doyle
New Member
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September 2008
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THE MET LOTTERY, by doyle on Mar 5, 2017 0:23:06 GMT 1, @niceguyg cant tell if you are being sarcastic but by the topic of this very thread, you would need to expand on your statement or participate in the competition ๐ The OP is offering ways to answer quicker, rather than implying his questions are difficult.
@niceguyg cant tell if you are being sarcastic but by the topic of this very thread, you would need to expand on your statement or participate in the competition ๐ The OP is offering ways to answer quicker, rather than implying his questions are difficult.
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met
Junior Member
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Mar 5, 2017 0:27:18 GMT 1, I put it to you that the questions are not hard enough.
Fair comment.
There's a balance that needs to be struck between different considerations. One of those is the desire for the game to be reasonably light and fun. To the extent possible, it seems preferable keeping the exam-style atmosphere down to a minimum.
The ideal is for forum members participating to be challenged to some extent, and even better if they discover a subject matter previously unfamiliar to them. But people should also feel they have a chance of winning a competition without the need for excessive memorising or watching the videos multiple times. Separately, very open questions requiring long responses might kill momentum, and it would certainly make my task of assessing the answers more difficult and time-consuming.
Tougher questions do remain an option. A key concern, however, is that they could alienate โ discouraging a number of forum members from watching the videos and participating in the first place.
If this were to happen, I would consider it an own goal. Preaching to the choir is of no interest to me.
I put it to you that the questions are not hard enough. Fair comment. There's a balance that needs to be struck between different considerations. One of those is the desire for the game to be reasonably light and fun. To the extent possible, it seems preferable keeping the exam-style atmosphere down to a minimum. The ideal is for forum members participating to be challenged to some extent, and even better if they discover a subject matter previously unfamiliar to them. But people should also feel they have a chance of winning a competition without the need for excessive memorising or watching the videos multiple times. Separately, very open questions requiring long responses might kill momentum, and it would certainly make my task of assessing the answers more difficult and time-consuming. Tougher questions do remain an option. A key concern, however, is that they could alienate โ discouraging a number of forum members from watching the videos and participating in the first place. If this were to happen, I would consider it an own goal. Preaching to the choir is of no interest to me. |
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
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December 2007
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Cornish Crayon on Mar 5, 2017 9:03:11 GMT 1, I bloomin missed this last night as I was out socialising.......
I knew I'd miss it, drat and double drat
Well done winners
I bloomin missed this last night as I was out socialising.......
I knew I'd miss it, drat and double drat
Well done winners
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Mar 5, 2017 15:32:29 GMT 1,
Here's a message to anyone whose perception may be affected by the fact ed is killing it like a rock star at the moment.
Imagine ed continued his winning streak and won the first 13 competitions. Query whether this would disincentivise you from taking part in Competition 14.
Now, would your willingness to participate in Competition 14 be any greater if, instead, each of the first 13 competitions were won by separate forum members (i.e. with the pool of lottery number holders being 13 different people at that point instead of just 1 or 2)?
If your answer is yes, then why?
Would you see your chances of ending up with the winning lottery-draw number being any higher in the second scenario?
Here's a message to anyone whose perception may be affected by the fact ed is killing it like a rock star at the moment. Imagine ed continued his winning streak and won the first 13 competitions. Query whether this would disincentivise you from taking part in Competition 14. Now, would your willingness to participate in Competition 14 be any greater if, instead, each of the first 13 competitions were won by separate forum members (i.e. with the pool of lottery number holders being 13 different people at that point instead of just 1 or 2)? If your answer is yes, then why? Would you see your chances of ending up with the winning lottery-draw number being any higher in the second scenario? |
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Mar 6, 2017 22:00:00 GMT 1, [...] _____________________________ COMPETITION 3 โ Saturday, 4 March to Monday, 6 March 2017Three questions related to the videos below will be posted on Monday, 6 March at 21:00 GMT (or within a few minutes thereof). The first person to correctly or sufficiently answer all three questions (in accordance with the Game Format and Rules) will be allocated the following two lottery numbers: 6 and 72.6 Loss Aversion and The Endowment Effect [12:17] โ uploaded by Long LuongCRITICAL THINKING - Fallacies: Ad Hominem [HD] [8:10] โ uploaded by Wireless PhilosophyCRITICAL THINKING - Fallacies: Straw Man Fallacy [HD] [5:58] โ uploaded by Wireless Philosophy
C3 QUESTIONS
Keeping in mind point 4 of the Game Format and Rules, please answer the following:
1. First video โ application of theory to practice: The video host refers to experiments on the endowment effect (which Wikipedia describes as "the hypothesis that people ascribe more value to things merely because they own them"). One of these experiments related to sought-after basketball tickets, and the differences in attitude between those who managed to secure tickets and those who didn't.
Give a clear example of how the endowment effect has manifested itself on the Urban Art Association forum, including its predictable impact on posts or threads (e.g. in terms of their numbers or calibre).
2. Second video: Four types or subtypes of ad hominem fallacies are mentioned in the video. Name and briefly describe one of them.
3. Third video: Although more beguiling in spoken rhetoric, straw man arguments are quite common in written form, including on this forum during discussions and exchanges. Sometimes they're unintentional, when a forum member genuinely misunderstands somebody else's position. At other times, they appear deliberate โ i.e. intellectually dishonest and intended to mislead or distract.
The video narrator describes when the straw man fallacy occurs. He also explains the reason it can be effective in misleading people, due to the illusion it creates. In two or three sentences, explain (i) when a straw man fallacy occurs, and (ii) what is the "illusion" the narrator refers to.
[Competition winner to be confirmed as from 21:30 GMT (but no later than 23:59 GMT).]
[...] _____________________________ COMPETITION 3 โ Saturday, 4 March to Monday, 6 March 2017Three questions related to the videos below will be posted on Monday, 6 March at 21:00 GMT (or within a few minutes thereof). The first person to correctly or sufficiently answer all three questions (in accordance with the Game Format and Rules) will be allocated the following two lottery numbers: 6 and 72.6 Loss Aversion and The Endowment Effect [12:17] โ uploaded by Long LuongCRITICAL THINKING - Fallacies: Ad Hominem [HD] [8:10] โ uploaded by Wireless PhilosophyCRITICAL THINKING - Fallacies: Straw Man Fallacy [HD] [5:58] โ uploaded by Wireless PhilosophyKeeping in mind point 4 of the Game Format and Rules, please answer the following: 1. First video โ application of theory to practice: The video host refers to experiments on the endowment effect (which Wikipedia describes as "the hypothesis that people ascribe more value to things merely because they own them"). One of these experiments related to sought-after basketball tickets, and the differences in attitude between those who managed to secure tickets and those who didn't. Give a clear example of how the endowment effect has manifested itself on the Urb an Art Association forum, including its predictable impact on posts or threads (e.g. in terms of their numbers or calibre). 2. Second video: Four types or subtypes of ad hominem fallacies are mentioned in the video. Name and briefly describe one of them. 3. Third video: Although more beguiling in spoken rhetoric, straw man arguments are quite common in written form, including on this forum during discussions and exchanges. Sometimes they're unintentional, when a forum member genuinely misunderstands somebody else's position. At other times, they appear deliberate โ i.e. intellectually dishonest and intended to mislead or distract. The video narrator describes when the straw man fallacy occurs. He also explains the reason it can be effective in misleading people, due to the illusion it creates. In two or three sentences, explain (i) when a straw man fallacy occurs, and (ii) what is the "illusion" the narrator refers to. [Competition winner to be confirmed as from 21:30 GMT (but no later than 23:59 GMT).] |
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.dappy
Full Member
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December 2010
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THE MET LOTTERY, by .dappy on Mar 6, 2017 22:10:06 GMT 1, 1. It's all about the stars baby. More stars that a member has means more big bollox that you should look up to.
2. An argument that is used to counter another argument; but, it is based on feelings or prejudice, rather than facts, reason or logic. It is often a personal attack on one's character rather than an attempt to address the issue at hand.
3.
i) A straw man arguements occurs when a person a) does not have the intellect to refute what has been said b) just wants to argue with the person
ii) it is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression or illusion of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.
1. It's all about the stars baby. More stars that a member has means more big bollox that you should look up to.
2. An argument that is used to counter another argument; but, it is based on feelings or prejudice, rather than facts, reason or logic. It is often a personal attack on one's character rather than an attempt to address the issue at hand.
3.
i) A straw man arguements occurs when a person a) does not have the intellect to refute what has been said b) just wants to argue with the person
ii) it is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression or illusion of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.
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twist65
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,289
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November 2008
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THE MET LOTTERY, by twist65 on Mar 6, 2017 22:10:20 GMT 1, 1 - The new Martin Watson print comes out. Someone likes it and posts quite encouragingly about it, but isn't sure if they will snag one so post cautiously positive. They get one and all of a sudden its the best print ever, when it lands the quality is amazing, continuous good posts about the print and the artist in general so as to keep his stock high... etc...
2 - Guilt by association - where you align someones argument with someone or something bad/untrustworthy/negative etc -so therefore the argument must be false because so-and-so thinks so,,
3i) - Straw man occurs when someone misrepresents someones position to make it easier to critique
ii) The illusion is that the position seems to have been critiqued due to a false portrayal of the original claim
1 - The new Martin Watson print comes out. Someone likes it and posts quite encouragingly about it, but isn't sure if they will snag one so post cautiously positive. They get one and all of a sudden its the best print ever, when it lands the quality is amazing, continuous good posts about the print and the artist in general so as to keep his stock high... etc...
2 - Guilt by association - where you align someones argument with someone or something bad/untrustworthy/negative etc -so therefore the argument must be false because so-and-so thinks so,,
3i) - Straw man occurs when someone misrepresents someones position to make it easier to critique
ii) The illusion is that the position seems to have been critiqued due to a false portrayal of the original claim
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Mar 6, 2017 22:32:39 GMT 1, 1 - The new Martin Watson print comes out. Someone likes it and posts quite encouragingly about it, but isn't sure if they will snag one so post cautiously positive. They get one and all of a sudden its the best print ever, when it lands the quality is amazing, continuous good posts about the print and the artist in general so as to keep his stock high... etc... 2 - Guilt by association - where you align someones argument with someone or something bad/untrustworthy/negative etc -so therefore the argument must be false because so-and-so thinks so,, 3i) - Straw man occurs when someone misrepresents someones position to make it easier to critique ii) The illusion is that the position seems to have been critiqued due to a false portrayal of the original claim
Lottery numbers 6 and 7 allocated to twist65. Congratulations.
C3 REFERENCE ANSWERS
1. Example: Someone who has purchased artwork they wish to offload may ascribe more value to that artwork simply because they own it โ often a higher value than potential buyers (i.e. the market) deem reasonable.
Many times this results in the artwork failing to sell at the initial asking price. The forum sometimes then has to endure that seller endlessly "bumping" their 'For Sale' thread.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect
2. Ad hominem fallacy types described in the video:
(i) Abusive: An attack against the person or the character of the person making the argument, rather than an attack against the argument itself.
(ii) Circumstantial: An attack against the circumstance of the person making the argument (e.g. their conflict of interest or bias), rather than an attack against the argument itself.
(iii) Tu quoque ("You also"): An attack against the hypocrisy of the person making the argument (more generally, highlighting the fact that person's behaviour is inconsistent with their argument), rather than an attack against the argument itself.
(iv) Guilt by association: An attack based on the fact that others who hold similar positions are disreputable, rather than an attack against the argument itself.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
3. Using the video narrator's words:
"The straw man [...] fallacy occurs when an opponent's position is misrepresented in order to make it easier to critique. [...] an opponent's position is presented in a way that resembles the original claim but is not the actual claim advanced. It creates the illusion that a position has been refuted or critiqued, by switching out the original position with a different one."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
_____________________________
Those who are passionate about psychology and behavioural economics will be familiar with Dan Ariely (in the first C3 video), a professor at Duke University I referred to 15 months ago here. For everyone else, I highly recommend watching a few of Ariely's TED Talks: www.ted.com/search?q=ariely
As a further prompt, see this one example:
Are we in control of our decisions? | Dan Ariely [17:26]
โ uploaded by TED
If anyone is interested in the subject of fallacies, i.e. incorrect arguments in logic, check out the list of different types here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
Regarding the deliberate and dishonest use of straw man responses, Kellyanne Conway is a true master of these (and other evasive techniques to avoid answering awkward questions).
Conway's difficulty now is a tipping-point issue. Having so often used straw man responses over a very short period of time, she has increasingly lost her credibility and initial effectiveness. Larger numbers of people are starting to see through her tactics. The more intelligent interviewers are also on guard for them โ often able to spot them in real time, and sometimes to counter effectively. This analysis is rather amusing:
Kellyanne Conway's interview tricks, explained [6:31]
โ uploaded by Vox
1 - The new Martin Watson print comes out. Someone likes it and posts quite encouragingly about it, but isn't sure if they will snag one so post cautiously positive. They get one and all of a sudden its the best print ever, when it lands the quality is amazing, continuous good posts about the print and the artist in general so as to keep his stock high... etc... 2 - Guilt by association - where you align someones argument with someone or something bad/untrustworthy/negative etc -so therefore the argument must be false because so-and-so thinks so,, 3i) - Straw man occurs when someone misrepresents someones position to make it easier to critique ii) The illusion is that the position seems to have been critiqued due to a false portrayal of the original claim Lottery numbers 6 and 7 allocated to twist65. Congratulations. C3 REFERENCE ANSWERS1. Example: Someone who has purchased artwork they wish to offload may ascribe more value to that artwork simply because they own it โ often a higher value than potential buyers (i.e. the market) deem reasonable. Many times this results in the artwork failing to sell at the initial asking price. The forum sometimes then has to endure that seller endlessly "bumping" their 'For Sale' thread. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect2. Ad hominem fallacy types described in the video: (i) Abusive: An attack against the person or the character of the person making the argument, rather than an attack against the argument itself. (ii) Circumstantial: An attack against the circumstance of the person making the argument (e.g. their conflict of interest or bias), rather than an attack against the argument itself. (iii) Tu quoque ("You also"): An attack against the hypocrisy of the person making the argument (more generally, highlighting the fact that person's behaviour is inconsistent with their argument), rather than an attack against the argument itself. (iv) Guilt by association: An attack based on the fact that others who hold similar positions are disreputable, rather than an attack against the argument itself. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem3. Using the video narrator's words: "The straw man [...] fallacy occurs when an opponent's position is misrepresented in order to make it easier to critique. [...] an opponent's position is presented in a way that resembles the original claim but is not the actual claim advanced. It creates the illusion that a position has been refuted or critiqued, by switching out the original position with a different one."en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_____________________________ Those who are passionate about psychology and behavioural economics will be familiar with Dan Ariely (in the first C3 video), a professor at Duke University I referred to 15 months ago here. For everyone else, I highly recommend watching a few of Ariely's TED Talks: www.ted.com/search?q=arielyAs a further prompt, see this one example: Are we in control of our decisions? | Dan Ariely [17:26] โ uploaded by TEDIf anyone is interested in the subject of fallacies, i.e. incorrect arguments in logic, check out the list of different types here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallaciesRegarding the deliberate and dishonest use of straw man responses, Kellyanne Conway is a true master of these (and other evasive techniques to avoid answering awkward questions). Conway's difficulty now is a tipping-point issue. Having so often used straw man responses over a very short period of time, she has increasingly lost her credibility and initial effectiveness. Larger numbers of people are starting to see through her tactics. The more intelligent interviewers are also on guard for them โ often able to spot them in real time, and sometimes to counter effectively. This analysis is rather amusing: Kellyanne Conway's interview tricks, explained [6:31] โ uploaded by Vox |
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Mar 6, 2017 22:40:52 GMT 1,
Let's step away from the philosophy and psychology themes for now. In addition, we can ratchet up the endurance element of the game. Sprinters among you may start to lag here. And some tactical adaptations might be required by players.
COMPETITION 4 โ Monday, 6 March to Thursday, 9 March 2017
Three questions related to the video below will be posted on Thursday, 9 March at 21:00 GMT (or within a few minutes thereof).
The first person to correctly or sufficiently answer all three questions (in accordance with the Game Format and Rules) will be allocated the following three lottery numbers: 8, 9 and 10
Food, Inc. (2008) [1:33:44]
โ directed by Robert Kenner
โ uploaded by O Passageiro da Agonia
Also available at this link:
documentary-movie.com/food-inc/
Let's step away from the philosophy and psychology themes for now. In addition, we can ratchet up the endurance element of the game. Sprinters among you may start to lag here. And some tactical adaptations might be required by players. COMPETITION 4 โ Monday, 6 March to Thursday, 9 March 2017Three questions related to the video below will be posted on Thursday, 9 March at 21:00 GMT (or within a few minutes thereof). The first person to correctly or sufficiently answer all three questions (in accordance with the Game Format and Rules) will be allocated the following three lottery numbers: 8, 9 and 10Food, Inc. (2008) [1:33:44] โ directed by Robert Kennerโ uploaded by O Passageiro da AgoniaAlso available at this link: documentary-movie.com/food-inc/ |
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.dappy
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,841
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December 2010
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THE MET LOTTERY, by .dappy on Mar 6, 2017 22:44:58 GMT 1, twist65 well done ... you deserve it
met disappointed not to be mentioned  ... although I was concentrating on getting my answers out first 
twist65 well done ... you deserve it met disappointed not to be mentioned ... although I was concentrating on getting my answers out first
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doyle
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 930
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September 2008
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THE MET LOTTERY, by doyle on Mar 6, 2017 22:49:01 GMT 1, 1. Example of endowment effect:There is a lottery for ticket to the new banksy Walldoff hotel, those who win a ticket attribute a high value to it and think it is worth way more and those who do not get one will argue that they would be saving money anyway, and think of the money they will save from a whole 1week trip abroad.
2. 4 subtypes:
1.Abusive type: a forum member attacks another forum member calling them a hurtful name or criticising them instead of criticising their argument. So attacks their character and not original argument.
2.Circumstantial
3.Tu Quque
4. Guilt by association
3(i) it occurs when tou attack an opponents position and its misrepresented so it is easier to critique.
(ii) it creates the illusion that the position has been critiqued by switching the original position with a different position.
1. Example of endowment effect:There is a lottery for ticket to the new banksy Walldoff hotel, those who win a ticket attribute a high value to it and think it is worth way more and those who do not get one will argue that they would be saving money anyway, and think of the money they will save from a whole 1week trip abroad.
2. 4 subtypes:
1.Abusive type: a forum member attacks another forum member calling them a hurtful name or criticising them instead of criticising their argument. So attacks their character and not original argument.
2.Circumstantial
3.Tu Quque
4. Guilt by association
3(i) it occurs when tou attack an opponents position and its misrepresented so it is easier to critique.
(ii) it creates the illusion that the position has been critiqued by switching the original position with a different position.
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doyle
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 930
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September 2008
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THE MET LOTTERY, by doyle on Mar 6, 2017 22:50:40 GMT 1, Haha I'm late again haha I was typing away๐
Haha I'm late again haha I was typing away๐
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twist65
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,289
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November 2008
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THE MET LOTTERY, by twist65 on Mar 6, 2017 23:10:33 GMT 1, Thanks! I enjoyed that. Unlucky dappy - and doyle, good Walled Off example too!
Now I own lottery tickets I feel myself valuing this competition much greater, if only there was a name for that sort of thing..
Thanks! I enjoyed that. Unlucky dappy - and doyle, good Walled Off example too!
Now I own lottery tickets I feel myself valuing this competition much greater, if only there was a name for that sort of thing..
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Schrรถdinger's Chat on Mar 7, 2017 9:16:57 GMT 1, Food Inc is a great film, an important film to watch if you even the slightest interest in where your food comes from.
I would love to see a similar documentary focused on UK food production if anyone knows of one.
Food Inc is a great film, an important film to watch if you even the slightest interest in where your food comes from.
I would love to see a similar documentary focused on UK food production if anyone knows of one.
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mash
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 399
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September 2007
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THE MET LOTTERY, by mash on Mar 8, 2017 12:35:22 GMT 1, Food Inc is a great film, an important film to watch if you even the slightest interest in where your food comes from. I would love to see a similar documentary focused on UK food production if anyone knows of one.
I'll post some or DM some. I became interested when I started keeping my own. The difference between grass fed and corn fed is extreme not least in the fact the grass fed animals have much lower levels of cholesterol...
Food Inc is a great film, an important film to watch if you even the slightest interest in where your food comes from. I would love to see a similar documentary focused on UK food production if anyone knows of one. I'll post some or DM some. I became interested when I started keeping my own. The difference between grass fed and corn fed is extreme not least in the fact the grass fed animals have much lower levels of cholesterol... |
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Schrรถdinger's Chat on Mar 8, 2017 13:42:42 GMT 1, Please do Markmash, I have some awareness as I worked closely with farms across Sussex and Hampshire for a number of years. Whilst there were some huge farms I never saw anything as terrifying as I saw in Food Inc.
That cow with the hole in it's side WTF, just how nature intended!
Please do Markmash, I have some awareness as I worked closely with farms across Sussex and Hampshire for a number of years. Whilst there were some huge farms I never saw anything as terrifying as I saw in Food Inc.
That cow with the hole in it's side WTF, just how nature intended!
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ed
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 697
๐๐ป 666
September 2007
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THE MET LOTTERY, by ed on Mar 9, 2017 12:05:16 GMT 1, i was too cognitively impaired to take part the other day and i'm at the cinema tonight. I'm gonna guess the questions and answer in advance, there's nothing in the rules about having to wait for the questions, right...just whoever posts the most satisfctory ones first. I'm pretty sure Met and I are working on the same intellectual level now, totally gonna guess the right questions...
Q1. Link this 90 min video to the art market
1. Prints are the processed meat of the art world, creating alot of hot air and damaging my health wealth.
Q2. What happened in 1998 and how can it be linked to our forum?
2. FDA tried to bring in a microbial testing law; if a plant consistently failed a test because of too much sh1t in the meat it could be shut down. If i have some understanding of the forum, this is known as the Jboy Law.
Q3. Say something about Banksy...
3.
i was too cognitively impaired to take part the other day and i'm at the cinema tonight. I'm gonna guess the questions and answer in advance, there's nothing in the rules about having to wait for the questions, right...just whoever posts the most satisfctory ones first. I'm pretty sure Met and I are working on the same intellectual level now, totally gonna guess the right questions...
Q1. Link this 90 min video to the art market
1. Prints are the processed meat of the art world, creating alot of hot air and damaging my health wealth.
Q2. What happened in 1998 and how can it be linked to our forum?
2. FDA tried to bring in a microbial testing law; if a plant consistently failed a test because of too much sh1t in the meat it could be shut down. If i have some understanding of the forum, this is known as the Jboy Law.
Q3. Say something about Banksy...
3.
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
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June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Mar 9, 2017 22:00:01 GMT 1, [...] COMPETITION 4 โ Monday, 6 March to Thursday, 9 March 2017Three questions related to the video below will be posted on Thursday, 9 March at 21:00 GMT (or within a few minutes thereof). The first person to correctly or sufficiently answer all three questions (in accordance with the Game Format and Rules) will be allocated the following three lottery numbers: 8, 9 and 10Food, Inc. (2008) [1:33:44] โ directed by Robert Kennerโ uploaded by O Passageiro da AgoniaAlso available at this link: documentary-movie.com/food-inc/
C4 QUESTIONS
Time references below are to the broad half-hour periods in the video where the answer to the relevant question can be found.
Keeping in mind point 4 of the Game Format and Rules, please answer the following:
1. [30:00โ1:00:00] In the film chapter titled, The Dollar Menu, a low-income family (mother, father and two daughters) is followed as it orders a meal at a drive-through and later goes grocery shopping. Briefly describe the two sides of the lose-lose situation the family finds itself in when shopping at the grocery store.
2. [1:00:00โ1:30:00] In the film chapter titled, Hidden Costs, Gary Hirshberg is seen walking the filmmakers through the Natural Products Expo in Anaheim, California. He's the company executive from Stonyfield Farm, a once-independent organic yogurt producer that was acquired by the food conglomerate, Groupe Danone.
With massive retailers like Walmart now stocking Stonyfield Farm organic yogurts and other ethical products (for economic reasons, i.e. in response to customer demand), Hirshberg describes the scenario of running into his old environmental friends โ many being "initially horrified by the kinds of company" he's keeping these days. Describe the argument Hirshberg puts forward to these old friends regarding the impact of one purchase order from Walmart.
3. [1:00:00โ1:30:00] Barbara Kowalcyk is the food safety advocate whose 2 ยฝ year-old son, Kevin, died from complications due to E. coli O157:H7 infection after he ate a contaminated hamburger. In the film chapter titled, The Veil, the director asks her, "Can you tell me how you've changed how you eat?"
Kowalcyk becomes hesitant about responding on camera. Give the name or nickname of the legislation that made her nervous, i.e. her reason for not answering the question.
[Competition winner to be confirmed as from 22:00 GMT (but no later than 23:59 GMT).]
[...] COMPETITION 4 โ Monday, 6 March to Thursday, 9 March 2017Three questions related to the video below will be posted on Thursday, 9 March at 21:00 GMT (or within a few minutes thereof). The first person to correctly or sufficiently answer all three questions (in accordance with the Game Format and Rules) will be allocated the following three lottery numbers: 8, 9 and 10Food, Inc. (2008) [1:33:44] โ directed by Robert Kennerโ uploaded by O Passageiro da AgoniaAlso available at this link: documentary-movie.com/food-inc/Time references below are to the broad half-hour periods in the video where the answer to the relevant question can be found. Keeping in mind point 4 of the Game Format and Rules, please answer the following: 1. [30:00โ1:00:00] In the film chapter titled, The Dollar Menu, a low-income family (mother, father and two daughters) is followed as it orders a meal at a drive-through and later goes grocery shopping. Briefly describe the two sides of the lose-lose situation the family finds itself in when shopping at the grocery store. 2. [1:00:00โ1:30:00] In the film chapter titled, Hidden Costs, Gary Hirshberg is seen walking the filmmakers through the Natural Products Expo in Anaheim, California. He's the company executive from Stonyfield Farm, a once-independent organic yogurt producer that was acquired by the food conglomerate, Groupe Danone. With massive retailers like Walmart now stocking Stonyfield Farm organic yogurts and other ethical products (for economic reasons, i.e. in response to customer demand), Hirshberg describes the scenario of running into his old environmental friends โ many being "initially horrified by the kinds of company" he's keeping these days. Describe the argument Hirshberg puts forward to these old friends regarding the impact of one purchase order from Walmart. 3. [1:00:00โ1:30:00] Barbara Kowalcyk is the food safety advocate whose 2 ยฝ year-old son, Kevin, died from complications due to E. coli O157:H7 infection after he ate a contaminated hamburger. In the film chapter titled, The Veil, the director asks her, "Can you tell me how you've changed how you eat?"Kowalcyk becomes hesitant about responding on camera. Give the name or nickname of the legislation that made her nervous, i.e. her reason for not answering the question. [Competition winner to be confirmed as from 22:00 GMT (but no later than 23:59 GMT).] |
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twist65
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,289
๐๐ป 582
November 2008
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THE MET LOTTERY, by twist65 on Mar 9, 2017 22:28:43 GMT 1, 1. The two sides are 1) you lose if you buy cheap junk food because of the negative health aspects to you and your family. 2) you lose if you buy fresh/healthy produce as its too expensive for you to afford on your budget. So you are effectively priced out of having a healthy diet.
2. the environmental impact - tonnes of pesticides etc are not used because environmentally sound products are given shelf space instead of harmful ones, so a purchase order from Walmart helps save the world...
3 the veggie libel laws
1. The two sides are 1) you lose if you buy cheap junk food because of the negative health aspects to you and your family. 2) you lose if you buy fresh/healthy produce as its too expensive for you to afford on your budget. So you are effectively priced out of having a healthy diet.
2. the environmental impact - tonnes of pesticides etc are not used because environmentally sound products are given shelf space instead of harmful ones, so a purchase order from Walmart helps save the world...
3 the veggie libel laws
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Schrรถdinger's Chat on Mar 9, 2017 22:30:44 GMT 1, 1. Vegetables are more expensive than dollar meals (bad calories are cheap), they are low earners
2. Savings of tonnes of fertiliser, tonnes of herbicide, tonnes of chemical fertiliser etc. That one purchase order from wal-mart creates
3. Veggie libel law
1. Vegetables are more expensive than dollar meals (bad calories are cheap), they are low earners
2. Savings of tonnes of fertiliser, tonnes of herbicide, tonnes of chemical fertiliser etc. That one purchase order from wal-mart creates
3. Veggie libel law
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doyle
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 930
๐๐ป 743
September 2008
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THE MET LOTTERY, by doyle on Mar 9, 2017 22:54:30 GMT 1, 1. -healthy food is too expensive and in long run you end up spending more money on medicine in order to remain healthy. So eating bad food is cheaper but you will end up paying out of your pocket for the medicine to keep you alive.
2. He feels ok about Walmart making a big purchase as it can 'save the world' in the sense that while he realises they are not making a moral purchase, it is purely economical, that one purchase will make a difference.
3.veggie libel law.
1. -healthy food is too expensive and in long run you end up spending more money on medicine in order to remain healthy. So eating bad food is cheaper but you will end up paying out of your pocket for the medicine to keep you alive.
2. He feels ok about Walmart making a big purchase as it can 'save the world' in the sense that while he realises they are not making a moral purchase, it is purely economical, that one purchase will make a difference.
3.veggie libel law.
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,965
๐๐ป 2,902
December 2007
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Cornish Crayon on Mar 9, 2017 23:11:16 GMT 1, My shift this week counts me out of entering this week......
Buggaration!!!!!
My shift this week counts me out of entering this week......
Buggaration!!!!!
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Mar 9, 2017 23:20:41 GMT 1, 1. The two sides are 1) you lose if you buy cheap junk food because of the negative health aspects to you and your family. 2) you lose if you buy fresh/healthy produce as its too expensive for you to afford on your budget. So you are effectively priced out of having a healthy diet. 2. the environmental impact - tonnes of pesticides etc are not used because environmentally sound products are given shelf space instead of harmful ones, so a purchase order from Walmart helps save the world... 3 the veggie libel laws
Lottery numbers 8, 9 and 10 allocated to twist65. Congratulations. Glory, a second time around.
Excellent effort by Schrรถdinger's Chat. And by doyle, whose steadfastness is most impressive.
Cornish Crayon: Not to worry. We're here all month.
ed unhelpfully threw a spanner in the works when he somehow managed to guess earlier versions of the questions, forcing me to redraft them all at the last minute.
C4 REFERENCE ANSWERS
1.
(i) Much of the food that is healthy โ fresh fruit and vegetables โ is prohibitively priced for the Gonzรกlez family, meaning few of these items can be purchased.
[The family's dilemma is intensified by the fact the father is a diabetic, so its members are aware of the importance of a healthy diet. At the same time, the family's already-limited budget is further diminished by the significant monthly expenditure incurred on the father's medicine.]
(ii) The cheaper items in the supermarket, which the family can afford, tend to be less healthy or unhealthy โ like processed food and junk food. [38:50โ40:53]
[Michael Pollan: "Why is it that you can buy a double cheeseburger at McDonald's for 99 cents, and you can't even get a head of broccoli for 99 cents? We've skewed our food system to the bad calories. And it's not an accident. The reason that those calories are cheaper is because those are the ones we're heavily subsidising.
And this is directly tied to the kind of agriculture that we're practising and the kind of farm policies we have. All those snack-food calories are the ones that come from the commodity crops โ from the wheat, from the corn, and from the soy beans. By making those calories really cheap, that's one of the reasons that the biggest predictor of obesity is income level." [40:54โ41:40]]
2. Quoting Gary Hirshberg:
"When I run into my old environmental friends, many are initially horrified by the kinds of company that I'm keeping these days. But when I then go on to explain what the impact of one purchase order from Walmart is โ in terms of not pounds but tons of pesticide, tons of herbicide, tons of chemical fertiliser โ the discussion... we get away from the emotion and we get down to the facts." [1:04:32โ1:04:58]
["We're not going to get rid of capitalism. Certainly we're not going to get rid of it in the time that we need to arrest global warming, and reverse the toxification of our air, our food and our water. We need to be much more urgent. And if we attempt to make perfect the enemy of the good, and to say we're only going to buy food from the most perfect system within 100 miles of us, we're never going to get there." [1:00:30โ1:00:55]]
3. Barbara Kowalcyk was concerned about veggie libel laws / food libel laws / food disparagement laws.
[Food disparagement laws have been adopted by 13 U.S. states, with the intention of making it easier for food producers to hold people liable for criticising their products. The following Wikipedia article is poor and lacks comprehensiveness, but offers a quick overview:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_libel_laws
For this purpose, disregard the section headed, McLibel case. Although fascinating, it creates confusion and should not have been included in the above Wikipedia article. That was an English libel case where general laws of defamation were applicable. England and Wales do not have libel laws specific to food disparagement.]
[Additional information via film quotes from Michael Pollan (Author, The Omnivore's Dilemma); Allen Trenkle (Ruminant Nutrition Expert, Iowa State University); and Eric Schlosser (Author, Fast Food Nation):
Pollan: "Cows are not designed by evolution to eat corn, they're designed by evolution to eat grass. And the only reason we feed them corn is because corn is really cheap [Government subsidies allow corn to be sold below the cost of production.] and corn makes them fat quickly." [22:41โ22:54]
Trenkle: "The animals evolved on consuming grass. There's some research that indicates that the high corn diet results in E. coli [in cows' stomachs] that are acid-resistant. And these would be the more harmful E. coli." [23:33โ23:51]
Pollan: "So you feed corn to cattle. And E. coli, which is a very common bug, evolves. And a certain mutation occurs. And a strain called the E. coli O157:H7 appears on the world stage. It's a product of the diet we're feeding cattle on the feedlots, and it's a product of feedlot life. The animals stand ankle-deep in their manure all day long. So that if one cow has it, the other cows will get it. When they get to the slaughterhouse, their hides are caked with manure. And if the slaughterhouse is slaughtering 400 animals an hour, how do you keep that manure from getting on to those carcasses? And that's how the manure gets in the meat. And now this thing that wasn't in the world, it's in the food system." [23:55โ24:52]
Schlosser: "There's always been food poisoning. As more and more technology is being applied to the production of food, you would think it would be getting safer, not more contaminated. But the processing plants have gotten bigger and bigger. It's just perfect for taking bad pathogens and spreading them far and wide." [26:20โ26:40]
Schlosser: "In the 1970s, there were literally thousands of slaughterhouses in the United States. And today, we have 13 slaughterhouses that process the majority of beef that is sold in the United States. The hamburger of today, it has pieces of thousands of different cattle ground up in that one hamburger patty. The odds increase exponentially that one of those animals was carrying a dangerous pathogen. It's remarkable how toothless are regulatory agencies are when you look closely at it. And that's how the industry wants it." [26:51โ27:29]
Pollan: "These companies fight tooth and nail against labelling. The fast food industry fought against giving you the calorie information. They fought against telling you if there's trans fat in their food. The meat packing industry for years prevented country-of-origin labelling. They fought not to label genetically-modified foods. And now 70% of processed food in the supermarket has some genetically-modified ingredient.
I think one of the most important battles for consumers to fight is the right to know what's in their food and how it was grown. Not only do they not want you to know what's in it. They have managed to make it against the law to criticise their products." [1:19:05โ1:19:53]
Schlosser: "In Colorado, it's a felony if you're convicted under a veggie libel law. So you could go to prison for criticising the ground beef that's being produced in the State of Colorado." [1:21:32โ1:21:44]
Pollan: "There is an effort in several farm States to make it illegal to publish a photo of any industrial food operation, any feedlot operation. [1:21:44โ1:21:54]
Schlosser: "At the same time, they've also gotten bills passed that are called 'Cheeseburger Bills', that make it very, very difficult for you to sue them. These companies have legions of attorneys. And they may sue even though they know they can't win โ just to send a message." [1:21:55โ1:22:14]
1. The two sides are 1) you lose if you buy cheap junk food because of the negative health aspects to you and your family. 2) you lose if you buy fresh/healthy produce as its too expensive for you to afford on your budget. So you are effectively priced out of having a healthy diet. 2. the environmental impact - tonnes of pesticides etc are not used because environmentally sound products are given shelf space instead of harmful ones, so a purchase order from Walmart helps save the world... 3 the veggie libel laws Lottery numbers 8, 9 and 10 allocated to twist65. Congratulations. Glory, a second time around. Excellent effort by Schrรถdinger's Chat. And by doyle, whose steadfastness is most impressive. Cornish Crayon: Not to worry. We're here all month. ed unhelpfully threw a spanner in the works when he somehow managed to guess earlier versions of the questions, forcing me to redraft them all at the last minute. C4 REFERENCE ANSWERS1. (i) Much of the food that is healthy โ fresh fruit and vegetables โ is prohibitively priced for the Gonzรกlez family, meaning few of these items can be purchased. [The family's dilemma is intensified by the fact the father is a diabetic, so its members are aware of the importance of a healthy diet. At the same time, the family's already-limited budget is further diminished by the significant monthly expenditure incurred on the father's medicine.] (ii) The cheaper items in the supermarket, which the family can afford, tend to be less healthy or unhealthy โ like processed food and junk food. [38:50โ40:53] [Michael Pollan: "Why is it that you can buy a double cheeseburger at McDonald's for 99 cents, and you can't even get a head of broccoli for 99 cents? We've skewed our food system to the bad calories. And it's not an accident. The reason that those calories are cheaper is because those are the ones we're heavily subsidising.
And this is directly tied to the kind of agriculture that we're practising and the kind of farm policies we have. All those snack-food calories are the ones that come from the commodity crops โ from the wheat, from the corn, and from the soy beans. By making those calories really cheap, that's one of the reasons that the biggest predictor of obesity is income level." [40:54โ41:40]]2. Quoting Gary Hirshberg: "When I run into my old environmental friends, many are initially horrified by the kinds of company that I'm keeping these days. But when I then go on to explain what the impact of one purchase order from Walmart is โ in terms of not pounds but tons of pesticide, tons of herbicide, tons of chemical fertiliser โ the discussion... we get away from the emotion and we get down to the facts." [1:04:32โ1:04:58] ["We're not going to get rid of capitalism. Certainly we're not going to get rid of it in the time that we need to arrest global warming, and reverse the toxification of our air, our food and our water. We need to be much more urgent. And if we attempt to make perfect the enemy of the good, and to say we're only going to buy food from the most perfect system within 100 miles of us, we're never going to get there." [1:00:30โ1:00:55]]3. Barbara Kowalcyk was concerned about veggie libel laws / food libel laws / food disparagement laws. [Food disparagement laws have been adopted by 13 U.S. states, with the intention of making it easier for food producers to hold people liable for criticising their products. The following Wikipedia article is poor and lacks comprehensiveness, but offers a quick overview: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_libel_lawsFor this purpose, disregard the section headed, McLibel case. Although fascinating, it creates confusion and should not have been included in the ab ove Wikipedia article. That was an English libel case where general laws of defamation were applicable. England and Wales do not have libel laws specific to food disparagement.] [Additional information via film quotes from Michael Pollan (Author, The Omnivore's Dilemma); Allen Trenkle (Ruminant Nutrition Expert, Iowa State University); and Eric Schlosser (Author, Fast Food Nation):
Pollan: "Cows are not designed by evolution to eat corn, they're designed by evolution to eat grass. And the only reason we feed them corn is because corn is really cheap [Government subsidies allow corn to be sold below the cost of production.] and corn makes them fat quickly." [22:41โ22:54]
Trenkle: "The animals evolved on consuming grass. There's some research that indicates that the high corn diet results in E. coli [in cows' stomachs] that are acid-resistant. And these would be the more harmful E. coli." [23:33โ23:51]
Pollan: "So you feed corn to cattle. And E. coli, which is a very common bug, evolves. And a certain mutation occurs. And a strain called the E. coli O157:H7 appears on the world stage. It's a product of the diet we're feeding cattle on the feedlots, and it's a product of feedlot life. The animals stand ankle-deep in their manure all day long. So that if one cow has it, the other cows will get it. When they get to the slaughterhouse, their hides are caked with manure. And if the slaughterhouse is slaughtering 400 animals an hour, how do you keep that manure from getting on to those carcasses? And that's how the manure gets in the meat. And now this thing that wasn't in the world, it's in the food system." [23:55โ24:52]
Schlosser: "There's always been food poisoning. As more and more technology is being applied to the production of food, you would think it would be getting safer, not more contaminated. But the processing plants have gotten bigger and bigger. It's just perfect for taking bad pathogens and spreading them far and wide." [26:20โ26:40]
Schlosser: "In the 1970s, there were literally thousands of slaughterhouses in the United States. And today, we have 13 slaughterhouses that process the majority of beef that is sold in the United States. The hamburger of today, it has pieces of thousands of different cattle ground up in that one hamburger patty. The odds increase exponentially that one of those animals was carrying a dangerous pathogen. It's remarkable how toothless are regulatory agencies are when you look closely at it. And that's how the industry wants it." [26:51โ27:29]
Pollan: "These companies fight tooth and nail against labelling. The fast food industry fought against giving you the calorie information. They fought against telling you if there's trans fat in their food. The meat packing industry for years prevented country-of-origin labelling. They fought not to label genetically-modified foods. And now 70% of processed food in the supermarket has some genetically-modified ingredient.
I think one of the most important battles for consumers to fight is the right to know what's in their food and how it was grown. Not only do they not want you to know what's in it. They have managed to make it against the law to criticise their products." [1:19:05โ1:19:53]
Schlosser: "In Colorado, it's a felony if you're convicted under a veggie libel law. So you could go to prison for criticising the ground beef that's being produced in the State of Colorado." [1:21:32โ1:21:44]
Pollan: "There is an effort in several farm States to make it illegal to publish a photo of any industrial food operation, any feedlot operation. [1:21:44โ1:21:54]
Schlosser: "At the same time, they've also gotten bills passed that are called 'Cheeseburger Bills', that make it very, very difficult for you to sue them. These companies have legions of attorneys. And they may sue even though they know they can't win โ just to send a message." [1:21:55โ1:22:14] |
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met
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,796
๐๐ป 6,762
June 2009
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THE MET LOTTERY, by met on Mar 9, 2017 23:39:02 GMT 1,
Looks like we've been moved / relegated to the ghetto that is the Art Competitions and Giveaways board.
Fair enough, though I would say this game is just as much (if not more) about sharing ideas and information than about competitions or a giveaway.
Perhaps there's an argument to be made against excessive compartmentalisation of the forum. Threads on the low-traffic boards are more likely to be overlooked by casual viewers who might otherwise consider them worth reading.
On the plus side, the hardcore players among you can rejoice in the fact that, going forward, you'll probably have fewer competitors to fend off.
_____________________________
COMPETITION 5 โ Thursday, 9 March to Sunday, 12 March 2017
Three questions related to the video below will be posted on Sunday, 12 March at 21:00 GMT (or within a few minutes thereof).
The first person to correctly or sufficiently answer all three questions (in accordance with the Game Format and Rules) will be allocated the following three lottery numbers: 11, 12 and 13
Fed Up (2014) [1:35:43]
โ directed by Stephanie Soechtig
โ uploaded by David Buckner
Looks like we've been moved / relegated to the ghetto that is the Art Competitions and Giveaways board.
Fair enough, though I would say this game is just as much (if not more) about sharing ideas and information than about competitions or a giveaway.
Perhaps there's an argument to be made against excessive compartmentalisation of the forum. Threads on the low-traffic boards are more likely to be overlooked by casual viewers who might otherwise consider them worth reading.
On the plus side, the hardcore players among you can rejoice in the fact that, going forward, you'll probably have fewer competitors to fend off.
_____________________________
COMPETITION 5 โ Thursday, 9 March to Sunday, 12 March 2017
Three questions related to the video below will be posted on Sunday, 12 March at 21:00 GMT (or within a few minutes thereof).
The first person to correctly or sufficiently answer all three questions (in accordance with the Game Format and Rules) will be allocated the following three lottery numbers: 11, 12 and 13
Fed Up (2014) [1:35:43]
โ directed by Stephanie Soechtig
โ uploaded by David Buckner
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twist65
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,289
๐๐ป 582
November 2008
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THE MET LOTTERY, by twist65 on Mar 10, 2017 2:02:30 GMT 1, thanks Met and unlucky fellow participants! I hadn't seen Food Inc. but having grown up next door to a pig farm in rural England its a subject I have a little knowledge of, although still an eyeopening documentary.
I normally spend the evenings working, or filling my head with nonsense, so am enjoying this 'night school' as a departure from the norm.. Next vid looks a goodun too..
thanks Met and unlucky fellow participants! I hadn't seen Food Inc. but having grown up next door to a pig farm in rural England its a subject I have a little knowledge of, although still an eyeopening documentary.
I normally spend the evenings working, or filling my head with nonsense, so am enjoying this 'night school' as a departure from the norm.. Next vid looks a goodun too..
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ed
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 697
๐๐ป 666
September 2007
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THE MET LOTTERY, by ed on Mar 10, 2017 9:57:26 GMT 1, thanks Met and unlucky fellow participants! I hadn't seen Food Inc. but having grown up next door to a pig farm in rural England its a subject I have a little knowledge of, although still an eyeopening documentary. I normally spend the evenings working, or filling my head with nonsense, so am enjoying this 'night school' as a departure from the norm.. Next vid looks a goodun too..
I grew up on a farm, my parents still own it and in my dad's lifetime he's gone from taking produce a few miles down the road to competing in an international market.
The thing that surprises me is the amount of fertiliser/pesticides we're allowed to spread. We have never got close to using as much as we could but other farms just use everything they can.
On a side note, we had one pig that used to get taken on walks down the lane and had a fairly chill life, but that was more to keep my grandad away from the rest of the farm!
thanks Met and unlucky fellow participants! I hadn't seen Food Inc. but having grown up next door to a pig farm in rural England its a subject I have a little knowledge of, although still an eyeopening documentary. I normally spend the evenings working, or filling my head with nonsense, so am enjoying this 'night school' as a departure from the norm.. Next vid looks a goodun too.. I grew up on a farm, my parents still own it and in my dad's lifetime he's gone from taking produce a few miles down the road to competing in an international market. The thing that surprises me is the amount of fertiliser/pesticides we're allowed to spread. We have never got close to using as much as we could but other farms just use everything they can. On a side note, we had one pig that used to get taken on walks down the lane and had a fairly chill life, but that was more to keep my grandad away from the rest of the farm! |
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Coach on Mar 10, 2017 10:14:17 GMT 1, PREPARATION AND TACTICAL CONSIDERATIONSAnd let the marathon continue. _____________________________ Do what met said but with two opened tabs. a) Quickly create a post with wrong answers but hard to understand so that next person answering will have doubts about his own answers and may even loose time rewatching the videos or googling you difficult wrong answers b) Post another one with correct answers.
You can only have one unedited answer.
PREPARATION AND TACTICAL CONSIDERATIONSAnd let the marathon continue. _____________________________ Do what met said but with two opened tabs. a) Quickly create a post with wrong answers but hard to understand so that next person answering will have doubts about his own answers and may even loose time rewatching the videos or googling you difficult wrong answers b) Post another one with correct answers. You can only have one unedited answer. |
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,965
๐๐ป 2,902
December 2007
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Cornish Crayon on Mar 10, 2017 10:36:34 GMT 1, On a side note, we had one pig that used to get taken on walks down the lane and had a fairly chill life, but that was more to keep my grandad away from the rest of the farm!
๐ Lonelyfarmers long lost cousin ๐ท
On a side note, we had one pig that used to get taken on walks down the lane and had a fairly chill life, but that was more to keep my grandad away from the rest of the farm! ๐ Lonelyfarmers long lost cousin ๐ท |
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mla
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,104
๐๐ป 1,242
June 2015
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THE MET LOTTERY, by mla on Mar 10, 2017 12:11:46 GMT 1, A shame to see this moved out of the main forum, as there is much more to this than a simple giveaway.
A shame to see this moved out of the main forum, as there is much more to this than a simple giveaway.
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Cornish Crayon
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,965
๐๐ป 2,902
December 2007
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THE MET LOTTERY, by Cornish Crayon on Mar 10, 2017 12:27:13 GMT 1, A shame to see this moved out of the main forum, as there is much more to this than a simple giveaway.
There are rules here, and if you step over them rules, there be trubble, which is very ironic considering the whole reason (I believe) behind mets thread.
A shame to see this moved out of the main forum, as there is much more to this than a simple giveaway. There are rules here, and if you step over them rules, there be trubble, which is very ironic considering the whole reason (I believe) behind mets thread. |
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... although I was concentrating on getting my answers out first 
