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mose
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May 2017
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by mose on Oct 1, 2017 22:25:15 GMT 1, If auction houses can make money of off something, they do.
There is also precedent for selling stuff like this. Most every major auction house has sold Haring subway drawings, none of which are authenticated. The Haring authentication foundation, even before it disbanded in 2012, would not give its stamp of approval to any of them.
So, unauthenticated, rogue works have found a home at auction as long as the commission vs. reputation equation is acceptable.
Personally, even if I liked the work of Invader or Banksy(I dislike the former and am lukewarm on the latter), I wouldn't go near street pieces.
If auction houses can make money of off something, they do.
There is also precedent for selling stuff like this. Most every major auction house has sold Haring subway drawings, none of which are authenticated. The Haring authentication foundation, even before it disbanded in 2012, would not give its stamp of approval to any of them.
So, unauthenticated, rogue works have found a home at auction as long as the commission vs. reputation equation is acceptable.
Personally, even if I liked the work of Invader or Banksy(I dislike the former and am lukewarm on the latter), I wouldn't go near street pieces.
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by maddoghoek100 on Oct 1, 2017 22:26:25 GMT 1, Kind of gross to see a stolen street piece at auction. I wonder if they will disclose that invader will not authenticate. Any buyer who spends money on this instead of an alias is a fool....that said I also worry that if these bring in some cash it will encourage people to go after some of my favorites here in NYC.
Kind of gross to see a stolen street piece at auction. I wonder if they will disclose that invader will not authenticate. Any buyer who spends money on this instead of an alias is a fool....that said I also worry that if these bring in some cash it will encourage people to go after some of my favorites here in NYC.
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gd79
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by gd79 on Oct 1, 2017 23:19:52 GMT 1, Forget the stolen street stuff, just enjoy the Alec Monopoly customised Rolex.
Forget the stolen street stuff, just enjoy the Alec Monopoly customised Rolex.
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by King Robbo Lives on Oct 2, 2017 0:38:01 GMT 1, I'm curious if these were obtained from private property? If anyone is aware of the locations from which they were taken, and as to whether or not they were public/private property may help answer their origin.
I'm curious if these were obtained from private property? If anyone is aware of the locations from which they were taken, and as to whether or not they were public/private property may help answer their origin.
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yojoe007
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by yojoe007 on Oct 2, 2017 1:32:21 GMT 1, Wouldn't touch. The Place de Belleville one has even been made to appear as if it's an alias... very dodgy. This will only encourage wholesale vandalism of street pieces. Very sad!
Wouldn't touch. The Place de Belleville one has even been made to appear as if it's an alias... very dodgy. This will only encourage wholesale vandalism of street pieces. Very sad!
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by Laugh Now 10 on Oct 2, 2017 2:36:16 GMT 1, this auction house has been trying to sell that “long” Invader piece for years....
this auction house has been trying to sell that “long” Invader piece for years....
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by purpleandred on Oct 2, 2017 11:49:19 GMT 1, Wrong. Just wrong.
Wrong. Just wrong.
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Jaylove
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November 2016
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by Jaylove on Oct 2, 2017 12:22:37 GMT 1, Makes me understand how releases are sold out in a second. So much greed.
Makes me understand how releases are sold out in a second. So much greed.
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by King Robbo Lives on Oct 2, 2017 16:01:47 GMT 1, I might have put a bad link up first, but I replaced it and they're still in the digital catalog. I thought they did have something on the IG about it ... poor memory
I might have put a bad link up first, but I replaced it and they're still in the digital catalog. I thought they did have something on the IG about it ... poor memory
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poplux
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June 2017
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by poplux on Oct 2, 2017 18:44:50 GMT 1, The basquiat drawing "the angel" has been sold few month ago at 15k€ ah ah 40-60k now
The basquiat drawing "the angel" has been sold few month ago at 15k€ ah ah 40-60k now
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beenrhymin
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September 2013
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by beenrhymin on Oct 2, 2017 22:14:48 GMT 1, my favorite is it says accompanied by certificate fo some random guy. Just an fyi for all my future sales they are accompanied by a certificate of authenticity by Jon (an integral part of the booming art scene in nyc, he has witnessed some of the biggest deals go down) also he is our maintenance engineer in my building.
my favorite is it says accompanied by certificate fo some random guy. Just an fyi for all my future sales they are accompanied by a certificate of authenticity by Jon (an integral part of the booming art scene in nyc, he has witnessed some of the biggest deals go down) also he is our maintenance engineer in my building.
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jay4077
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May 2017
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by jay4077 on Oct 3, 2017 8:57:45 GMT 1, Admittedly these are fantastic. Who wouldn't like an original street piece from Invader in their home? But once they are peeled of the walls the authenticy is gone. I wouldn't buy on the the secondary market especially when the COA is "current owner says it's legit". Just look at the Banksy Bomb Hugger Girl cardboards, it's flooded with fake versions.
Admittedly these are fantastic. Who wouldn't like an original street piece from Invader in their home? But once they are peeled of the walls the authenticy is gone. I wouldn't buy on the the secondary market especially when the COA is "current owner says it's legit". Just look at the Banksy Bomb Hugger Girl cardboards, it's flooded with fake versions.
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Matt
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by Matt on Oct 3, 2017 15:53:49 GMT 1, If I had that kind of money to spend on art I would make sure I would get something original by the artist with the proper provenance. These auction houses know very well that they have collectors with funds who are counting on them, the auction house, to provide authentic pieces.
Julien's, like others, is simply abusing this trust and knowingly selling stuff that cannot be authenticated and is therefore worthless.
While they're at it, they can start building their own replicas of stolen street pieces and selling them, or why not commission a nice disappeared Monet and sell it !
If I had that kind of money to spend on art I would make sure I would get something original by the artist with the proper provenance. These auction houses know very well that they have collectors with funds who are counting on them, the auction house, to provide authentic pieces. Julien's, like others, is simply abusing this trust and knowingly selling stuff that cannot be authenticated and is therefore worthless. While they're at it, they can start building their own replicas of stolen street pieces and selling them, or why not commission a nice disappeared Monet and sell it !
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fte2011
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June 2017
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by fte2011 on Oct 3, 2017 17:39:24 GMT 1, Disgusting.. Often if not always these pieces are destroyed when removed from the wall and then rebuild, who knows if you're not buying one of multiple copies. Invader will not authenticate these, and has stated more than once that as far as he is concerned these are just a bunch of worthless tiles once they're removed. I'm no expert at auctions like these but I don't see them selling for estimates like this. We've all seen these assholes around here struggling to sell streetpieces for a fraction of these prices. If I had that kind of money to spend on art I would make sure I would get something original by the artist with the proper provenance. Edit: As far as I'm concerned the ORIGINALS of PA_1039 and PA_1082 are still out there on the streets of Paris to be enjoyed and flashed by everybody!
I confirm, I was in Paris this week end and I was able to flash them so very expensive bunch of tiles with no proof of authenticity
Disgusting.. Often if not always these pieces are destroyed when removed from the wall and then rebuild, who knows if you're not buying one of multiple copies. Invader will not authenticate these, and has stated more than once that as far as he is concerned these are just a bunch of worthless tiles once they're removed. I'm no expert at auctions like these but I don't see them selling for estimates like this. We've all seen these assholes around here struggling to sell streetpieces for a fraction of these prices. If I had that kind of money to spend on art I would make sure I would get something original by the artist with the proper provenance. Edit: As far as I'm concerned the ORIGINALS of PA_1039 and PA_1082 are still out there on the streets of Paris to be enjoyed and flashed by everybody! I confirm, I was in Paris this week end and I was able to flash them so very expensive bunch of tiles with no proof of authenticity
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by greenpoint on Oct 3, 2017 21:12:22 GMT 1, The piece above the marble shop on Kent Ave in Williamsburg, Bk was removed recently. It wasn't there yesterday when I rode my bike past. A precedent is being set.
The piece above the marble shop on Kent Ave in Williamsburg, Bk was removed recently. It wasn't there yesterday when I rode my bike past. A precedent is being set.
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jig5aw
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by jig5aw on Oct 4, 2017 13:56:12 GMT 1, Interesting! I know for a fact that that banksy sign is not genuine.. feel bad for anyone who purchases that!
Interesting! I know for a fact that that banksy sign is not genuine.. feel bad for anyone who purchases that!
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sfnyc
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by sfnyc on Oct 4, 2017 16:08:09 GMT 1, Interesting! I know for a fact that that banksy sign is not genuine.. feel bad for anyone who purchases that!
How so? Looks like the same from the Banksy website photo
Interesting! I know for a fact that that banksy sign is not genuine.. feel bad for anyone who purchases that! How so? Looks like the same from the Banksy website photo
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jig5aw
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by jig5aw on Oct 4, 2017 17:00:18 GMT 1, Interesting! I know for a fact that that banksy sign is not genuine.. feel bad for anyone who purchases that! How so? Looks like the same from the Banksy website photo the banksy site photo is photoshopped. If you look at the wall it is on it is the same exact piece of wall as the anti climb rats were on. The image nolonger exists on the banksy website, but the anti climb one does.
Interesting! I know for a fact that that banksy sign is not genuine.. feel bad for anyone who purchases that! How so? Looks like the same from the Banksy website photo the banksy site photo is photoshopped. If you look at the wall it is on it is the same exact piece of wall as the anti climb rats were on. The image nolonger exists on the banksy website, but the anti climb one does.
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jig5aw
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by jig5aw on Oct 4, 2017 17:10:22 GMT 1, Photoshopped from this image by the looks of it. Exact same light on the sign which doesn't match the light elsewhere on the wall..
Photoshopped from this image by the looks of it. Exact same light on the sign which doesn't match the light elsewhere on the wall..
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sfnyc
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by sfnyc on Oct 4, 2017 17:14:49 GMT 1, wow good eye jig5aw
wow good eye jig5aw
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by Happy Shopper on Oct 4, 2017 17:55:16 GMT 1, Photoshopped from this image by the looks of it. Exact same light on the sign which doesn't match the light elsewhere on the wall.. Where did that photo come from? ebay? If Julien's don't know about that, perhaps you should inform them... although I doubt they'd care, frankly!
Photoshopped from this image by the looks of it. Exact same light on the sign which doesn't match the light elsewhere on the wall.. Where did that photo come from? ebay? If Julien's don't know about that, perhaps you should inform them... although I doubt they'd care, frankly!
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sfnyc
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by sfnyc on Oct 4, 2017 18:06:34 GMT 1, If they don't care about the authenticity of the artworks they're selling they'll lose a lot of potential bidders/collectors, so I think they have no other choice but to care!
If they don't care about the authenticity of the artworks they're selling they'll lose a lot of potential bidders/collectors, so I think they have no other choice but to care!
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jig5aw
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by jig5aw on Oct 4, 2017 22:23:19 GMT 1, Photoshopped from this image by the looks of it. Exact same light on the sign which doesn't match the light elsewhere on the wall.. Where did that photo come from? ebay? If Julien's don't know about that, perhaps you should inform them... although I doubt they'd care, frankly! it was listed briefly on eBay a few years back and this was one of the images.
Photoshopped from this image by the looks of it. Exact same light on the sign which doesn't match the light elsewhere on the wall.. Where did that photo come from? ebay? If Julien's don't know about that, perhaps you should inform them... although I doubt they'd care, frankly! it was listed briefly on eBay a few years back and this was one of the images.
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met
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by met on Oct 5, 2017 6:32:17 GMT 1, Interesting! I know for a fact that that banksy sign is not genuine.. feel bad for anyone who purchases that!
How so? Looks like the same from the Banksy website photo the banksy site photo is photoshopped. If you look at the wall it is on it is the same exact piece of wall as the anti climb rats were on. The image nolonger exists on the banksy website, but the anti climb one does.
Photoshopped from this image by the looks of it. Exact same light on the sign which doesn't match the light elsewhere on the wall..
Nice detective work, jig5aw.
For comparison with the light and shadows on the Diverted Traffic sign above, here's the photoshopped fakery from the Julien's Auctions listing. The angle and perspective of the sign on the wall are also slightly off:
And here's the source page used for the deceit, taken from Banksy's website (2006). The main and thumbnail Anti-Climb Paint photos were replaced by the fabricated Diverted Traffic photo:
With the Anti-Climb Paint image, see as well the rough texture of the wall by the top rat's tail. Compare this to the smoothness of that part of the wall in the Diverted Traffic photoshop:
In addition, Diverted Traffic signs are temporary signage. One therefore never sees them drilled into a wall. They're put in the street for just a few days or weeks at a time, usually when roadworks are taking place:
Of separate interest in the auction description is the stated provenance for the fake — Carmichael Gallery of Contemporary Art:
I've previously mentioned Julien's Auctions — in 2014 here, and in 2015 here. When it comes to dodginess, they have precedent.
After all these years, I don't believe they're clueless about provenance or authenticity. Given they'll be aware of Pest Control and the large number of credible counterfeit Banksys on the market, their case seems instead to be one of recklessness and dishonesty. Priority is given to profit, rather than to their fiduciary duty to buyers.
_________
If any Los Angeles-based forum member is planning to attend a viewing day, have a chat with one of the representatives. I'd be interested to hear about the due diligence procedures followed by Julien's Auctions.
With their clients likely to be bidding five-figure sums, what evidence convinced the auction house this particular street sign was painted by Banksy? In the absence of a certificate of authenticity from Pest Control, how do they know the work isn't fake?
Please then report back.
Interesting! I know for a fact that that banksy sign is not genuine.. feel bad for anyone who purchases that! How so? Looks like the same from the Banksy website photo the banksy site photo is photoshopped. If you look at the wall it is on it is the same exact piece of wall as the anti climb rats were on. The image nolonger exists on the banksy website, but the anti climb one does. Photoshopped from this image by the looks of it. Exact same light on the sign which doesn't match the light elsewhere on the wall.. Nice detective work, jig5aw. For comparison with the light and shadows on the Diverted Traffic sign above, here's the photoshopped fakery from the Julien's Auctions listing. The angle and perspective of the sign on the wall are also slightly off: And here's the source page used for the deceit, taken from Ban ksy's website (2006). The main and thumbnail Anti-Climb Paint photos were replaced by the fabricated Diverted Traffic photo: With the Anti-Climb Paint image, see as well the rough texture of the wall by the top rat's tail. Compare this to the smoothness of that part of the wall in the Diverted Traffic photoshop: In addition, Diverted Traffic signs are temporary signage. One therefore never sees them drilled into a wall. They're put in the street for just a few days or weeks at a time, usually when roadworks are taking place: Of separate interest in the auction description is the stated provenance for the fake — Carmichael Gallery of Contemporary Art: I've previously mentioned Julien's Auctions — in 2014 here, and in 2015 here. When it comes to dodginess, they have precedent. After all these years, I don't believe they're clueless about provenance or authenticity. Given they'll be aware of Pest Control and the large number of credible counterfeit Ban ksys on the market, their case seems instead to be one of recklessness and dishonesty. Priority is given to profit, rather than to their fiduciary duty to buyers. _________ If any Los Angeles-based forum member is planning to attend a viewing day, have a chat with one of the representatives. I'd be interested to hear about the due diligence procedures followed by Julien's Auctions. With their clients likely to be bidding five-figure sums, what evidence convinced the auction house this particular street sign was painted by Ban ksy? In the absence of a certificate of authenticity from Pest Control, how do they know the work isn't fake? Please then report back.
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jig5aw
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November 2013
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by jig5aw on Oct 5, 2017 12:24:05 GMT 1, Another point to note is that the sign size does not match the size of tha wall it has been photoshopped onto. That sign is huge if you look at the dimensions listed on the auction site and this just doesn't match the wall size! It's been shrunk to fit that bit of wall!
Another point to note is that the sign size does not match the size of tha wall it has been photoshopped onto. That sign is huge if you look at the dimensions listed on the auction site and this just doesn't match the wall size! It's been shrunk to fit that bit of wall!
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gd79
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by gd79 on Oct 5, 2017 13:02:44 GMT 1, This is a fantastic thread. Kudos. I'm sure there are vast numbers of similar lots that would fall flat under the same scrutiny.
One issue with street pieces is that the sale becomes the provenance. Something sold through a good house creates its own validity...
This is a fantastic thread. Kudos. I'm sure there are vast numbers of similar lots that would fall flat under the same scrutiny.
One issue with street pieces is that the sale becomes the provenance. Something sold through a good house creates its own validity...
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met
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by met on Oct 6, 2017 3:07:15 GMT 1, Another point to note is that the sign size does not match the size of tha wall it has been photoshopped onto. That sign is huge if you look at the dimensions listed on the auction site and this just doesn't match the wall size! It's been shrunk to fit that bit of wall! Well spotted.
Moreover, signs of that size and weight do not get screwed into plaster walls.
This is further evidenced by the number and position of mounting holes on the sign. There are two of them, along the vertical middle. Any large, heavy sign meant to be nailed or screwed into a wall would have a minimum of four holes — one at each corner.
Before it was tampered with to create this so-called Drill Rat counterfeit Banksy, the Diverted Traffic sign would have been attached with bolts and nuts to a stanchion frame on the street.
_________
Shame on Carmichael Gallery if it actually does have a connection with this fake.
Another point to note is that the sign size does not match the size of tha wall it has been photoshopped onto. That sign is huge if you look at the dimensions listed on the auction site and this just doesn't match the wall size! It's been shrunk to fit that bit of wall! Well spotted. Moreover, signs of that size and weight do not get screwed into plaster walls. This is further evidenced by the number and position of mounting holes on the sign. There are two of them, along the vertical middle. Any large, heavy sign meant to be nailed or screwed into a wall would have a minimum of four holes — one at each corner. Before it was tampered with to create this so-called Drill Rat counterfeit Ban ksy, the Diverted Traffic sign would have been attached with bolts and nuts to a stanchion frame on the street. _________ Shame on Carmichael Gallery if it actually does have a connection with this fake.
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chevyav53
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August 2017
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by chevyav53 on Oct 6, 2017 6:15:21 GMT 1, Let’s look outside the phone booth for a minute..... Banksy could have easily taken the unscrewed sign back to his shop, do it up, head out and install it with two screws to save time. That’s what I would have done to maximize my time out that night.....
Or.... created his own replica sign as he did with the tener, throw a rat & signature on it and boom done
You got me on the photoshop though, definitely the same light, good eye jig5aw
Let’s look outside the phone booth for a minute..... Banksy could have easily taken the unscrewed sign back to his shop, do it up, head out and install it with two screws to save time. That’s what I would have done to maximize my time out that night..... Or.... created his own replica sign as he did with the tener, throw a rat & signature on it and boom done You got me on the photoshop though, definitely the same light, good eye jig5aw
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chainsaw
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June 2017
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Julien's to Auction Street Invaders, Banksy, by chainsaw on Oct 10, 2017 18:22:45 GMT 1, has anyone reported it as stolen?
has anyone reported it as stolen?
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