|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 13:45:26 GMT 1, How many times do people say 'never buy a banksy without a coa', 'get PC cert first'. The old it's not authentic until proven so. If you go over a friend's house and they have a banksy on the wall. Do you ask if they have a PC cert. If they say no do you judge them? Do you assume it's real or fake? Should you view it questionably or as not a banksy cause they don't have one? That's the problem with PC and Banksys control over their market. More fool me for getting involved, but... what you've done here is outlined a situation (well, in fact you've barely done that, just asked loads of purely rhetorical questions as usual) and then deemed it a problem. But you haven't said why you think it's a problem. So... enlighten us. Why in your opinion is the issuing of PC COA's 'a problem'? People are quite at liberty to buy Banksy prints with or without COAs. (Remember the same risk of fakery exists when buying any art). Why is it a problem that PC offer an extra layer of reassurance for those that want it? No one (except possibly you) is saying that a Banksy isn't a Banksy unless it has a COA. It isn't a question of it not being authentic until proven so – it's a question of taking reasonable steps to eliminate doubt, as always when it comes to the authentication of art. You talk about this 'problem' as though it were unique to the Bansky world. How many people do you think have fake Warhols hanging on their walls? And what would Warhol collectors give for a reasonably-priced, reasonably reliable method of helping to determine authenticity? You ask what the motivation is. Though as you well know, none of us here can answer that definitively. (You don't, by the way, get to score a point, or 'win', or whatever bizarre thing it is that happens in your head simply because you've stumbled on a question to which no one knows or is willing to share the answer.) We can only speculate. So take your pick from the following speculations (or feel free to add some of your own. Bearing in mind that we aren't likely to agree, so in the absence of a PC-authenticated answer it's kind of a pointless exercise): – Because Banksy has a kind heart – Because Banksy recognizes that by encouraging replication of his art in the early days when it wasn't worth anything he has contributed to a situation where people are getting ripped off by cynical exploiters, and has decided to do what he can to address this because he bears a significant degree of responsibility for it – Because Banksy's entourage got sick of fielding authenticity enquiries on an ad hoc basis and insisted he put some kind of formal process in place – Because so many people were faking his work that there was a real risk of the focus being not on the art itself but on all the fraudulence going on around it. That presented a genuine threat to his credibility, and therefore on his ability to carry out his projects, and was therefore something that he had to try and address. – Because issuing COAs is a massive earner, and Banksy wants nothing more than to get rich by running a fake service ostensibly designed to guarantee the authenticity of his art but with the real intention of ripping off his many admirers for every last penny he can extract from them. – Because Banksy is a masochist who figured that offering an authentication service would give people a big stick to beat him with. I find it ironic that you of all people should spend so much time concerning yourself with the subject. In the sense that authenticity is not something that seems to trouble you too much on a personal level.
Finally some discussion. Not sure the insults were warranted though. But if that's how you roll okay!
I'll respond more in full in a little because I've been thinking about the question for some time.
I do never understand saying it's a 'useless' discussion. You could say 99% of art is a useless expression if you really wanted to. Yet here we all are. Discussion is important and not sure why so many disparage it on here just cause they may not like the topic or point of view. Especially when it comes to art as it's very theoretical by nature Asoach said just ignore it if you don't want to participate then 😜
How many times do people say 'never buy a banksy without a coa', 'get PC cert first'. The old it's not authentic until proven so. If you go over a friend's house and they have a banksy on the wall. Do you ask if they have a PC cert. If they say no do you judge them? Do you assume it's real or fake? Should you view it questionably or as not a banksy cause they don't have one? That's the problem with PC and Banksys control over their market. More fool me for getting involved, but... what you've done here is outlined a situation (well, in fact you've barely done that, just asked loads of purely rhetorical questions as usual) and then deemed it a problem. But you haven't said why you think it's a problem. So... enlighten us. Why in your opinion is the issuing of PC COA's 'a problem'? People are quite at liberty to buy Banksy prints with or without COAs. (Remember the same risk of fakery exists when buying any art). Why is it a problem that PC offer an extra layer of reassurance for those that want it? No one (except possibly you) is saying that a Banksy isn't a Banksy unless it has a COA. It isn't a question of it not being authentic until proven so – it's a question of taking reasonable steps to eliminate doubt, as always when it comes to the authentication of art. You talk about this 'problem' as though it were unique to the Bansky world. How many people do you think have fake Warhols hanging on their walls? And what would Warhol collectors give for a reasonably-priced, reasonably reliable method of helping to determine authenticity? You ask what the motivation is. Though as you well know, none of us here can answer that definitively. (You don't, by the way, get to score a point, or 'win', or whatever bizarre thing it is that happens in your head simply because you've stumbled on a question to which no one knows or is willing to share the answer.) We can only speculate. So take your pick from the following speculations (or feel free to add some of your own. Bearing in mind that we aren't likely to agree, so in the absence of a PC-authenticated answer it's kind of a pointless exercise): – Because Banksy has a kind heart – Because Banksy recognizes that by encouraging replication of his art in the early days when it wasn't worth anything he has contributed to a situation where people are getting ripped off by cynical exploiters, and has decided to do what he can to address this because he bears a significant degree of responsibility for it – Because Banksy's entourage got sick of fielding authenticity enquiries on an ad hoc basis and insisted he put some kind of formal process in place – Because so many people were faking his work that there was a real risk of the focus being not on the art itself but on all the fraudulence going on around it. That presented a genuine threat to his credibility, and therefore on his ability to carry out his projects, and was therefore something that he had to try and address. – Because issuing COAs is a massive earner, and Banksy wants nothing more than to get rich by running a fake service ostensibly designed to guarantee the authenticity of his art but with the real intention of ripping off his many admirers for every last penny he can extract from them. – Because Banksy is a masochist who figured that offering an authentication service would give people a big stick to beat him with. I find it ironic that you of all people should spend so much time concerning yourself with the subject. In the sense that authenticity is not something that seems to trouble you too much on a personal level. Finally some discussion. Not sure the insults were warranted though. But if that's how you roll okay! I'll respond more in full in a little because I've been thinking about the question for some time. I do never understand saying it's a 'useless' discussion. You could say 99% of art is a useless expression if you really wanted to. Yet here we all are. Discussion is important and not sure why so many disparage it on here just cause they may not like the topic or point of view. Especially when it comes to art as it's very theoretical by nature Asoach said just ignore it if you don't want to participate then 😜 |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 15:40:12 GMT 1, Every time a Banksy print is posted on this forum the first question is 'Is there a PC certificate'. If there is not its is always met with everything from 'to get max money get PC', 'its stupid to try and sell without PC', 'i will never buy without a PC, or *insert smart its a fake comment*.
The whole PC cert. brings an interesting concept to the art and how its traded or collected. It's a pretty good micro example of a macro issue with the art world. Its a commentary on attribution and authenticity which is paramount in the art world. If Salvator Mundi is by Leonardo its worth half a billion, if its by Pietro who lived down the street its maybe worth a couple hundred thousand.... Shoot we saw this same concept tackled by Banksy in BOTI with his stall... If its a knock off its worth 60 bucks, but if its by banksy its worth 150K.
If Banksy makes a print its clearly an authenticate work of art. Now if said print has a PC cert. it may sell for 20K on the market. If it does not have a PC cert. it may sell for 15K (just giving a random example). Now no one is going to disagree that in both cases the print is 100% authentic and a true Banksy. Sure, knowledgeable collectors and buyers may have no problem buying the print with no PC if they deem provenance and authenticity fine. BUT, for the majority of individuals and those that pronounce a hard fast rule of 'no PC no sale' that is a silly sentiment. The sentiment is accepting the line that is being fed to you.
Ironically, in current society this type of acceptance is on high blast. How polarizing is the 'fake news' concept, the concept of media controlling narrative, the idea you can't believe what a politician says or tweets, you can't trust the word of your favorite athlete saying they will stay at your home town team.
Yet the accepted position of almost all is a blanket statement of 'I will never buy a Banksy print without a PC cert' because its probably not real'.
Now I get it. A PC certificate gives comfort and knowledge. But the blanket statement of 'never buy without a PC cert.' is a dangerous motto to accept as fact. Its also a lazy one.
Now the motivation for PC certificates is pretty clear to me. Its in every Banksy sale thread that doesn't have a PC cert. Its usually the first statement and statement repeated by multiple users in each thread. PC cert adds money to the print. The print maybe real, but it doesn't matter. Same exact piece of art but the certificate adds value. Same exact piece of art, but a different price. No one finds that a bizarre concept?
I don't think it can be argued Banksy created PC out of the goodness of his heart for multiple reasons, but thats probably a separate discussion. Its probably not to raise money, although that is something I'd like to understand more. I also still don't really get why the cert. can't be given and then it just travels with the print (like every other piece of art). Why the need to 'refresh it' with each transaction.
Whether anyone wants to admit it or acknowledge it Banksy is a brand, its a business, its a market - just like every other mass artist has become. Sure the art at times can transcend that, can create discussion and shed light on important issues. The art can be great.
So back to the question at hand. Whats the motivation? Its clear... it bring value to the art. That is a fact that can't be disputed. PC boosts Banksy's market. Banksy controls its market and you can't deny, a good market is good for the brand.
Its actually kind of genius! :-)
Every time a Banksy print is posted on this forum the first question is 'Is there a PC certificate'. If there is not its is always met with everything from 'to get max money get PC', 'its stupid to try and sell without PC', 'i will never buy without a PC, or *insert smart its a fake comment*.
The whole PC cert. brings an interesting concept to the art and how its traded or collected. It's a pretty good micro example of a macro issue with the art world. Its a commentary on attribution and authenticity which is paramount in the art world. If Salvator Mundi is by Leonardo its worth half a billion, if its by Pietro who lived down the street its maybe worth a couple hundred thousand.... Shoot we saw this same concept tackled by Banksy in BOTI with his stall... If its a knock off its worth 60 bucks, but if its by banksy its worth 150K.
If Banksy makes a print its clearly an authenticate work of art. Now if said print has a PC cert. it may sell for 20K on the market. If it does not have a PC cert. it may sell for 15K (just giving a random example). Now no one is going to disagree that in both cases the print is 100% authentic and a true Banksy. Sure, knowledgeable collectors and buyers may have no problem buying the print with no PC if they deem provenance and authenticity fine. BUT, for the majority of individuals and those that pronounce a hard fast rule of 'no PC no sale' that is a silly sentiment. The sentiment is accepting the line that is being fed to you.
Ironically, in current society this type of acceptance is on high blast. How polarizing is the 'fake news' concept, the concept of media controlling narrative, the idea you can't believe what a politician says or tweets, you can't trust the word of your favorite athlete saying they will stay at your home town team.
Yet the accepted position of almost all is a blanket statement of 'I will never buy a Banksy print without a PC cert' because its probably not real'.
Now I get it. A PC certificate gives comfort and knowledge. But the blanket statement of 'never buy without a PC cert.' is a dangerous motto to accept as fact. Its also a lazy one.
Now the motivation for PC certificates is pretty clear to me. Its in every Banksy sale thread that doesn't have a PC cert. Its usually the first statement and statement repeated by multiple users in each thread. PC cert adds money to the print. The print maybe real, but it doesn't matter. Same exact piece of art but the certificate adds value. Same exact piece of art, but a different price. No one finds that a bizarre concept?
I don't think it can be argued Banksy created PC out of the goodness of his heart for multiple reasons, but thats probably a separate discussion. Its probably not to raise money, although that is something I'd like to understand more. I also still don't really get why the cert. can't be given and then it just travels with the print (like every other piece of art). Why the need to 'refresh it' with each transaction.
Whether anyone wants to admit it or acknowledge it Banksy is a brand, its a business, its a market - just like every other mass artist has become. Sure the art at times can transcend that, can create discussion and shed light on important issues. The art can be great.
So back to the question at hand. Whats the motivation? Its clear... it bring value to the art. That is a fact that can't be disputed. PC boosts Banksy's market. Banksy controls its market and you can't deny, a good market is good for the brand.
Its actually kind of genius! :-)
|
|
k2
New Member
🗨️ 528
👍🏻 972
November 2016
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by k2 on Feb 14, 2019 16:03:01 GMT 1, Now the motivation for PC certificates is pretty clear to me. Its in every Banksy sale thread that doesn't have a PC cert. Its usually the first statement and statement repeated by multiple users in each thread. PC cert adds money to the print. The print maybe real, but it doesn't matter. Same exact piece of art but the certificate adds value. Same exact piece of art, but a different price. No one finds that a bizarre concept?
If there's no certificate/COA or whatever, there's an increased chance that it's not legitimate, and therefore it's more of a gamble as a purchase. With a verifiable COA, the risk for the purchaser reduces to almost zero.
Imagine you were in the market to buy a diamond. I tell you that I have one for sale, but I won't allow you to look at it closely to verify that it is indeed a diamond until the transaction is complete. You might be prepared to make me a small offer on the basis that it *might* be OK, but you certainly would not be prepared to make an offer at the typical market rate because of the risk involved. Compare that to another seller selling an identical diamond, but who allows you to have the diamond inspected by a jeweller to validate its quality - you'd be far more likely to pay the standard rate for that diamond once your risk has been reduced. Same diamond, but a different price. Do you also find that a bizarre concept?
So of course the PC certificate adds money to the print because it significantly reduces the risk of the print being illegitimate, therefore reducing the risk to the purchaser, increasing the price they are willing to pay for it.
And for the record, most of the advice I see on this forum with regard to PC certificates is when a seller attempts to sell a print without the certification. The advice tends to be that they should apply for the certificate before attempting to sell in order to achieve the maximum value, for exactly the reasons outlined above.
Now the motivation for PC certificates is pretty clear to me. Its in every Banksy sale thread that doesn't have a PC cert. Its usually the first statement and statement repeated by multiple users in each thread. PC cert adds money to the print. The print maybe real, but it doesn't matter. Same exact piece of art but the certificate adds value. Same exact piece of art, but a different price. No one finds that a bizarre concept? I think your interpretation is badly flawed. If there's no certificate/COA or whatever, there's an increased chance that it's not legitimate, and therefore it's more of a gamble as a purchase. With a verifiable COA, the risk for the purchaser reduces to almost zero. Imagine you were in the market to buy a diamond. I tell you that I have one for sale, but I won't allow you to look at it closely to verify that it is indeed a diamond until the transaction is complete. You might be prepared to make me a small offer on the basis that it *might* be OK, but you certainly would not be prepared to make an offer at the typical market rate because of the risk involved. Compare that to another seller selling an identical diamond, but who allows you to have the diamond inspected by a jeweller to validate its quality - you'd be far more likely to pay the standard rate for that diamond once your risk has been reduced. Same diamond, but a different price. Do you also find that a bizarre concept? So of course the PC certificate adds money to the print because it significantly reduces the risk of the print being illegitimate, therefore reducing the risk to the purchaser, increasing the price they are willing to pay for it. And for the record, most of the advice I see on this forum with regard to PC certificates is when a seller attempts to sell a print without the certification. The advice tends to be that they should apply for the certificate before attempting to sell in order to achieve the maximum value, for exactly the reasons outlined above. |
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 16:27:12 GMT 1, Murrke,
If a certificate does exist it travels with the print, there is no need for a new certificate to be issued each time a print changes hand, not sure where you got tgat from or whether ive read your post wrongly.
Each print i have purchased came with a cert usually dated a few years prior to my purchase.
Murrke,
If a certificate does exist it travels with the print, there is no need for a new certificate to be issued each time a print changes hand, not sure where you got tgat from or whether ive read your post wrongly.
Each print i have purchased came with a cert usually dated a few years prior to my purchase.
|
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 16:38:18 GMT 1, Now the motivation for PC certificates is pretty clear to me. Its in every Banksy sale thread that doesn't have a PC cert. Its usually the first statement and statement repeated by multiple users in each thread. PC cert adds money to the print. The print maybe real, but it doesn't matter. Same exact piece of art but the certificate adds value. Same exact piece of art, but a different price. No one finds that a bizarre concept? I think your interpretation is badly flawed. If there's no certificate/COA or whatever, there's an increased chance that it's not legitimate, and therefore it's more of a gamble as a purchase. With a verifiable COA, the risk for the purchaser reduces to almost zero. Imagine you were in the market to buy a diamond. I tell you that I have one for sale, but I won't allow you to look at it closely to verify that it is indeed a diamond until the transaction is complete. You might be prepared to make me a small offer on the basis that it *might* be OK, but you certainly would not be prepared to make an offer at the typical market rate because of the risk involved. Compare that to another seller selling an identical diamond, but who allows you to have the diamond inspected by a jeweller to validate its quality - you'd be far more likely to pay the standard rate for that diamond once your risk has been reduced. Same diamond, but a different price. Do you also find that a bizarre concept? So of course the PC certificate adds money to the print because it significantly reduces the risk of the print being illegitimate, therefore reducing the risk to the purchaser, increasing the price they are willing to pay for it. And for the record, most of the advice I see on this forum with regard to PC certificates is when a seller attempts to sell a print without the certification. The advice tends to be that they should apply for the certificate before attempting to sell in order to achieve the maximum value, for exactly the reasons outlined above.
I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it.
And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following.
Now the motivation for PC certificates is pretty clear to me. Its in every Banksy sale thread that doesn't have a PC cert. Its usually the first statement and statement repeated by multiple users in each thread. PC cert adds money to the print. The print maybe real, but it doesn't matter. Same exact piece of art but the certificate adds value. Same exact piece of art, but a different price. No one finds that a bizarre concept? I think your interpretation is badly flawed. If there's no certificate/COA or whatever, there's an increased chance that it's not legitimate, and therefore it's more of a gamble as a purchase. With a verifiable COA, the risk for the purchaser reduces to almost zero. Imagine you were in the market to buy a diamond. I tell you that I have one for sale, but I won't allow you to look at it closely to verify that it is indeed a diamond until the transaction is complete. You might be prepared to make me a small offer on the basis that it *might* be OK, but you certainly would not be prepared to make an offer at the typical market rate because of the risk involved. Compare that to another seller selling an identical diamond, but who allows you to have the diamond inspected by a jeweller to validate its quality - you'd be far more likely to pay the standard rate for that diamond once your risk has been reduced. Same diamond, but a different price. Do you also find that a bizarre concept? So of course the PC certificate adds money to the print because it significantly reduces the risk of the print being illegitimate, therefore reducing the risk to the purchaser, increasing the price they are willing to pay for it. And for the record, most of the advice I see on this forum with regard to PC certificates is when a seller attempts to sell a print without the certification. The advice tends to be that they should apply for the certificate before attempting to sell in order to achieve the maximum value, for exactly the reasons outlined above. I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following. |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 16:39:26 GMT 1, Murrke, If a certificate does exist it travels with the print, there is no need for a new certificate to be issued each time a print changes hand, not sure where you got tgat from or whether ive read your post wrongly. Each print i have purchased came with a cert usually dated a few years prior to my purchase.
I appreciate this clarification and I'm shocked no one has actually decided to share this. But do you pay to transfer the title so to say? Thought someone said 30 pounds or something?
Murrke, If a certificate does exist it travels with the print, there is no need for a new certificate to be issued each time a print changes hand, not sure where you got tgat from or whether ive read your post wrongly. Each print i have purchased came with a cert usually dated a few years prior to my purchase. I appreciate this clarification and I'm shocked no one has actually decided to share this. But do you pay to transfer the title so to say? Thought someone said 30 pounds or something? |
|
|
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 16:51:58 GMT 1, Murrke, If a certificate does exist it travels with the print, there is no need for a new certificate to be issued each time a print changes hand, not sure where you got tgat from or whether ive read your post wrongly. Each print i have purchased came with a cert usually dated a few years prior to my purchase. I appreciate this clarification and I'm shocked no one has actually decided to share this. But do you pay to transfer the title so to say? Thought someone said 30 pounds or something?
dont think anyone said that you needed a new cert each time a print changed hands. Anyone who bought a print that had a COA (which as you have pointed out will likely be most people) will know there was no cost to be incurred for a new COA as its not required. Change of ownership used to be free but i believe there is a cost now, £24 or summit.
I have had replacement COA’s issued with minor wording changes sent to me free of charge.
Murrke, If a certificate does exist it travels with the print, there is no need for a new certificate to be issued each time a print changes hand, not sure where you got tgat from or whether ive read your post wrongly. Each print i have purchased came with a cert usually dated a few years prior to my purchase. I appreciate this clarification and I'm shocked no one has actually decided to share this. But do you pay to transfer the title so to say? Thought someone said 30 pounds or something? dont think anyone said that you needed a new cert each time a print changed hands. Anyone who bought a print that had a COA (which as you have pointed out will likely be most people) will know there was no cost to be incurred for a new COA as its not required. Change of ownership used to be free but i believe there is a cost now, £24 or summit. I have had replacement COA’s issued with minor wording changes sent to me free of charge. |
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 16:56:10 GMT 1, I think your interpretation is badly flawed. If there's no certificate/COA or whatever, there's an increased chance that it's not legitimate, and therefore it's more of a gamble as a purchase. With a verifiable COA, the risk for the purchaser reduces to almost zero. Imagine you were in the market to buy a diamond. I tell you that I have one for sale, but I won't allow you to look at it closely to verify that it is indeed a diamond until the transaction is complete. You might be prepared to make me a small offer on the basis that it *might* be OK, but you certainly would not be prepared to make an offer at the typical market rate because of the risk involved. Compare that to another seller selling an identical diamond, but who allows you to have the diamond inspected by a jeweller to validate its quality - you'd be far more likely to pay the standard rate for that diamond once your risk has been reduced. Same diamond, but a different price. Do you also find that a bizarre concept? So of course the PC certificate adds money to the print because it significantly reduces the risk of the print being illegitimate, therefore reducing the risk to the purchaser, increasing the price they are willing to pay for it. And for the record, most of the advice I see on this forum with regard to PC certificates is when a seller attempts to sell a print without the certification. The advice tends to be that they should apply for the certificate before attempting to sell in order to achieve the maximum value, for exactly the reasons outlined above. I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following.
I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value.
I think your interpretation is badly flawed. If there's no certificate/COA or whatever, there's an increased chance that it's not legitimate, and therefore it's more of a gamble as a purchase. With a verifiable COA, the risk for the purchaser reduces to almost zero. Imagine you were in the market to buy a diamond. I tell you that I have one for sale, but I won't allow you to look at it closely to verify that it is indeed a diamond until the transaction is complete. You might be prepared to make me a small offer on the basis that it *might* be OK, but you certainly would not be prepared to make an offer at the typical market rate because of the risk involved. Compare that to another seller selling an identical diamond, but who allows you to have the diamond inspected by a jeweller to validate its quality - you'd be far more likely to pay the standard rate for that diamond once your risk has been reduced. Same diamond, but a different price. Do you also find that a bizarre concept? So of course the PC certificate adds money to the print because it significantly reduces the risk of the print being illegitimate, therefore reducing the risk to the purchaser, increasing the price they are willing to pay for it. And for the record, most of the advice I see on this forum with regard to PC certificates is when a seller attempts to sell a print without the certification. The advice tends to be that they should apply for the certificate before attempting to sell in order to achieve the maximum value, for exactly the reasons outlined above. I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following. I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. |
|
k2
New Member
🗨️ 528
👍🏻 972
November 2016
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by k2 on Feb 14, 2019 16:56:17 GMT 1, I think your interpretation is badly flawed. If there's no certificate/COA or whatever, there's an increased chance that it's not legitimate, and therefore it's more of a gamble as a purchase. With a verifiable COA, the risk for the purchaser reduces to almost zero. Imagine you were in the market to buy a diamond. I tell you that I have one for sale, but I won't allow you to look at it closely to verify that it is indeed a diamond until the transaction is complete. You might be prepared to make me a small offer on the basis that it *might* be OK, but you certainly would not be prepared to make an offer at the typical market rate because of the risk involved. Compare that to another seller selling an identical diamond, but who allows you to have the diamond inspected by a jeweller to validate its quality - you'd be far more likely to pay the standard rate for that diamond once your risk has been reduced. Same diamond, but a different price. Do you also find that a bizarre concept? So of course the PC certificate adds money to the print because it significantly reduces the risk of the print being illegitimate, therefore reducing the risk to the purchaser, increasing the price they are willing to pay for it. And for the record, most of the advice I see on this forum with regard to PC certificates is when a seller attempts to sell a print without the certification. The advice tends to be that they should apply for the certificate before attempting to sell in order to achieve the maximum value, for exactly the reasons outlined above. I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following.
Your point was "Same exact piece of art, but a different price. No one finds that a bizarre concept?"
My reply is that this is a very simple concept and not bizarre at all.
A PC cert obviously increases the amount that a potential buyer is willing to pay for the print, because the risk that it may not be genuine has been dramatically reduced.
If you're saying that you're more than happy to buy readily-faked items for full market value without any proof that they're genuine, please DM me.
I think your interpretation is badly flawed. If there's no certificate/COA or whatever, there's an increased chance that it's not legitimate, and therefore it's more of a gamble as a purchase. With a verifiable COA, the risk for the purchaser reduces to almost zero. Imagine you were in the market to buy a diamond. I tell you that I have one for sale, but I won't allow you to look at it closely to verify that it is indeed a diamond until the transaction is complete. You might be prepared to make me a small offer on the basis that it *might* be OK, but you certainly would not be prepared to make an offer at the typical market rate because of the risk involved. Compare that to another seller selling an identical diamond, but who allows you to have the diamond inspected by a jeweller to validate its quality - you'd be far more likely to pay the standard rate for that diamond once your risk has been reduced. Same diamond, but a different price. Do you also find that a bizarre concept? So of course the PC certificate adds money to the print because it significantly reduces the risk of the print being illegitimate, therefore reducing the risk to the purchaser, increasing the price they are willing to pay for it. And for the record, most of the advice I see on this forum with regard to PC certificates is when a seller attempts to sell a print without the certification. The advice tends to be that they should apply for the certificate before attempting to sell in order to achieve the maximum value, for exactly the reasons outlined above. I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following. I assume you're being deliberately obtuse at this point. Your point was "Same exact piece of art, but a different price. No one finds that a bizarre concept?" My reply is that this is a very simple concept and not bizarre at all. A PC cert obviously increases the amount that a potential buyer is willing to pay for the print, because the risk that it may not be genuine has been dramatically reduced. If you're saying that you're more than happy to buy readily-faked items for full market value without any proof that they're genuine, please DM me. |
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 18:08:42 GMT 1, I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following. I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value.
we have a winner !!!!!!
(maybe)
I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following. I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. we have a winner !!!!!! (maybe) |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 19:39:23 GMT 1, I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following. I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value.
So PC cert. increase the market. That was my exact point above.
I'm not saying anyone should buy a banksy print without looking at it. So not sure where you got that from. Just like no one is buying a diamond without looking at it. And you seen to agree with me that a PC cert. Adds value which is the whole point of my post so I'm not following. I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. So PC cert. increase the market. That was my exact point above. |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Lroy on Feb 14, 2019 19:48:44 GMT 1, I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. we have a winner !!!!!! (maybe)
What a thread ! Murke to the joysticks : 🛏 😴 💤
I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. we have a winner !!!!!! (maybe) What a thread ! Murke to the joysticks : 🛏 😴 💤 |
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 20:32:34 GMT 1, I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. So PC cert. increase the market. That was my exact point above.
No, not having the PC reduces the value below market value
It really is not that difficult
Though, in truth it is... isn't it
Its a real head f**k huh
I get it, I struggle sometimes too
It will be ok
(Maybe)
I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. So PC cert. increase the market. That was my exact point above. No, not having the PC reduces the value below market value It really is not that difficult Though, in truth it is... isn't it Its a real head f**k huh I get it, I struggle sometimes too It will be ok (Maybe) |
|
Deleted
🗨️ 0
👍🏻
January 1970
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 20:36:06 GMT 1, I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. So PC cert. increase the market. That was my exact point above.
away and sh!te
I would be inclined to say that a print with a COA will sell for market value, one without will sell below market value. This is different from saying a COA adds value. So PC cert. increase the market. That was my exact point above. away and sh!te |
|
|
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 20:52:45 GMT 1, So PC cert. increase the market. That was my exact point above. No, not having the PC reduces the value below market value It really is not that difficult Though, in truth it is... isn't it Its a real head f**k huh I get it, I struggle sometimes too It will be ok (Maybe)
Can you explain why it's that way and not the other?
Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after.
So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC?
It seems the market would be less without PC certificates.
So PC cert. increase the market. That was my exact point above. No, not having the PC reduces the value below market value It really is not that difficult Though, in truth it is... isn't it Its a real head f**k huh I get it, I struggle sometimes too It will be ok (Maybe) Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates. |
|
coller
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,384
👍🏻 2,371
April 2015
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by coller on Feb 14, 2019 21:18:34 GMT 1, No, not having the PC reduces the value below market value It really is not that difficult Though, in truth it is... isn't it Its a real head f**k huh I get it, I struggle sometimes too It will be ok (Maybe) Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates.
say you are buying a Banksy print with a market value of 20k USD.
without the COA, the buyer will likely only spend 18k USD to accommodate for the risk of the print potentially being fake.
with a COA, that risk is absolved, so the buyer will be more inclined to pay the full market price.
the COA eliminates risk, it does not increase value.
No, not having the PC reduces the value below market value It really is not that difficult Though, in truth it is... isn't it Its a real head f**k huh I get it, I struggle sometimes too It will be ok (Maybe) Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates. let me take a shot at this. say you are buying a Banksy print with a market value of 20k USD. without the COA, the buyer will likely only spend 18k USD to accommodate for the risk of the print potentially being fake.with a COA, that risk is absolved, so the buyer will be more inclined to pay the full market price. the COA eliminates risk, it does not increase value. |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by wakeskater on Feb 14, 2019 21:31:45 GMT 1, Soooooo, have any “2nd owners” applied directly to PC for the COA and heard back yet?
Soooooo, have any “2nd owners” applied directly to PC for the COA and heard back yet?
|
|
🙈 🙉 🙊
New Member
🗨️ 122
👍🏻 110
February 2018
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by 🙈 🙉 🙊 on Feb 14, 2019 21:41:50 GMT 1, No, not having the PC reduces the value below market value It really is not that difficult Though, in truth it is... isn't it Its a real head f**k huh I get it, I struggle sometimes too It will be ok (Maybe) Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates.
Hey, Rouen Cathedral I have an unsigned barcode I will sell you. Mint condition, stored flat. I bought it from my friend, who bought it from POW back in he day. No COA, but I trust them. I really need to sell, so how about £3000. Bank transfer only.
No, not having the PC reduces the value below market value It really is not that difficult Though, in truth it is... isn't it Its a real head f**k huh I get it, I struggle sometimes too It will be ok (Maybe) Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates. Hey, Rouen Cathedral I have an unsigned barcode I will sell you. Mint condition, stored flat. I bought it from my friend, who bought it from POW back in he day. No COA, but I trust them. I really need to sell, so how about £3000. Bank transfer only. |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 21:48:40 GMT 1, Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates. let me take a shot at this. say you are buying a Banksy print with a market value of 20k USD. without the COA, the buyer will likely only spend 18k USD to accommodate for the risk of the print potentially being fake.with a COA, that risk is absolved, so the buyer will be more inclined to pay the full market price. the COA eliminates risk, it does not increase value.
That's fine logic.
But it's not acknowledging how the introduction of the pest control cert. Helped create the market.
What would the market be if PC didn't exist? 18k for that print? Or would it be like 10k?
Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates. let me take a shot at this. say you are buying a Banksy print with a market value of 20k USD. without the COA, the buyer will likely only spend 18k USD to accommodate for the risk of the print potentially being fake.with a COA, that risk is absolved, so the buyer will be more inclined to pay the full market price. the COA eliminates risk, it does not increase value. That's fine logic. But it's not acknowledging how the introduction of the pest control cert. Helped create the market. What would the market be if PC didn't exist? 18k for that print? Or would it be like 10k? |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 21:49:26 GMT 1, Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates. Hey, Rouen Cathedral I have an unsigned barcode I will sell you. Mint condition, stored flat. I bought it from my friend, who bought it from POW back in he day. No COA, but I trust them. I really need to sell, so how about £3000. Bank transfer only.
Interesting. Can you provide me with detailed photos, original receipts? Thanks
Can you explain why it's that way and not the other? Cause you know what's the same. The banksy print is still a banksy print. It was before the COA and it is after. So back to the other question. Why did Banksy create PC? It seems the market would be less without PC certificates. Hey, Rouen Cathedral I have an unsigned barcode I will sell you. Mint condition, stored flat. I bought it from my friend, who bought it from POW back in he day. No COA, but I trust them. I really need to sell, so how about £3000. Bank transfer only. Interesting. Can you provide me with detailed photos, original receipts? Thanks |
|
🙈 🙉 🙊
New Member
🗨️ 122
👍🏻 110
February 2018
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by 🙈 🙉 🙊 on Feb 14, 2019 21:51:24 GMT 1, Hey, Rouen Cathedral I have an unsigned barcode I will sell you. Mint condition, stored flat. I bought it from my friend, who bought it from POW back in he day. No COA, but I trust them. I really need to sell, so how about £3000. Bank transfer only. Interesting. Can you provide me with detailed photos, original receipts? Thanks
No receipts as it was a long time ago, but I can send you pics. It’s in storage so it might take a while
Hey, Rouen Cathedral I have an unsigned barcode I will sell you. Mint condition, stored flat. I bought it from my friend, who bought it from POW back in he day. No COA, but I trust them. I really need to sell, so how about £3000. Bank transfer only. Interesting. Can you provide me with detailed photos, original receipts? Thanks No receipts as it was a long time ago, but I can send you pics. It’s in storage so it might take a while |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 14, 2019 21:53:27 GMT 1, Interesting. Can you provide me with detailed photos, original receipts? Thanks No receipts as it was a long time ago, but I can send you pics. It’s in storage so it might take a while
Sounds good please provide with photo proof of work in hand. And I can't be sure I won't buy a brainwash if you take too long 😜
Interesting. Can you provide me with detailed photos, original receipts? Thanks No receipts as it was a long time ago, but I can send you pics. It’s in storage so it might take a while Sounds good please provide with photo proof of work in hand. And I can't be sure I won't buy a brainwash if you take too long 😜 |
|
|
|
Art!
New Member
🗨️ 430
👍🏻 301
October 2016
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Art! on Feb 14, 2019 21:59:50 GMT 1, Soooooo, have any “2nd owners” applied directly to PC for the COA and heard back yet?
Soooooo, have any “2nd owners” applied directly to PC for the COA and heard back yet? Nothing yet, going on three weeks in a day or two. |
|
teabaggins
New Member
🗨️ 930
👍🏻 1,559
November 2018
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by teabaggins on Feb 14, 2019 22:50:18 GMT 1, It's still $20k without the COA. PC is just an email away to verify provenance and ownership for free and without having to issue a COA. Very easy to check the legitimacy of a print before purchasing on the secondary.
It's still $20k without the COA. PC is just an email away to verify provenance and ownership for free and without having to issue a COA. Very easy to check the legitimacy of a print before purchasing on the secondary.
|
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Coach on Feb 14, 2019 23:36:06 GMT 1, Jesus Christ! It’s still going on.
Jesus Christ! It’s still going on.
|
|
coller
Junior Member
🗨️ 2,384
👍🏻 2,371
April 2015
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by coller on Feb 15, 2019 0:39:41 GMT 1, let me take a shot at this. say you are buying a Banksy print with a market value of 20k USD. without the COA, the buyer will likely only spend 18k USD to accommodate for the risk of the print potentially being fake.with a COA, that risk is absolved, so the buyer will be more inclined to pay the full market price. the COA eliminates risk, it does not increase value. That's fine logic. But it's not acknowledging how the introduction of the pest control cert. Helped create the market. What would the market be if PC didn't exist? 18k for that print? Or would it be like 10k?
Pest Control provides a service. If anyone has an issue with it, they are free to avoid
let me take a shot at this. say you are buying a Banksy print with a market value of 20k USD. without the COA, the buyer will likely only spend 18k USD to accommodate for the risk of the print potentially being fake.with a COA, that risk is absolved, so the buyer will be more inclined to pay the full market price. the COA eliminates risk, it does not increase value. That's fine logic. But it's not acknowledging how the introduction of the pest control cert. Helped create the market. What would the market be if PC didn't exist? 18k for that print? Or would it be like 10k? i don't really understand the benefit of posing questions like this. who cares? Pest Control provides a service. If anyone has an issue with it, they are free to avoid |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Coach on Feb 15, 2019 0:57:12 GMT 1, That's fine logic. But it's not acknowledging how the introduction of the pest control cert. Helped create the market. What would the market be if PC didn't exist? 18k for that print? Or would it be like 10k? i don't really understand the benefit of posing questions like this. who cares? Pest Control provides a service. If anyone has an issue with it, they are free to avoid
It’s sealioning.
That's fine logic. But it's not acknowledging how the introduction of the pest control cert. Helped create the market. What would the market be if PC didn't exist? 18k for that print? Or would it be like 10k? i don't really understand the benefit of posing questions like this. who cares? Pest Control provides a service. If anyone has an issue with it, they are free to avoid It’s sealioning. |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by wakeskater on Feb 15, 2019 1:19:16 GMT 1, Soooooo, have any “2nd owners” applied directly to PC for the COA and heard back yet? Nothing yet, going on three weeks in a day or two.
It’s a month for me as of today. I’m sure it will come through as I provided all the items needed. Photos of the print, a copy of the original reciept, as well as photos of the original tube with images of the postage from POW. I imagine as a second owner I’m at the back of the list in authentication. Still, I’m sure that since it’s a Banksy I will eventually receive a COA and gladly pay the needed fee that helps support PC.
Soooooo, have any “2nd owners” applied directly to PC for the COA and heard back yet? Nothing yet, going on three weeks in a day or two. It’s a month for me as of today. I’m sure it will come through as I provided all the items needed. Photos of the print, a copy of the original reciept, as well as photos of the original tube with images of the postage from POW. I imagine as a second owner I’m at the back of the list in authentication. Still, I’m sure that since it’s a Banksy I will eventually receive a COA and gladly pay the needed fee that helps support PC. |
|
|
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Rouen Cathedral on Feb 15, 2019 1:25:48 GMT 1, That's fine logic. But it's not acknowledging how the introduction of the pest control cert. Helped create the market. What would the market be if PC didn't exist? 18k for that print? Or would it be like 10k? i don't really understand the benefit of posing questions like this. who cares? Pest Control provides a service. If anyone has an issue with it, they are free to avoid
You must not be a fan of the theory of art either.
"Who cares?" Lol
That's fine logic. But it's not acknowledging how the introduction of the pest control cert. Helped create the market. What would the market be if PC didn't exist? 18k for that print? Or would it be like 10k? i don't really understand the benefit of posing questions like this. who cares? Pest Control provides a service. If anyone has an issue with it, they are free to avoid You must not be a fan of the theory of art either. "Who cares?" Lol |
|
Art!
New Member
🗨️ 430
👍🏻 301
October 2016
|
Banksy • Sale Ends Today, by Art! on Feb 15, 2019 1:26:41 GMT 1, Nothing yet, going on three weeks in a day or two. It’s a month for me as of today. I’m sure it will come through as I provided all the items needed. Photos of the print, a copy of the original reciept, as well as photos of the original tube with images of the postage from POW. I imagine as a second owner I’m at the back of the list in authentication. Still, I’m sure that since it’s a Banksy I will eventually receive a COA and gladly pay the needed fee that helps support PC.
Agreed, I’m not worried at all. I’m sure we’ll get them in due time.
Nothing yet, going on three weeks in a day or two. It’s a month for me as of today. I’m sure it will come through as I provided all the items needed. Photos of the print, a copy of the original reciept, as well as photos of the original tube with images of the postage from POW. I imagine as a second owner I’m at the back of the list in authentication. Still, I’m sure that since it’s a Banksy I will eventually receive a COA and gladly pay the needed fee that helps support PC. Agreed, I’m not worried at all. I’m sure we’ll get them in due time. |
|
