met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,780
Likes โข 6,695
June 2009
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Art Wanted, by met on Jul 17, 2017 9:40:36 GMT 1, Letting the West Country Prince advertise here is a bit like letting someone advertise kiddie porn for sale. Sure, it's illegal and unethical. But we all make our own choices. This site is just for sharing information. Not to judge what's right or wrong. Your posts are among those I tend to keep an eye out for.
It's a pleasure finding you in true form on this thread.
Letting the West Country Prince advertise here is a bit like letting someone advertise kiddie porn for sale. Sure, it's illegal and unethical. But we all make our own choices. This site is just for sharing information. Not to judge what's right or wrong. Your posts are among those I tend to keep an eye out for. It's a pleasure finding you in true form on this thread.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,780
Likes โข 6,695
June 2009
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Art Wanted, by met on Jul 17, 2017 9:59:23 GMT 1, Law and ethics are two different things. But please do explain how banksy can use the flags image but an artist couldn't use his girl with balloon to create their art. Under copyright law, artists are allowed to use existing artwork in their art as long as the message is changed in some way โ often through social satire or a political statement. Banksy often uses existing art as a reference point, but changes the meaning of the work significantly. This is considered fair use. What you're not allowed to do is create an exact or nearly exact reproduction of another artist's work and offer it for sale. In the case of girl with balloon, another artist could use that as inspiration so long as they modify it in a way that creates new meaning. Admirable patience.
For reasons of prioritisation, I generally wouldn't make the effort of engaging with those I sense to be:
(i) thick, and lacking self-awareness; (ii) disingenuous; or (iii) some combination of (i) and (ii).
Admittedly, however, these types of exchanges have potential value for other members who do not fall within the above categories.
Law and ethics are two different things. But please do explain how banksy can use the flags image but an artist couldn't use his girl with balloon to create their art. Under copyright law, artists are allowed to use existing artwork in their art as long as the message is changed in some way โ often through social satire or a political statement. Banksy often uses existing art as a reference point, but changes the meaning of the work significantly. This is considered fair use. What you're not allowed to do is create an exact or nearly exact reproduction of another artist's work and offer it for sale. In the case of girl with balloon, another artist could use that as inspiration so long as they modify it in a way that creates new meaning. Admirable patience. For reasons of prioritisation, I generally wouldn't make the effort of engaging with those I sense to be: (i) thick, and lacking self-awareness; (ii) disingenuous; or (iii) some combination of (i) and (ii). Admittedly, however, these types of exchanges have potential value for other members who do not fall within the above categories.
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barryh
New Member
Posts โข 752
Likes โข 155
February 2012
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Art Wanted, by barryh on Jul 17, 2017 10:01:08 GMT 1, Gonna start promoting Poundland in the top banner too, or is it just to the highest bidder ?
Silky knows banksys thoughts on his name being used so others can profit.... why do you think this place is no longer the banksy forum ? I'm pretty sure it's not because 'urban art association' brings in more clicks
Gonna start promoting Poundland in the top banner too, or is it just to the highest bidder ?
Silky knows banksys thoughts on his name being used so others can profit.... why do you think this place is no longer the banksy forum ? I'm pretty sure it's not because 'urban art association' brings in more clicks
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T-Bro
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,522
Likes โข 1,422
April 2006
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Art Wanted, by T-Bro on Jul 17, 2017 10:23:21 GMT 1, i recommend ad blocker!
i recommend ad blocker!
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,780
Likes โข 6,695
June 2009
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Art Wanted, by met on Jul 17, 2017 10:26:14 GMT 1, I'd be willing to bet that anyone who is bitter about WCP probably spent 20k on a Banksy print or owns a few as a nest egg one day. That being said. I think WCP is a damn genius. I have a few different businesses one being a salon/studio with the wife. Have a couple WCP prints framed up on the walls. I even have one framed up in the waiting room of my car repair shop. People love them! WCP puts out a top notch print at a good price. If you love the image and want it on your wall without mortgaging your house then do it!! Genius? Is the bar set that low these days?
No, it isn't. At least not according to the current and broadly accepted meaning of "genius".
But there is a vocal minority who use the term very loosely (in a similar way to how they might describe formulaic artwork as "stunning" or "brilliant").
This is an illustration of how language and meaning can evolve or be corrupted. Whether in a conscious or oblivious manner, it's part of a continuous battle against standardised usage. Which may be unsettling or exhilarating, depending on one's perspective. Words that previously were universally-understood are sometimes stretched to the point where they start to mean almost anything, thereby becoming meaningless โ a hindrance both to effective communication and to clear thinking.
WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
In a comparable vein, facts and the truth are no longer accepted by everyone as such โ not when untruths and disinformation constitute "alternative facts" by sufficient numbers of people.
_________
My own view is that the above initial reference to "genius" is asinine. The tone of the entire post feels more sincere than sarcastic โ although this could well be an incorrect assessment by me.
At the same time, a credible argument can be made that the word is being expressed in a purely relative sense, i.e. relative to the user's perception of their own abilities.
I'd be willing to bet that anyone who is bitter about WCP probably spent 20k on a Banksy print or owns a few as a nest egg one day. That being said. I think WCP is a damn genius. I have a few different businesses one being a salon/studio with the wife. Have a couple WCP prints framed up on the walls. I even have one framed up in the waiting room of my car repair shop. People love them! WCP puts out a top notch print at a good price. If you love the image and want it on your wall without mortgaging your house then do it!! Genius? Is the bar set that low these days? No, it isn't. At least not according to the current and broadly accepted meaning of "genius". But there is a vocal minority who use the term very loosely (in a similar way to how they might describe formulaic artwork as "stunning" or "brilliant"). This is an illustration of how language and meaning can evolve or be corrupted. Whether in a conscious or oblivious manner, it's part of a continuous battle against standardised usage. Which may be unsettling or exhilarating, depending on one's perspective. Words that previously were universally-understood are sometimes stretched to the point where they start to mean almost anything, thereby becoming meaningless โ a hindrance both to effective communication and to clear thinking. WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTHIn a comparable vein, facts and the truth are no longer accepted by everyone as such โ not when untruths and disinformation constitute "alternative facts" by sufficient numbers of people. _________ My own view is that the above initial reference to "genius" is asinine. The tone of the entire post feels more sincere than sarcastic โ although this could well be an incorrect assessment by me. At the same time, a credible argument can be made that the word is being expressed in a purely relative sense, i.e. relative to the user's perception of their own abilities.
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Art Wanted, by Happy Shopper on Jul 17, 2017 10:51:51 GMT 1, WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Plusgood
Welcome back Comrade... You've been missing for a while!
WAR IS PEACE FREEDOM IS SLAVERY IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH Plusgood Welcome back Comrade... You've been missing for a while!
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klyde
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,125
Likes โข 501
May 2007
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Art Wanted, by klyde on Jul 17, 2017 11:03:39 GMT 1, Just a bit of wall decoration. No big deal.
Not like these are taking away customers from Banksy.
Completely separate markets.
If anything the more of these prints on peoples walls rather than in "acid free pet free non smoking stored flat etc folders" the better.
Its a tiny bubble.
Had loads of visitors admire and ask my about my WCP turf war without a clue who Banksy is.
Just a bit of wall decoration. No big deal.
Not like these are taking away customers from Banksy.
Completely separate markets.
If anything the more of these prints on peoples walls rather than in "acid free pet free non smoking stored flat etc folders" the better.
Its a tiny bubble.
Had loads of visitors admire and ask my about my WCP turf war without a clue who Banksy is.
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Art Wanted, by Happy Shopper on Jul 17, 2017 11:06:23 GMT 1, For those that think that people only object to WCP because they want to maintain their investment, I actually think it would be great if Banksy/POW did open editions of the old print as Lithos, maybe on different paper, different colours, or size. (Shepard Fairey has been doing this with some of his prints)
That way anyone who wants the image for the sake of having the image can, without resorting to poor copies... and maybe the money could go to a good cause.
For those that think that people only object to WCP because they want to maintain their investment, I actually think it would be great if Banksy/POW did open editions of the old print as Lithos, maybe on different paper, different colours, or size. (Shepard Fairey has been doing this with some of his prints)
That way anyone who wants the image for the sake of having the image can, without resorting to poor copies... and maybe the money could go to a good cause.
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klyde
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,125
Likes โข 501
May 2007
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Art Wanted, by klyde on Jul 17, 2017 11:14:30 GMT 1, For those that think that people only object to WCP because they want to maintain their investment, I actually think it would be great if Banksy/POW did open editions of the old print as Lithos, maybe on different paper, different colours, or size. (Shepard Fairey has been doing this with some of his prints) That way anyone who wants the image for the sake of having the image can, without resorting to poor copies... and maybe the money could go to a good cause.
They did that with soupcans and for whatever reason didn't print anymore despite being a open edition.
Shame really.
Reckon if Banksy wanted to do this it would have happened by now.
For those that think that people only object to WCP because they want to maintain their investment, I actually think it would be great if Banksy/POW did open editions of the old print as Lithos, maybe on different paper, different colours, or size. (Shepard Fairey has been doing this with some of his prints) That way anyone who wants the image for the sake of having the image can, without resorting to poor copies... and maybe the money could go to a good cause.
They did that with soupcans and for whatever reason didn't print anymore despite being a open edition.
Shame really.
Reckon if Banksy wanted to do this it would have happened by now.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,780
Likes โข 6,695
June 2009
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Art Wanted, by met on Jul 17, 2017 11:51:05 GMT 1, To the buyer the canvases weren't by banksy. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand. Banksy was choosing to present *his own* artwork as fake as some kind of experiment / stunt / statement / whatever. WCP is deliberately recreating Banksy images as closely as possible in order to profit. He isn't re-interpreting the images, or using Banksy images as the basis for new work. Although we both appear to agree it's nonsensical to compare the Better Out Than In video with shenanigans of The West Country Prince, our respective interpretations of that video are slightly different.
For the sake of discussion, I'll go off on a tangent to explore this difference:
Passersby familiar with Banksy's work will have recognised the Banksy imagery for sale at the installation near Central Park. And if they were also up-to-speed with his career, most will have naturally assumed the canvases at the stall were fake. No surprises there.
But I don't believe the main idea was for Banksy "to present his own artwork as fake". It didn't seem to me like a 'genuine vs counterfeit' stunt meant to raise questions about authenticity. There's a greater likelihood the artistic concept was more elegant than that.
Consider the following alternative perspective:
1. During the length of the actual installation (as opposed to afterwards, when it was publicised), street art enthusiasts were not the target audience. Nor were art aficionados more generally.
Rather, it was Joe Public that the artist had his sights on โ the common man who would not recognise Banksy's work.
Three premises to support this argument:
(i) If, during the hours the stall was in operation, its intended primary audience had been people familiar with Banksy, what would be the result of such a stunt? How would it end in practice?
Does anyone think the purpose was to very generously reward people who buy (or think they're buying) knockoffs?
That doesn't hold up. First, it would make the artistic intent clumsy and uninteresting by Banksy standards. Second, it's morally bankrupt. Third, as already stated by randomname, it directly conflicts with Banksy's previously-expressed position on the unauthorised reproduction of his work for commercial sale.
(ii) Bear in mind the importance of location and placement when it comes to a lot of well-executed street art, especially with Banksy's. In which Manhattan neighbourhood is one more likely to find pedestrians unaware of the oeuvre of a famous contemporary artist? Midtown, where the stall was set up, seems like a fine choice to me. Conversely, where would one set up the stall if the focus had instead been existing fans of Banksy's work? Perhaps Chelsea or the Lower East Side, but definitely not Midtown.
(iii) Note as well the complete absence at the stall of any reference to Banksy's name. It's a key point often overlooked. The paintings were deliberately presented as merely "SPRAY ART".
And so potential buyers were not really encouraged to think they'd be getting Banksys, or fake Banksys, or knockoffs of any sort. On the contrary, they were led to conclude this was original artwork โ albeit by some unknown artist whose name was almost irrelevant, not important enough to even mention.
2. This was a playful exposรฉ and commentary, comparable to Exit Through the Gift Shop. More broadly, as referred to by Happy Shopper, it was a social and psychological experiment relating to value and perceived value.
What level of desirability do stencilled paintings on canvas have when not showcased in a gallery, museum, or auction house setting? How about if one abandons all preciousness entirely โ for example, by plonking down those canvases at a streetside market stall run by a pensioner wearing sunglasses and a baseball cap? Are they fine art in the eyes of the beholder, or does such a context somehow transform them into tat?
To what extent are the appreciation and desirability of an artwork linked to its known or perceived commercial value? With artistic creations, where does the value actually lie?
When the very same or similar images had previously sold for five or six figures, what financial value would be attributable to paintings if the famous name of the artist who produced them were left undisclosed (i.e. if brand recognition, prestige and resale value are omitted from the equation)?
What indeed would happen if the bells and whistles were stripped away, if the only thing left were the art itself โ in its purest form, detached from marketing and market considerations? Would these works then be worth $100,000 each? Maybe $1,000 each? Or would the vast majority of locals and tourists walk by uninterested, even if the paintings were priced at $60 apiece?
We discovered the answers soon enough, in that short video from October 2013.
To the buyer the canvases weren't by banksy. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand. Banksy was choosing to present *his own* artwork as fake as some kind of experiment / stunt / statement / whatever. WCP is deliberately recreating Banksy images as closely as possible in order to profit. He isn't re-interpreting the images, or using Banksy images as the basis for new work. Although we both appear to agree it's nonsensical to compare the Better Out Than In video with shenanigans of The West Country Prince, our respective interpretations of that video are slightly different. For the sake of discussion, I'll go off on a tangent to explore this difference: Passersby familiar with Ban ksy's work will have recognised the Ban ksy imagery for sale at the installation near Central Park. And if they were also up-to-speed with his career, most will have naturally assumed the canvases at the stall were fake. No surprises there. But I don't believe the main idea was for Ban ksy "to present his own artwork as fake". It didn't seem to me like a 'genuine vs counterfeit' stunt meant to raise questions about authenticity. There's a greater likelihood the artistic concept was more elegant than that. Consider the following alternative perspective: 1. During the length of the actual installation (as opposed to afterwards, when it was publicised), str eet art enthusiasts were not the target audience. Nor were art aficionados more generally. Rather, it was Joe Public that the artist had his sights on โ the common man who would not recognise Ban ksy's work. Three premises to support this argument: (i) If, during the hours the stall was in operation, its intended primary audience had been people familiar with Ban ksy, what would be the result of such a stunt? How would it end in practice? Does anyone think the purpose was to very generously reward people who buy (or think they're buying) knockoffs? That doesn't hold up. First, it would make the artistic intent clumsy and uninteresting by Ban ksy standards. Second, it's morally bankrupt. Third, as already stated by randomname, it directly conflicts with Ban ksy's previously-expressed position on the unauthorised reproduction of his work for commercial sale. (ii) Bear in mind the importance of location and placement when it comes to a lot of well-executed str eet art, especially with Ban ksy's. In which Manhattan neighbourhood is one more likely to find pedestrians unaware of the oeuvre of a famous contemporary artist? Midtown, where the stall was set up, seems like a fine choice to me. Conversely, where would one set up the stall if the focus had instead been existing fans of Ban ksy's work? Perhaps Chelsea or the Lower East Side, but definitely not Midtown. (iii) Note as well the complete absence at the stall of any reference to Ban ksy's name. It's a key point often overlooked. The paintings were deliberately presented as merely "SPRAY ART". And so potential buyers were not really encouraged to think they'd be getting Ban ksys, or fake Ban ksys, or knockoffs of any sort. On the contrary, they were led to conclude this was original artwork โ albeit by some unknown artist whose name was almost irrelevant, not important enough to even mention. 2. This was a playful exposรฉ and commentary, comparable to Exit Through the Gift Shop. More broadly, as referred to by Happy Shopper, it was a social and psychological experiment relating to value and perceived value. What level of desirability do stencilled paintings on canvas have when not showcased in a gallery, museum, or auction house setting? How about if one abandons all preciousness entirely โ for example, by plonking down those canvases at a streetside market stall run by a pensioner wearing sunglasses and a baseball cap? Are they fine art in the eyes of the beholder, or does such a context somehow transform them into tat? To what extent are the appreciation and desirability of an artwork linked to its known or perceived commercial value? With artistic creations, where does the value actually lie? When the very same or similar images had previously sold for five or six figures, what financial value would be attributable to paintings if the famous name of the artist who produced them were left undisclosed (i.e. if brand recognition, prestige and resale value are omitted from the equation)? What indeed would happen if the bells and whistles were stripped away, if the only thing left were the art itself โ in its purest form, detached from marketing and market considerations? Would these works then be worth $100,000 each? Maybe $1,000 each? Or would the vast majority of locals and tourists walk by uninterested, even if the paintings were priced at $60 apiece? We discovered the answers soon enough, in that short video from October 2013.
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Art Wanted, by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 17, 2017 12:20:17 GMT 1, For those that think that people only object to WCP because they want to maintain their investment, I actually think it would be great if Banksy/POW did open editions of the old print as Lithos, maybe on different paper, different colours, or size. (Shepard Fairey has been doing this with some of his prints) That way anyone who wants the image for the sake of having the image can, without resorting to poor copies... and maybe the money could go to a good cause.
So why doesn't banksy do this?
Oh wait it couldn't be that he doesn't care about his general fan right?!?!?
For those that think that people only object to WCP because they want to maintain their investment, I actually think it would be great if Banksy/POW did open editions of the old print as Lithos, maybe on different paper, different colours, or size. (Shepard Fairey has been doing this with some of his prints) That way anyone who wants the image for the sake of having the image can, without resorting to poor copies... and maybe the money could go to a good cause. So why doesn't banksy do this? Oh wait it couldn't be that he doesn't care about his general fan right?!?!?
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Art Wanted, by Happy Shopper on Jul 17, 2017 12:45:58 GMT 1, For those that think that people only object to WCP because they want to maintain their investment, I actually think it would be great if Banksy/POW did open editions of the old print as Lithos, maybe on different paper, different colours, or size. (Shepard Fairey has been doing this with some of his prints) That way anyone who wants the image for the sake of having the image can, without resorting to poor copies... and maybe the money could go to a good cause. So why doesn't banksy do this? Oh wait it couldn't be that he doesn't care about his general fan right?!?!? Bit of a leap of logic.
For those that think that people only object to WCP because they want to maintain their investment, I actually think it would be great if Banksy/POW did open editions of the old print as Lithos, maybe on different paper, different colours, or size. (Shepard Fairey has been doing this with some of his prints) That way anyone who wants the image for the sake of having the image can, without resorting to poor copies... and maybe the money could go to a good cause. So why doesn't banksy do this? Oh wait it couldn't be that he doesn't care about his general fan right?!?!? Bit of a leap of logic.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Art Wanted, by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 12:59:07 GMT 1, So why doesn't banksy do this? Oh wait it couldn't be that he doesn't care about his general fan right?!?!? Bit of a leap of logic. Sealions do that
So why doesn't banksy do this? Oh wait it couldn't be that he doesn't care about his general fan right?!?!? Bit of a leap of logic. Sealions do that
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,780
Likes โข 6,695
June 2009
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Art Wanted, by met on Jul 17, 2017 13:22:40 GMT 1, The issue of The West Country Prince has been discussed at length many times previously. But for reasons stated in this post, it is always a debate worth reigniting. At least while knockoffs continue to be advertised for sale here.
My position is straightforward: I consider WCP to be a parasite. This is not an emotional statement. It's a calm and rational opinion based on the actions of WCP. Those actions are, objectively speaking, parasitic.
It's ironic that copyright infringement โ in other words, theft against artists of their intellectual property โ is supported (even promoted) on a forum dedicated to art. It's also shameful. And for these reasons, I truly believe the decision allowing WCP to advertise should be reconsidered.
[Whether the knockoffs are good or terrible quality is completely beside the point. That is a red-herring discussion which is unhelpful. It only serves to cloud and detract from the issue of principle.]
____________
When press articles are posted about McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses ripping off for commercial purposes the work of graffiti writers and street artists, what I haven't yet seen on this forum are stooges playing cheerleader for the thieves. In such cases, the moral compasses of all members seem to be functioning properly.
And yet the principle is exactly the same as it is with WCP: Stealing from any artist is wrong.
If the average man on the street โ and even a five-year-old child โ can understand this very basic moral stance, then art enthusiasts should be all the more receptive to it.
So why the double-standard by some members when it comes to WCP?
A possible explanation is that no one on the forum has a vested interest in the cases of McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses. These entities don't churn out knockoff Banksy prints. They don't have mates here, or pay for advertising here.
Members are therefore non-conflicted; they're able to judge objectively. There isn't a financial or other temptation to be intellectually dishonest โ by trying to defend the thieves and rationalise their thieving from artists we love.
The issue of The West Country Prince has been discussed at length many times previously. But for reasons stated in this post, it is always a debate worth reigniting. At least while knockoffs continue to be advertised for sale here. My position is straightforward: I consider WCP to be a parasite. This is not an emotional statement. It's a calm and rational opinion based on the actions of WCP. Those actions are, objectively speaking, parasitic. It's ironic that copyright infringement โ in other words, theft against artists of their intellectual property โ is supported (even promoted) on a forum dedicated to art. It's also shameful. And for these reasons, I truly believe the decision allowing WCP to advertise should be reconsidered. [Whether the knockoffs are good or terrible quality is completely beside the point. That is a red-herring discussion which is unhelpful. It only serves to cloud and detract from the issue of principle.]____________ When press articles are posted about McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses ripping off for commercial purposes the work of graffiti writers and street artists, what I haven't yet seen on this forum are stooges playing cheerleader for the thieves. In such cases, the moral compasses of all members seem to be functioning properly. And yet the principle is exactly the same as it is with WCP: Stealing from any artist is wrong.If the average man on the street โ and even a five-year-old child โ can understand this very basic moral stance, then art enthusiasts should be all the more receptive to it. So why the double-standard by some members when it comes to WCP? A possible explanation is that no one on the forum has a vested interest in the cases of McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses. These entities don't churn out knockoff Ban ksy prints. They don't have mates here, or pay for advertising here. Members are therefore non-conflicted; they're able to judge objectively. There isn't a financial or other temptation to be intellectually dishonest โ by trying to defend the thieves and rationalise their thieving from artists we love.
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seanburke
New Member
Posts โข 358
Likes โข 589
December 2014
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Art Wanted, by seanburke on Jul 17, 2017 13:56:23 GMT 1, Is it just me or is the WCP ebay shop always empty?
How often does he release on the page?
Is it just me or is the WCP ebay shop always empty?
How often does he release on the page?
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Art Wanted, by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 17, 2017 13:59:04 GMT 1, So why doesn't banksy do this? Oh wait it couldn't be that he doesn't care about his general fan right?!?!? Bit of a leap of logic.
Haha. Okay let's hear the better logic then?!?!?
So why doesn't banksy do this? Oh wait it couldn't be that he doesn't care about his general fan right?!?!? Bit of a leap of logic. Haha. Okay let's hear the better logic then?!?!?
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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Art Wanted, by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 14:15:55 GMT 1, The issue of The West Country Prince has been discussed at length many times previously. But for reasons stated in this post, it is always a debate worth reigniting. At least while knockoffs continue to be advertised for sale here. My position is straightforward: I consider WCP to be a parasite. This is not an emotional statement. It's a calm and rational opinion based on the actions of WCP. Those actions are, objectively speaking, parasitic. It's ironic that copyright infringement โ in other words, theft against artists of their intellectual property โ is supported (even promoted) on a forum dedicated to art. It's also shameful. And for these reasons, I truly believe the decision allowing WCP to advertise should be reconsidered. [Whether the knockoffs are good or terrible quality is completely beside the point. That is a red-herring discussion which is unhelpful. It only serves to cloud and detract from the issue of principle.]____________ When press articles are posted about McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses ripping off for commercial purposes the work of graffiti writers and street artists, what I haven't yet seen on this forum are stooges playing cheerleader for the thieves. In such cases, the moral compasses of all members seem to be functioning properly. And yet the principle is exactly the same as it is with WCP: Stealing from any artist is wrong.If the average man on the street โ and even a five-year-old child โ can understand this very basic moral stance, then art enthusiasts should be all the more receptive to it. So why the double-standard by some members when it comes to WCP? A possible explanation is that no one on the forum has a vested interest in the cases of McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses. These entities don't churn out knockoff Ban ksy prints. They don't have mates here, or pay for advertising here. Members are therefore non-conflicted; they're able to judge objectively. There isn't a financial or other temptation to be intellectually dishonest โ by trying to defend the thieves and rationalise their thieving from artists we love. any more posts of this nature and methinks Met's return to the forum may well be short lived
The issue of The West Country Prince has been discussed at length many times previously. But for reasons stated in this post, it is always a debate worth reigniting. At least while knockoffs continue to be advertised for sale here. My position is straightforward: I consider WCP to be a parasite. This is not an emotional statement. It's a calm and rational opinion based on the actions of WCP. Those actions are, objectively speaking, parasitic. It's ironic that copyright infringement โ in other words, theft against artists of their intellectual property โ is supported (even promoted) on a forum dedicated to art. It's also shameful. And for these reasons, I truly believe the decision allowing WCP to advertise should be reconsidered. [Whether the knockoffs are good or terrible quality is completely beside the point. That is a red-herring discussion which is unhelpful. It only serves to cloud and detract from the issue of principle.]____________ When press articles are posted about McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses ripping off for commercial purposes the work of graffiti writers and street artists, what I haven't yet seen on this forum are stooges playing cheerleader for the thieves. In such cases, the moral compasses of all members seem to be functioning properly. And yet the principle is exactly the same as it is with WCP: Stealing from any artist is wrong.If the average man on the street โ and even a five-year-old child โ can understand this very basic moral stance, then art enthusiasts should be all the more receptive to it. So why the double-standard by some members when it comes to WCP? A possible explanation is that no one on the forum has a vested interest in the cases of McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses. These entities don't churn out knockoff Ban ksy prints. They don't have mates here, or pay for advertising here. Members are therefore non-conflicted; they're able to judge objectively. There isn't a financial or other temptation to be intellectually dishonest โ by trying to defend the thieves and rationalise their thieving from artists we love. any more posts of this nature and methinks Met's return to the forum may well be short lived
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Art Wanted, by Happy Shopper on Jul 17, 2017 14:21:30 GMT 1, Haha. Okay let's hear the better logic then?!?!? Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art?
Haha. Okay let's hear the better logic then?!?!? Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art?
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Art Wanted, by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 17, 2017 14:28:26 GMT 1, I don't get the 'it's illegal and immoral bit'
So what do you call painting on someone else's property?
'Art' lol
I don't get the 'it's illegal and immoral bit'
So what do you call painting on someone else's property?
'Art' lol
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Art Wanted, by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 17, 2017 14:37:08 GMT 1, Haha. Okay let's hear the better logic then?!?!? Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art?
But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people?
Haha. Okay let's hear the better logic then?!?!? Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art? But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people?
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Art Wanted, by Happy Shopper on Jul 17, 2017 14:52:33 GMT 1, Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art? But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Doesn't mean he has to cater to every whim of people who like his work.
Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art? But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Doesn't mean he has to cater to every whim of people who like his work.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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Art Wanted, by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 15:24:27 GMT 1, Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art? But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Seaaaaa lionnnn
Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art? But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Seaaaaa lionnnn
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Art Wanted, by Coach on Jul 17, 2017 15:45:30 GMT 1, Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art? But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people?
Exit, cans, dismalland, street pieces......etc As a "little person" I feel rather well catered for.
Because he doesn't owe anybody anything and is free to choose how he wants to produce his art? But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Exit, cans, dismalland, street pieces......etc As a "little person" I feel rather well catered for.
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Jaylove
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,596
Likes โข 1,073
November 2016
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Art Wanted, by Jaylove on Jul 17, 2017 17:09:17 GMT 1, Is it just me or is the WCP ebay shop always empty? How often does he release on the page?
It's usually empty. Then he'll put up about 15 different prints for sale for about a week then take them all down for months it seems.
Is it just me or is the WCP ebay shop always empty? How often does he release on the page? It's usually empty. Then he'll put up about 15 different prints for sale for about a week then take them all down for months it seems.
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Art Wanted, by Sliding on the Walls on Jul 17, 2017 17:26:49 GMT 1, When press articles are posted about McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses ripping off for commercial purposes the work of graffiti writers and street artists, what I haven't yet seen on this forum are stooges playing cheerleader for the thieves. In such cases, the moral compasses of all members seem to be functioning properly. And yet the principle is exactly the same as it is with WCP: Stealing from any artist is wrong. It's a valid argument that corporations taking graffiti artists' work for commercial gains is wrong, but it works both ways. It wouldn't be an Urban art 'counter culture' movement without product placement or identity, ironic or not. (Banksy's Teco value soup cans for example).
When press articles are posted about McDonald's, Starbucks or fashion houses ripping off for commercial purposes the work of graffiti writers and street artists, what I haven't yet seen on this forum are stooges playing cheerleader for the thieves. In such cases, the moral compasses of all members seem to be functioning properly. And yet the principle is exactly the same as it is with WCP: Stealing from any artist is wrong.It's a valid argument that corporations taking graffiti artists' work for commercial gains is wrong, but it works both ways. It wouldn't be an Urban art 'counter culture' movement without product placement or identity, ironic or not. (Banksy's Teco value soup cans for example).
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Art Wanted, by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 18:45:17 GMT 1, Is this place legit?
BANKSY'S GRAFFITI GREETING CARDS AND LOTS MORE
www.fullcolourblack.com/licensing.html
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Art Wanted, by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 17, 2017 18:46:37 GMT 1, But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Exit, cans, dismalland, street pieces......etc As a "little person" I feel rather well catered for.
Great!
Sadly I can't hang a movie on my wall. Well I guess I could.
But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Exit, cans, dismalland, street pieces......etc As a "little person" I feel rather well catered for. Great! Sadly I can't hang a movie on my wall. Well I guess I could.
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Art Wanted, by Rouen Cathedral on Jul 17, 2017 18:48:01 GMT 1, But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Doesn't mean he has to cater to every whim of people who like his work.
Sure of course he can. But what do you like of an artist who started as one thing then becomes another. Art for the people to art for the rich!
But isn't banksy the artist of the people. Mysterious artist Defying big government sticking up for injustice and the little people. Bringing his art to all. Being a Robin Hood against the art world. Or was that just all a narrative to get rich and sell art to rich people? Doesn't mean he has to cater to every whim of people who like his work. Sure of course he can. But what do you like of an artist who started as one thing then becomes another. Art for the people to art for the rich!
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Art Wanted, by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 18:53:29 GMT 1, Doesn't mean he has to cater to every whim of people who like his work. Sure of course he can. But what do you like of an artist who started as one thing then becomes another. Art for the people to art for the rich!
You do seem to like much of what he does or is, what would you like him to do ?
Doesn't mean he has to cater to every whim of people who like his work. Sure of course he can. But what do you like of an artist who started as one thing then becomes another. Art for the people to art for the rich! You do seem to like much of what he does or is, what would you like him to do ?
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Art Wanted, by Coach on Jul 17, 2017 19:15:41 GMT 1, Exit, cans, dismalland, street pieces......etc As a "little person" I feel rather well catered for. Great! Sadly I can't hang a movie on my wall. Well I guess I could.
I know that yiu are being intentionally obtuse, but there is plenty that can be hung on one's walls if on a budget. The pow posters were only a few pounds each. There were cheap posters by other artists at dismalland. If you want an iconic image, Banksy has said that we are all free to make our own digital print, not for commercial gain. It is simply a matter of fact that his editions and originals are now out of the reach of most. But that is what happens. I'd love a signed Warhol, or even a small (I'm not greedy) Mattisse original, but I can't afford them. Same is true of many living artists. I don't resent them for it (as you seem to do). I'm pleased for them for their success. Not many artists make it even to the level where they can make a living without a "real job". Good luck to them if they can, let alone making them rich.
Exit, cans, dismalland, street pieces......etc As a "little person" I feel rather well catered for. Great! Sadly I can't hang a movie on my wall. Well I guess I could. I know that yiu are being intentionally obtuse, but there is plenty that can be hung on one's walls if on a budget. The pow posters were only a few pounds each. There were cheap posters by other artists at dismalland. If you want an iconic image, Banksy has said that we are all free to make our own digital print, not for commercial gain. It is simply a matter of fact that his editions and originals are now out of the reach of most. But that is what happens. I'd love a signed Warhol, or even a small (I'm not greedy) Mattisse original, but I can't afford them. Same is true of many living artists. I don't resent them for it (as you seem to do). I'm pleased for them for their success. Not many artists make it even to the level where they can make a living without a "real job". Good luck to them if they can, let alone making them rich.
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