Wearology
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Staff at FatFreeArt
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Wearology on Mar 8, 2012 0:27:23 GMT 1, I have been monitoring this thread and I am absolutely shocked. One of the many benefits on here are the 1st offers to forum members before they go on the auction sites. If anyone else is dealing with these type of sultry characters please let Silky know and hopefully he can help protect the interests of our community from these type of financial predators in the future.
I have been monitoring this thread and I am absolutely shocked. One of the many benefits on here are the 1st offers to forum members before they go on the auction sites. If anyone else is dealing with these type of sultry characters please let Silky know and hopefully he can help protect the interests of our community from these type of financial predators in the future.
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curiousgeorge
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by curiousgeorge on Mar 8, 2012 0:36:09 GMT 1, 60/40?
60/40?
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Collection 1
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Collection 1 on Mar 8, 2012 5:51:16 GMT 1, Hi guys, sorry for all that mess but I think it's a really big big f#$@ big misunderstanding!!!!! Sorry again for my poor english but I'll try to explain myself the best I can. Normally I prefer settle my accounts privately but it looks like he don't want to.
Firstย :
I'm not a Gallery.
I'm not a seller.
I'm a forum member, an artist and a collector!!
I only tried to help a forum member having the full value for an art piece he wants to sell. He said he had some low offers for his Seen canvas. I saw on Artnet that some Seen Canvas sold for more. So as a buyer and a seller on artnet I ask him if he wants me to put his canvas for sale at the price he wants+10% (because Artnet charge 10% buyer premium)and like I said if the piece sells for more, we split the difference 50/50. Where is the problem?!!!!!! It costs me 50$ to advertise an item and I'm paying the paypal fees for the transaction and I'm doing all the communication. I didn't offer this to make a quick buck!!!!! I don't really care doing 50$ or 100$. I have a job and I make my living.It was only a kind of exchange of services.
A year ago when I didn't know nothing about Artnet, a really trusted forum member on here offers me the same thing to help me selling a signed Banksy print. No one on here was interested to pay( not the gallery value) but the market value and I really needed to sell. I told him the price I was looking for (+ 10% buyer premium) and in 7 days the print was sold a bit over my price and we split the difference 50/50 and I sent him (if I remember well) 200$ for that. Was it illegal? Was it unfair? Do he need to be lynched? He did all the transactions, he kept me updated, he responded to all the buyer emails, etc. I was really happy having someone helping me.
That's it.
If I offended some forum members on here, I'm really sorry but there's no story behind this and my only apologise is to have wasted your time reading this.
Cheers
Jean-Pascal
Hi guys, sorry for all that mess but I think it's a really big big f#$@ big misunderstanding!!!!! Sorry again for my poor english but I'll try to explain myself the best I can. Normally I prefer settle my accounts privately but it looks like he don't want to.
Firstย :
I'm not a Gallery.
I'm not a seller.
I'm a forum member, an artist and a collector!!
I only tried to help a forum member having the full value for an art piece he wants to sell. He said he had some low offers for his Seen canvas. I saw on Artnet that some Seen Canvas sold for more. So as a buyer and a seller on artnet I ask him if he wants me to put his canvas for sale at the price he wants+10% (because Artnet charge 10% buyer premium)and like I said if the piece sells for more, we split the difference 50/50. Where is the problem?!!!!!! It costs me 50$ to advertise an item and I'm paying the paypal fees for the transaction and I'm doing all the communication. I didn't offer this to make a quick buck!!!!! I don't really care doing 50$ or 100$. I have a job and I make my living.It was only a kind of exchange of services.
A year ago when I didn't know nothing about Artnet, a really trusted forum member on here offers me the same thing to help me selling a signed Banksy print. No one on here was interested to pay( not the gallery value) but the market value and I really needed to sell. I told him the price I was looking for (+ 10% buyer premium) and in 7 days the print was sold a bit over my price and we split the difference 50/50 and I sent him (if I remember well) 200$ for that. Was it illegal? Was it unfair? Do he need to be lynched? He did all the transactions, he kept me updated, he responded to all the buyer emails, etc. I was really happy having someone helping me.
That's it.
If I offended some forum members on here, I'm really sorry but there's no story behind this and my only apologise is to have wasted your time reading this.
Cheers
Jean-Pascal
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Graffiti Prints
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Graffiti Prints on Mar 8, 2012 9:01:23 GMT 1, Takes balls to come out respect for that!
You are a chancer and your red star gives you trust on here and you abuse it!
Fuk art net and your offer, you are still trying to justify this when all I can see is future threads where people get ripped off by this sort of thing even if it is genuine.
Sell your own art folks don't let a chancer with an artists red star do it for you.
Gp
Takes balls to come out respect for that!
You are a chancer and your red star gives you trust on here and you abuse it!
Fuk art net and your offer, you are still trying to justify this when all I can see is future threads where people get ripped off by this sort of thing even if it is genuine.
Sell your own art folks don't let a chancer with an artists red star do it for you.
Gp
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misterx
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by misterx on Mar 8, 2012 9:07:06 GMT 1, 
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by searchandrescue on Mar 8, 2012 9:30:46 GMT 1, tarring / feathering anyone?? 
tarring / feathering anyone?? |
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Damien
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Damien on Mar 8, 2012 9:40:08 GMT 1, I'm sure JP meant well by it
I'm sure JP meant well by it
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guillaume
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by guillaume on Mar 8, 2012 9:43:46 GMT 1, www.artnet.com/auctions/urban-art/
Many pieces from DirtyPilot (Seen, Dr Revolt)
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kunstrasen
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by kunstrasen on Mar 8, 2012 9:52:12 GMT 1, Don't get the fuss about all this. If you get offered something like this and you don't like say no and move on. Certainly there was no fraud behind this, could have been a win/win situation. Doubt you'll be able to sell that canvas for a reasonable amount on here. But people like to complain and insult, don't they!?
Don't get the fuss about all this. If you get offered something like this and you don't like say no and move on. Certainly there was no fraud behind this, could have been a win/win situation. Doubt you'll be able to sell that canvas for a reasonable amount on here. But people like to complain and insult, don't they!?
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Graffiti Prints
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Graffiti Prints on Mar 8, 2012 10:01:06 GMT 1, I'm sure JP meant well by it
does the artist star make u think that? what does make you think that?
there is no way i would risk this with anybody unless v close friends.
I'm sure JP meant well by it does the artist star make u think that? what does make you think that? there is no way i would risk this with anybody unless v close friends. |
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Graffiti Prints
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Graffiti Prints on Mar 8, 2012 10:04:52 GMT 1, Don't get the fuss about all this. If you get offered something like this and you don't like say no and move on. Certainly there was no fraud behind this, could have been a win/win situation. Doubt you'll be able to sell that canvas for a reasonable amount on here. But people like to complain and insult, don't they!?
chance of fraud is massive and i wanted to point out that simple.
the artist red star creates trust and imo he is abusing it.....
Don't get the fuss about all this. If you get offered something like this and you don't like say no and move on. Certainly there was no fraud behind this, could have been a win/win situation. Doubt you'll be able to sell that canvas for a reasonable amount on here. But people like to complain and insult, don't they!? chance of fraud is massive and i wanted to point out that simple. the artist red star creates trust and imo he is abusing it..... |
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Damien
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Damien on Mar 8, 2012 10:09:14 GMT 1, he has good feedback on here and anyway you could just wait til you received the money and then send the item, but it looks like he tried to help you out as well as himself. just saying
he has good feedback on here and anyway you could just wait til you received the money and then send the item, but it looks like he tried to help you out as well as himself. just saying
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misterx
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by misterx on Mar 8, 2012 10:13:34 GMT 1, Would like to say that in dealings with JP he was nothing but a gentleman.....honestly.
Would like to say that in dealings with JP he was nothing but a gentleman.....honestly.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Deleted on Mar 8, 2012 10:23:47 GMT 1, Trying to get the best of piece is abusive indeed. Sadly, there are many people in forum who are here just for the quick money by buying/selling/flipping !!
GP just wanted a swap; then he got many PMs asking for price (sure considering Seen sales at ArtCurial), so he is publicly asking for best price on his thread, over or below 1k ? And that's where some people got the message wrongly because when GP ask for best price, it means that GP wants to get the best of it, no ??
Cmon GP, you know very well how much you bought it as well as current prices at DirtyPilot so why asking for best price ??
I still fail to understand why people here want to get the best of it !! Why can't it be sold at a fair price to a nice guy/collector who will hang it for few years (I guess the reason is because unless you know the guy for sure, it may buy it for easy profit only).
GP, good luck, I hope you'll get your DSTQ or your Dran !! Perso, I would prefer a Seen canvas than a DSTQ or Dran print but sadly, I have none of the formers... I am sure a flipper may have one 
This canvas looks great !!
Trying to get the best of piece is abusive indeed. Sadly, there are many people in forum who are here just for the quick money by buying/selling/flipping !! GP just wanted a swap; then he got many PMs asking for price (sure considering Seen sales at ArtCurial), so he is publicly asking for best price on his thread, over or below 1k ? And that's where some people got the message wrongly because when GP ask for best price, it means that GP wants to get the best of it, no ?? Cmon GP, you know very well how much you bought it as well as current prices at DirtyPilot so why asking for best price ?? I still fail to understand why people here want to get the best of it !! Why can't it be sold at a fair price to a nice guy/collector who will hang it for few years (I guess the reason is because unless you know the guy for sure, it may buy it for easy profit only). GP, good luck, I hope you'll get your DSTQ or your Dran !! Perso, I would prefer a Seen canvas than a DSTQ or Dran print but sadly, I have none of the formers... I am sure a flipper may have one This canvas looks great !! |
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johnnyh
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by johnnyh on Mar 8, 2012 10:28:01 GMT 1, GP the risk of fraud is all with JP and the buyer. As he advertises the piece that you still hold. He sells it. Collects the money sends it to you less his cut which is agreed. You get the cash then ship the piece to whoever bought it.
So you are at no risk. You get the cash then you ship so not sure your issue. Now you could go to the trouble of the artnet Redg yourself. But to be honest it's just an auction thing and JP gets a cut above your currently listed price.
Apart from getting your knickers in a twist it's not a bad deal. Now if he asked you to send the piece to him.... That would be dodgy but he did not. So as long as your holding your piece. And you get your money it s ok in my book.
Do you want to trade this way etc is your choice but if you read it carefully no one is conning you here.
I do not know JP other than comments on here and I did buy a couple of bits off him that's all. Just so it's clear.
This is just my honest opinion
Johnny
GP the risk of fraud is all with JP and the buyer. As he advertises the piece that you still hold. He sells it. Collects the money sends it to you less his cut which is agreed. You get the cash then ship the piece to whoever bought it.
So you are at no risk. You get the cash then you ship so not sure your issue. Now you could go to the trouble of the artnet Redg yourself. But to be honest it's just an auction thing and JP gets a cut above your currently listed price.
Apart from getting your knickers in a twist it's not a bad deal. Now if he asked you to send the piece to him.... That would be dodgy but he did not. So as long as your holding your piece. And you get your money it s ok in my book.
Do you want to trade this way etc is your choice but if you read it carefully no one is conning you here.
I do not know JP other than comments on here and I did buy a couple of bits off him that's all. Just so it's clear.
This is just my honest opinion
Johnny
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by hunter007 on Mar 8, 2012 10:50:38 GMT 1, Id say JP offered tools to aid you in recieving more for your art than you may get offefered here, expanding your market etc. Now he told you what site he would upload tated the exchange rate 50/50 etc, he had to pay $50 to upload this , your canvas may had not sold meaning the $50 is a loss for JP. YOu could had said no thanks for the offer though , but ill join the site and do this myself. If you was unhappy with the 50/50 split then maybe you could had discussed a different rate?. But ultimatly you stated a price you wanted in the first place?
Id say JP offered tools to aid you in recieving more for your art than you may get offefered here, expanding your market etc. Now he told you what site he would upload tated the exchange rate 50/50 etc, he had to pay $50 to upload this , your canvas may had not sold meaning the $50 is a loss for JP. YOu could had said no thanks for the offer though , but ill join the site and do this myself. If you was unhappy with the 50/50 split then maybe you could had discussed a different rate?. But ultimatly you stated a price you wanted in the first place?
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by hunter007 on Mar 8, 2012 10:51:03 GMT 1, Jp is my Dad x
Jp is my Dad x
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redfred
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by redfred on Mar 8, 2012 10:52:13 GMT 1, Personally feel that the Mods should now lock this thread, both parties have had their say and both in my opinion are good forum members, its now out in the open and before more people start taking sides it should be closed and put down as a misunderstanding, if they want to continue discussions it should be done by PM. Just saying!
Personally feel that the Mods should now lock this thread, both parties have had their say and both in my opinion are good forum members, its now out in the open and before more people start taking sides it should be closed and put down as a misunderstanding, if they want to continue discussions it should be done by PM. Just saying!
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Coach on Mar 8, 2012 11:24:16 GMT 1, Fwiw, JP has been very helpful to me, I value his comments, and is a good active member of this forum.
No harm done. Seems clear he was just trying to help out, imo.
Fwiw, JP has been very helpful to me, I value his comments, and is a good active member of this forum.
No harm done. Seems clear he was just trying to help out, imo.
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Graffiti Prints
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Graffiti Prints on Mar 8, 2012 11:30:41 GMT 1, i realise this was probably genuine that not my beef..
artist stars create trust! imo he is abusing that and is clearly trying to profit off the back of me putting it out there v cheap vs artnet prices.... also i dont want others less experienced in selling art to fall for this as they may get ripped off. not saying by JP just the chance is there....
if he had of said you could get loads more on art net register as a seller, if they will not except you i would help you sell it if you cover my cost and a small commission thats different, but he did not he used his seller status on artnet and red star to profit on the back of my picture end of.
im sure he is a upstanding guy but imo he has over stepped the line here and im sick of this forum fast becoming a chancers paradise instead of a great place to find out stuff about urban art, sales threads, jokes and great info etc etc........
i realise this was probably genuine that not my beef..
artist stars create trust! imo he is abusing that and is clearly trying to profit off the back of me putting it out there v cheap vs artnet prices.... also i dont want others less experienced in selling art to fall for this as they may get ripped off. not saying by JP just the chance is there....
if he had of said you could get loads more on art net register as a seller, if they will not except you i would help you sell it if you cover my cost and a small commission thats different, but he did not he used his seller status on artnet and red star to profit on the back of my picture end of.
im sure he is a upstanding guy but imo he has over stepped the line here and im sick of this forum fast becoming a chancers paradise instead of a great place to find out stuff about urban art, sales threads, jokes and great info etc etc........
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mayhem
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by mayhem on Mar 8, 2012 11:40:11 GMT 1, Fairplay to JP for responding to this thread, I do not understand the Artnet site and have had no previous dealings with JP.
I can also understand GP's concerns, I think it was right to bring it to the forums attention.
Those who have had dealings with JP have made it clear, He is a stand up and trusted member so that settles the matter.
But GP did not know this obviously. Neither did I. So lesson learnt.
I Hope this can be left to rest without discrediting anyones reputation or any ill feeling towards either JP and GP.
Fairplay to JP for responding to this thread, I do not understand the Artnet site and have had no previous dealings with JP.
I can also understand GP's concerns, I think it was right to bring it to the forums attention.
Those who have had dealings with JP have made it clear, He is a stand up and trusted member so that settles the matter.
But GP did not know this obviously. Neither did I. So lesson learnt.
I Hope this can be left to rest without discrediting anyones reputation or any ill feeling towards either JP and GP.
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balibob
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by balibob on Mar 8, 2012 11:40:31 GMT 1, Selling thru third parties is hardly new, artists selling thru galleries springs to mind as they help to get the best price but at the cost of a commission fee. This offer by JP might sound a bit dodgy at first read, but it seems to have been made in good faith and all above board. Saying that, my first thought was 'cheeky bastard' until I had a little think about it and read JP's response.
Selling thru third parties is hardly new, artists selling thru galleries springs to mind as they help to get the best price but at the cost of a commission fee. This offer by JP might sound a bit dodgy at first read, but it seems to have been made in good faith and all above board. Saying that, my first thought was 'cheeky bastard' until I had a little think about it and read JP's response.
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curiousgeorge
Junior Member
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by curiousgeorge on Mar 8, 2012 12:37:19 GMT 1, Red star,blue star, no star I put equal trust in any member here until I'm proved wrong
I can't see what the fuss is about unless is about the % split.I'm not a massive seller at all but I've sold a couple of bits here which I'm sure were then re-sold at a modest profit.I've also linked sellers and buyers together and been given a drink for my efforts
65/35%
Last offer
+1 JP for even posting
Red star,blue star, no star I put equal trust in any member here until I'm proved wrong I can't see what the fuss is about unless is about the % split.I'm not a massive seller at all but I've sold a couple of bits here which I'm sure were then re-sold at a modest profit.I've also linked sellers and buyers together and been given a drink for my efforts 65/35% Last offer +1 JP for even posting |
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dime683
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mayhem
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by mayhem on Mar 13, 2012 1:44:03 GMT 1, Nearly 10K? where did that valuation come from GP? 
Nearly 10K? where did that valuation come from GP? |
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Graffiti Prints
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Graffiti Prints on Mar 13, 2012 9:05:01 GMT 1, Nearly 10K? where did that valuation come from GP?
thought i would put up at that to see what comes in. dont want to under sell lol
Nearly 10K? where did that valuation come from GP? thought i would put up at that to see what comes in. dont want to under sell lol |
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johnnyh
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by johnnyh on Mar 13, 2012 10:18:49 GMT 1, Nearly 10K? where did that valuation come from GP? thought i would put up at that to see what comes in. dont want to under sell lol
1K - 10K mmmmmm SEEN canvas is this what the forum has become?
Me thinks you new all along and new it was going to ebay based upon all the others you have on there. So all the fuss over JP seems a bit of a game really. Bit out of order in my book.
Nearly 10K? where did that valuation come from GP? thought i would put up at that to see what comes in. dont want to under sell lol 1K - 10K mmmmmm SEEN canvas is this what the forum has become? Me thinks you new all along and new it was going to ebay based upon all the others you have on there. So all the fuss over JP seems a bit of a game really. Bit out of order in my book. |
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tsteve
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February 2012
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by tsteve on Mar 13, 2012 10:30:29 GMT 1, Me thinks you new all along and new it was going to ebay based upon all the others you have on there. So all the fuss over JP seems a bit of a game really. Bit out of order in my book.
Me thinks you new all along and new it was going to ebay based upon all the others you have on there. So all the fuss over JP seems a bit of a game really. Bit out of order in my book. |
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Graffiti Prints
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by Graffiti Prints on Mar 13, 2012 10:37:01 GMT 1, thought i would put up at that to see what comes in. dont want to under sell lol 1K - 10K mmmmmm SEEN canvas is this what the forum has become? Me thinks you new all along and new it was going to ebay based upon all the others you have on there. So all the fuss over JP seems a bit of a game really. Bit out of order in my book.
what a load of shit after seeing them go at 6 or 7 k on artnet thought i would try my luck and hey if it does not sell them im out of pocket for a pound (ebay listing fee) not selling here selling worldwide on the net.
other stuff is the stuff i don't like in my large collection which i do need to trim down as i went nuts buying art between 05 and 09.
no games i am always straight in my dealing here and on ebay no conspiracy here lol although i was waiting for the flak off the gossipy/bitchy members here..... lol
thought i would put up at that to see what comes in. dont want to under sell lol 1K - 10K mmmmmm SEEN canvas is this what the forum has become? Me thinks you new all along and new it was going to ebay based upon all the others you have on there. So all the fuss over JP seems a bit of a game really. Bit out of order in my book. what a load of shit after seeing them go at 6 or 7 k on artnet thought i would try my luck and hey if it does not sell them im out of pocket for a pound (ebay listing fee) not selling here selling worldwide on the net. other stuff is the stuff i don't like in my large collection which i do need to trim down as i went nuts buying art between 05 and 09. no games i am always straight in my dealing here and on ebay no conspiracy here lol although i was waiting for the flak off the gossipy/bitchy members here..... lol |
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johnnyh
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SEEN ๐บ๐ธ Richard "Richie" Mirando โข Godfather of Graffiti, by johnnyh on Mar 13, 2012 11:00:06 GMT 1, Mate do not have a go at me. I do not care what price you sell at thats your business just think all the fuss you made over the JP thing is a bit much considering either you had no idea what it was worth and he did you a massive favour and hence your new price. Or you knew all along.
So its one or the other really. If you new why mention 1K. If you didn't why have a go at JP when regardless of whether you took the deal he showed you it was worth a lot more.
Mate do not have a go at me. I do not care what price you sell at thats your business just think all the fuss you made over the JP thing is a bit much considering either you had no idea what it was worth and he did you a massive favour and hence your new price. Or you knew all along.
So its one or the other really. If you new why mention 1K. If you didn't why have a go at JP when regardless of whether you took the deal he showed you it was worth a lot more.
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