kentkid
New Member
🗨️ 196
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May 2007
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by kentkid on Jan 28, 2021 11:51:14 GMT 1, Hi all, What would be the value of a Banksy's Pulp Fiction unsigned in a private trade? Funny / crazy talk today in office, I am working in a coworking place and my small office is full of art. One lady from another company asking me about the artists I collect. I do mention Banksy and the bits I have (welcome mat, wall sections, Peckham rock, visit historic Palestine poster etc.), and she says : « My husband has a unsigned Pulp Fiction of a serie of 600 » Me: 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 They got the print given when living in London long long time ago and they will now request PC COA. Thanks, Ugo
An unsigned Pulp Fiction sold at an auction yesterday for £88,400 (including fees), so I would imagine £80k and above for a private sale; but the lucky owner will need to have the print verified by Pest Control so they get that COA.
Thanks,
KentKid
Hi all, What would be the value of a Banksy's Pulp Fiction unsigned in a private trade? Funny / crazy talk today in office, I am working in a coworking place and my small office is full of art. One lady from another company asking me about the artists I collect. I do mention Banksy and the bits I have (welcome mat, wall sections, Peckham rock, visit historic Palestine poster etc.), and she says : « My husband has a unsigned Pulp Fiction of a serie of 600 » Me: 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 They got the print given when living in London long long time ago and they will now request PC COA. Thanks, Ugo Hi Ugo, An unsigned Pulp Fiction sold at an auction yesterday for £88,400 (including fees), so I would imagine £80k and above for a private sale; but the lucky owner will need to have the print verified by Pest Control so they get that COA. Thanks, KentKid |
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Brittany's Urban on Jan 28, 2021 12:05:21 GMT 1, Appreciate the kind help.
I should have offered 2K€ and say it was the maximum price to get for it 
Appreciate the kind help. I should have offered 2K€ and say it was the maximum price to get for it |
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kentkid
New Member
🗨️ 196
👍🏻 48
May 2007
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by kentkid on Jan 28, 2021 12:08:37 GMT 1, Appreciate the kind help. I should have offered 2K€ and say it was the maximum price to get for it
Make sure that lady at work is sitting down when you break the news to her... 
Appreciate the kind help. I should have offered 2K€ and say it was the maximum price to get for it You’re welcome!! Make sure that lady at work is sitting down when you break the news to her... |
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henryc
New Member
🗨️ 225
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December 2020
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by henryc on Jan 28, 2021 12:09:24 GMT 1, Hi all, What would be the value of a Banksy's Pulp Fiction unsigned in a private trade? Funny / crazy talk today in office, I am working in a coworking place and my small office is full of art. One lady from another company asking me about the artists I collect. I do mention Banksy and the bits I have (welcome mat, wall sections, Peckham rock, visit historic Palestine poster etc.), and she says : « My husband has a unsigned Pulp Fiction of a serie of 600 » Me: 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 They got the print given when living in London long long time ago and they will now request PC COA. Thanks, Ugo
I can relate here,
Got talking with a colleague and after a while I mentioned Banksy..
Oh yeah he s cool,my sis got a print with a rat and a heart some workmates offered to her a long time ago.
She didn't have a clue about value or coa or all the stuff we re all very anal about lol
During the past year I updated her about the value and she can't believe it..
In a way it s so refreshing..
Hi all, What would be the value of a Banksy's Pulp Fiction unsigned in a private trade? Funny / crazy talk today in office, I am working in a coworking place and my small office is full of art. One lady from another company asking me about the artists I collect. I do mention Banksy and the bits I have (welcome mat, wall sections, Peckham rock, visit historic Palestine poster etc.), and she says : « My husband has a unsigned Pulp Fiction of a serie of 600 » Me: 😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳 They got the print given when living in London long long time ago and they will now request PC COA. Thanks, Ugo I can relate here, Got talking with a colleague and after a while I mentioned Banksy.. Oh yeah he s cool,my sis got a print with a rat and a heart some workmates offered to her a long time ago. She didn't have a clue about value or coa or all the stuff we re all very anal about lol During the past year I updated her about the value and she can't believe it.. In a way it s so refreshing.. |
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trapnel1
New Member
🗨️ 662
👍🏻 460
September 2008
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by trapnel1 on Jan 28, 2021 12:25:30 GMT 1, First edition without dustwrapper widely available at £130 and upwards. If selling, I would expect less than £100.
With dustwrapper in this condition somewhere between £150 and £500 - probably closer to the lower end for a quick sale. Depends how long you are prepared to wait, of course. Still significantly more than this would have sold for a couple of years ago. However, I don't think there will ever be the sort of price inflation we have seen for other Banksy items.
First edition without dustwrapper widely available at £130 and upwards. If selling, I would expect less than £100.
With dustwrapper in this condition somewhere between £150 and £500 - probably closer to the lower end for a quick sale. Depends how long you are prepared to wait, of course. Still significantly more than this would have sold for a couple of years ago. However, I don't think there will ever be the sort of price inflation we have seen for other Banksy items.
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by artforartssake on Jan 28, 2021 17:24:01 GMT 1, Still hoping for some advice on this, anyone bought or sold recently? Or is it a case of give it to Tate Ward and they'll sell it for £5k ;-) First edition without dustwrapper widely available at £130 and upwards. If selling, I would expect less than £100.
With dustwrapper in this condition somewhere between £150 and £500 - probably closer to the lower end for a quick sale. Depends how long you are prepared to wait, of course. Still significantly more than this would have sold for a couple of years ago. However, I don't think there will ever be the sort of price inflation we have seen for other Banksy items.
Strange how those that post less often seem to contribute more 
Still hoping for some advice on this, anyone bought or sold recently? Or is it a case of give it to Tate Ward and they'll sell it for £5k ;-) First edition without dustwrapper widely available at £130 and upwards. If selling, I would expect less than £100.
With dustwrapper in this condition somewhere between £150 and £500 - probably closer to the lower end for a quick sale. Depends how long you are prepared to wait, of course. Still significantly more than this would have sold for a couple of years ago. However, I don't think there will ever be the sort of price inflation we have seen for other Banksy items.
Brilliant, thank you trapnel1. Something solid for me to pass on to help manage expectations. Strange how those that post less often seem to contribute more |
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 23:36:08 GMT 1, It looks fake to me
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FЯ
Full Member
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May 2013
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by FЯ on Jan 29, 2021 0:21:05 GMT 1,
looks fine, ikea version.
stone is right as well
looks fine, ikea version. stone is right as well |
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Coach on Jan 29, 2021 0:29:54 GMT 1, looks fine, ikea version. stone is right as well
By ikea version, do you mean in ikea frame? Or is there any other difference so far as the print is concerned?
looks fine, ikea version. stone is right as well By ikea version, do you mean in ikea frame? Or is there any other difference so far as the print is concerned? |
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FЯ
Full Member
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May 2013
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by FЯ on Jan 29, 2021 0:39:16 GMT 1, looks fine, ikea version. stone is right as well By ikea version, do you mean in ikea frame? Or is there any other difference so far as the print is concerned?
Well i dont mean meatballs.
looks fine, ikea version. stone is right as well By ikea version, do you mean in ikea frame? Or is there any other difference so far as the print is concerned? Well i dont mean meatballs. |
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Coach on Jan 29, 2021 0:51:06 GMT 1, By ikea version, do you mean in ikea frame? Or is there any other difference so far as the print is concerned? Well i dont mean meatballs.
Not quite what I was asking. I have a box set that isn’t in an ikea frame.
I was wondering whether there is any difference between what you describe as the ikea version and the others, other than the frame. I don’t have an IKEA version to compare mine with.
By ikea version, do you mean in ikea frame? Or is there any other difference so far as the print is concerned? Well i dont mean meatballs. Not quite what I was asking. I have a box set that isn’t in an ikea frame. I was wondering whether there is any difference between what you describe as the ikea version and the others, other than the frame. I don’t have an IKEA version to compare mine with. |
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irl1
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December 2017
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by irl1 on Jan 29, 2021 0:55:07 GMT 1, Well i dont mean meatballs. Not quite what I was asking. I have a box set that isn’t in an ikea frame. I was wondering whether there is any difference between what you describe as the ikea version and the others, other than the frame. I don’t have an IKEA version to compare mine with.
Well i dont mean meatballs. Not quite what I was asking. I have a box set that isn’t in an ikea frame. I was wondering whether there is any difference between what you describe as the ikea version and the others, other than the frame. I don’t have an IKEA version to compare mine with. The print is the same in both |
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Coach on Jan 29, 2021 0:59:50 GMT 1, Not quite what I was asking. I have a box set that isn’t in an ikea frame. I was wondering whether there is any difference between what you describe as the ikea version and the others, other than the frame. I don’t have an IKEA version to compare mine with. The print is the same in both
Good to know.
Is the stone/faux stone the same too?
I’ve seen ones with different colours. Is that the difference between ikea ones and the others?
Not quite what I was asking. I have a box set that isn’t in an ikea frame. I was wondering whether there is any difference between what you describe as the ikea version and the others, other than the frame. I don’t have an IKEA version to compare mine with. The print is the same in both Good to know. Is the stone/faux stone the same too? I’ve seen ones with different colours. Is that the difference between ikea ones and the others? |
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irl1
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by irl1 on Jan 29, 2021 1:09:07 GMT 1, The print is the same in both Good to know. Is the stone/faux stone the same too? I’ve seen ones with different colours. Is that the difference between ikea ones and the others?
Not too sure if the stone changed but early ones were more grey with Red/Green/Black, and later ones seemed to have the white along with the Red/Green/Black on them. (some have 1, 2 or 3 colours on the stone)
The print is the same in both Good to know. Is the stone/faux stone the same too? I’ve seen ones with different colours. Is that the difference between ikea ones and the others? Not too sure if the stone changed but early ones were more grey with Red/Green/Black, and later ones seemed to have the white along with the Red/Green/Black on them. (some have 1, 2 or 3 colours on the stone) |
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Coach on Jan 29, 2021 1:24:54 GMT 1, Good to know. Is the stone/faux stone the same too? I’ve seen ones with different colours. Is that the difference between ikea ones and the others? Not too sure if the stone changed but early ones were more grey with Red/Green/Black, and later ones seemed to have the white along with the Red/Green/Black on them. (some have 1, 2 or 3 colours on the stone)
That’s interesting. Mine has red and green daubs on the stone with white paint too. No black though.
Do you think some are more desirable than others or at the end of the day, are they pretty much all the same print?
Good to know. Is the stone/faux stone the same too? I’ve seen ones with different colours. Is that the difference between ikea ones and the others? Not too sure if the stone changed but early ones were more grey with Red/Green/Black, and later ones seemed to have the white along with the Red/Green/Black on them. (some have 1, 2 or 3 colours on the stone) That’s interesting. Mine has red and green daubs on the stone with white paint too. No black though. Do you think some are more desirable than others or at the end of the day, are they pretty much all the same print? |
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irl1
Full Member
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December 2017
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by irl1 on Jan 29, 2021 1:55:46 GMT 1, Not too sure if the stone changed but early ones were more grey with Red/Green/Black, and later ones seemed to have the white along with the Red/Green/Black on them. (some have 1, 2 or 3 colours on the stone) That’s interesting. Mine has red and green daubs on the stone with white paint too. No black though. Do you think some are more desirable than others or at the end of the day, are they pretty much all the same print?
Not too sure if the stone changed but early ones were more grey with Red/Green/Black, and later ones seemed to have the white along with the Red/Green/Black on them. (some have 1, 2 or 3 colours on the stone) That’s interesting. Mine has red and green daubs on the stone with white paint too. No black though. Do you think some are more desirable than others or at the end of the day, are they pretty much all the same print? All much the same but I have seen some looking for the 3 colours, as it's the colours of the Palestine flag |
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Coach on Jan 29, 2021 2:00:58 GMT 1, That’s interesting. Mine has red and green daubs on the stone with white paint too. No black though. Do you think some are more desirable than others or at the end of the day, are they pretty much all the same print? All much the same but I have seen some looking for the 3 colours, as it's the colours of the Palestine flag
Fair enough. Perhaps then some are indeed more desirable than others. I still tend to think that they are lovely things that all ought to be enjoyed for what they are; perhaps even with a nod to the political point they intended to make, rather than value (or even comparable value between different versions).
That’s interesting. Mine has red and green daubs on the stone with white paint too. No black though. Do you think some are more desirable than others or at the end of the day, are they pretty much all the same print? All much the same but I have seen some looking for the 3 colours, as it's the colours of the Palestine flag Fair enough. Perhaps then some are indeed more desirable than others. I still tend to think that they are lovely things that all ought to be enjoyed for what they are; perhaps even with a nod to the political point they intended to make, rather than value (or even comparable value between different versions). |
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Pipes
Junior Member
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January 2012
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Pipes on Jan 29, 2021 3:24:36 GMT 1, I've been away for a little while and have a few questions 1) What is the current value (insurance) of Very Little Helps and Sale Ends v2? 2) Peckham Rock, what's with that? £200-£300? Really? 3) Soup Can Posters, around £1K?
Been away and created a whole lot of Anon followers !!
I've been away for a little while and have a few questions 1) What is the current value (insurance) of Very Little Helps and Sale Ends v2? 2) Peckham Rock, what's with that? £200-£300? Really? 3) Soup Can Posters, around £1K? Been away and created a whole lot of Anon followers !! |
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Twister
New Member
🗨️ 46
👍🏻 29
January 2021
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Twister on Jan 29, 2021 9:31:17 GMT 1, looks fine, ikea version. stone is right as well
looks fine, ikea version. stone is right as well Thanks 👍🏻 |
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by rudecopper83 on Jan 29, 2021 15:45:40 GMT 1, Hi all, I'm looking to understand what the current market value is for an unsigned morons (POW edition) is? It might place for sale in April.
Hi all, I'm looking to understand what the current market value is for an unsigned morons (POW edition) is? It might place for sale in April.
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urbanflik
New Member
🗨️ 484
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February 2010
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by urbanflik on Jan 29, 2021 16:16:00 GMT 1, Any ideas on signed Love Rat and signed Barcode or is banksy-value on point with these?
I'm looking to acquire.
thanks in advance...
Any ideas on signed Love Rat and signed Barcode or is banksy-value on point with these?
I'm looking to acquire.
thanks in advance...
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hnkpnk
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,344
👍🏻 1,423
July 2011
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by hnkpnk on Jan 29, 2021 19:05:38 GMT 1, By ikea version, do you mean in ikea frame? Or is there any other difference so far as the print is concerned? Well i dont mean meatballs.
I agree it looks right, but the ikea frame was used in the very beginning and they only started the numbering on the back much later. So something is off.
By ikea version, do you mean in ikea frame? Or is there any other difference so far as the print is concerned? Well i dont mean meatballs. Always the asshole. I agree it looks right, but the ikea frame was used in the very beginning and they only started the numbering on the back much later. So something is off. |
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Terry Fuckwitt on Jan 29, 2021 19:12:59 GMT 1, Well i dont mean meatballs. Always the asshole. I agree it looks right, but the ikea frame was used in the very beginning and they only started the numbering on the back much later. So something is off.
Good spot! Didn't even notice that.
Well i dont mean meatballs. Always the asshole. I agree it looks right, but the ikea frame was used in the very beginning and they only started the numbering on the back much later. So something is off. Good spot! Didn't even notice that. |
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wazandy
New Member
🗨️ 131
👍🏻 8
September 2006
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by wazandy on Feb 1, 2021 4:26:01 GMT 1, Afternoon all.
Might look to shift one of these in the next few weeks:
Barcode. Unsigned
Jack and Jill: Unsigned
Happy Choppers: Unsigned
Colour Trolleys: signed
All with Pest.
Any idea of good prices for ‘em?
Might shift J&J first.
Afternoon all.
Might look to shift one of these in the next few weeks:
Barcode. Unsigned
Jack and Jill: Unsigned
Happy Choppers: Unsigned
Colour Trolleys: signed
All with Pest.
Any idea of good prices for ‘em?
Might shift J&J first.
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NOLA
New Member
🗨️ 27
👍🏻 13
January 2021
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by NOLA on Feb 1, 2021 17:16:19 GMT 1, Afternoon all. Might look to shift one of these in the next few weeks: Barcode. Unsigned Jack and Jill: Unsigned Happy Choppers: Unsigned Colour Trolleys: signed All with Pest. Any idea of good prices for ‘em? Might shift J&J first.
Barcode. Unsigned £50-70
Jack and Jill: Unsigned £32-40k -
Happy Choppers: Unsigned £48-60K
Colour Trolleys: signed £60-80K
Afternoon all. Might look to shift one of these in the next few weeks: Barcode. Unsigned Jack and Jill: Unsigned Happy Choppers: Unsigned Colour Trolleys: signed All with Pest. Any idea of good prices for ‘em? Might shift J&J first. Auction estimates: Barcode. Unsigned £50-70 Jack and Jill: Unsigned £32-40k - Happy Choppers: Unsigned £48-60K Colour Trolleys: signed £60-80K |
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paulsil
New Member
🗨️ 23
👍🏻 0
August 2007
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by paulsil on Feb 1, 2021 19:38:05 GMT 1, I may need to sell the following Bomb middle England, Queen Vic and Laugh Now, all unsigned low numbered in excellent condition and with pest Control certs. Believe me this is something I don't want to do, but a potential business opportunity has arose which I need finance for hence the possibility of selling my prints to fund the new project.
I've just approached Sotheby's for their valuation (I do need max possible money for them) so I could potentially put them into their sale, they have come back with valuations of 7 - 9k fo BME, 15-20k Queen Vic and 12-18K Laugh now.
Am I missing something !!!
I have been keeping an eye on auction prints over the last year, and have kept up to date with Banksy print value.com.as probably everyone else has on this forum.
I may need to sell the following Bomb middle England, Queen Vic and Laugh Now, all unsigned low numbered in excellent condition and with pest Control certs. Believe me this is something I don't want to do, but a potential business opportunity has arose which I need finance for hence the possibility of selling my prints to fund the new project.
I've just approached Sotheby's for their valuation (I do need max possible money for them) so I could potentially put them into their sale, they have come back with valuations of 7 - 9k fo BME, 15-20k Queen Vic and 12-18K Laugh now.
Am I missing something !!!
I have been keeping an eye on auction prints over the last year, and have kept up to date with Banksy print value.com.as probably everyone else has on this forum.
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Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Deleted on Feb 1, 2021 19:40:38 GMT 1, I may need to sell the following Bomb middle England, Queen Vic and Laugh Now, all unsigned low numbered in excellent condition and with pest Control certs. Believe me this is something I don't want to do, but a potential business opportunity has arose which I need finance for hence the possibility of selling my prints to fund the new project. I've just approached Sotheby's for their valuation (I do need max possible money for them) so I could potentially put them into their sale, they have come back with valuations of 7 - 9k fo Bomb Middle England, 15-20k Queen Vic and 12-18K Laugh now. Am I missing something !!! I have been keeping an eye on auction prints over the last year, and have kept up to date with Banksy print value.com.as probably everyone else has on this forum.
Auction estimate is completely different to value. Estimates are always low and there to encourage bidders, it's not a valuation on their worth.
Go to some of the galleries for a valuation showing your interest to sell and you'll get a different set of numbers.
I may need to sell the following Bomb middle England, Queen Vic and Laugh Now, all unsigned low numbered in excellent condition and with pest Control certs. Believe me this is something I don't want to do, but a potential business opportunity has arose which I need finance for hence the possibility of selling my prints to fund the new project. I've just approached Sotheby's for their valuation (I do need max possible money for them) so I could potentially put them into their sale, they have come back with valuations of 7 - 9k fo Bomb Middle England, 15-20k Queen Vic and 12-18K Laugh now. Am I missing something !!! I have been keeping an eye on auction prints over the last year, and have kept up to date with Banksy print value.com.as probably everyone else has on this forum. Auction estimate is completely different to value. Estimates are always low and there to encourage bidders, it's not a valuation on their worth. Go to some of the galleries for a valuation showing your interest to sell and you'll get a different set of numbers. |
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irl1
Full Member
🗨️ 9,274
👍🏻 9,381
December 2017
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by irl1 on Feb 1, 2021 20:14:36 GMT 1, I may need to sell the following Bomb middle England, Queen Vic and Laugh Now, all unsigned low numbered in excellent condition and with pest Control certs. Believe me this is something I don't want to do, but a potential business opportunity has arose which I need finance for hence the possibility of selling my prints to fund the new project. I've just approached Sotheby's for their valuation (I do need max possible money for them) so I could potentially put them into their sale, they have come back with valuations of 7 - 9k fo Bomb Middle England, 15-20k Queen Vic and 12-18K Laugh now. Am I missing something !!! I have been keeping an eye on auction prints over the last year, and have kept up to date with Banksy print value.com.as probably everyone else has on this forum.
The big 3 like to brag about their sell through rate after auctions, which is dishonest because they have silly low estimates.
Check the estimates on these sold lots in Sotheby's
www.sothebys.com/en/search?query=Banksy&tab=objects
I may need to sell the following Bomb middle England, Queen Vic and Laugh Now, all unsigned low numbered in excellent condition and with pest Control certs. Believe me this is something I don't want to do, but a potential business opportunity has arose which I need finance for hence the possibility of selling my prints to fund the new project. I've just approached Sotheby's for their valuation (I do need max possible money for them) so I could potentially put them into their sale, they have come back with valuations of 7 - 9k fo Bomb Middle England, 15-20k Queen Vic and 12-18K Laugh now. Am I missing something !!! I have been keeping an eye on auction prints over the last year, and have kept up to date with Banksy print value.com.as probably everyone else has on this forum. The big 3 like to brag about their sell through rate after auctions, which is dishonest because they have silly low estimates. Check the estimates on these sold lots in Sotheby's www.sothebys.com/en/search?query=Banksy&tab=objects |
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Reader
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,271
👍🏻 2,826
June 2016
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Banksy Artwork, VALUATION, by Reader on Feb 1, 2021 21:02:41 GMT 1, I may need to sell the following Bomb middle England, Queen Vic and Laugh Now, all unsigned low numbered in excellent condition and with pest Control certs. Believe me this is something I don't want to do, but a potential business opportunity has arose which I need finance for hence the possibility of selling my prints to fund the new project. I've just approached Sotheby's for their valuation (I do need max possible money for them) so I could potentially put them into their sale, they have come back with valuations of 7 - 9k fo Bomb Middle England, 15-20k Queen Vic and 12-18K Laugh now. Am I missing something !!! I have been keeping an eye on auction prints over the last year, and have kept up to date with Banksy print value.com.as probably everyone else has on this forum. The big 3 like to brag about their sell through rate after auctions, which is dishonest because they have silly low estimates. Check the estimates on these sold lots in Sotheby's www.sothebys.com/en/search?query=Banksy&tab=objects
I may need to sell the following Bomb middle England, Queen Vic and Laugh Now, all unsigned low numbered in excellent condition and with pest Control certs. Believe me this is something I don't want to do, but a potential business opportunity has arose which I need finance for hence the possibility of selling my prints to fund the new project. I've just approached Sotheby's for their valuation (I do need max possible money for them) so I could potentially put them into their sale, they have come back with valuations of 7 - 9k fo Bomb Middle England, 15-20k Queen Vic and 12-18K Laugh now. Am I missing something !!! I have been keeping an eye on auction prints over the last year, and have kept up to date with Banksy print value.com.as probably everyone else has on this forum. The big 3 like to brag about their sell through rate after auctions, which is dishonest because they have silly low estimates. Check the estimates on these sold lots in Sotheby's www.sothebys.com/en/search?query=Banksy&tab=objectsThey've also introduced a 1% "performance" rate on the sale price above the high estimate. So the lower they list it, the more they make from the sellers end and not just the buyers. |
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