple. Also as a printer i would say that strictly an Artists Proof is the first few off the press/screen bed that is checked by the artist for colour, registration etc. but now they seem to be produced just as an extra few in addition to the editon. Oh one more thing..I think something can be called an original print if it is created for the sole purpose of being a print, whereas a giclee/inkjet print of a painting is a reproduction.. anyhoo..
|
|
lifeonwalls
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,407
Likes โข 173
September 2007
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by lifeonwalls on May 24, 2012 16:09:33 GMT 1, How would you describe my Eelus - Icarus?? Only one with inscription across the bottom. Hand-finished AP? Original AP?
AP. Writing something at the bottom doesn't make it hand-finished/embellished. It's personalized/dedicated to you however someone else may not care for it.
How would you describe my Eelus - Icarus?? Only one with inscription across the bottom. Hand-finished AP? Original AP? AP. Writing something at the bottom doesn't make it hand-finished/embellished. It's personalized/dedicated to you however someone else may not care for it.
|
|
11
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,810
Likes โข 6,711
February 2011
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by 11 on May 24, 2012 16:18:28 GMT 1, Great thread and far more interesting than whether POW's shutters are up or down today.
Original for me is when the artist creates the piece from scratch - it may be collaged and made up of other pieces but has no element of mass production in it at all. Yes, 100 Jours are originals - the โI Have Chalksโ on the other hand are a set of unique pieces from an editioned set. Someone owns the original I have chalks, the one that started as a blank canvas and was created from nothing. I'd be pissed off if id paid x thousand for what I believed to be an original piece and suddenly there were 101 of them all being passed of as Ice-T's. Similarly, is the chicken dino an original just because it's been coloured in - unique yes, original no.
I look at like this - if the piece started off blank (wood, canvas, fag box or whatever) and the artist creates the piece from scratch then it is an original. If they mass produce the base of the image then it is a multiple, or from an edition. Someone has already made the point that pieces produced as editions are not original and I have to agree. I have a vandal airways AP with hand sprayed background, there's a lot of background coloured in (60-70% of the image?) but wouldn't ever class it as original. I have a Mau portrait from an AP edition of 6 which everyone is a different colour and has loads of hand finishing - Unique but NOT an Ice-T.
With stencilling I think this becomes a little more contentious; if an artist creates a stencil, or even a silk screen, uses it once and then bins it then I would say it is an original - if they re-use that same stencil more than once it becomes a multiple. A great example is the signature piece from Penny's latest show - 'a drop in motion' he spent 6-9 months creating the stencil for that piece - produced one image and then binned the stencil โ Definitely an originalโฆ.
Great thread and far more interesting than whether POW's shutters are up or down today.
Original for me is when the artist creates the piece from scratch - it may be collaged and made up of other pieces but has no element of mass production in it at all. Yes, 100 Jours are originals - the โI Have Chalksโ on the other hand are a set of unique pieces from an editioned set. Someone owns the original I have chalks, the one that started as a blank canvas and was created from nothing. I'd be pissed off if id paid x thousand for what I believed to be an original piece and suddenly there were 101 of them all being passed of as Ice-T's. Similarly, is the chicken dino an original just because it's been coloured in - unique yes, original no.
I look at like this - if the piece started off blank (wood, canvas, fag box or whatever) and the artist creates the piece from scratch then it is an original. If they mass produce the base of the image then it is a multiple, or from an edition. Someone has already made the point that pieces produced as editions are not original and I have to agree. I have a vandal airways AP with hand sprayed background, there's a lot of background coloured in (60-70% of the image?) but wouldn't ever class it as original. I have a Mau portrait from an AP edition of 6 which everyone is a different colour and has loads of hand finishing - Unique but NOT an Ice-T.
With stencilling I think this becomes a little more contentious; if an artist creates a stencil, or even a silk screen, uses it once and then bins it then I would say it is an original - if they re-use that same stencil more than once it becomes a multiple. A great example is the signature piece from Penny's latest show - 'a drop in motion' he spent 6-9 months creating the stencil for that piece - produced one image and then binned the stencil โ Definitely an originalโฆ.
|
|
chaserawr
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,146
Likes โข 224
February 2011
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by chaserawr on May 24, 2012 16:33:27 GMT 1, With stencilling I think this becomes a little more contentious; if an artist creates a stencil, or even a silk screen, uses it once and then bins it then I would say it is an original - if they re-use that same stencil more than once it becomes a multiple. A great example is the signature piece from Penny's latest show - 'a drop in motion' he spent 6-9 months creating the stencil for that piece - produced one image and then binned the stencil โ Definitely an originalโฆ.
I tend to disagree a little bit on this. I think stenciling or linocuts or wood cuts can also be originals if the medium or technique changes from piece to piece. Obviously a GWB on canvas or paper and a GWB on reclaimed wood would still be considered original as the medium has changed between the images. While each have the same stencil per say the artists intend was not to have an edition of the piece. What if penny decides to reuse that stencil he made 3-4 years ago on a completely different medium, I believe his intent would still be to have the new piece unique and original and not to be associated with the older original piece.
IMO, this is why provenance is so important. It shows at the time of creation what the artists intent was for the piece.
With stencilling I think this becomes a little more contentious; if an artist creates a stencil, or even a silk screen, uses it once and then bins it then I would say it is an original - if they re-use that same stencil more than once it becomes a multiple. A great example is the signature piece from Penny's latest show - 'a drop in motion' he spent 6-9 months creating the stencil for that piece - produced one image and then binned the stencil โ Definitely an originalโฆ. I tend to disagree a little bit on this. I think stenciling or linocuts or wood cuts can also be originals if the medium or technique changes from piece to piece. Obviously a GWB on canvas or paper and a GWB on reclaimed wood would still be considered original as the medium has changed between the images. While each have the same stencil per say the artists intend was not to have an edition of the piece. What if penny decides to reuse that stencil he made 3-4 years ago on a completely different medium, I believe his intent would still be to have the new piece unique and original and not to be associated with the older original piece. IMO, this is why provenance is so important. It shows at the time of creation what the artists intent was for the piece.
|
|
11
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,810
Likes โข 6,711
February 2011
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by 11 on May 24, 2012 16:59:41 GMT 1, With stencilling I think this becomes a little more contentious; if an artist creates a stencil, or even a silk screen, uses it once and then bins it then I would say it is an original - if they re-use that same stencil more than once it becomes a multiple. A great example is the signature piece from Penny's latest show - 'a drop in motion' he spent 6-9 months creating the stencil for that piece - produced one image and then binned the stencil โ Definitely an originalโฆ. I tend to disagree a little bit on this. I think stenciling or linocuts or wood cuts can also be originals if the medium or technique changes from piece to piece. Obviously a GWB on canvas or paper and a GWB on reclaimed wood would still be considered original as the medium has changed between the images. While each have the same stencil per say the artists intend was not to have an edition of the piece. What if penny decides to reuse that stencil he made 3-4 years ago on a completely different medium, I believe his intent would still be to have the new piece unique and original and not to be associated with the older original piece. IMO, this is why provenance is so important. It shows at the time of creation what the artists intent was for the piece.
I see your point and have had a very relevant experience - spending a few hundred on Luna Dawn only to find the same image re-used on another 80 or so dollar bills 3-6 months later - the only difference being on the other side of the note and un-numbered.
IMO this is still creating editions of the same image - I guess what this actually highlights is a lack of any standards and without a governing body to provide clarity it is open to interpretation - at least I know I'm right
With stencilling I think this becomes a little more contentious; if an artist creates a stencil, or even a silk screen, uses it once and then bins it then I would say it is an original - if they re-use that same stencil more than once it becomes a multiple. A great example is the signature piece from Penny's latest show - 'a drop in motion' he spent 6-9 months creating the stencil for that piece - produced one image and then binned the stencil โ Definitely an originalโฆ. I tend to disagree a little bit on this. I think stenciling or linocuts or wood cuts can also be originals if the medium or technique changes from piece to piece. Obviously a GWB on canvas or paper and a GWB on reclaimed wood would still be considered original as the medium has changed between the images. While each have the same stencil per say the artists intend was not to have an edition of the piece. What if penny decides to reuse that stencil he made 3-4 years ago on a completely different medium, I believe his intent would still be to have the new piece unique and original and not to be associated with the older original piece. IMO, this is why provenance is so important. It shows at the time of creation what the artists intent was for the piece. I see your point and have had a very relevant experience - spending a few hundred on Luna Dawn only to find the same image re-used on another 80 or so dollar bills 3-6 months later - the only difference being on the other side of the note and un-numbered. IMO this is still creating editions of the same image - I guess what this actually highlights is a lack of any standards and without a governing body to provide clarity it is open to interpretation - at least I know I'm right
|
|
jonnyx
New Member
Posts โข 694
Likes โข 151
May 2007
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by jonnyx on May 24, 2012 17:21:21 GMT 1, Sky, I couldn't agree with you more. Every time I see the term OG used out of context, I have to offset my frustration by pulling a single whisker from a fragile, trembling kitten. OG is derived from 'original graphic'. A term used in the comic and illustration industries, particularly by collectors who just have to have the 'original graphic' to hoard in plastic sleeves under their beds.... This may resonate with some people here. The term is not short for original. Please, for the sake of kittehs everywhere, can everybody please stop using the term OG when referring to an original painting? Please. An original is a unique painting. A multiple, or artist multiple, is something produced by hand with a slight variation between each in a series. An edition is a print, or something mass produced using a technique of reproduction wirh the intent to create an identical output. An OG is the original graphic that was used to make a reproduced piece. Great post Sven +1
agreed - hate the term OG, too strong a connotation with fiddy and the macho posturing end of rap.
Sky, I couldn't agree with you more. Every time I see the term OG used out of context, I have to offset my frustration by pulling a single whisker from a fragile, trembling kitten. OG is derived from 'original graphic'. A term used in the comic and illustration industries, particularly by collectors who just have to have the 'original graphic' to hoard in plastic sleeves under their beds.... This may resonate with some people here. The term is not short for original. Please, for the sake of kittehs everywhere, can everybody please stop using the term OG when referring to an original painting? Please. An original is a unique painting. A multiple, or artist multiple, is something produced by hand with a slight variation between each in a series. An edition is a print, or something mass produced using a technique of reproduction wirh the intent to create an identical output. An OG is the original graphic that was used to make a reproduced piece. Great post Sven +1 agreed - hate the term OG, too strong a connotation with fiddy and the macho posturing end of rap.
|
|
Baby Dave
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,392
Likes โข 321
February 2011
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by Baby Dave on May 24, 2012 17:37:54 GMT 1, Im really enjoying reading everyones thoughts on this topic. Im also loving the coined phrase of "Ice T".
Chaserawr, you bring up an interesting point about Pennys stencils. If he does bring a stencil out of retirement and sprays it on a different medium, does it make the new piece an original? Or does it make it a new multiple? The only 'original' aspect of this would be that its on a different medium. A few years back I asked Penny to make me a Thumbelina and a Lexine Lost. He brought the stencils out of retirement and sprayed me a Thumbelina on a ยฃ10 and a Lexine on a $5. They have not been sprayed on these notes before. Ive always considered them to be unique in the sense they are the only ones on these notes. They are marked as 1/1. Reading everyones comments I dont see these as being 'originals' as such as they are pre-used images. This doesnt detract my love for them as they are amazing pieces.
In the same breath though, some may consider them to be originals as they are on a different note to what was originally released. Its interesting how speculative one can be with regards to pieces that arent specifically labelled as "originals".
Im really enjoying reading everyones thoughts on this topic. Im also loving the coined phrase of "Ice T".
Chaserawr, you bring up an interesting point about Pennys stencils. If he does bring a stencil out of retirement and sprays it on a different medium, does it make the new piece an original? Or does it make it a new multiple? The only 'original' aspect of this would be that its on a different medium. A few years back I asked Penny to make me a Thumbelina and a Lexine Lost. He brought the stencils out of retirement and sprayed me a Thumbelina on a ยฃ10 and a Lexine on a $5. They have not been sprayed on these notes before. Ive always considered them to be unique in the sense they are the only ones on these notes. They are marked as 1/1. Reading everyones comments I dont see these as being 'originals' as such as they are pre-used images. This doesnt detract my love for them as they are amazing pieces.
In the same breath though, some may consider them to be originals as they are on a different note to what was originally released. Its interesting how speculative one can be with regards to pieces that arent specifically labelled as "originals".
|
|
chaserawr
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,146
Likes โข 224
February 2011
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by chaserawr on May 24, 2012 17:48:38 GMT 1, Yeah I hear you. I think you would have originals. I think its pretty selfish to ask an artist to only use an image once and the retire it. especially in Penny's case where his stencils could take 6-8 months in creation. Original just means its UNIQUE in some way. That uniqueness is up to the artist. Maybe its on a new bill, or a new color paint, or a new material. We as collectors can't make that call. Its up to the artist and your provenance. All my original works (only have 2) say the word "UNIQUE" in their description from the gallery. 100 years from now when we are all dead that little paper will show the artists intent with the piece.
Yeah I hear you. I think you would have originals. I think its pretty selfish to ask an artist to only use an image once and the retire it. especially in Penny's case where his stencils could take 6-8 months in creation. Original just means its UNIQUE in some way. That uniqueness is up to the artist. Maybe its on a new bill, or a new color paint, or a new material. We as collectors can't make that call. Its up to the artist and your provenance. All my original works (only have 2) say the word "UNIQUE" in their description from the gallery. 100 years from now when we are all dead that little paper will show the artists intent with the piece.
|
|
|
.dappy
Full Member
Posts โข 9,836
Likes โข 9,445
December 2010
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by .dappy on May 24, 2012 23:47:38 GMT 1, dappy being doppy - please expalin the 'new' term Ice-T? ;D
dappy being doppy - please expalin the 'new' term Ice-T? ;D
|
|
.dappy
Full Member
Posts โข 9,836
Likes โข 9,445
December 2010
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by .dappy on May 24, 2012 23:54:31 GMT 1, UNIQUE HPM IMO
UNIQUE HPM IMO
|
|
Blakeies
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,033
Likes โข 730
June 2011
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by Blakeies on May 25, 2012 0:10:17 GMT 1, UNIQUE HPM IMO
Still so jealous of you owning this print/ hpm ;D
UNIQUE HPM IMO Still so jealous of you owning this print/ hpm ;D
|
|
.dappy
Full Member
Posts โข 9,836
Likes โข 9,445
December 2010
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by .dappy on May 25, 2012 0:17:27 GMT 1, ty - I put it up on a wall ... couple of pics at the w/e
ty - I put it up on a wall ... couple of pics at the w/e
|
|
naughtyshorty
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,242
Likes โข 423
February 2010
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by naughtyshorty on May 25, 2012 7:53:52 GMT 1, interesting thread. mainly cos i too cannot stand people using the term OG. argh!
interesting thread. mainly cos i too cannot stand people using the term OG. argh!
|
|
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by Brushstrokes 75 on May 26, 2012 11:18:16 GMT 1, I think people are getting confused between the use of "original (OG)" on this forum with the real meaning of the word...
Original in its real sense has nothing to do with unique/edition.
A good explanation would be this :
" There are essentially two types of prints: original and reproductive. A reproductive print is at it sounds: a reproduction, usually involving a photograph or stencil, of a work of art. It typically has little value. An original print, in general, is the end-product of one or more techniques in which the artist has created a design expressly for that print and, in general , is the handiwork of the artist himself. The artist creates the design directly on some sort of plate (copper, stone, etc.) or in some cases he or his assistant transfers the design from paper onto the plate. The print is then produced by applying paper to the inked plate under pressure. The print is not dependent upon any precedent, more original work. It is not a direct copy of a painting. Although there may be related drawings or paintings, there is no earlier work of art from which the print has been directly derived...
[....]
Another semantic source of confusion is easily clarified, namely the distinction between original and unique works of art. If there is more than one impression, of an original print, it is not unique. It is nonetheless original!
Some people feel that the presence of multiple impressions of a print somehow diminishes its desirability. Theyโre certainly entitled to their opinion. But, as you can see, an original print is every bit as much a direct result of the artistโs creativity and execution as a painting. It may lack the texture of a painting, and it may require a glass or Plexiglas barrier for its protection, but it's still the artist's original creation. "
Furthermore, we kind of used the word OG here for everything that wasn't printed. In that sense, I agree that, for example, I Have chalks is not an OG. The ground of the artwork is the printed boy seated not the drawing on the wall. It's just an embelisshed print.
Professionals don't usually use the word original to mean handpainted they just use the class the artwork is relevant too. Painting, Drawing, Prints, Sculpture, Ceramics, Objects......
I think people are getting confused between the use of "original (OG)" on this forum with the real meaning of the word...
Original in its real sense has nothing to do with unique/edition.
A good explanation would be this :
" There are essentially two types of prints: original and reproductive. A reproductive print is at it sounds: a reproduction, usually involving a photograph or stencil, of a work of art. It typically has little value. An original print, in general, is the end-product of one or more techniques in which the artist has created a design expressly for that print and, in general , is the handiwork of the artist himself. The artist creates the design directly on some sort of plate (copper, stone, etc.) or in some cases he or his assistant transfers the design from paper onto the plate. The print is then produced by applying paper to the inked plate under pressure. The print is not dependent upon any precedent, more original work. It is not a direct copy of a painting. Although there may be related drawings or paintings, there is no earlier work of art from which the print has been directly derived...
[....]
Another semantic source of confusion is easily clarified, namely the distinction between original and unique works of art. If there is more than one impression, of an original print, it is not unique. It is nonetheless original!
Some people feel that the presence of multiple impressions of a print somehow diminishes its desirability. Theyโre certainly entitled to their opinion. But, as you can see, an original print is every bit as much a direct result of the artistโs creativity and execution as a painting. It may lack the texture of a painting, and it may require a glass or Plexiglas barrier for its protection, but it's still the artist's original creation. "
Furthermore, we kind of used the word OG here for everything that wasn't printed. In that sense, I agree that, for example, I Have chalks is not an OG. The ground of the artwork is the printed boy seated not the drawing on the wall. It's just an embelisshed print.
Professionals don't usually use the word original to mean handpainted they just use the class the artwork is relevant too. Painting, Drawing, Prints, Sculpture, Ceramics, Objects......
|
|
.dappy
Full Member
Posts โข 9,836
Likes โข 9,445
December 2010
|
What makes a piece an OG?, by .dappy on May 26, 2012 11:50:00 GMT 1, I always like it when Mr B adds his wisdom to the forum ... Unique HPM is alright then
I always like it when Mr B adds his wisdom to the forum ... Unique HPM is alright then
|
|