Moon Walker
New Member
Posts โข 110
Likes โข 75
December 2017
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Moon Walker on Nov 11, 2020 22:02:30 GMT 1, USA East Coast Based but friends in FL, LA, London...
Ta x MW
USA East Coast Based but friends in FL, LA, London...
Ta x MW
|
|
Wanchope
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,339
Likes โข 1,149
February 2020
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Wanchope on Feb 18, 2024 21:54:49 GMT 1, Can anyone tell me ( who already owns one and can check) if this is a legitimate invader scream? I canโt work out if there is too much border at the bottom and if the number looks right as the โ5โ looks different to another Iโve seen.
Looking forward to the invader expertsโ thoughts?
Thanks
Can anyone tell me ( who already owns one and can check) if this is a legitimate invader scream? I canโt work out if there is too much border at the bottom and if the number looks right as the โ5โ looks different to another Iโve seen. Looking forward to the invader expertsโ thoughts? Thanks
|
|
|
Wanchope
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,339
Likes โข 1,149
February 2020
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Wanchope on Feb 18, 2024 23:15:38 GMT 1, Yep your example seems more yellowish and the 5 looks different in the โ50โ. Just doesnโt feel right but thanks for the advice Lroy
Yep your example seems more yellowish and the 5 looks different in the โ50โ. Just doesnโt feel right but thanks for the advice Lroy
|
|
|
Masong
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,126
Likes โข 2,711
March 2017
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Masong on Feb 18, 2024 23:25:19 GMT 1, Yep your example seems more yellowish and the 5 looks different in the โ50โ. Just doesnโt feel right but thanks for the advice Lroy I saw the listing too and had the same feeling that something didnโt feel right. In all fairness I know fook all. Have always wanted that one though.
Yep your example seems more yellowish and the 5 looks different in the โ50โ. Just doesnโt feel right but thanks for the advice Lroy I saw the listing too and had the same feeling that something didnโt feel right. In all fairness I know fook all. Have always wanted that one though.
|
|
|
Terry Fuckwitt
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,524
Likes โข 6,397
October 2019
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Terry Fuckwitt on Feb 18, 2024 23:34:32 GMT 1, Can anyone tell me ( who already owns one and can check) if this is a legitimate invader scream? I canโt work out if there is too much border at the bottom and if the number looks right as the โ5โ looks different to another Iโve seen. Looking forward to the invader expertsโ thoughts? Thanks Check out this thread here urbanartassociation.com/thread/181514/charitystars-genuine-fake
Can anyone tell me ( who already owns one and can check) if this is a legitimate invader scream? I canโt work out if there is too much border at the bottom and if the number looks right as the โ5โ looks different to another Iโve seen. Looking forward to the invader expertsโ thoughts? Thanks Check out this thread here urbanartassociation.com/thread/181514/charitystars-genuine-fake
|
|
Lazarus II
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,801
Likes โข 2,427
August 2019
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Lazarus II on Feb 18, 2024 23:48:19 GMT 1, The 5 does look a bit different to mines but my edition numbering spreads over the Lazarides embossing so embossing could have skewed it a bit ? I bought mines framed so cant really advise on border depth, Iamzeroโs pics will assist.
The 5 does look a bit different to mines but my edition numbering spreads over the Lazarides embossing so embossing could have skewed it a bit ? I bought mines framed so cant really advise on border depth, Iamzeroโs pics will assist.
|
|
Wanchope
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,339
Likes โข 1,149
February 2020
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Wanchope on Feb 19, 2024 0:04:21 GMT 1, Hmmm, cheers guys for the advice and think Iโll steer clear on this one.
All the best
Hmmm, cheers guys for the advice and think Iโll steer clear on this one.
All the best
|
|
Tommy Tucker
New Member
Posts โข 902
Likes โข 527
Member is Online
November 2011
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Tommy Tucker on Feb 19, 2024 1:50:30 GMT 1, I have reached out twice to find out what sort of proof of purchase they have and no response. Paper is too white for me as well.
I have reached out twice to find out what sort of proof of purchase they have and no response. Paper is too white for me as well.
|
|
Ruff star
New Member
Posts โข 126
Likes โข 73
Member is Online
December 2018
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Ruff star on Feb 19, 2024 3:15:10 GMT 1, looks fake
looks fake
|
|
Gentle Mental
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,796
Likes โข 833
May 2007
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Gentle Mental on Feb 19, 2024 3:16:32 GMT 1, Yup proof of purchase would be best. Itโs what the invader store folks said too. When I asked years ago.
Yup proof of purchase would be best. Itโs what the invader store folks said too. When I asked years ago.
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,680
Likes โข 6,288
June 2009
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by met on Feb 19, 2024 4:51:53 GMT 1, Can anyone tell me ( who already owns one and can check) if this is a legitimate invader scream? I canโt work out if there is too much border at the bottom and if the number looks right as the โ5โ looks different to another Iโve seen. Looking forward to the invader expertsโ thoughts? Thanks
Although I don't own one of these prints myself, I am familiar with it and have noticed a few counterfeits in circulation at some point or another.
Five years ago, Artnet was auctioning what looks to be an obvious fake*, which any attentive professional should really have spotted.
The Artnet counterfeit was probably a screenprint or giclรฉe reproduction, and it also came with a fake Lazarides blindstamp.
[NB: This would be another reminder of the potential dangers whenever we as collectors fail to carry out our own due diligence, and simply assume:
(a) all auction houses are reliable and have integrity;
(b) all auction houses have suitably-rigorous authentication-verification protocols in place, which are consistently applied for each and every proposed consignment (even when having to deal with dozens or hundreds of different consignments for a single sale); and/or
(c) the very fact they were hired by an auction house with name recognition must mean that all of the specialists who work there truly know what they're doing with respect to every artwork they accept on consignment.]
__________
Most longer‑term Invader collectors will already be aware that Invaded Scream is a woodcut.
An authentic print should therefore have identifiers consistent with a woodcut, like a slight texture in the printing and, at least with this specific multiple, a bit of textured roughness along the edges of the printed areas.
But such level of detail appears to be missing from the piece you were considering. It is especially noticeable when that print is compared side‑by‑side with some of the other online images of Invaded Scream.
Zoom in, for example, on the high‑res image of edition number 6/50*, which sold at a Christie's online sale in September 2023.
In fairness, certainty can be a little difficult to achieve from a single image shot in context, rather than multiple images including detailed close‑ups. And even more difficult when that one photo is slightly blurred (perhaps a deliberate, cynical choice by the seller).
The fact this photo was taken at an angle, instead of straight‑on, also makes it trickier to assess the correctness of the proportions of the printed areas versus those of the paper substrate, dated signature, and blindstamp.
All that said, and despite it being out of focus, I am confident the Lazarides blindstamp (and thus the print itself) is fake:
(i) the embossing of the letters looks more rounded than it should;
(ii) the letter 'L' seems to be missing the old Lazarides logo paint splash; and
(iii) most damningly, the overall width of the blindstamp (in relation to the diagonal pattern/linework at the bottom‑left corner of the print image) is too large.
__________
In my view, steering well clear of this print would be the wisest move to make.
If you know the relevant seller's name, or just their username, please do share it here as well โ along with the sale platform from which the print will most likely be offloaded onto some poor dupe of an Invader fan.
Can anyone tell me ( who already owns one and can check) if this is a legitimate invader scream? I canโt work out if there is too much border at the bottom and if the number looks right as the โ5โ looks different to another Iโve seen. Looking forward to the invader expertsโ thoughts? Thanks Although I don't own one of these prints myself, I am familiar with it and have noticed a few counterfeits in circulation at some point or another. Five years ago, Artnet was auctioning what looks to be an obvious fake*, which any attentive professional should really have spotted. The Art net counterfeit was probably a screenprint or giclรฉe reproduction, and it also came with a fake La zarides blindstamp. [NB: This would be another reminder of the potential dangers whenever we as collectors fail to carry out our own due diligence, and simply assume:
(a) all auction houses are reliable and have integrity;
(b) all auction houses have suitably-rigorous authentication-verification protocols in place, which are consistently applied for each and every proposed consignment (even when having to deal with dozens or hundreds of different consignments for a single sale); and/or
(c) the very fact they were hired by an auction house with name recognition must mean that all of the specialists who work there truly know what they're doing with respect to every artwork they accept on consignment.]__________ Most longer‑term In vader collectors will already be aware that Invaded Scream is a woodcut. An authentic print should therefore have identifiers consistent with a woodcut, like a slight texture in the printing and, at least with this specific multiple, a bit of textured roughness along the edges of the printed areas. But such level of detail appears to be missing from the piece you were considering. It is especially noticeable when that print is compared side‑by‑side with some of the other online images of Invaded Scream. Zoom in, for example, on the high‑res image of edition number 6/50 *, which sold at a Ch ristie's online sale in September 2023. In fairness, certainty can be a little difficult to achieve from a single image shot in context, rather than multiple images including detailed close‑ups. And even more difficult when that one photo is slightly blurred (perhaps a deliberate, cynical choice by the seller). The fact this photo was taken at an angle, instead of straight‑on, also makes it trickier to assess the correctness of the proportions of the printed areas versus those of the paper substrate, dated signature, and blindstamp. All that said, and despite it being out of focus, I am confident the Lazarides blindstamp (and thus the print itself) is fake: (i) the embossing of the letters looks more rounded than it should; (ii) the letter 'L' seems to be missing the old La zarides logo paint splash; and (iii) most damningly, the overall width of the blindstamp (in relation to the diagonal pattern/linework at the bottom‑left corner of the print image) is too large. __________ In my view, steering well clear of this print would be the wisest move to make. If you know the relevant seller's name, or just their username, please do share it here as well โ along with the sale platform from which the print will most likely be offloaded onto some poor dupe of an In vader fan.
|
|
iamzero
Full Member
Posts โข 9,190
Likes โข 8,542
May 2011
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by iamzero on Feb 19, 2024 7:54:42 GMT 1, Looks to be a deckeled torn edge on the bottom of the one in question too?
Looks to be a deckeled torn edge on the bottom of the one in question too?
|
|
|
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by High Contrast on Feb 19, 2024 7:58:46 GMT 1, Can anyone tell me ( who already owns one and can check) if this is a legitimate invader scream? I canโt work out if there is too much border at the bottom and if the number looks right as the โ5โ looks different to another Iโve seen. Looking forward to the invader expertsโ thoughts? Thanks I take it youโre trying to buy the one on artsy
Seen too many fakes to even bother with these anymore
Can anyone tell me ( who already owns one and can check) if this is a legitimate invader scream? I canโt work out if there is too much border at the bottom and if the number looks right as the โ5โ looks different to another Iโve seen. Looking forward to the invader expertsโ thoughts? Thanks I take it youโre trying to buy the one on artsy Seen too many fakes to even bother with these anymore
|
|
|
|
Wanchope
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,339
Likes โข 1,149
February 2020
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Wanchope on Feb 19, 2024 9:26:50 GMT 1, Yes and more of a sensible price ( unfortunately) ๐คฃ
Yes and more of a sensible price ( unfortunately) ๐คฃ
|
|
JL Broooks
New Member
Posts โข 555
Likes โข 746
February 2017
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by JL Broooks on Feb 19, 2024 12:50:28 GMT 1, Buy the seller. With proof of purchase and in general good provenance these are the very peak of Invader prints.
Buy the seller. With proof of purchase and in general good provenance these are the very peak of Invader prints.
|
|
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by High Contrast on Feb 19, 2024 14:23:40 GMT 1, Buy the seller. With proof of purchase and in general good provenance these are the very peak of Invader prints. I'd only buy from sothebys, christies, phillips or bonhams.
A shame as I think many other potential buyers are put off and this is why they will never reach the high prices that they should.
Buy the seller. With proof of purchase and in general good provenance these are the very peak of Invader prints. I'd only buy from sothebys, christies, phillips or bonhams. A shame as I think many other potential buyers are put off and this is why they will never reach the high prices that they should.
|
|
Lazarus II
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,801
Likes โข 2,427
August 2019
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Lazarus II on Feb 19, 2024 15:29:29 GMT 1, Looks like its all sorted now; Met highlighted the fact that the "L" of Lazarides doesn't have the diagonal slash mark and that nails it.
Anyhow when i looked at a pic of mines to see if it had said slash mark on the L (thankfully it does ) I noted that bottom left corner of the outline of the image is a bit wavy, the outline on the one on this listing is very straight in comparison. Parts of the pattern of the footbridge look very different between both prints as well.
As Invader may say, Game Over.
Looks like its all sorted now; Met highlighted the fact that the "L" of Lazarides doesn't have the diagonal slash mark and that nails it. Anyhow when i looked at a pic of mines to see if it had said slash mark on the L (thankfully it does ) I noted that bottom left corner of the outline of the image is a bit wavy, the outline on the one on this listing is very straight in comparison. Parts of the pattern of the footbridge look very different between both prints as well. As Invader may say, Game Over.
|
|
JL Broooks
New Member
Posts โข 555
Likes โข 746
February 2017
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by JL Broooks on Feb 19, 2024 15:50:28 GMT 1, Looks like its all sorted now; Met highlighted the fact that the "L" of Lazarides doesn't have the diagonal slash mark and that nails it. Anyhow when i looked at a pic of mines to see if it had said slash mark on the L (thankfully it does ) I noted that bottom left corner of the outline of the image is a bit wavy, the outline on the one on this listing is very straight in comparison. Parts of the pattern of the footbridge look very different between both prints as well. As Invader may say, Game Over. Well said. It being a woodcut and with a blindstamp it is much harder to copy (with quality) compared with e.g. giclee prints.
Looks like its all sorted now; Met highlighted the fact that the "L" of Lazarides doesn't have the diagonal slash mark and that nails it. Anyhow when i looked at a pic of mines to see if it had said slash mark on the L (thankfully it does ) I noted that bottom left corner of the outline of the image is a bit wavy, the outline on the one on this listing is very straight in comparison. Parts of the pattern of the footbridge look very different between both prints as well. As Invader may say, Game Over. Well said. It being a woodcut and with a blindstamp it is much harder to copy (with quality) compared with e.g. giclee prints.
|
|
|
gripin
New Member
Posts โข 103
Likes โข 229
December 2015
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by gripin on Feb 20, 2024 10:48:48 GMT 1, A small update from my side. I was also interested and curious about this ebay listing. for me too it was suspicious about it's originality, i asked for the receipt and a coa if available. After no answer for the first time, i asked a second time and got this answer:
"The proof of purchase will be shown to the auction winner prior to payment."
Well, this comes unexpectedโฆ
A small update from my side. I was also interested and curious about this ebay listing. for me too it was suspicious about it's originality, i asked for the receipt and a coa if available. After no answer for the first time, i asked a second time and got this answer: "The proof of purchase will be shown to the auction winner prior to payment." Well, this comes unexpectedโฆ
|
|
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Gucci Da Glacier on Feb 20, 2024 12:03:17 GMT 1, It looks off to me and I remember the seller Charitystars had fake prints listed on eBay in the past.
It looks off to me and I remember the seller Charitystars had fake prints listed on eBay in the past.
|
|
iamzero
Full Member
Posts โข 9,190
Likes โข 8,542
May 2011
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by iamzero on Feb 20, 2024 19:20:11 GMT 1, Just for the record I donโt remember having any COA for mine and mine was bought directly from Laz at the show?
Just for the record I donโt remember having any COA for mine and mine was bought directly from Laz at the show?
|
|
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Lroy on Feb 20, 2024 20:04:51 GMT 1, Just for the record I donโt remember having any COA for mine and mine was bought directly from Laz at the show? Exactly, for Hypnosis, just the mail from Laz, no COA at all. As I said the other day, COA are not, were not, automatics. Invader never sent COA per example. Why everybody wants COA? COA are so easy to reproduce, even these pedant Coa with signature in gold by Laz, for the tenners;.. Easy to reproduce too !
Just for the record I donโt remember having any COA for mine and mine was bought directly from Laz at the show? Exactly, for Hypnosis, just the mail from Laz, no COA at all. As I said the other day, COA are not, were not, automatics. Invader never sent COA per example. Why everybody wants COA? COA are so easy to reproduce, even these pedant Coa with signature in gold by Laz, for the tenners;.. Easy to reproduce too !
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,680
Likes โข 6,288
June 2009
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by met on Feb 20, 2024 21:19:59 GMT 1,
Many thanks for the link and confirmation.
I really should have checked eBay myself before even asking where the print was being sold.
For some reason, I just wrongly assumed it was offered to you directly in a non‑public sale.
The extra photos in that eBay listing, especially the close‑ups, are very helpful.
With this new information, I feel the first two of my previous three arguments* questioning the Lazarides blindstamp are weakened.
But the third argument, regarding the discrepancies in size/width proportions of the blindstamp in relation to the printed image, remains just as strong.
Will try to follow up with a more detailed explanation before the auction ends on Sunday.
But in brief โ even if we ignore the dishonest history and previous form of the seller, Charity Stars* โ I remain convinced the print is a counterfeit Invaded Scream. Albeit a counterfeit that is admittedly rather well executed.
A small update from my side. I was also interested and curious about this ebay listing. for me too it was suspicious about it's originality, i asked for the receipt and a coa if available. After no answer for the first time, i asked a second time and got this answer: "The proof of purchase will be shown to the auction winner prior to payment."
Well, this comes unexpectedโฆ
Cheers for this.
Just so I am clear on the point you're making, what is it about the answer from Charity Stars that is unexpected?
For me, the lack of specificity and apparent evasiveness with that reply are what I would expect from a scammer.
Many thanks for the link and confirmation. I really should have checked eB ay myself before even asking where the print was being sold. For some reason, I just wrongly assumed it was offered to you directly in a non‑public sale. The extra photos in that eB ay listing, especially the close‑ups, are very helpful. With this new information, I feel the first two of my previous three arguments * questioning the Lazarides blindstamp are weakened. But the third argument, regarding the discrepancies in size/width proportions of the blindstamp in relation to the printed image, remains just as strong. Will try to follow up with a more detailed explanation before the auction ends on Sunday. But in brief โ even if we ignore the dishonest history and previous form of the seller, Charity Stars* โ I remain convinced the print is a counterfeit Invaded Scream. Albeit a counterfeit that is admittedly rather well executed. A small update from my side. I was also interested and curious about this ebay listing. for me too it was suspicious about it's originality, i asked for the receipt and a coa if available. After no answer for the first time, i asked a second time and got this answer: "The proof of purchase will be shown to the auction winner prior to payment."
Well, this comes unexpectedโฆ Cheers for this. Just so I am clear on the point you're making, what is it about the answer from Charity Stars that is unexpected? For me, the lack of specificity and apparent evasiveness with that reply are what I would expect from a scammer.
|
|
Lazarus II
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,801
Likes โข 2,427
August 2019
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by Lazarus II on Feb 20, 2024 22:15:52 GMT 1, Anally ive just taken mine off the wall and studied it in detail and there are heaps of minor differences between my print and the pictures on that listing. I dont think they are just down to variations in individual prints. Signature is different too and mines has a definate slash mark on the L and i dont see it at all on this listing.
I bought mines from original owner who bought it on release, no COA, a tiny till receipt from Laz is all he got.
Anally ive just taken mine off the wall and studied it in detail and there are heaps of minor differences between my print and the pictures on that listing. I dont think they are just down to variations in individual prints. Signature is different too and mines has a definate slash mark on the L and i dont see it at all on this listing.
I bought mines from original owner who bought it on release, no COA, a tiny till receipt from Laz is all he got.
|
|
blurp
New Member
Posts โข 629
Likes โข 614
February 2019
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by blurp on Feb 21, 2024 1:16:25 GMT 1, Always enjoy these posts.... mus be a lawyer or some related field IRL or a detective!
Many thanks for the link and confirmation. I really should have checked eB ay myself before even asking where the print was being sold. For some reason, I just wrongly assumed it was offered to you directly in a nonโpublic sale. The extra photos in that eB ay listing, especially the closeโups, are very helpful. With this new information, I feel the first two of my previous three arguments * questioning the Lazarides blindstamp are weakened. But the third argument, regarding the discrepancies in size/width proportions of the blindstamp in relation to the printed image, remains just as strong. Will try to follow up with a more detailed explanation before the auction ends on Sunday. But in brief โ even if we ignore the dishonest history and previous form of the seller, Charity Stars* โ I remain convinced the print is a counterfeit Invaded Scream. Albeit a counterfeit that is admittedly rather well executed. A small update from my side. I was also interested and curious about this ebay listing. for me too it was suspicious about it's originality, i asked for the receipt and a coa if available. After no answer for the first time, i asked a second time and got this answer: "The proof of purchase will be shown to the auction winner prior to payment."
Well, this comes unexpectedโฆ Cheers for this. Just so I am clear on the point you're making, what is it about the answer from Charity Stars that is unexpected? For me, the lack of specificity and apparent evasiveness with that reply are what I would expect from a scammer.
Always enjoy these posts.... mus be a lawyer or some related field IRL or a detective! Many thanks for the link and confirmation. I really should have checked eB ay myself before even asking where the print was being sold. For some reason, I just wrongly assumed it was offered to you directly in a nonโpublic sale. The extra photos in that eB ay listing, especially the closeโups, are very helpful. With this new information, I feel the first two of my previous three arguments * questioning the Lazarides blindstamp are weakened. But the third argument, regarding the discrepancies in size/width proportions of the blindstamp in relation to the printed image, remains just as strong. Will try to follow up with a more detailed explanation before the auction ends on Sunday. But in brief โ even if we ignore the dishonest history and previous form of the seller, Charity Stars* โ I remain convinced the print is a counterfeit Invaded Scream. Albeit a counterfeit that is admittedly rather well executed. A small update from my side. I was also interested and curious about this ebay listing. for me too it was suspicious about it's originality, i asked for the receipt and a coa if available. After no answer for the first time, i asked a second time and got this answer: "The proof of purchase will be shown to the auction winner prior to payment."
Well, this comes unexpectedโฆ Cheers for this. Just so I am clear on the point you're making, what is it about the answer from Charity Stars that is unexpected? For me, the lack of specificity and apparent evasiveness with that reply are what I would expect from a scammer.
|
|
LJCal
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,803
Likes โข 4,213
December 2019
|
: INVADER SCREAM, by LJCal on Feb 21, 2024 1:36:32 GMT 1, You can tell by the quality of the printing it's fake. Looks very much to me like a digital reproduction printed on the wrong tone paper.
You can tell by the quality of the printing it's fake. Looks very much to me like a digital reproduction printed on the wrong tone paper.
|
|