Harveyn
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Member is Online
July 2007
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Harveyn on Jun 2, 2016 16:01:00 GMT 1, Well I am with the vote in campaign. That said I am tempted to vote out just to see the mess they make of creating an effective border between the north and south of Ireland. It would also be funny to see the penny finally dropped with the DUP when they realise border control is not actually a problem when the UK take the opportunity to wash their hands of the issue resulting in one giant step forward to a united Ireland.
By the way my vote to stay in is not any objection to a united Ireland, actually far from it. Its based on my opinion it will have a huge financial impact on the UK for many years to come.
I hear a significant amount of discussion by the Brexit campaign about taking back control with a large element of discussion centred around the control of immigration. I hear people talking about the loss of our cultural identity.
The loss of cultural identify is a worldwide scenario and its not because of the freedom to move within the EU. Technology and globalization has caused this to happen. We invented planes, trains and automobiles and then made it damn cheap to travel the globe. It is not just immigrants who have an effect on cultural identity. Its also effected by tourism and maybe even more so at certain times of the year.
Maybe we need to focus on creating new identities rather than resisting an immovable force. Embrace the change as believe it or not the good old days were not always that good.
Yes migration is a problem. Its a problem in terms of how each country supports the freedom of movement that is a human right or if not should at least be aspirational. Its how each country ensures the infrastructure is there to support that aspiration. So yes it needs managed and controlled but for me its a collective problem which can only be resolved or supported by the collective.
We need to stay within the EU and as a collective drive the changes needed to make this happen / work.
Well I am with the vote in campaign. That said I am tempted to vote out just to see the mess they make of creating an effective border between the north and south of Ireland. It would also be funny to see the penny finally dropped with the DUP when they realise border control is not actually a problem when the UK take the opportunity to wash their hands of the issue resulting in one giant step forward to a united Ireland.
By the way my vote to stay in is not any objection to a united Ireland, actually far from it. Its based on my opinion it will have a huge financial impact on the UK for many years to come.
I hear a significant amount of discussion by the Brexit campaign about taking back control with a large element of discussion centred around the control of immigration. I hear people talking about the loss of our cultural identity.
The loss of cultural identify is a worldwide scenario and its not because of the freedom to move within the EU. Technology and globalization has caused this to happen. We invented planes, trains and automobiles and then made it damn cheap to travel the globe. It is not just immigrants who have an effect on cultural identity. Its also effected by tourism and maybe even more so at certain times of the year.
Maybe we need to focus on creating new identities rather than resisting an immovable force. Embrace the change as believe it or not the good old days were not always that good.
Yes migration is a problem. Its a problem in terms of how each country supports the freedom of movement that is a human right or if not should at least be aspirational. Its how each country ensures the infrastructure is there to support that aspiration. So yes it needs managed and controlled but for me its a collective problem which can only be resolved or supported by the collective.
We need to stay within the EU and as a collective drive the changes needed to make this happen / work.
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Harveyn
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,746
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Member is Online
July 2007
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Coach on Jun 2, 2016 17:02:22 GMT 1,
He's saying that Scotland want to be in the EU.
So if the UK vote to leave, that is a strong reason (a significant change of circumstances) for there to be another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK, so that they can remain in the EU.
He's saying that Scotland want to be in the EU. So if the UK vote to leave, that is a strong reason (a significant change of circumstances) for there to be another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK, so that they can remain in the EU. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 17:02:33 GMT 1, I hear a significant amount of discussion by the Brexit campaign about taking back control with a large element of discussion centred around the control of immigration. I hear people talking about the loss of our cultural identity. The loss of cultural identify is a worldwide scenario and its not because of the freedom to move within the EU. Technology and globalization has caused this to happen. We invented planes, trains and automobiles and then made it damn cheap to travel the globe. It is not just immigrants who have an effect on cultural identity. Its also effected by tourism and maybe even more so at certain times of the year. Maybe we need to focus on creating new identities rather than resisting an immovable force. Embrace the change as believe it or not the good old days were not always that good. Yes migration is a problem. Its a problem in terms of how each country supports the freedom of movement that is a human right or if not should at least be aspirational. Its how each country ensures the infrastructure is there to support that aspiration. So yes it needs managed and controlled but for me its a collective problem which can only be resolved or supported by the collective. We need to stay within the EU and as a collective drive the changes needed to make this happen / work.
The Leave campaign is certainly doing its gung-ho best to provide a flag-waving platform of hate for those in the UK who carry the burden of nostalgia for war and empire.
Yes, thereโs lots to change about the lack of transparency and democracy of the current elitist EU, and Iโve a lot of time for some of the arguments about leaving the current form of the EU for this reason. But as long as there are promising organisations such as dIEM25 (who are campaigning for a democratic Europe by 2025), it seems perfectly rational to me to continue pursuing the EU's ambitious postwar plan to collectively rid our continent of war and fascism.
I hear a significant amount of discussion by the Brexit campaign about taking back control with a large element of discussion centred around the control of immigration. I hear people talking about the loss of our cultural identity. The loss of cultural identify is a worldwide scenario and its not because of the freedom to move within the EU. Technology and globalization has caused this to happen. We invented planes, trains and automobiles and then made it damn cheap to travel the globe. It is not just immigrants who have an effect on cultural identity. Its also effected by tourism and maybe even more so at certain times of the year. Maybe we need to focus on creating new identities rather than resisting an immovable force. Embrace the change as believe it or not the good old days were not always that good. Yes migration is a problem. Its a problem in terms of how each country supports the freedom of movement that is a human right or if not should at least be aspirational. Its how each country ensures the infrastructure is there to support that aspiration. So yes it needs managed and controlled but for me its a collective problem which can only be resolved or supported by the collective. We need to stay within the EU and as a collective drive the changes needed to make this happen / work. The Leave campaign is certainly doing its gung-ho best to provide a flag-waving platform of hate for those in the UK who carry the burden of nostalgia for war and empire. Yes, thereโs lots to change about the lack of transparency and democracy of the current elitist EU, and Iโve a lot of time for some of the arguments about leaving the current form of the EU for this reason. But as long as there are promising organisations such as dIEM25 (who are campaigning for a democratic Europe by 2025), it seems perfectly rational to me to continue pursuing the EU's ambitious postwar plan to collectively rid our continent of war and fascism. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 17:14:28 GMT 1, Looks like LEAVE is edging ahead in most of the recent polls.  Some have said that this is because of the recent migration figures. Matt Singh, of number cruncher, on radio 4's PM a little while ago said beware of sudden swings. Public opinion usually swings slowly. The recent polls could be swayed just by the fact that they were conducted over the bank hol weekend when many people are away. He said the same thing happened before the general election at the Easter bank holiday.
I've little understanding of peoples interest in opinion polls, betting odds provide a far better clue to the outcome of elections and referendums than opinion polls. You only have to look at last year's general election to see that.
Most bookmakers are currently offering odds of around 1/4 to remain, and around 11/4 to leave, meaning they expect remaining in the EU to be the most likely result of the referendum.
And even with such short odds to remain, bookies are reporting a greater number of bets being placed on remaining than leaving. On the Betfair betting exchange for example, the probability they suggest of a remain vote has risen from about 65% a month ago to nearly 80% now.
Looks like LEAVE is edging ahead in most of the recent polls. Some have said that this is because of the recent migration figures. Matt Singh, of number cruncher, on radio 4's PM a little while ago said beware of sudden swings. Public opinion usually swings slowly. The recent polls could be swayed just by the fact that they were conducted over the bank hol weekend when many people are away. He said the same thing happened before the general election at the Easter bank holiday. I've little understanding of peoples interest in opinion polls, betting odds provide a far better clue to the outcome of elections and referendums than opinion polls. You only have to look at last year's general election to see that. Most bookmakers are currently offering odds of around 1/4 to remain, and around 11/4 to leave, meaning they expect remaining in the EU to be the most likely result of the referendum. And even with such short odds to remain, bookies are reporting a greater number of bets being placed on remaining than leaving. On the Betfair betting exchange for example, the probability they suggest of a remain vote has risen from about 65% a month ago to nearly 80% now. |
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Daniel Silk on Jun 2, 2016 17:29:53 GMT 1, He's saying that Scotland want to be in the EU. So if the UK vote to leave, that is a strong reason (a significant change of circumstances) for there to be another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK, so that they can remain in the EU.
Yep, I can see the sense in that, but if Scotland want more control over its laws, budget and economy I don't understand why they seem to think being controlled by the EU is better than what they see as Westminster control.
I prefer Scotland to stay in the UK, but if they really want to leave then it's up to them 
I wonder what the outcome of a vote in Scotland would be given a choice of Westminster or EU control? It just feels like it's being packaged like vote on Independence for Scotland when I don't think that honestly reflects the outcome.
He's saying that Scotland want to be in the EU. So if the UK vote to leave, that is a strong reason (a significant change of circumstances) for there to be another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK, so that they can remain in the EU. Yep, I can see the sense in that, but if Scotland want more control over its laws, budget and economy I don't understand why they seem to think being controlled by the EU is better than what they see as Westminster control. I prefer Scotland to stay in the UK, but if they really want to leave then it's up to them I wonder what the outcome of a vote in Scotland would be given a choice of Westminster or EU control? It just feels like it's being packaged like vote on Independence for Scotland when I don't think that honestly reflects the outcome. |
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,965
๐๐ป 2,902
December 2007
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Cornish Crayon on Jun 2, 2016 17:29:58 GMT 1, Simple answer is, the government want us to remain purely because they know if we leave there are more opportunities for the joe public to to take control of Britain once more and become a strong figure once more in society, and the government in power will have to listen otherwise the UK will act ( we love a good ol fashion disorder/Riot in the UK )
Undecided.
Simple answer is, the government want us to remain purely because they know if we leave there are more opportunities for the joe public to to take control of Britain once more and become a strong figure once more in society, and the government in power will have to listen otherwise the UK will act ( we love a good ol fashion disorder/Riot in the UK )
Undecided.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 17:42:42 GMT 1, 
Antony Gormley
"The European project is creative, an opportunity to exercise imagination. It is the present form of the ongoing dynamic between geography and tribe. We have always been part of this evolving story and need to stay part of it. Britain has key role to play in the European parliament, commission and councils. They are our opportunity to contribute to a collective future that is the result of much sacrifice."
Antony Gormley "The European project is creative, an opportunity to exercise imagination. It is the present form of the ongoing dynamic between geography and tribe. We have always been part of this evolving story and need to stay part of it. Britain has key role to play in the European parliament, commission and councils. They are our opportunity to contribute to a collective future that is the result of much sacrifice." |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 17:50:05 GMT 1, Simple answer is, the government want us to remain purely because they know if we leave there are more opportunities for the joe public to to take control of Britain once more and become a strong figure once more in society, and the government in power will have to listen otherwise the UK will act ( we love a good ol fashion disorder/Riot in the UK ) Undecided.
The vote leave campaign is championed by many of the worst right-wing political figures in the UK (not to mention Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen and Vladimir Putin) those who want to shut us off both socially and politically.
Simple answer is, the government want us to remain purely because they know if we leave there are more opportunities for the joe public to to take control of Britain once more and become a strong figure once more in society, and the government in power will have to listen otherwise the UK will act ( we love a good ol fashion disorder/Riot in the UK ) Undecided. The vote leave campaign is championed by many of the worst right-wing political figures in the UK (not to mention Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen and Vladimir Putin) those who want to shut us off both socially and politically. |
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,965
๐๐ป 2,902
December 2007
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Cornish Crayon on Jun 2, 2016 18:41:56 GMT 1, Simple answer is, the government want us to remain purely because they know if we leave there are more opportunities for the joe public to to take control of Britain once more and become a strong figure once more in society, and the government in power will have to listen otherwise the UK will act ( we love a good ol fashion disorder/Riot in the UK ) Undecided. The vote leave campaign is championed by many of the worst right-wing political figures in the UK (not to mention Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen and Vladimir Putin) those who want to shut us off both socially and politically.
And your point is.........  lol
Simple answer is, the government want us to remain purely because they know if we leave there are more opportunities for the joe public to to take control of Britain once more and become a strong figure once more in society, and the government in power will have to listen otherwise the UK will act ( we love a good ol fashion disorder/Riot in the UK ) Undecided. The vote leave campaign is championed by many of the worst right-wing political figures in the UK (not to mention Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen and Vladimir Putin) those who want to shut us off both socially and politically. And your point is......... lol |
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rbk
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 196
๐๐ป 168
March 2015
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by rbk on Jun 2, 2016 19:23:31 GMT 1, must say I am for out. The EU is a shambles and its attempted growth is creating massive problems across Europe.
It is an undemocratic super state. Border control is an issue for the UK. both in terms of numbers and security. This does not mean and nor should it no immigration but immigration to a relatively small island should be managed.
much of the talk on the consequences of exit are just plainly not true. Britain will still have people and trade with Europe. We have that with the rest of the world so it will make no difference. Europe will not enter a trade war with the UK and vice versa. Europe needs the UK for its contributions so will do a deal and Brittain will still contribute to Europe. So I actually believe it will in reality have little effect on Trade either way. Germany is both the banker and industrial leader of Europe. If it stops trading with the UK its business will be hit hard plus it will also end up responsible for replacing the Britains contribution to Europe as it is the only one who can afford it.
So Germany will solve that deal because it has to. Britain will contribute because it also needs to trade with Europe.
So most of the scare stories about exit and all the cash that will be saved will not happen. Life will probably go as normal with the exception of border control and our acceptance of daft European laws although you will find in general we will follow a lot of what goes on.
However numbers of people coming into Britain will be reduced both from in and outside the EU as there is an issue with coping with migration numbers. That does not mean no migration it means managed migration numbers which is correct in my view.
must say I am for out. The EU is a shambles and its attempted growth is creating massive problems across Europe.
It is an undemocratic super state. Border control is an issue for the UK. both in terms of numbers and security. This does not mean and nor should it no immigration but immigration to a relatively small island should be managed.
much of the talk on the consequences of exit are just plainly not true. Britain will still have people and trade with Europe. We have that with the rest of the world so it will make no difference. Europe will not enter a trade war with the UK and vice versa. Europe needs the UK for its contributions so will do a deal and Brittain will still contribute to Europe. So I actually believe it will in reality have little effect on Trade either way. Germany is both the banker and industrial leader of Europe. If it stops trading with the UK its business will be hit hard plus it will also end up responsible for replacing the Britains contribution to Europe as it is the only one who can afford it.
So Germany will solve that deal because it has to. Britain will contribute because it also needs to trade with Europe.
So most of the scare stories about exit and all the cash that will be saved will not happen. Life will probably go as normal with the exception of border control and our acceptance of daft European laws although you will find in general we will follow a lot of what goes on.
However numbers of people coming into Britain will be reduced both from in and outside the EU as there is an issue with coping with migration numbers. That does not mean no migration it means managed migration numbers which is correct in my view.
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Coach on Jun 2, 2016 20:17:46 GMT 1, He's saying that Scotland want to be in the EU. So if the UK vote to leave, that is a strong reason (a significant change of circumstances) for there to be another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK, so that they can remain in the EU. Yep, I can see the sense in that, but if Scotland want more control over its laws, budget and economy I don't understand why they seem to think being controlled by the EU is better than what they see as Westminster control. I prefer Scotland to stay in the UK, but if they really want to leave then it's up to them I wonder what the outcome of a vote in Scotland would be given a choice of Westminster or EU control? It just feels like it's being packaged like vote on Independence for Scotland when I don't think that honestly reflects the outcome.
The phrase which is wrong is "controlled by the EU".
He's saying that Scotland want to be in the EU. So if the UK vote to leave, that is a strong reason (a significant change of circumstances) for there to be another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK, so that they can remain in the EU. Yep, I can see the sense in that, but if Scotland want more control over its laws, budget and economy I don't understand why they seem to think being controlled by the EU is better than what they see as Westminster control. I prefer Scotland to stay in the UK, but if they really want to leave then it's up to them I wonder what the outcome of a vote in Scotland would be given a choice of Westminster or EU control? It just feels like it's being packaged like vote on Independence for Scotland when I don't think that honestly reflects the outcome. The phrase which is wrong is "controlled by the EU". |
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Daniel Silk on Jun 2, 2016 20:23:03 GMT 1, Yep, I can see the sense in that, but if Scotland want more control over its laws, budget and economy I don't understand why they seem to think being controlled by the EU is better than what they see as Westminster control. I prefer Scotland to stay in the UK, but if they really want to leave then it's up to them I wonder what the outcome of a vote in Scotland would be given a choice of Westminster or EU control? It just feels like it's being packaged like vote on Independence for Scotland when I don't think that honestly reflects the outcome. The phrase which is wrong is "controlled by the EU".
I think it will become less "wrong" as the years pass
Yep, I can see the sense in that, but if Scotland want more control over its laws, budget and economy I don't understand why they seem to think being controlled by the EU is better than what they see as Westminster control. I prefer Scotland to stay in the UK, but if they really want to leave then it's up to them I wonder what the outcome of a vote in Scotland would be given a choice of Westminster or EU control? It just feels like it's being packaged like vote on Independence for Scotland when I don't think that honestly reflects the outcome. The phrase which is wrong is "controlled by the EU". I think it will become less "wrong" as the years pass |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 20:31:57 GMT 1, However numbers of people coming into Britain will be reduced both from in and outside the EU as there is an issue with coping with migration numbers. That does not mean no migration it means managed migration numbers which is correct in my view.
Also, do you not think that if the UK is the intended destination of so many migrants European countries would just give them free passage? Wouldn't they just let them through as it would save them the hassle?
If the UK is not prepared to face its responsibilities and just leave an organisation that has a huge problem, how do you think we will be viewed and then treated? Yes, the issue of migration is problematic, but its problematic for lots of countries, not just the UK. Running away won't help us, or the EU; and it won't go away by us doing so.
And as Harveyn touched on earlier, the ROI is still in Europe, so what's to stop migrants just walking across the border into Northern Ireland?
For some bizarre reason, those who want the UK to leave seem to think that those that are championing it are the great saviours of the country. Strange times indeed.
However numbers of people coming into Britain will be reduced both from in and outside the EU as there is an issue with coping with migration numbers. That does not mean no migration it means managed migration numbers which is correct in my view. Can you explain how numbers will be reduced? And how it will be managed? Also, do you not think that if the UK is the intended destination of so many migrants European countries would just give them free passage? Wouldn't they just let them through as it would save them the hassle? If the UK is not prepared to face its responsibilities and just leave an organisation that has a huge problem, how do you think we will be viewed and then treated? Yes, the issue of migration is problematic, but its problematic for lots of countries, not just the UK. Running away won't help us, or the EU; and it won't go away by us doing so. And as Harveyn touched on earlier, the ROI is still in Europe, so what's to stop migrants just walking across the border into Northern Ireland? For some bizarre reason, those who want the UK to leave seem to think that those that are championing it are the great saviours of the country. Strange times indeed. |
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Daniel Silk on Jun 2, 2016 20:34:24 GMT 1, The phrase which is wrong is "controlled by the EU". I think it will become less "wrong" as the years pass
Also could it not be said, if we are not "controlled by the EU" what is its purpose? What does it actually do?
The phrase which is wrong is "controlled by the EU". I think it will become less "wrong" as the years pass Also could it not be said, if we are not "controlled by the EU" what is its purpose? What does it actually do? |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 20:38:46 GMT 1, I think it will become less "wrong" as the years pass Also could it not be said, if we are not "controlled by the EU" what is its purpose? What does it actually do?
I think it will become less "wrong" as the years pass Also could it not be said, if we are not "controlled by the EU" what is its purpose? What does it actually do? There is difference between 'controlled' and introducing legislation that is beneficial to the population as a whole. For example, legislation on the treatment of animals. That's not being 'controlled', that's what we should be doing to make our world more humane. |
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rbk
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 196
๐๐ป 168
March 2015
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by rbk on Jun 2, 2016 22:15:11 GMT 1, However numbers of people coming into Britain will be reduced both from in and outside the EU as there is an issue with coping with migration numbers. That does not mean no migration it means managed migration numbers which is correct in my view. Can you explain how numbers will be reduced? And how it will be managed? Also, do you not think that if the UK is the intended destination of so many migrants European countries would just give them free passage? Wouldn't they just let them through as it would save them the hassle? If the UK is not prepared to face its responsibilities and just leave an organisation that has a huge problem, how do you think we will be viewed and then treated? Yes, the issue of migration is problematic, but its problematic for lots of countries, not just the UK. Running away won't help us, or the EU; and it won't go away by us doing so. And as Harveyn touched on earlier, the ROI is still in Europe, so what's to stop migrants just walking across the border into Northern Ireland? For some bizarre reason, those who want the UK to leave seem to think that those that are championing it are the great saviours of the country. Strange times indeed.
You then man your borders more strictly. if you are found without status you are deported or sent back at the border.
seems simple enough to me. Numbers are decided and managed by whatever Gov is in power not via the mad freedom of movement concept.
However numbers of people coming into Britain will be reduced both from in and outside the EU as there is an issue with coping with migration numbers. That does not mean no migration it means managed migration numbers which is correct in my view. Can you explain how numbers will be reduced? And how it will be managed? Also, do you not think that if the UK is the intended destination of so many migrants European countries would just give them free passage? Wouldn't they just let them through as it would save them the hassle? If the UK is not prepared to face its responsibilities and just leave an organisation that has a huge problem, how do you think we will be viewed and then treated? Yes, the issue of migration is problematic, but its problematic for lots of countries, not just the UK. Running away won't help us, or the EU; and it won't go away by us doing so. And as Harveyn touched on earlier, the ROI is still in Europe, so what's to stop migrants just walking across the border into Northern Ireland? For some bizarre reason, those who want the UK to leave seem to think that those that are championing it are the great saviours of the country. Strange times indeed. There is no set format. That actually is the point. Migration will be decided by whatever Government is in power. This may well change depending on each party or Government. If you use sometning like the often quoted Aussie system you take a figure say 100,000. 10,000 are nurses, 10,000 are doctors , 5000 engineers 2000 family members etcetc. So you choose immigrants to suit the needs of the country. e.g. if you do not have a prospective employer it is more difficult. e.g. you take in professionals rather than those looking for poorly paid work or benefits. You then man your borders more strictly. if you are found without status you are deported or sent back at the border. seems simple enough to me. Numbers are decided and managed by whatever Gov is in power not via the mad freedom of movement concept. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 22:40:49 GMT 1, Can you explain how numbers will be reduced? And how it will be managed? Also, do you not think that if the UK is the intended destination of so many migrants European countries would just give them free passage? Wouldn't they just let them through as it would save them the hassle? If the UK is not prepared to face its responsibilities and just leave an organisation that has a huge problem, how do you think we will be viewed and then treated? Yes, the issue of migration is problematic, but its problematic for lots of countries, not just the UK. Running away won't help us, or the EU; and it won't go away by us doing so. And as Harveyn touched on earlier, the ROI is still in Europe, so what's to stop migrants just walking across the border into Northern Ireland? For some bizarre reason, those who want the UK to leave seem to think that those that are championing it are the great saviours of the country. Strange times indeed. There is no set format. That actually is the point. Migration will be decided by whatever Government is in power. This may well change depending on each party or Government. If you use sometning like the often quoted Aussie system you take a figure say 100,000. 10,000 are nurses, 10,000 are doctors , 5000 engineers 2000 family members etcetc. So you choose immigrants to suit the needs of the country. e.g. if you do not have a prospective employer it is more difficult. e.g. you take in professionals rather than those looking for poorly paid work or benefits. You then man your borders more strictly. if you are found without status you are deported or sent back at the border. seems simple enough to me. Numbers are decided and managed by whatever Gov is in power not via the mad freedom of movement concept.
Can you explain how numbers will be reduced? And how it will be managed? Also, do you not think that if the UK is the intended destination of so many migrants European countries would just give them free passage? Wouldn't they just let them through as it would save them the hassle? If the UK is not prepared to face its responsibilities and just leave an organisation that has a huge problem, how do you think we will be viewed and then treated? Yes, the issue of migration is problematic, but its problematic for lots of countries, not just the UK. Running away won't help us, or the EU; and it won't go away by us doing so. And as Harveyn touched on earlier, the ROI is still in Europe, so what's to stop migrants just walking across the border into Northern Ireland? For some bizarre reason, those who want the UK to leave seem to think that those that are championing it are the great saviours of the country. Strange times indeed. There is no set format. That actually is the point. Migration will be decided by whatever Government is in power. This may well change depending on each party or Government. If you use sometning like the often quoted Aussie system you take a figure say 100,000. 10,000 are nurses, 10,000 are doctors , 5000 engineers 2000 family members etcetc. So you choose immigrants to suit the needs of the country. e.g. if you do not have a prospective employer it is more difficult. e.g. you take in professionals rather than those looking for poorly paid work or benefits. You then man your borders more strictly. if you are found without status you are deported or sent back at the border. seems simple enough to me. Numbers are decided and managed by whatever Gov is in power not via the mad freedom of movement concept. Good luck enforcing this idea, with the record our Govts have. I admire your confidence. |
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Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 23:42:04 GMT 1, 
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rbk
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 196
๐๐ป 168
March 2015
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by rbk on Jun 3, 2016 5:09:54 GMT 1, @xxxxx actually thats the point there is no enforcing an idea. its actually up to each elected govt. to state and manage whatever the immigration policy is. Just as they and the markets control the value of the pound.
all the daft scare stories happened when the UK did not take the Euro.. the pound would be come devalued jobs lost and we would not be able to trade with Europe etc. Yet has not been a problem and UK is one of the most successful economies.
much of this debate is just rubbish and scare stories. the only thing that is a reality is the amount of immigration which has become unmanageable for a state the size of Britain. Security is an issue as is the movement of criminals. That is not to stop immigration either. Immigration is a fact and a necessity but it just needs to be managed better.
the job of managing it is for each new govt elected e.g. Tories and labour will have different views and make different decisions on it which is actually correct regardless of what they are. Benefits and taxation etc for migrants are the role and decision making of each govt whatever they are.
@xxxxx actually thats the point there is no enforcing an idea. its actually up to each elected govt. to state and manage whatever the immigration policy is. Just as they and the markets control the value of the pound.
all the daft scare stories happened when the UK did not take the Euro.. the pound would be come devalued jobs lost and we would not be able to trade with Europe etc. Yet has not been a problem and UK is one of the most successful economies.
much of this debate is just rubbish and scare stories. the only thing that is a reality is the amount of immigration which has become unmanageable for a state the size of Britain. Security is an issue as is the movement of criminals. That is not to stop immigration either. Immigration is a fact and a necessity but it just needs to be managed better.
the job of managing it is for each new govt elected e.g. Tories and labour will have different views and make different decisions on it which is actually correct regardless of what they are. Benefits and taxation etc for migrants are the role and decision making of each govt whatever they are.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 8:32:37 GMT 1, Before the Aliens Act of 1905, the UK had no border controls to speak of. They were first erected to stop Jews coming from eastern Europe. โEngland for the English,โ was the slogan. The Manchester Evening Chronicle explained what this meant: โThat the dirty, destitute, diseased, verminous and criminal foreigner who dumps himself on our soil and rates simultaneously, shall be forbidden to land.โ
Sound familiar ?
Somethings never change. Leave, Remain..results will be the same. The wealthy few will prosper at the expense of the many.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/jun/02/national-borders-exist-to-pen-poor-people-into-reservations-of-poverty?CMP=fb_gu
Before the Aliens Act of 1905, the UK had no border controls to speak of. They were first erected to stop Jews coming from eastern Europe. โEngland for the English,โ was the slogan. The Manchester Evening Chronicle explained what this meant: โThat the dirty, destitute, diseased, verminous and criminal foreigner who dumps himself on our soil and rates simultaneously, shall be forbidden to land.โ Sound familiar ? Somethings never change. Leave, Remain..results will be the same. The wealthy few will prosper at the expense of the many. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/jun/02/national-borders-exist-to-pen-poor-people-into-reservations-of-poverty?CMP=fb_gu |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 10:32:07 GMT 1, Antony Gormley "The European project is creative, an opportunity to exercise imagination. It is the present form of the ongoing dynamic between geography and tribe. We have always been part of this evolving story and need to stay part of it. Britain has key role to play in the European parliament, commission and councils. They are our opportunity to contribute to a collective future that is the result of much sacrifice."
His sculptures are crap too and designed by committee.
Antony Gormley "The European project is creative, an opportunity to exercise imagination. It is the present form of the ongoing dynamic between geography and tribe. We have always been part of this evolving story and need to stay part of it. Britain has key role to play in the European parliament, commission and councils. They are our opportunity to contribute to a collective future that is the result of much sacrifice." Gormley talks out his ass. Not as if Gormley is not biased or had EU funding. www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/modern-public-artworks-are-crap-says-gormley-this-is-how-it-should-be-done-791922.htmlHis sculptures are crap too and designed by committee. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 10:35:47 GMT 1, I watched the David Cameron question time on Sky news last night. The young Moroccan woman was right on the mark about Turkey. Yet the media featured her putting Cameron in his place for waffling and did not report on her point about why Turkey should not be allowed to join the EU.
I watched the David Cameron question time on Sky news last night. The young Moroccan woman was right on the mark about Turkey. Yet the media featured her putting Cameron in his place for waffling and did not report on her point about why Turkey should not be allowed to join the EU.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 10:37:44 GMT 1, Maybe we better stay in the EU. Remember all the experts in the 80's and 90's saying how by now most of London would be underwater due to global warming? Ahhhh ok they got the dates wrong, but maybe when it happens we will be glad of the chance to move from out flooded capital across to our friends in Europe. Maybe we should do what the experts tell us, coz they are always spot on it predicting the future, right? 
If Britain becomes flooded then i'm sure Merkel will give us all new homes and money for life.
Maybe we better stay in the EU. Remember all the experts in the 80's and 90's saying how by now most of London would be underwater due to global warming? Ahhhh ok they got the dates wrong, but maybe when it happens we will be glad of the chance to move from out flooded capital across to our friends in Europe. Maybe we should do what the experts tell us, coz they are always spot on it predicting the future, right? If Britain becomes flooded then i'm sure Merkel will give us all new homes and money for life. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 10:39:26 GMT 1, Money. Salmond is milking it as are all the in and out brigade as are all the no borders brigade too.
Money. Salmond is milking it as are all the in and out brigade as are all the no borders brigade too. |
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tommyb
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 334
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March 2013
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by tommyb on Jun 3, 2016 10:51:07 GMT 1, Maybe we better stay in the EU. Remember all the experts in the 80's and 90's saying how by now most of London would be underwater due to global warming? Ahhhh ok they got the dates wrong, but maybe when it happens we will be glad of the chance to move from out flooded capital across to our friends in Europe. Maybe we should do what the experts tell us, coz they are always spot on it predicting the future, right? If Britain becomes flooded then i'm sure Merkel will give us all new homes and money for life.
Either that or Oxford is going to have the same population as Tokyo....
Maybe we better stay in the EU. Remember all the experts in the 80's and 90's saying how by now most of London would be underwater due to global warming? Ahhhh ok they got the dates wrong, but maybe when it happens we will be glad of the chance to move from out flooded capital across to our friends in Europe. Maybe we should do what the experts tell us, coz they are always spot on it predicting the future, right? If Britain becomes flooded then i'm sure Merkel will give us all new homes and money for life. Either that or Oxford is going to have the same population as Tokyo.... |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 11:07:27 GMT 1,
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Zippy
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 6,815
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April 2006
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Zippy on Jun 3, 2016 11:14:30 GMT 1, I thought this forum would be unbiased but I see there is a 'vote leave' banner. Is this a 'paid for' banner or a donation from daniel Silk ?
I thought this forum would be unbiased but I see there is a 'vote leave' banner. Is this a 'paid for' banner or a donation from daniel Silk ? |
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The UK's EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016., by Coach on Jun 3, 2016 11:17:34 GMT 1, I thought this forum would be unbiased but I see there is a 'vote leave' banner. Is this a 'paid for' banner or a donation from daniel Silkย ?
I've previously said that I think that banner on this forum is of great concern.
I thought this forum would be unbiased but I see there is a 'vote leave' banner. Is this a 'paid for' banner or a donation from daniel Silkย ? I've previously said that I think that banner on this forum is of great concern. |
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lol
