.dappy
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,841
๐๐ป 9,462
December 2010
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by .dappy on Apr 12, 2020 20:32:06 GMT 1,  Never heard of this gentleman before, but I came across it last night browsing art websites. I think itโs a cool image for our current state of the world.ย
... I think there is a few of that type of image around ...
http://instagram.com/p/B-KlvJVDt7a
Never heard of this gentleman before, but I came across it last night browsing art websites. I think itโs a cool image for our current state of the world.ย ... I think there is a few of that type of image around ... http://instagram.com/p/B-KlvJVDt7a |
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Winter
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,155
๐๐ป 4,461
March 2007
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by Winter on Apr 12, 2020 20:53:40 GMT 1, A few months into this I feel we can see the effect itโs truly having on the art market. Weโre seeing amazing art being pumped out by lots of artists across the globe. Most of them benefiting their local charities in some form. I also feel the effect c-19 has had on the art market is togetherness; it has brought people together, although still 6 feet apart. It also seems as though we are seeing some of the best of humanity out of a lot of people. Not all, but many. Iโd say the effect is light out of the dark in the art world.
Great the subject of this thread hasnโt been completely forgotten about. A few people using it as a political soap box. I agree with the best of humanity/togetherness part until I read the nasty comments on this forum from a handful of members. Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel.
A few months into this I feel we can see the effect itโs truly having on the art market. Weโre seeing amazing art being pumped out by lots of artists across the globe. Most of them benefiting their local charities in some form. I also feel the effect c-19 has had on the art market is togetherness; it has brought people together, although still 6 feet apart. It also seems as though we are seeing some of the best of humanity out of a lot of people. Not all, but many. Iโd say the effect is light out of the dark in the art world. Great the subject of this thread hasnโt been completely forgotten about. A few people using it as a political soap box. I agree with the best of humanity/togetherness part until I read the nasty comments on this forum from a handful of members. Hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel. |
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mw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 186
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September 2019
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irl1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,274
๐๐ป 9,381
December 2017
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irl1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,274
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December 2017
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mw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 186
๐๐ป 98
September 2019
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by mw on Apr 14, 2020 2:37:43 GMT 1, It's also an ever evolving situation and what was the right decision at one particular point in time may with hindsight prove to be have been not so well thought out.
Yes China may have withheld information but the WHO knew enough that they should have advised to limit air travel to and from China alot sooner.
As for the virus, let's hope there is cooperation across countries to try and iron out some of the anomalies and gain a greater understanding. Someone told me there is thought that the poor ventilation success appears to be Covid19 hampering the bloods ability to absorb Oยฒ. Anticoagulants may improve outcome rates and lessen some of the strokes that are being reported.
Thankfully the NHS capacity doesn't look like it's going to be tested, however you wonder whether more onus should have put on PPE accumulation.
It's also an ever evolving situation and what was the right decision at one particular point in time may with hindsight prove to be have been not so well thought out.
Yes China may have withheld information but the WHO knew enough that they should have advised to limit air travel to and from China alot sooner.
As for the virus, let's hope there is cooperation across countries to try and iron out some of the anomalies and gain a greater understanding. Someone told me there is thought that the poor ventilation success appears to be Covid19 hampering the bloods ability to absorb Oยฒ. Anticoagulants may improve outcome rates and lessen some of the strokes that are being reported.
Thankfully the NHS capacity doesn't look like it's going to be tested, however you wonder whether more onus should have put on PPE accumulation.
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mw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 186
๐๐ป 98
September 2019
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by mw on Apr 14, 2020 3:02:17 GMT 1, Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen.
Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen.
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brycepen
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 477
๐๐ป 252
May 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by brycepen on Apr 14, 2020 4:41:02 GMT 1, Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. Thereโs been articles published about how C-19 will change the way we take blood donations forever. But sure, if you are lance armstrong, you would be set with your bags of your previously drawn, oxygen infused blood to transfuse at will. ๐๐ป But I agree. If they werenโt soo expensive. That would be the way to go sir. You should take Fauciโs place. It makes you wonder if people like Boris were on an ECMO vs a ventilator; or shall I say โjust a ventilatorโ. ๐
Not that I disagree, but ECMO machines cost a freaking fortune. Iโm quite sure that many of us here could have made smarter decisions than these โexpertsโ and political leaders.
For Godโs sake, in the beginning of March, every hysterical medical professional was raving about the shortage of personal protective equipment and how we need millions and millions more masks a day!
And I thought, โwhy we canโt just sterilize and reuse masks? Am I missing something? Maybe it was too inconvenient or not cost effective back when the cheap supply exceeded their demand, but now it seems like a much smarter solution than making tens of millions of masks just to toss in the garbage.
My sister is a hospital nurse and my brother a physician, so I went to both of them and asked them what they thought. And they both really were like, โhuh, that actually does make a lot of sense.โ And my sister was like โmaybe you should call these idiot hospital administrators and teach them a thing or two.โ
And all I thought was โhow is it that there isnโt a single medical expert, hospital administrator, or medical director that hasnโt already thought of this and implemented it?!โ
All it takes is, I dunno, some disinfectant and then dry heating the object at around 160 degrees Fahr/70 degrees Celsius. You do it in university chemistry labs all the time.
Sure enough, an entire month later, somebody apparently figured this all out and we have started sterilizing hundreds of thousands of masks a day instead of needlessly tossing them out or just forcing frontline workers to treat patients without protection.
Itโs just amazing to me that the entire approach to treating patients is to rely on the opinions of the same 5-10 global experts that havenโt actually worked in a hospital for 40 years or even treated any patients that have this disease.
Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. Thereโs been articles published about how C-19 will change the way we take blood donations forever. But sure, if you are lance armstrong, you would be set with your bags of your previously drawn, oxygen infused blood to transfuse at will. ๐๐ป But I agree. If they werenโt soo expensive. That would be the way to go sir. You should take Fauciโs place. It makes you wonder if people like Boris were on an ECMO vs a ventilator; or shall I say โjust a ventilatorโ. ๐ Not that I disagree, but ECMO machines cost a freaking fortune. Iโm quite sure that many of us here could have made smarter decisions than these โexpertsโ and political leaders. For Godโs sake, in the beginning of March, every hysterical medical professional was raving about the shortage of personal protective equipment and how we need millions and millions more masks a day! And I thought, โwhy we canโt just sterilize and reuse masks? Am I missing something? Maybe it was too inconvenient or not cost effective back when the cheap supply exceeded their demand, but now it seems like a much smarter solution than making tens of millions of masks just to toss in the garbage. My sister is a hospital nurse and my brother a physician, so I went to both of them and asked them what they thought. And they both really were like, โhuh, that actually does make a lot of sense.โ And my sister was like โmaybe you should call these idiot hospital administrators and teach them a thing or two.โ And all I thought was โhow is it that there isnโt a single medical expert, hospital administrator, or medical director that hasnโt already thought of this and implemented it?!โ All it takes is, I dunno, some disinfectant and then dry heating the object at around 160 degrees Fahr/70 degrees Celsius. You do it in university chemistry labs all the time. Sure enough, an entire month later, somebody apparently figured this all out and we have started sterilizing hundreds of thousands of masks a day instead of needlessly tossing them out or just forcing frontline workers to treat patients without protection. Itโs just amazing to me that the entire approach to treating patients is to rely on the opinions of the same 5-10 global experts that havenโt actually worked in a hospital for 40 years or even treated any patients that have this disease. |
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brycepen
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 477
๐๐ป 252
May 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by brycepen on Apr 14, 2020 5:50:40 GMT 1, I think if the source ends up being the New Wuhan Facility, things will get โfroggyโ. Literally. My money is thats 110% where it came from. I also feel they are trying to END all sources and avenues that point back to it. Good luck coming back from your โpublishingโ meeting if your article doesnโt lead away from the lab. I give as much credibility to the WHO as I do to Interpol after China kidnapped Meng, the CHIEF of INTERPOL a few years back when he entered China. ๐ Yeah... remember that? Thatโs who your dealing with. Donโt forget it. Theyโve known from the jump that once c-19 enters your lungs, your body loses its ability to fight it off or absorb oxygen in the lungs. The problem is, without a way to digress, a ventilator is your only option at that point.
You are 100% right. Iโm definitely not an expert in microbiology or viral mutation, but I do know more than enough about structural biochemistry and, more specifically, how it applies to membrane function, membrane receptor binding sites, enzyme binding sites, etc.
Back in February, I was easily able to find images on the internet of the detailed chemical structure of the virus, how it varied from prior coronaviruses, why itโs structure made it exponentially more dangerous and deadly. If you honestly believe the idea that a bat in wuhan happened to carry a coronavirus that was remarkably similar to MERS, and then somehow that virus genetically mutated in a way that it added a perfect spike-shaped ACE2 receptor binding site to the head of the โcrownsโ which cover the surface of the virus, and then someone ate that bat, and THAT is how millions of people across the globe got infected, you are honestly an idiot.
In laymenโs terms, they claim a bat/frog/whatever carried a virus which mutated in a way that ONLY affected how the disease attacks human cells. They are saying that, while being present in an animal, the virus somehow gained the genetic coding to produce a receptor which binds to the enzyme that controls human blood pressure. Imagine a ball covered in spikes that both rapidly invade your bodyโs cells and then the ball spikes simultaneously inhibit the enzyme which helps your body slow down blood flow, the very enzyme which would control the speed at which the virus could circulate through your bloodstream. And through this enzyme inhibition, the virus conversely INCREASES your blood pressure, making the virus circulate through your bloodstream far more rapidly than it normally could.
Last week, I wanted to take another look at the virusโs chemical structure. I had to scour the internet and still was not able to find an image that was nearly as detailed as the ones I had seen before. So, as much as Iโd love to solidly prove that my initial analysis is accurate, I cannot do that now.
Even putting aside the overt attempts to conceal any science based evidence about the origins of the virus, the Chinese governmentโs widespread misinformation campaign, their ruthless efforts to silence activist journalists and the mysterious disappearance of Chinese doctors that tried to sound the alarm to the rest of the medical community. There was the global delay in issuing policy guidance, a complete absence of data to explain what was driving the limited guidance offered to the public, and now we have erratic statistics and conflicting information thrown at us daily.
Honestly, I canโt even wrap my head around all of it. Anyway, sorry for the incredibly long post. Iโm going to stop postulating about the existence of a massive global conspiracy and get back to watching mindless tv and maybe try to do some painting.
I think if the source ends up being the New Wuhan Facility, things will get โfroggyโ. Literally. My money is thats 110% where it came from. I also feel they are trying to END all sources and avenues that point back to it. Good luck coming back from your โpublishingโ meeting if your article doesnโt lead away from the lab. I give as much credibility to the WHO as I do to Interpol after China kidnapped Meng, the CHIEF of INTERPOL a few years back when he entered China. ๐ Yeah... remember that? Thatโs who your dealing with. Donโt forget it. Theyโve known from the jump that once c-19 enters your lungs, your body loses its ability to fight it off or absorb oxygen in the lungs. The problem is, without a way to digress, a ventilator is your only option at that point. You are 100% right. Iโm definitely not an expert in microbiology or viral mutation, but I do know more than enough about structural biochemistry and, more specifically, how it applies to membrane function, membrane receptor binding sites, enzyme binding sites, etc. Back in February, I was easily able to find images on the internet of the detailed chemical structure of the virus, how it varied from prior coronaviruses, why itโs structure made it exponentially more dangerous and deadly. If you honestly believe the idea that a bat in wuhan happened to carry a coronavirus that was remarkably similar to MERS, and then somehow that virus genetically mutated in a way that it added a perfect spike-shaped ACE2 receptor binding site to the head of the โcrownsโ which cover the surface of the virus, and then someone ate that bat, and THAT is how millions of people across the globe got infected, you are honestly an idiot. In laymenโs terms, they claim a bat/frog/whatever carried a virus which mutated in a way that ONLY affected how the disease attacks human cells. They are saying that, while being present in an animal, the virus somehow gained the genetic coding to produce a receptor which binds to the enzyme that controls human blood pressure. Imagine a ball covered in spikes that both rapidly invade your bodyโs cells and then the ball spikes simultaneously inhibit the enzyme which helps your body slow down blood flow, the very enzyme which would control the speed at which the virus could circulate through your bloodstream. And through this enzyme inhibition, the virus conversely INCREASES your blood pressure, making the virus circulate through your bloodstream far more rapidly than it normally could. Last week, I wanted to take another look at the virusโs chemical structure. I had to scour the internet and still was not able to find an image that was nearly as detailed as the ones I had seen before. So, as much as Iโd love to solidly prove that my initial analysis is accurate, I cannot do that now. Even putting aside the overt attempts to conceal any science based evidence about the origins of the virus, the Chinese governmentโs widespread misinformation campaign, their ruthless efforts to silence activist journalists and the mysterious disappearance of Chinese doctors that tried to sound the alarm to the rest of the medical community. There was the global delay in issuing policy guidance, a complete absence of data to explain what was driving the limited guidance offered to the public, and now we have erratic statistics and conflicting information thrown at us daily. Honestly, I canโt even wrap my head around all of it. Anyway, sorry for the incredibly long post. Iโm going to stop postulating about the existence of a massive global conspiracy and get back to watching mindless tv and maybe try to do some painting. |
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denzil
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 703
๐๐ป 398
April 2009
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by denzil on Apr 14, 2020 7:09:59 GMT 1, this pot banging lark is fuckin daft.i live on the 3rd floor of a tower block and once a week get 12 lots of potentially infected on their balcony's spluttering airborn virus in my direction no ?
this pot banging lark is fuckin daft.i live on the 3rd floor of a tower block and once a week get 12 lots of potentially infected on their balcony's spluttering airborn virus in my direction no ?
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pellets
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 758
๐๐ป 751
October 2018
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by pellets on Apr 14, 2020 9:12:24 GMT 1, Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen.
I saw the description of that machine that adds oxygen directly to your blood on Dr. Hopeโs youtube vlog. Unbelievable, i mean absolute science fiction. Maybe its not that crazy if you know about medicine but im in awe that it is something we can do.
Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. I saw the description of that machine that adds oxygen directly to your blood on Dr. Hopeโs youtube vlog. Unbelievable, i mean absolute science fiction. Maybe its not that crazy if you know about medicine but im in awe that it is something we can do. |
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mw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 186
๐๐ป 98
September 2019
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by mw on Apr 14, 2020 10:23:07 GMT 1, Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. Thereโs been articles published about how C-19 will change the way we take blood donations forever. But sure, if you are lance armstrong, you would be set with your bags of your previously drawn, oxygen infused blood to transfuse at will. ๐๐ป But I agree. If they werenโt soo expensive. That would be the way to go sir. You should take Fauciโs place. It makes you wonder if people like Boris were on an ECMO vs a ventilator; or shall I say โjust a ventilatorโ. ๐
Think Boris was just on Oยฒ, must have responded well to that. Didn't sound too breathless in his thank you speech.
Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. Thereโs been articles published about how C-19 will change the way we take blood donations forever. But sure, if you are lance armstrong, you would be set with your bags of your previously drawn, oxygen infused blood to transfuse at will. ๐๐ป But I agree. If they werenโt soo expensive. That would be the way to go sir. You should take Fauciโs place. It makes you wonder if people like Boris were on an ECMO vs a ventilator; or shall I say โjust a ventilatorโ. ๐ Think Boris was just on Oยฒ, must have responded well to that. Didn't sound too breathless in his thank you speech. |
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mw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 186
๐๐ป 98
September 2019
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by mw on Apr 14, 2020 10:27:26 GMT 1, Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. I saw the description of that machine that adds oxygen directly to your blood on Dr. Hopeโs youtube vlog. Unbelievable, i mean absolute science fiction. Maybe its not that crazy if you know about medicine but im in awe that it is something we can do.
Very impressive, but as has been said, expensive machine. Also, like ventilation, very invasive so not for the weak.
Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. I saw the description of that machine that adds oxygen directly to your blood on Dr. Hopeโs youtube vlog. Unbelievable, i mean absolute science fiction. Maybe its not that crazy if you know about medicine but im in awe that it is something we can do. Very impressive, but as has been said, expensive machine. Also, like ventilation, very invasive so not for the weak. |
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mw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 186
๐๐ป 98
September 2019
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by mw on Apr 14, 2020 15:45:22 GMT 1, That'ss**t, sorry to hear this, I have a school mate, in his 40s, who is being decided upon today. Unfortunately as time goes on this will get more personal to everyone.
I completely agree, we need to look at Germany and South Korea as examples on how to do it, but as you say, years of underfunding are now becoming painfully transparent. The only saving grace is that the wonderful NHS staff aren't a load of disloyal, money grabbing liars!
That'ss**t, sorry to hear this, I have a school mate, in his 40s, who is being decided upon today. Unfortunately as time goes on this will get more personal to everyone.
I completely agree, we need to look at Germany and South Korea as examples on how to do it, but as you say, years of underfunding are now becoming painfully transparent. The only saving grace is that the wonderful NHS staff aren't a load of disloyal, money grabbing liars!
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by moron on Apr 14, 2020 18:14:21 GMT 1, Lets put it this way. The government now knows more about this virus than they are admitting. and it didn't originate in a fish market. and regarding Boris going round hospitals shaking peoples hands etc etc. The W H O (world health organisation) made a statement on January 14th on Twitter that human to human transmission was not possible. When all of this is sorted out. The WHO and China have a lot of explaining to do. It is so easy to speculate but have to try to have reasonable thoughts with the limited factual information out there , I do agree limited information given to the public Harsh idea but reality every countries government benefits from the groups most effected by their decline long term
For a bat virus to mutate or change genetically into a new human flu virus via another host animal, (pangolin or snake has been suggested).
The host animal has to be infected with the bat virus and the human flu virus at the same time and then to infect a human. The chances of that are very slim.
The chance of a bio lab researching bat virus only three hundred yards from the animal market, where one scientist got bat blood on themselves had to isolate himself for fourteen days. Where the animals bats etc dissected etc and their tissue and carcasses and blood were disposed of in bins. Is more of a possibility that infected pathogens leaked out one way or another from the lab and infected animals or people at the market.
Lets put it this way. The government now knows more about this virus than they are admitting. and it didn't originate in a fish market. and regarding Boris going round hospitals shaking peoples hands etc etc. The W H O (world health organisation) made a statement on January 14th on Twitter that human to human transmission was not possible. When all of this is sorted out. The WHO and China have a lot of explaining to do. It is so easy to speculate but have to try to have reasonable thoughts with the limited factual information out there , I do agree limited information given to the public Harsh idea but reality every countries government benefits from the groups most effected by their decline long term For a bat virus to mutate or change genetically into a new human flu virus via another host animal, (pangolin or snake has been suggested). The host animal has to be infected with the bat virus and the human flu virus at the same time and then to infect a human. The chances of that are very slim. The chance of a bio lab researching bat virus only three hundred yards from the animal market, where one scientist got bat blood on themselves had to isolate himself for fourteen days. Where the animals bats etc dissected etc and their tissue and carcasses and blood were disposed of in bins. Is more of a possibility that infected pathogens leaked out one way or another from the lab and infected animals or people at the market. |
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by moron on Apr 14, 2020 18:30:40 GMT 1, ... the tweet from WHO in January doesn't actually say that ... but that is not the first time you take reports and then make it up yourself ๐๐๐ 'The W H O (world health organisation) made a statement on January 14th on Twitter that human to human transmission was not possible.''So if frontline staff and doctors treating people took this advice as fact back then from the WHO and believed that human to human transmission was impossible'
"World Health Organization (WHO)
@who
ยท Jan 14
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China๐จ๐ณ."
The WHO are entirely responsible for telling the world on January 14th that there is no clear evidence of human to human transmission. The WHO took the Chinese evidence at face value and repeated it.
The WHO should not have made that statement by the Chinese an official WHO statement.
The Guardian reports that they have seen guidance notes by top WHO officials warning of "potential" human to human transmission as early as January 10 but being the Guardian, they have not published these guidance notes or proven that these notes they saw actually existed on January 10 or after. Anyway that's the Guardian who have published fake news about Covid themselves and who are doing their best to give credit to the head of the WHO who has no scientific credentials or credibility apart from being a communist sympathiser and terrorist supporter.
... the tweet from WHO in January doesn't actually say that ... but that is not the first time you take reports and then make it up yourself ๐๐๐ 'The W H O (world health organisation) made a statement on January 14th on Twitter that human to human transmission was not possible.''So if frontline staff and doctors treating people took this advice as fact back then from the WHO and believed that human to human transmission was impossible' Yes it does say exactly that Dappy: this is not the first time that you have shown everybody that you are thick and just out to troll and insult people. You seem to have a problem with me and some others on here for some reason. Anyway you live with your lies and being part of a clique not me. "World Health Organization (WHO)
@who
ยท Jan 14
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China๐จ๐ณ." The WHO are entirely responsible for telling the world on January 14th that there is no clear evidence of human to human transmission. The WHO took the Chinese evidence at face value and repeated it. The WHO should not have made that statement by the Chinese an official WHO statement. The Guardian reports that they have seen guidance notes by top WHO officials warning of "potential" human to human transmission as early as January 10 but being the Guardian, they have not published these guidance notes or proven that these notes they saw actually existed on January 10 or after. Anyway that's the Guardian who have published fake news about Covid themselves and who are doing their best to give credit to the head of the WHO who has no scientific credentials or credibility apart from being a communist sympathiser and terrorist supporter. |
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by moron on Apr 14, 2020 18:35:54 GMT 1, The WHO made that statement which a lot of people accepted. Did the who publicly admit that they had misled people about transmission from human to human was not possible. I thought the WHO gave out facts not what China told them to say? Youโve foolishly parroted Trumpโs erroneous attempt to blame the WHO for the pandemic by pointing to the same WHO tweet from 14th January which stated โthe Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmissionโ. Itโs pretty obvious to anyone without an agenda and half a brain that the WHO were simply repeating what theyโve been told by โthe Chinese authoritiesโ initial studies on the matter, not offering their own findings. But... Earlier the very same week, WHO officials were briefing health leaders around the world to keep looking for signs of human-to-human transmission in published technical guidance notes on the 10th and 11th. The notes laid out detailed clinical criteria for dealing with suspected cases as well as warning of the risk of ease of transmission both by airborne droplets and contact with contaminated surfaces, suggesting isolation procedures. And letโs not forget, the US National Center For Medical Intelligence findings on Coronavirus in China were briefed to the White House and military officials in late 2019. Nothing was done in response. They failed to prepare despite ample warnings.
I'm not blaming the WHO for the pandemic but am blaming the WHO for legitimising a lie. Why would the WHO simply go along with China and repeat officially what China told them?
Post a link to the technical guidance notes from January 10 to prove they actually exist.
The WHO made that statement which a lot of people accepted. Did the who publicly admit that they had misled people about transmission from human to human was not possible. I thought the WHO gave out facts not what China told them to say? Youโve foolishly parroted Trumpโs erroneous attempt to blame the WHO for the pandemic by pointing to the same WHO tweet from 14th January which stated โthe Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmissionโ. Itโs pretty obvious to anyone without an agenda and half a brain that the WHO were simply repeating what theyโve been told by โthe Chinese authoritiesโ initial studies on the matter, not offering their own findings. But... Earlier the very same week, WHO officials were briefing health leaders around the world to keep looking for signs of human-to-human transmission in published technical guidance notes on the 10th and 11th. The notes laid out detailed clinical criteria for dealing with suspected cases as well as warning of the risk of ease of transmission both by airborne droplets and contact with contaminated surfaces, suggesting isolation procedures. And letโs not forget, the US National Center For Medical Intelligence findings on Coronavirus in China were briefed to the White House and military officials in late 2019. Nothing was done in response. They failed to prepare despite ample warnings. Learn to read. I'm not blaming the WHO for the pandemic but am blaming the WHO for legitimising a lie. Why would the WHO simply go along with China and repeat officially what China told them? Post a link to the technical guidance notes from January 10 to prove they actually exist. |
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by moron on Apr 14, 2020 18:47:25 GMT 1, Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. Thereโs been articles published about how C-19 will change the way we take blood donations forever. But sure, if you are lance armstrong, you would be set with your bags of your previously drawn, oxygen infused blood to transfuse at will. ๐๐ป But I agree. If they werenโt soo expensive. That would be the way to go sir. You should take Fauciโs place. It makes you wonder if people like Boris were on an ECMO vs a ventilator; or shall I say โjust a ventilatorโ. ๐
I saw the reports of using blood plasma from people who have recovered from Covid to give to people with Covid in hospital to boost their immunity against Covid.
Maybe they should have concentrated on acquiring more ECMO machines, blood transfusion with added oxygen. Thereโs been articles published about how C-19 will change the way we take blood donations forever. But sure, if you are lance armstrong, you would be set with your bags of your previously drawn, oxygen infused blood to transfuse at will. ๐๐ป But I agree. If they werenโt soo expensive. That would be the way to go sir. You should take Fauciโs place. It makes you wonder if people like Boris were on an ECMO vs a ventilator; or shall I say โjust a ventilatorโ. ๐ How does oxygen infused blood make a difference when people with Covid get pneumonia which is fluid build up in the lungs? I saw the reports of using blood plasma from people who have recovered from Covid to give to people with Covid in hospital to boost their immunity against Covid. |
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by moron on Apr 14, 2020 19:14:12 GMT 1, This is such a tough thread as itโs very emotionally charged. But, I do think Tab1 had come across some solid things on some govt websites, specifically in the U.K. The MOST interesting is that they seem to recognize that they canโt stop the virus. The point of quarantines is to slow the loads it has on hospitals and stop pure chaos. A slow burn so to speak. Itโs also interesting that people are so quick to label theories about origin as fake news or lies when they havenโt come up with a source. Shouldnโt all theories hold some weight until they can be proven true or false? I certainly do. I find it VERY interesting these meat markets are open without knowing a source or a patient zero. And VERY interesting they have banned media and their own local scholars for posting their own coronavirus papers without a 3 tiered, multi-level govt screening for said articles. Something they didnโt have in place in Feb. It all screams cover-up and thatโs why the conspiracy theories are flying. Itโs easy to see China is hiding something. Itโs harder to guess all of the details. Especially as they try to erase or hide them from being published. I think that even though it may not be lab โcreatedโ, I still feel that there is a 50/50 on if China fucked up in their new lab that tests coronavirusโ in Wuhan, as the theory it was from a meat market across the street. Maybe a combo of the two. This is a good thread. Hopefully folks can just try not to destroy each other over varying opinions in it as that has been a common denominator when entering this one for many. Remember, there are no FACTS until there is a source. Everything is speculation and the media are a bunch of paid lobbyists going to the highest bidder. So fukk the opinions of whoever owns their souls. Listen to them, donโt buy them blindly.
It could have global repercussions.
There were two Sars outbreaks in 2002 and 2004 in China.
The first in 2002 was said to have come from animal infecting a human.
The outbreak in 2004 came from a laboratory.
That information is from the UK NHS website and also from the WHO website.
Now here is the WHO again way back just after the SARs outbreak admitting to cases from laboratory accidents.
"An epidemic of SARS affected 26 countries and resulted in more than 8000 cases in 2003. Since then, a small number of cases have occurred as a result of laboratory accidents or, possibly, through animal-to-human transmission (Guangdong, China)."
"Transmission of SARS-CoV is primarily from person to person. It appears to have occurred mainly during the second week of illness,"
"in July 2003, SARS has reappeared four times โ three times from laboratory accidents (Singapore and Chinese Taipei), and once in southern China where the source of infection remains undetermined although there is circumstantial evidence of animal-to-human transmission."
www.who.int/ith/diseases/sars/en/
It would be interesting to know how genetically similar or different the SARS - 1 virus is to today's SARS - 2 virus.
Regarding infections and the large numbers of people who catch Covid in hospitals including doctors and nurses treating sick patients.
SARS-1 became highly contagious from people who were in their second week of illness and infected others who came close to them.
That is probably similar for SARS-2 (covid 19).
deja vu all over again ?
Cause
"SARS coronavirus (SARS-CoV) โ virus identified in 2003. SARS-CoV is thought to be an animal virus from an as-yet-uncertain animal reservoir, perhaps bats, that spread to other animals (civet cats) and first infected humans in the Guangdong province of southern China in 2002."
www.who.int/ith/diseases/sars/en/
This is such a tough thread as itโs very emotionally charged. But, I do think Tab1 had come across some solid things on some govt websites, specifically in the U.K. The MOST interesting is that they seem to recognize that they canโt stop the virus. The point of quarantines is to slow the loads it has on hospitals and stop pure chaos. A slow burn so to speak. Itโs also interesting that people are so quick to label theories about origin as fake news or lies when they havenโt come up with a source. Shouldnโt all theories hold some weight until they can be proven true or false? I certainly do. I find it VERY interesting these meat markets are open without knowing a source or a patient zero. And VERY interesting they have banned media and their own local scholars for posting their own coronavirus papers without a 3 tiered, multi-level govt screening for said articles. Something they didnโt have in place in Feb. It all screams cover-up and thatโs why the conspiracy theories are flying. Itโs easy to see China is hiding something. Itโs harder to guess all of the details. Especially as they try to erase or hide them from being published. I think that even though it may not be lab โcreatedโ, I still feel that there is a 50/50 on if China fucked up in their new lab that tests coronavirusโ in Wuhan, as the theory it was from a meat market across the street. Maybe a combo of the two. This is a good thread. Hopefully folks can just try not to destroy each other over varying opinions in it as that has been a common denominator when entering this one for many. Remember, there are no FACTS until there is a source. Everything is speculation and the media are a bunch of paid lobbyists going to the highest bidder. So fukk the opinions of whoever owns their souls. Listen to them, donโt buy them blindly. They know the source of contamination and they know patient/s zero but China will never reveal it and for political reasons other countries will suppress it too. It could have global repercussions. There were two Sars outbreaks in 2002 and 2004 in China. The first in 2002 was said to have come from animal infecting a human. The outbreak in 2004 came from a laboratory. That information is from the UK NHS website and also from the WHO website. Now here is the WHO again way back just after the SARs outbreak admitting to cases from laboratory accidents. "An epidemic of SARS affected 26 countries and resulted in more than 8000 cases in 2003. Since then, a small number of cases have occurred as a result of laboratory accidents or, possibly, through animal-to-human transmission (Guangdong, China)."
"Transmission of SARS-CoV is primarily from person to person. It appears to have occurred mainly during the second week of illness,"
"in July 2003, SARS has reappeared four times โ three times from laboratory accidents (Singapore and Chinese Taipei), and once in southern China where the source of infection remains undetermined although there is circumstantial evidence of animal-to-human transmission."
www.who.int/ith/diseases/sars/en/
It would be interesting to know how genetically similar or different the SARS - 1 virus is to today's SARS - 2 virus. Regarding infections and the large numbers of people who catch Covid in hospitals including doctors and nurses treating sick patients. SARS-1 became highly contagious from people who were in their second week of illness and infected others who came close to them. That is probably similar for SARS-2 (covid 19). deja vu all over again ? Cause "SARS coronavirus (SARS-CoV) โ virus identified in 2003. SARS-CoV is thought to be an animal virus from an as-yet-uncertain animal reservoir, perhaps bats, that spread to other animals (civet cats) and first infected humans in the Guangdong province of southern China in 2002." www.who.int/ith/diseases/sars/en/ |
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tab1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,519
๐๐ป 3,679
September 2011
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by tab1 on Apr 14, 2020 19:30:52 GMT 1, assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/61934/national_risk_register.pdf
Page 16/52. (Page 14 on the document )ref 2.34 onwards
There are 6 different government documents including nhs documents that had set a scenario as now ,pre empted and pre planned for this event.
I wonder if a Statistical model would be made to show the difference If all the actions set in place and the set ppe the government were suppose to have would drastically change the figures at present .
These documentS are fully researched and can costs hundreds of thousands and touch a million gdp in some cases to research and compile.
If all these documents were followed many deaths would of been prevented and saved , what is the point of compiling these documents and spending the vast sums if they are not followed ?
Decades of cost cutting has cut corners and has effected the whole Population now , Part of council tax is supposed to support the groups most effected now , the elderly , homeless but these budgets were Also cut too.
All the tax we pay has not been allocated as it should be , mainly the nhs that we all depend on desperately
Elderly are always visiting surgeries or hospitals where there is a high chance of being infected then sent back to their care homes where the cycle of infections will continue , there is no action plan to stop this .
Figures of deaths are really high in care homes from covid 19 but this is not recorded against National covid 19 deaths statistics
The rate of care the elderly get now will be less when we reach their age with the amount of cuts still to continue in this sector with the recession to come
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/61934/national_risk_register.pdfPage 16/52. (Page 14 on the document )ref 2.34 onwards There are 6 different government documents including nhs documents that had set a scenario as now ,pre empted and pre planned for this event. I wonder if a Statistical model would be made to show the difference If all the actions set in place and the set ppe the government were suppose to have would drastically change the figures at present . These documentS are fully researched and can costs hundreds of thousands and touch a million gdp in some cases to research and compile. If all these documents were followed many deaths would of been prevented and saved , what is the point of compiling these documents and spending the vast sums if they are not followed ? Decades of cost cutting has cut corners and has effected the whole Population now , Part of council tax is supposed to support the groups most effected now , the elderly , homeless but these budgets were Also cut too. All the tax we pay has not been allocated as it should be , mainly the nhs that we all depend on desperately Elderly are always visiting surgeries or hospitals where there is a high chance of being infected then sent back to their care homes where the cycle of infections will continue , there is no action plan to stop this . Figures of deaths are really high in care homes from covid 19 but this is not recorded against National covid 19 deaths statistics The rate of care the elderly get now will be less when we reach their age with the amount of cuts still to continue in this sector with the recession to come
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by moron on Apr 14, 2020 19:36:58 GMT 1, โOne Moron and His Dogโ
โOne Moron and His Dogโ lol and who was it that told the world that Steve Jobs was a migrant? |
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moron
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,711
๐๐ป 1,051
September 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by moron on Apr 14, 2020 19:48:19 GMT 1, assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/61934/national_risk_register.pdfPage 16 ref 2.34 onwards There are 6 different government documents including nhs documents that had set a scenario as now ,pre empted and pre planned for this event. I wonder if a Statistical model would be made to show the difference If all the actions set in place and the set ppe the government were suppose to have would drastically chance the figures at present . These documentS are fully researched and can costs hundreds of thousands and touch a million gdp in some cases to research and compile. If all these documents were followed many deaths would of been prevented and saved , what is the point of compiling these documents and spending the vast sums if they are not followed ? Decades of cost cutting has cut corners and has effected the whole Population now , Part of council tax is supposed to support the groups most effected now , the elderly , homeless but these budgets were Also cut too. All the tax we pay has not been allocated as it should be , mainly the nhs that we all depend on desperately Elderly are always visiting surgeries or hospitals where there is a high chance of being infected then sent back to their care homes where the cycle of infections will continue , there is no action plan to stop this . Figures of deaths are really high in care homes from covid 19 but this is not recorded against National covid 19 deaths statistics The rate of care the elderly get now will be less when we reach their age with the amount of cuts still to continue in this sector with the recession to come
I was watching the news reports on the outbreak in China Wuhan from day one and quickly came to the conclusion that it will find it's way to europe and other countries.
The decades of cost cutting is true but also true is that some people who work for the NHS deliberately over order products such as syringes etc etc which sit on shelves and pass their sell by date and which are given by the truck load to charities? or people who instead of destroying them, re sell them to other countries. It's an ongoing scam that costs the NHS million and should be investigated.
The doctors and scientists don't call the shots regarding preparing the country and people for this pandemic, the politicians do and the virtue signalling ones from Italy and Holland etc who when China was dealing with the epidemic decided to send their reserve stocks of masks and ppe to China instead of holding on to the masks. Now that the epidemic hit their countries they ended up buying back the masks from China. Belgium also destroyed a huge stock of masks recently to make room to house migrants. The politicians are to blame entirely for the mess that european countries are in now.
Macron gave a speech to the French saying the government made mistakes. He never said who in government made mistakes and which mistakes. Basically it's more refusing to be honest and not naming name sin government and holding ministers responsible.
They don't care, they all protect each other.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/61934/national_risk_register.pdfPage 16 ref 2.34 onwards There are 6 different government documents including nhs documents that had set a scenario as now ,pre empted and pre planned for this event. I wonder if a Statistical model would be made to show the difference If all the actions set in place and the set ppe the government were suppose to have would drastically chance the figures at present . These documentS are fully researched and can costs hundreds of thousands and touch a million gdp in some cases to research and compile. If all these documents were followed many deaths would of been prevented and saved , what is the point of compiling these documents and spending the vast sums if they are not followed ? Decades of cost cutting has cut corners and has effected the whole Population now , Part of council tax is supposed to support the groups most effected now , the elderly , homeless but these budgets were Also cut too. All the tax we pay has not been allocated as it should be , mainly the nhs that we all depend on desperately Elderly are always visiting surgeries or hospitals where there is a high chance of being infected then sent back to their care homes where the cycle of infections will continue , there is no action plan to stop this . Figures of deaths are really high in care homes from covid 19 but this is not recorded against National covid 19 deaths statistics The rate of care the elderly get now will be less when we reach their age with the amount of cuts still to continue in this sector with the recession to come I was watching the news reports on the outbreak in China Wuhan from day one and quickly came to the conclusion that it will find it's way to europe and other countries. The decades of cost cutting is true but also true is that some people who work for the NHS deliberately over order products such as syringes etc etc which sit on shelves and pass their sell by date and which are given by the truck load to charities? or people who instead of destroying them, re sell them to other countries. It's an ongoing scam that costs the NHS million and should be investigated. The doctors and scientists don't call the shots regarding preparing the country and people for this pandemic, the politicians do and the virtue signalling ones from Italy and Holland etc who when China was dealing with the epidemic decided to send their reserve stocks of masks and ppe to China instead of holding on to the masks. Now that the epidemic hit their countries they ended up buying back the masks from China. Belgium also destroyed a huge stock of masks recently to make room to house migrants. The politicians are to blame entirely for the mess that european countries are in now. Macron gave a speech to the French saying the government made mistakes. He never said who in government made mistakes and which mistakes. Basically it's more refusing to be honest and not naming name sin government and holding ministers responsible. They don't care, they all protect each other. |
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mw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 186
๐๐ป 98
September 2019
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by mw on Apr 14, 2020 20:06:45 GMT 1, Thereโs been articles published about how C-19 will change the way we take blood donations forever. But sure, if you are lance armstrong, you would be set with your bags of your previously drawn, oxygen infused blood to transfuse at will. ๐๐ป But I agree. If they werenโt soo expensive. That would be the way to go sir. You should take Fauciโs place. It makes you wonder if people like Boris were on an ECMO vs a ventilator; or shall I say โjust a ventilatorโ. ๐ How does oxygen infused blood make a difference when people with Covid get pneumonia which is fluid build up in the lungs? I saw the reports of using blood plasma from people who have recovered from Covid to give to people with Covid in hospital to boost their immunity against Covid.
It's possible to transplant antibodies, haven't heard of it happening in the UK, hospital presentation usually quite late on. Have known it happen with pregnant ladies and chickenpox.
Thereโs been articles published about how C-19 will change the way we take blood donations forever. But sure, if you are lance armstrong, you would be set with your bags of your previously drawn, oxygen infused blood to transfuse at will. ๐๐ป But I agree. If they werenโt soo expensive. That would be the way to go sir. You should take Fauciโs place. It makes you wonder if people like Boris were on an ECMO vs a ventilator; or shall I say โjust a ventilatorโ. ๐ How does oxygen infused blood make a difference when people with Covid get pneumonia which is fluid build up in the lungs? I saw the reports of using blood plasma from people who have recovered from Covid to give to people with Covid in hospital to boost their immunity against Covid. If the lungs aren't doing their job of getting oxygen into the bloodstream, then doing it artificially bypasses them. It's possible to transplant antibodies, haven't heard of it happening in the UK, hospital presentation usually quite late on. Have known it happen with pregnant ladies and chickenpox. |
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irl1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,274
๐๐ป 9,381
December 2017
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by irl1 on Apr 14, 2020 20:25:16 GMT 1, Best wishes hope your keeping safe
I feel like this is as good a place as any to post... I wish you all good health, please stay safe. Please stay distant from one another, please wash your hands, please wear masks regardless of what your government says. Please take this seriously. It's serious. I also hope you all stay employed, many of us are in for some financial difficulties soon if not now. Beyond trying to keep my business afloat, I'm on the board of our co-op/apartment building so there is quite a lot for us all to do here trying to keep all of the residents safe and essential services working. It's why I haven't been around a bunch lately and probably won't be for a while. Please keep yourselves safe and I'll see you all soon (ish). xo
Best wishes hope your keeping safe I feel like this is as good a place as any to post... I wish you all good health, please stay safe. Please stay distant from one another, please wash your hands, please wear masks regardless of what your government says. Please take this seriously. It's serious. I also hope you all stay employed, many of us are in for some financial difficulties soon if not now. Beyond trying to keep my business afloat, I'm on the board of our co-op/apartment building so there is quite a lot for us all to do here trying to keep all of the residents safe and essential services working. It's why I haven't been around a bunch lately and probably won't be for a while. Please keep yourselves safe and I'll see you all soon (ish). xo |
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Extra Ball
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 625
๐๐ป 543
February 2014
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by Extra Ball on Apr 14, 2020 20:42:46 GMT 1, curious not to hear the boss when many artists provide their support or their voice.
curious not to hear the boss when many artists provide their support or their voice.
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tab1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,519
๐๐ป 3,679
September 2011
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by tab1 on Apr 15, 2020 0:25:59 GMT 1,
With out eradication Of covid 19 by opening up borders and travel to foreign countries , different strains may be introduced and if herd immunity did work it would only work with the strain present in your homeland not a foreign introduced strain.
opening up world travel could create an even worse situation ?
there is still no medical research to prove herd immunity would work and you would be immune to further infection.
suggested before if all deaths could be tested would be easier to see the spread in the population.
there are no laws Or compulsory for Everyone to complete tests or Receive a vaccine if one is developed for the whole population , there are religious groups and cults that disapprove any medical intervention , eventually to solve this Situation everyone needs to be involved in any programme of testing and vaccination
With out eradication Of covid 19 by opening up borders and travel to foreign countries , different strains may be introduced and if herd immunity did work it would only work with the strain present in your homeland not a foreign introduced strain.
opening up world travel could create an even worse situation ?
there is still no medical research to prove herd immunity would work and you would be immune to further infection.
suggested before if all deaths could be tested would be easier to see the spread in the population.
there are no laws Or compulsory for Everyone to complete tests or Receive a vaccine if one is developed for the whole population , there are religious groups and cults that disapprove any medical intervention , eventually to solve this Situation everyone needs to be involved in any programme of testing and vaccination
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tab1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,519
๐๐ป 3,679
September 2011
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by tab1 on Apr 15, 2020 0:44:31 GMT 1, โSo won't the real Slim Shady please stand up Please stand up, please stand up?โ 
โSo won't the real Slim Shady please stand up Please stand up, please stand up?โ Fitting , my Pooh bear mitts having trouble typing on a smartphone !๐ |
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tab1
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,519
๐๐ป 3,679
September 2011
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Corona Virus effect on the art market?, by tab1 on Apr 15, 2020 2:25:09 GMT 1, news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-were-wearing-bin-bags-to-protect-ourselves-the-desperate-story-of-a-care-home-worker-11973284
can apply to all workers of any profession , without any vaccine or medicine to aid symptoms a few will be unwilling to present them selves to potential danger by returning to their places of work , with so many uncertainties still unknown about the virus
already stories of neighbours of medical professionals and care workers becoming cautious to these groups of workers And creating a stigma
with any profession staff would not discuss fears of not returning to work with their colleagues as actions deemed inappropriate
ideally once tests are in plentiful numbers would think it would be pressing for unions to insist all workers not under restrictions of home working would be provided with free tests, beneficial to the employer as keeps productivity up by less loss of staff due to sickness
and helps the community as prevents further infections .
the dangerous point to this virus is the long incubation period and many not showing symptoms and thereby potential carriers carry on with normal life activities and infect many others
by case studies Conducted and other countries actions would make sense for all members of the public to use face masks when leaving their home
www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/everyone-should-wear-masks-in-covid-19-crisis-say-cambridge-researchers
news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-were-wearing-bin-bags-to-protect-ourselves-the-desperate-story-of-a-care-home-worker-11973284can apply to all workers of any profession , without any vaccine or medicine to aid symptoms a few will be unwilling to present them selves to potential danger by returning to their places of work , with so many uncertainties still unknown about the virus already stories of neighbours of medical professionals and care workers becoming cautious to these groups of workers And creating a stigma with any profession staff would not discuss fears of not returning to work with their colleagues as actions deemed inappropriate ideally once tests are in plentiful numbers would think it would be pressing for unions to insist all workers not under restrictions of home working would be provided with free tests, beneficial to the employer as keeps productivity up by less loss of staff due to sickness and helps the community as prevents further infections . the dangerous point to this virus is the long incubation period and many not showing symptoms and thereby potential carriers carry on with normal life activities and infect many others by case studies Conducted and other countries actions would make sense for all members of the public to use face masks when leaving their home www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/everyone-should-wear-masks-in-covid-19-crisis-say-cambridge-researchers
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