artzzzy
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January 2021
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by artzzzy on May 25, 2021 15:12:02 GMT 1, Past decade FOMO has been a major selling point for these galleries and younger artists. There has been more speculation on new artists then ever before. It's almost like crypto, all speculation and no actual backing. More artists today are going from not being signed, selling large originals for 3-7k. Next day a "up and coming" gallery sees on Instagram - they have followings, signs them... then same pieces are now 20-40k and a three year waiting lists... Yet 1/2 of the new paintings end up at auction the following/same year painted - with "major" results... Auction results for 1- 5 year old paintings, paintings which were 3-7k pre gallery signed, now selling for 100k... The problem - is that it's not just one young artist - but across the board. This too me - and few of my gallery friends - think this is like crypto and some point going go pop. Those who made HUGE gains from a year old painting good for you but this one of the biggest red flags, to me, right now in the art market. I agree with a lot of this. People taking short term profits without considering the impact on the long term careers of these younger or newer artists. These works should not even be appearing at auction at this stage in a career in my opinion. Unfortunately this post won't be received well on here - those who own works by Epp will pull your argument apart, just as those who own works by Edgar Plans ferociously disagree with any criticism of his market.ย Unlike Plans I do think that Oli Epp is a very promising artist with a lot to say, and an interesting way of saying it, but unfortunately I don't think this type of behaviour is good for him in the longer term.ย
I also agree with what both of you are saying.
Most of these artists careers start, explode, get burned and end in less than ten years.
Their works move so quickly from being pushed by galleries, to being the subject of long wait lists, to being pushed by galleries again.
This system though works perfectly for the galleries and auction houses, because with internet and instagram thereโs constant supply of exciting new artists that they can continue to use, make more money of and burn.
But itโs actually dangerous for both artists and also for collectors who get carried away by the hype and end up with overpriced works that they donโt even like and wonโt be able to resell after the short hype is over.
Past decade FOMO has been a major selling point for these galleries and younger artists. There has been more speculation on new artists then ever before. It's almost like crypto, all speculation and no actual backing. More artists today are going from not being signed, selling large originals for 3-7k. Next day a "up and coming" gallery sees on Instagram - they have followings, signs them... then same pieces are now 20-40k and a three year waiting lists... Yet 1/2 of the new paintings end up at auction the following/same year painted - with "major" results... Auction results for 1- 5 year old paintings, paintings which were 3-7k pre gallery signed, now selling for 100k... The problem - is that it's not just one young artist - but across the board. This too me - and few of my gallery friends - think this is like crypto and some point going go pop. Those who made HUGE gains from a year old painting good for you but this one of the biggest red flags, to me, right now in the art market. I agree with a lot of this. People taking short term profits without considering the impact on the long term careers of these younger or newer artists. These works should not even be appearing at auction at this stage in a career in my opinion. Unfortunately this post won't be received well on here - those who own works by Epp will pull your argument apart, just as those who own works by Edgar Plans ferociously disagree with any criticism of his market.ย Unlike Plans I do think that Oli Epp is a very promising artist with a lot to say, and an interesting way of saying it, but unfortunately I don't think this type of behaviour is good for him in the longer term.ย I also agree with what both of you are saying. Most of these artists careers start, explode, get burned and end in less than ten years. Their works move so quickly from being pushed by galleries, to being the subject of long wait lists, to being pushed by galleries again. This system though works perfectly for the galleries and auction houses, because with internet and instagram thereโs constant supply of exciting new artists that they can continue to use, make more money of and burn. But itโs actually dangerous for both artists and also for collectors who get carried away by the hype and end up with overpriced works that they donโt even like and wonโt be able to resell after the short hype is over. |
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sircoxson
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by sircoxson on May 25, 2021 15:28:56 GMT 1, I agree with a lot of this. People taking short term profits without considering the impact on the long term careers of these younger or newer artists. These works should not even be appearing at auction at this stage in a career in my opinion. Unfortunately this post won't be received well on here - those who own works by Epp will pull your argument apart, just as those who own works by Edgar Plans ferociously disagree with any criticism of his market. Unlike Plans I do think that Oli Epp is a very promising artist with a lot to say, and an interesting way of saying it, but unfortunately I don't think this type of behaviour is good for him in the longer term. I also agree with what both of you are saying. Most of these artists careers start, explode, get burned and end in less than ten years. Their works move so quickly from being pushed by galleries, to being the subject of long wait lists, to being pushed by galleries again. This system though works perfectly for the galleries and auction houses, because with internet and instagram thereโs constant supply of exciting new artists that they can continue to use, make more money of and burn. But itโs actually dangerous for both artists and also for collectors who get carried away by the hype and end up with overpriced works that they donโt even like and wonโt be able to resell after the short hype is over.
I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies...
I agree with a lot of this. People taking short term profits without considering the impact on the long term careers of these younger or newer artists. These works should not even be appearing at auction at this stage in a career in my opinion. Unfortunately this post won't be received well on here - those who own works by Epp will pull your argument apart, just as those who own works by Edgar Plans ferociously disagree with any criticism of his market. Unlike Plans I do think that Oli Epp is a very promising artist with a lot to say, and an interesting way of saying it, but unfortunately I don't think this type of behaviour is good for him in the longer term. I also agree with what both of you are saying. Most of these artists careers start, explode, get burned and end in less than ten years. Their works move so quickly from being pushed by galleries, to being the subject of long wait lists, to being pushed by galleries again. This system though works perfectly for the galleries and auction houses, because with internet and instagram thereโs constant supply of exciting new artists that they can continue to use, make more money of and burn. But itโs actually dangerous for both artists and also for collectors who get carried away by the hype and end up with overpriced works that they donโt even like and wonโt be able to resell after the short hype is over. I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies... |
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Jimini Cricket
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on May 25, 2021 15:32:27 GMT 1,
Last year you tried to swap your Epp for a Calleja. You knew the Calleja was going to outperform the Epp financially. Well spotted.
Last year you tried to swap your Epp for a Calleja. You knew the Calleja was going to outperform the Epp financially. Well spotted. |
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Jimini Cricket
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on May 25, 2021 15:33:39 GMT 1, I also agree with what both of you are saying. Most of these artists careers start, explode, get burned and end in less than ten years. Their works move so quickly from being pushed by galleries, to being the subject of long wait lists, to being pushed by galleries again. This system though works perfectly for the galleries and auction houses, because with internet and instagram thereโs constant supply of exciting new artists that they can continue to use, make more money of and burn. But itโs actually dangerous for both artists and also for collectors who get carried away by the hype and end up with overpriced works that they donโt even like and wonโt be able to resell after the short hype is over. I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies...
Hello Oli. Welcome to the forum.
I also agree with what both of you are saying. Most of these artists careers start, explode, get burned and end in less than ten years. Their works move so quickly from being pushed by galleries, to being the subject of long wait lists, to being pushed by galleries again. This system though works perfectly for the galleries and auction houses, because with internet and instagram thereโs constant supply of exciting new artists that they can continue to use, make more money of and burn. But itโs actually dangerous for both artists and also for collectors who get carried away by the hype and end up with overpriced works that they donโt even like and wonโt be able to resell after the short hype is over. I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies... Hello Oli. Welcome to the forum. |
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sircoxson
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by sircoxson on May 25, 2021 15:37:11 GMT 1, I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies... Hello Oli. Welcome to the forum.
mic drop.
Well done.
I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies... Hello Oli. Welcome to the forum. mic drop. Well done. |
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Coach on May 25, 2021 15:39:49 GMT 1, I also agree with what both of you are saying. Most of these artists careers start, explode, get burned and end in less than ten years. Their works move so quickly from being pushed by galleries, to being the subject of long wait lists, to being pushed by galleries again. This system though works perfectly for the galleries and auction houses, because with internet and instagram thereโs constant supply of exciting new artists that they can continue to use, make more money of and burn. But itโs actually dangerous for both artists and also for collectors who get carried away by the hype and end up with overpriced works that they donโt even like and wonโt be able to resell after the short hype is over. I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies...
Do you know why it is bothering him?
I also agree with what both of you are saying. Most of these artists careers start, explode, get burned and end in less than ten years. Their works move so quickly from being pushed by galleries, to being the subject of long wait lists, to being pushed by galleries again. This system though works perfectly for the galleries and auction houses, because with internet and instagram thereโs constant supply of exciting new artists that they can continue to use, make more money of and burn. But itโs actually dangerous for both artists and also for collectors who get carried away by the hype and end up with overpriced works that they donโt even like and wonโt be able to resell after the short hype is over. I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies... Do you know why it is bothering him? |
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Sunny Garcia on May 25, 2021 15:44:58 GMT 1, This isnโt a new phenomenon, and Oli is actually โluckyโ that it took a few years to get a painting to auction (compared to how things are rolling these days). No artists want to see their work at auctions early (maybe never)...period.
Are we in another zombie formalism period of sorts?! Maybe. But some will for sure make it out the other side.
Oli has been acquired by a couple of museums, and is very active in promoting (and fostering) emerging artists, so one could think he has some potential! Some of these others (Edgar Plans, Bozo, etc...), Iโm not so sure. ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ
This isnโt a new phenomenon, and Oli is actually โluckyโ that it took a few years to get a painting to auction (compared to how things are rolling these days). No artists want to see their work at auctions early (maybe never)...period.
Are we in another zombie formalism period of sorts?! Maybe. But some will for sure make it out the other side.
Oli has been acquired by a couple of museums, and is very active in promoting (and fostering) emerging artists, so one could think he has some potential! Some of these others (Edgar Plans, Bozo, etc...), Iโm not so sure. ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ
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sircoxson
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by sircoxson on May 25, 2021 15:50:33 GMT 1, I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies... Do you know why it is bothering him?
plus he seems to be kind of disappointed when a primary owner is selling (so fast or ever...?)
I know that Epp was not amused to find out about his work being auctioned at Christies... Do you know why it is bothering him? as sunnygarcia wrote. plus he seems to be kind of disappointed when a primary owner is selling (so fast or ever...?) |
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Sundowner
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Sundowner on May 25, 2021 16:05:30 GMT 1, Was inevitably going to happen unfortunately and not much the artist or gallerists can do about it apart from blacklist the sellers - plus the Asian market seems to be particularly buoyant for young artists.
Was inevitably going to happen unfortunately and not much the artist or gallerists can do about it apart from blacklist the sellers - plus the Asian market seems to be particularly buoyant for young artists.
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Tommy Tucker
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Tommy Tucker on May 25, 2021 16:43:07 GMT 1, Also Jammie Holmes chilling it again
Also Jammie Holmes chilling it again
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Sunny Garcia on May 25, 2021 16:48:54 GMT 1, Also Jammie Holmes chilling it again
Also Jammie Holmes chilling it again Talking about market manipulation ๐ |
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sandinista
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by sandinista on May 25, 2021 17:14:10 GMT 1, I was thinking surely this is a pr thing.
I was thinking surely this is a pr thing.
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Sunny Garcia on May 25, 2021 17:36:43 GMT 1, For Oli? No - it's a straight flip. The OG owner sold to the person who ended up auctioning it - obviously knowing that they were in for quick and easy money! The OG owner should have just auctioned it themselves, but I'll bet they thought it was an easy, "discreet" sale that may fly under the radar. Who knows!? ๐คทโโ๏ธ
I'll wager that he'll sign with a bigger gallery in the not so far off distant future. I think the smart play would be to hold Oil for a while now ๐ ๐
For Oli? No - it's a straight flip. The OG owner sold to the person who ended up auctioning it - obviously knowing that they were in for quick and easy money! The OG owner should have just auctioned it themselves, but I'll bet they thought it was an easy, "discreet" sale that may fly under the radar. Who knows!? ๐คทโโ๏ธ
I'll wager that he'll sign with a bigger gallery in the not so far off distant future. I think the smart play would be to hold Oil for a while now ๐ ๐
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Jimini Cricket
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on May 25, 2021 21:33:14 GMT 1, So I lay it all out for the dumbshits, this is a pure investment pov. Artist #1 - $15k in 2018 is now $1m Hong Kong Artist #2 - $15k in 2017 is now $5m Hong Kong. The IQs are running low today. If you want to talk about the actual art or the artist's career, I really don't care. It's still quite a peculiar argument. Your point was that Oli has a lot of catching up to do to reach the price of another completely arbitrary artist who was available for the same price in 2018 and sold in the same sale this week. So? They're not peers. As others have said, one is three years into his career, the other is decades in.ย As an investment argument, your point only makes sense if your plan was to buy one of those two artists in 2018 and sell in 2021. Otherwise one artist's price has nothing to do with the other. And if you're talking about investment you probably should be thinking about an artist's career, no?
If the emerging artist is at a different point of their career compared to a mid career artist, then they shouldn't have charged the same price for a similar sized piece around the same time. Art market is an open field, and money does not discriminate the age or what stage an artist is in their careers.
Investment performance wise, the return is what you'll be measured on.
Matthew Wong hasn't even entered the chat, and I purposely left him out because I have an interest.
The other two I can speak freely because I have zero interest.
Namaste
So I lay it all out for the dumbshits, this is a pure investment pov. Artist #1 - $15k in 2018 is now $1m Hong Kong Artist #2 - $15k in 2017 is now $5m Hong Kong. The IQs are running low today. If you want to talk about the actual art or the artist's career, I really don't care. It's still quite a peculiar argument. Your point was that Oli has a lot of catching up to do to reach the price of another completely arbitrary artist who was available for the same price in 2018 and sold in the same sale this week. So? They're not peers. As others have said, one is three years into his career, the other is decades in.ย As an investment argument, your point only makes sense if your plan was to buy one of those two artists in 2018 and sell in 2021. Otherwise one artist's price has nothing to do with the other. And if you're talking about investment you probably should be thinking about an artist's career, no? If the emerging artist is at a different point of their career compared to a mid career artist, then they shouldn't have charged the same price for a similar sized piece around the same time. Art market is an open field, and money does not discriminate the age or what stage an artist is in their careers. Investment performance wise, the return is what you'll be measured on. Matthew Wong hasn't even entered the chat, and I purposely left him out because I have an interest. The other two I can speak freely because I have zero interest. Namaste |
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by oliverclarke on Jun 15, 2021 21:44:37 GMT 1, Anyone going for his latest print Bon Voyage edition of 50
Blouin Division gallery?
Anyone going for his latest print Bon Voyage edition of 50
Blouin Division gallery?
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Jimini Cricket
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on Jun 15, 2021 23:57:11 GMT 1, 2,200 big cheezys yo
2,200 big cheezys yo
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Sunny Garcia on Jun 16, 2021 1:09:56 GMT 1, Oliโs primary prices for prints are right where theyโd prolly sell on the secondary, so I wouldnโt be surprised in the least to see this one sit for a bit.
Heโs not the only one though - some great SHRN artists are doing the exact same thing: Dominique Fung, and Devin B Johnson to name just two.
At least Oliโs new print is a screen-print! Itโs a solid one for sure.
Oliโs primary prices for prints are right where theyโd prolly sell on the secondary, so I wouldnโt be surprised in the least to see this one sit for a bit.
Heโs not the only one though - some great SHRN artists are doing the exact same thing: Dominique Fung, and Devin B Johnson to name just two.
At least Oliโs new print is a screen-print! Itโs a solid one for sure.
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Jimini Cricket
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December 2017
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on Jun 16, 2021 2:46:04 GMT 1, biggie Carl Cashman Art Oli Epp has a gift for both of you. Edition of 50 $2,200. Fill yer boots.
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Sunny Garcia on Jun 16, 2021 4:00:47 GMT 1, I'm not sure how I feel about a one armed blind earthworm with a wig and flight attendant outfit with an oxygen bag just floating in the scene.
Itโs Britney Spears in the toxic video.
I'm not sure how I feel about a one armed blind earthworm with a wig and flight attendant outfit with an oxygen bag just floating in the scene. Itโs Britney Spears in the toxic video. |
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djp
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by djp on Jun 21, 2021 20:10:58 GMT 1,
Thanks for sharing
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kjg
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by kjg on Jun 29, 2021 17:30:52 GMT 1,
Arrived today. Itโs a nice set of cards :-)
Arrived today. Itโs a nice set of cards :-) |
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Jimini Cricket
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on Jul 5, 2021 8:48:49 GMT 1, www.phillips.com/detail/oli-epp/UK010321/66/
Place your bets. Over or under ยฃ150,000?
Over means this original canvas just scrapes past Javier Calleja's highest single WORK ON PAPER. Hahaha. Long way to go before hitting the magic million dollar mark.
I subsist on the tears of Oli Epp supporters.
www.phillips.com/detail/oli-epp/UK010321/66/Place your bets. Over or under ยฃ150,000? Over means this original canvas just scrapes past Javier Calleja's highest single WORK ON PAPER. Hahaha. Long way to go before hitting the magic million dollar mark. I subsist on the tears of Oli Epp supporters.
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Poster Bob
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Poster Bob on Jul 5, 2021 10:24:53 GMT 1, I'm more interested in what happens with the Thierry Noir and Simphiwe Ndzube works, especially the latter.
I'm more interested in what happens with the Thierry Noir and Simphiwe Ndzube works, especially the latter.
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Sunny Garcia on Jul 5, 2021 18:27:59 GMT 1, Simphiwe going to go off ๐
Simphiwe going to go off ๐
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sircoxson
New Member
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December 2010
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by sircoxson on Jul 5, 2021 19:11:27 GMT 1, www.phillips.com/detail/oli-epp/UK010321/66/Place your bets. Over or under ยฃ150,000? Over means this original canvas just scrapes past Javier Calleja's highest single WORK ON PAPER. Hahaha. Long way to go before hitting the magic million dollar mark. I subsist on the tears of Oli Epp supporters.
under. could be still a good/great result considering primary cost...
www.phillips.com/detail/oli-epp/UK010321/66/Place your bets. Over or under ยฃ150,000? Over means this original canvas just scrapes past Javier Calleja's highest single WORK ON PAPER. Hahaha. Long way to go before hitting the magic million dollar mark. I subsist on the tears of Oli Epp supporters. under. could be still a good/great result considering primary cost... |
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Jimini Cricket
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,886
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December 2017
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on Jul 5, 2021 19:18:54 GMT 1, www.phillips.com/detail/oli-epp/UK010321/66/Place your bets. Over or under ยฃ150,000? Over means this original canvas just scrapes past Javier Calleja's highest single WORK ON PAPER. Hahaha. Long way to go before hitting the magic million dollar mark. I subsist on the tears of Oli Epp supporters. under. could be still a good/great result considering primary cost...
Yeh. Profit is profit.
www.phillips.com/detail/oli-epp/UK010321/66/Place your bets. Over or under ยฃ150,000? Over means this original canvas just scrapes past Javier Calleja's highest single WORK ON PAPER. Hahaha. Long way to go before hitting the magic million dollar mark. I subsist on the tears of Oli Epp supporters. under. could be still a good/great result considering primary cost... Yeh. Profit is profit. |
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Jimini Cricket
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,886
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December 2017
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on Jul 13, 2021 14:09:51 GMT 1, And we're off!
See you in a few hours time to discuss Oli Epp's result.
And we're off!
See you in a few hours time to discuss Oli Epp's result.
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Jimini Cricket
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,886
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December 2017
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on Jul 13, 2021 14:22:09 GMT 1, Crazy result.
Early results coming in and they are NOT frothy. Kudzanai, Emily, Salman and Claire posting average numbers compared to historicals they have achieved in the past.
Crazy result.
Early results coming in and they are NOT frothy. Kudzanai, Emily, Salman and Claire posting average numbers compared to historicals they have achieved in the past.
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Jimini Cricket
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,886
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December 2017
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Oli Epp ๐ฌ๐ง Post-Digital Pop โข New Painting โข Art For Sale, by Jimini Cricket on Jul 13, 2021 14:37:40 GMT 1, Simphiwe hammered in at ยฃ30,000 for a 200*150cm.
Time to return those prints back to Avant Arte.
As for how it's looking for the rest of the emerging artist sales...
Simphiwe hammered in at ยฃ30,000 for a 200*150cm. Time to return those prints back to Avant Arte. As for how it's looking for the rest of the emerging artist sales... |
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