daveart
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 940
๐๐ป 885
February 2008
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by daveart on Sept 19, 2013 15:10:05 GMT 1, surprised to see an unsigned happy chopper selling higher than the rude coppper.
surprised to see an unsigned happy chopper selling higher than the rude coppper.
|
|
anbesivam1
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,493
๐๐ป 820
February 2012
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by anbesivam1 on Sept 19, 2013 15:28:35 GMT 1, WTF NBG selling for ยฃ8750...If this isn't price/market manipulation I don't know what is...
WTF NBG selling for ยฃ8750...If this isn't price/market manipulation I don't know what is...
|
|
lee3
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 832
๐๐ป 1,290
November 2009
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by lee3 on Sept 19, 2013 16:14:49 GMT 1, WTF NBG selling for ยฃ8750...If this isn't price/market manipulation I don't know what is...
Manipulation in what sense? Do you believe that someone is sitting on 10 or more of those and just paying whatever it takes at auction in the hopes that they can set price for the next buyer that comes along? I tend to take a print auction at face but perhaps I'm naรฏve. I've been watching for years though and these print auctions tend to be dealers just outbidding one another for their own stock. I suppose I can appreciate someone suggesting that buyer pool is manipulation in itself but I don't see it that way.
There is no doubt those prices were high but it is London. What I found of interest were 3 Warhol electric chairs which all sold where they've been trading for the past 15 years (less than $8k) and a pair of Mao's that traded for half of what they've been trading for recently ($30k each). To me that is all the evidence one needs to argue that volume plays such a critical role for the edition market in that Warhol has over 100k signed prints out there so easy to source any day of the week. Whereas Banksy has what 5k, maybe 7500 signed prints in sum? Imo, that is one of the primary reasons for comparatively high prices on signed works.
I don't have any rational whatsoever for the unsigned markets but clearly overall volume for the signed markets can not be overstated in pricing terms.
WTF NBG selling for ยฃ8750...If this isn't price/market manipulation I don't know what is... Manipulation in what sense? Do you believe that someone is sitting on 10 or more of those and just paying whatever it takes at auction in the hopes that they can set price for the next buyer that comes along? I tend to take a print auction at face but perhaps I'm naรฏve. I've been watching for years though and these print auctions tend to be dealers just outbidding one another for their own stock. I suppose I can appreciate someone suggesting that buyer pool is manipulation in itself but I don't see it that way. There is no doubt those prices were high but it is London. What I found of interest were 3 Warhol electric chairs which all sold where they've been trading for the past 15 years (less than $8k) and a pair of Mao's that traded for half of what they've been trading for recently ($30k each). To me that is all the evidence one needs to argue that volume plays such a critical role for the edition market in that Warhol has over 100k signed prints out there so easy to source any day of the week. Whereas Banksy has what 5k, maybe 7500 signed prints in sum? Imo, that is one of the primary reasons for comparatively high prices on signed works. I don't have any rational whatsoever for the unsigned markets but clearly overall volume for the signed markets can not be overstated in pricing terms. |
|
Winter
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,155
๐๐ป 4,461
March 2007
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Winter on Sept 19, 2013 16:17:43 GMT 1, CYW seems to do well at auction
CYW seems to do well at auction
|
|
anbesivam1
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,493
๐๐ป 820
February 2012
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by anbesivam1 on Sept 19, 2013 16:59:42 GMT 1, WTF NBG selling for ยฃ8750...If this isn't price/market manipulation I don't know what is... Manipulation in what sense? Do you believe that someone is sitting on 10 or more of those and just paying whatever it takes at auction in the hopes that they can set price for the next buyer that comes along? I tend to take a print auction at face but perhaps I'm naรฏve. I've been watching for years though and these print auctions tend to be dealers just outbidding one another for their own stock. I suppose I can appreciate someone suggesting that buyer pool is manipulation in itself but I don't see it that way. There is no doubt those prices were high but it is London. What I found of interest were 3 Warhol electric chairs which all sold where they've been trading for the past 15 years (less than $8k) and a pair of Mao's that traded for half of what they've been trading for recently ($30k each). To me that is all the evidence one needs to argue that volume plays such a critical role for the edition market in that Warhol has over 100k signed prints out there so easy to source any day of the week. Whereas Banksy has what 5k, maybe 7500 signed prints in sum? Imo, that is one of the primary reasons for comparatively high prices on signed works. I don't have any rational whatsoever for the unsigned markets but clearly overall volume for the signed markets can not be overstated in pricing terms.
Hey mate, I have based my assessment on that fact that any buyer of this print is:
a) usually someone who knows something about Banksy
b) will thus know that he can walk into any gallery that deals in secondary Banksy's and buy it for less than ยฃ8,750.
c) so who, knowing this fact, will pay above the market rate...basically a gallery/dealer with Banksy stock.
It is a practice that is not unknown in the art world...
WTF NBG selling for ยฃ8750...If this isn't price/market manipulation I don't know what is... Manipulation in what sense? Do you believe that someone is sitting on 10 or more of those and just paying whatever it takes at auction in the hopes that they can set price for the next buyer that comes along? I tend to take a print auction at face but perhaps I'm naรฏve. I've been watching for years though and these print auctions tend to be dealers just outbidding one another for their own stock. I suppose I can appreciate someone suggesting that buyer pool is manipulation in itself but I don't see it that way. There is no doubt those prices were high but it is London. What I found of interest were 3 Warhol electric chairs which all sold where they've been trading for the past 15 years (less than $8k) and a pair of Mao's that traded for half of what they've been trading for recently ($30k each). To me that is all the evidence one needs to argue that volume plays such a critical role for the edition market in that Warhol has over 100k signed prints out there so easy to source any day of the week. Whereas Banksy has what 5k, maybe 7500 signed prints in sum? Imo, that is one of the primary reasons for comparatively high prices on signed works. I don't have any rational whatsoever for the unsigned markets but clearly overall volume for the signed markets can not be overstated in pricing terms. Hey mate, I have based my assessment on that fact that any buyer of this print is: a) usually someone who knows something about Banksy b) will thus know that he can walk into any gallery that deals in secondary Banksy's and buy it for less than ยฃ8,750. c) so who, knowing this fact, will pay above the market rate...basically a gallery/dealer with Banksy stock. It is a practice that is not unknown in the art world... |
|
lee3
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 832
๐๐ป 1,290
November 2009
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by lee3 on Sept 19, 2013 17:34:05 GMT 1, >>>so who, knowing this fact, will pay above the market rate...basically a gallery/dealer with Banksy stock.
<<<
Not to be argumentative but I have met countless people at auctions over the years who will only buy at the primary houses (Sotheby's and Christie's). I can't count how many times I've sat next to buyers that are far wealthier than I could ever hope to be who have told me they never buy from a dealer. That buyer simply wants the peace of mind that comes from being able to point a provenance finger to the big houses should anything go wrong. IOW, they are happy to overpay for something to establish that provenance. It happens more often than most realize I think.
>>>so who, knowing this fact, will pay above the market rate...basically a gallery/dealer with Banksy stock.
<<<
Not to be argumentative but I have met countless people at auctions over the years who will only buy at the primary houses (Sotheby's and Christie's). I can't count how many times I've sat next to buyers that are far wealthier than I could ever hope to be who have told me they never buy from a dealer. That buyer simply wants the peace of mind that comes from being able to point a provenance finger to the big houses should anything go wrong. IOW, they are happy to overpay for something to establish that provenance. It happens more often than most realize I think.
|
|
|
|
anbesivam1
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,493
๐๐ป 820
February 2012
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by anbesivam1 on Sept 19, 2013 17:35:43 GMT 1, >>>so who, knowing this fact, will pay above the market rate...basically a gallery/dealer with Banksy stock. <<< Not to be argumentative but I have met countless people at auctions over the years who will only buy at the primary houses (Sotheby's and Christie's). I can't count how many times I've sat near buyers that are far wealthier than I could ever hope to be who have told me they never buy from a dealer. That buyer simply wants the peace of mind that comes from being able to point a provenance finger to the big houses should anything go wrong. IOW, they are happy to overpay for something to establish that provenance. It happens more often than most realize I think.
>>>so who, knowing this fact, will pay above the market rate...basically a gallery/dealer with Banksy stock. <<< Not to be argumentative but I have met countless people at auctions over the years who will only buy at the primary houses (Sotheby's and Christie's). I can't count how many times I've sat near buyers that are far wealthier than I could ever hope to be who have told me they never buy from a dealer. That buyer simply wants the peace of mind that comes from being able to point a provenance finger to the big houses should anything go wrong. IOW, they are happy to overpay for something to establish that provenance. It happens more often than most realize I think. Granted...that does happen...but on a grey NBG's?? |
|
lee3
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 832
๐๐ป 1,290
November 2009
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by lee3 on Sept 19, 2013 17:41:20 GMT 1, >>>Granted...that does happen...but on a grey NBG's??<<<
That's my point, the argument works both ways. You are suggesting this is not in their league so why bother. Likewise, I am suggesting this is a low cost item in the grand scheme so why bother? Believe, me I understand the manipulation argument and have seen it many times over but it is more obvious to me when it occurs with originals and dealers that are sitting on an enormous supply of one artist. There are what, 500 NBG's out there and *I suspect* most of them are in private hands at this point as opposed to any one dealer sitting on 30 of those images. I could just as well be wrong and really not picking a fight but I tend to take the print auctions at face and rationalize 5 or 10 grand here and there above market as someone very wealthy who doesn't care be it dealer or collector. That's merely why I'm asking is that truly manipulation as I don't see it that way.
>>>Granted...that does happen...but on a grey NBG's??<<<
That's my point, the argument works both ways. You are suggesting this is not in their league so why bother. Likewise, I am suggesting this is a low cost item in the grand scheme so why bother? Believe, me I understand the manipulation argument and have seen it many times over but it is more obvious to me when it occurs with originals and dealers that are sitting on an enormous supply of one artist. There are what, 500 NBG's out there and *I suspect* most of them are in private hands at this point as opposed to any one dealer sitting on 30 of those images. I could just as well be wrong and really not picking a fight but I tend to take the print auctions at face and rationalize 5 or 10 grand here and there above market as someone very wealthy who doesn't care be it dealer or collector. That's merely why I'm asking is that truly manipulation as I don't see it that way.
|
|
dotdot
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,658
๐๐ป 1,030
December 2006
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by dotdot on Sept 19, 2013 17:51:13 GMT 1, Fwiw I'm meeting more and more people who do not buy anything from ebay.
If you were to only buy one banksy , for some they'd rather make it an event in public and in an auction.
Auction houses love making something of an event , while for many it's run of the mill.
Who here has been to one.. Just one ?
Fwiw I'm meeting more and more people who do not buy anything from ebay.
If you were to only buy one banksy , for some they'd rather make it an event in public and in an auction.
Auction houses love making something of an event , while for many it's run of the mill.
Who here has been to one.. Just one ?
|
|
philw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 168
๐๐ป 49
March 2013
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by philw on Sept 20, 2013 5:41:13 GMT 1, Is pricing at auction for bankys always this rediculous?
So many of these can be ha so much cheaper
Is pricing at auction for bankys always this rediculous?
So many of these can be ha so much cheaper
|
|
daveart
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 940
๐๐ป 885
February 2008
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by daveart on Sept 20, 2013 14:00:26 GMT 1, Banksy prints can be had much cheaper if you are willing to spend hours reading forums / risking things on Ebay / risking bad shipping once a deal is done -- etc. etc.. I agree that there is minipulation of prices.. i also agree that there are people willing to over pay a bit for the security of knowing it is not a fake and will not be damaged in transit. impossible to know for this particular item - so speaking of crazy over bidding . check out the Invader Tile Kit on artnet auction. this person may in fact be crazy.
Banksy prints can be had much cheaper if you are willing to spend hours reading forums / risking things on Ebay / risking bad shipping once a deal is done -- etc. etc.. I agree that there is minipulation of prices.. i also agree that there are people willing to over pay a bit for the security of knowing it is not a fake and will not be damaged in transit. impossible to know for this particular item - so speaking of crazy over bidding . check out the Invader Tile Kit on artnet auction. this person may in fact be crazy.
|
|
philw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 168
๐๐ป 49
March 2013
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by philw on Sept 20, 2013 15:42:33 GMT 1, One funny note; one of the only "expensive" pieces of art I had purchased and showed up damaged beyond repair was bought at auction : /
One funny note; one of the only "expensive" pieces of art I had purchased and showed up damaged beyond repair was bought at auction : /
|
|
maxf
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 470
๐๐ป 331
October 2012
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by maxf on Sept 20, 2013 16:27:44 GMT 1, Is ยฃ4k for a Rude Copper not cheap? Or am I miles off on pricing?
Is ยฃ4k for a Rude Copper not cheap? Or am I miles off on pricing?
|
|
ABC
Artist
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,533
๐๐ป 1,923
August 2006
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by ABC on Sept 22, 2013 21:20:41 GMT 1, Some nice Joan Miro's there.
Some nice Joan Miro's there.
|
|
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
|
|
Pattycakes
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,379
๐๐ป 423
June 2007
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Pattycakes on Nov 16, 2013 19:06:11 GMT 1, meh
meh
|
|
Emile
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 833
๐๐ป 507
October 2013
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Emile on Nov 17, 2013 12:52:19 GMT 1,
I don't get what is "meh" about this/these prints?
I don't get what is "meh" about this/these prints? |
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,612
๐๐ป 781
April 2008
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by silvermyn on Nov 18, 2013 20:28:54 GMT 1, I'll be interested to see what the signed QV fetches.
Sure, it has some condition issues but you don't see these come up to often :/
I'll be interested to see what the signed QV fetches.
Sure, it has some condition issues but you don't see these come up to often :/
|
|
iamzero
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,190
๐๐ป 8,545
May 2011
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by iamzero on Nov 18, 2013 21:44:24 GMT 1, So are there artist resale rights with Banksy?
So are there artist resale rights with Banksy?
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,612
๐๐ป 781
April 2008
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by silvermyn on Nov 29, 2013 19:42:55 GMT 1, Is anyone on here going to this auction next week?
Is anyone on here going to this auction next week?
|
|
Sundowner
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,227
๐๐ป 2,429
September 2008
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Sundowner on Nov 29, 2013 20:29:43 GMT 1, So are there artist resale rights with Banksy?
So are there artist resale rights with Banksy? Yes, think they are about 4%.... |
|
dotdot
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 3,658
๐๐ป 1,030
December 2006
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by dotdot on Nov 29, 2013 21:00:23 GMT 1, Yeah I think I'll drop by check out the condition of one or two works.
There is one work there I'd buy without a thought , but as ever only if its in good to mint condition.
Yeah I think I'll drop by check out the condition of one or two works.
There is one work there I'd buy without a thought , but as ever only if its in good to mint condition.
|
|
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 21:17:55 GMT 1, So are there artist resale rights with Banksy? Yes, think they are about 4%....
I think it depends how much a piece sells for.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resale_Rights_Directive
|
|
silvermyn
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,612
๐๐ป 781
April 2008
|
|
|
Sundowner
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,227
๐๐ป 2,429
September 2008
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Sundowner on Dec 5, 2013 17:30:59 GMT 1, Print was perfect! It sold for 6k + hammer
Print was perfect! It sold for 6k + hammer Did you buy it? |
|
|
|
Dungle
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,008
๐๐ป 5,174
June 2011
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Dungle on Mar 18, 2014 12:44:40 GMT 1, wow.
I could spend some serious cash at this.
wow.
I could spend some serious cash at this.
|
|
philw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 168
๐๐ป 49
March 2013
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by philw on Mar 18, 2014 14:49:38 GMT 1, Does it seem weird to anyone else that Christies has an unsigned banksy?
Does it seem weird to anyone else that Christies has an unsigned banksy?
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 14:50:19 GMT 1, Not to me.
Not to me.
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Christie's Art Auctions , by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 15:21:10 GMT 1, Christies may be a big name, but they are scurrilous enough to sell anything for a commission. They have form with price rigging as well.
Christies may be a big name, but they are scurrilous enough to sell anything for a commission. They have form with price rigging as well.
|
|
