eponte
New Member
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by eponte on Aug 16, 2021 3:21:33 GMT 1, Hello forumites,
I am looking into purchasing some banksy items and looking for guidance.
I like the idea of the uk tenners and also the welcome mat rug, though I am a bit confused as to value.
I see some tenners bring some kind of coa not from banksy but from a guy named laz that worked with him and some don't, I also see welcome mats with banksy provenance from love welcomes. As an outsider I would think the value stands with the mats rather than the uk tenners, or am I missing something ?
Please advice.
Hello forumites,
I am looking into purchasing some banksy items and looking for guidance.
I like the idea of the uk tenners and also the welcome mat rug, though I am a bit confused as to value.
I see some tenners bring some kind of coa not from banksy but from a guy named laz that worked with him and some don't, I also see welcome mats with banksy provenance from love welcomes. As an outsider I would think the value stands with the mats rather than the uk tenners, or am I missing something ?
Please advice.
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eponte
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 11
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by eponte on Aug 16, 2021 4:19:40 GMT 1, Hello forumites, I am looking into purchasing some banksy items and looking for guidance. I like the idea of the uk tenners and also the welcome mat rug, though I am a bit confused as to value. I see some tenners bring some kind of coa not from banksy but from a guy named laz that worked with him and some don't, I also see welcome mats with banksy provenance from love welcomes. As an outsider I would think the value stands with the mats rather than the uk tenners, or am I missing something ? Please advice. Stay away from the tenners . Sign up at love welcomes to get a mat at cost (500 GBP) when they sell more.
Thank you for the reference. I just signed up..I see some mats on ebay at 1.2k and some tenners for a lot more than that...I am a bit baffled, is there something I am missing as to why the ask for the tenners?
Hello forumites, I am looking into purchasing some banksy items and looking for guidance. I like the idea of the uk tenners and also the welcome mat rug, though I am a bit confused as to value. I see some tenners bring some kind of coa not from banksy but from a guy named laz that worked with him and some don't, I also see welcome mats with banksy provenance from love welcomes. As an outsider I would think the value stands with the mats rather than the uk tenners, or am I missing something ? Please advice. Stay away from the tenners . Sign up at love welcomes to get a mat at cost (500 GBP) when they sell more. Thank you for the reference. I just signed up..I see some mats on ebay at 1.2k and some tenners for a lot more than that...I am a bit baffled, is there something I am missing as to why the ask for the tenners? |
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klock
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February 2018
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Venturing into banksy items, by klock on Aug 16, 2021 5:22:31 GMT 1, Stay away from the tenners . Sign up at love welcomes to get a mat at cost (500 GBP) when they sell more. Thank you for the reference. I just signed up..I see some mats on ebay at 1.2k and some tenners for a lot more than that...I am a bit baffled, is there something I am missing as to why the ask for the tenners?
m
Think a lot of people in the forum our left baffled why Tenner's are nearly double in the price. There are 100,000 in circulation and only around 3,500 mats. In my opinion the mat ticks all the boxes - beautifully handcrafted, conveys a powerful message and is a beaut in the flesh.
Failing the mat a Walled off Boxset is a a pretty nice piece if you can get your hands on one. People on the forum from time to time sell them and your looking in the region of a grand upwards.
Stay away from the tenners . Sign up at love welcomes to get a mat at cost (500 GBP) when they sell more. Thank you for the reference. I just signed up..I see some mats on ebay at 1.2k and some tenners for a lot more than that...I am a bit baffled, is there something I am missing as to why the ask for the tenners? m Think a lot of people in the forum our left baffled why Tenner's are nearly double in the price. There are 100,000 in circulation and only around 3,500 mats. In my opinion the mat ticks all the boxes - beautifully handcrafted, conveys a powerful message and is a beaut in the flesh. Failing the mat a Walled off Boxset is a a pretty nice piece if you can get your hands on one. People on the forum from time to time sell them and your looking in the region of a grand upwards. |
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Venturing into banksy items, by Random Ginger Bloke on Aug 16, 2021 9:55:16 GMT 1, The welcome mat is one of my favourite pieces, powerful story and classic banksy twist. Underrated for now but can see these becoming way more desirable down the line. Plus look amazing on the wall
The welcome mat is one of my favourite pieces, powerful story and classic banksy twist. Underrated for now but can see these becoming way more desirable down the line. Plus look amazing on the wall
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irl1
Full Member
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December 2017
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Venturing into banksy items, by irl1 on Aug 16, 2021 11:16:46 GMT 1, Hello forumites, I am looking into purchasing some banksy items and looking for guidance. I like the idea of the uk tenners and also the welcome mat rug, though I am a bit confused as to value. I see some tenners bring some kind of coa not from banksy but from a guy named laz that worked with him and some don't, I also see welcome mats with banksy provenance from love welcomes. As an outsider I would think the value stands with the mats rather than the uk tenners, or am I missing something ? Please advice.
Be careful on here there are chancers everywhere, but overall most users are sound.
If you're buying something and you're not sure ask on here BEFORE you buy
lazemporium.com/products/di-faced-tenner?_pos=1&_sid=53275f5c1&_ss=r
Hello forumites, I am looking into purchasing some banksy items and looking for guidance. I like the idea of the uk tenners and also the welcome mat rug, though I am a bit confused as to value. I see some tenners bring some kind of coa not from banksy but from a guy named laz that worked with him and some don't, I also see welcome mats with banksy provenance from love welcomes. As an outsider I would think the value stands with the mats rather than the uk tenners, or am I missing something ? Please advice. Buy the tenner direct way too many fakes even with Laz COA's Be careful on here there are chancers everywhere, but overall most users are sound. If you're buying something and you're not sure ask on here BEFORE you buy lazemporium.com/products/di-faced-tenner?_pos=1&_sid=53275f5c1&_ss=r |
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eponte
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 11
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by eponte on Aug 16, 2021 18:19:55 GMT 1, This is all great info, thank you.
I am leaning into purchasing a mat off ebay by December if I'm not selected by then, wish me a bit of luck:) I like the tenners but it seems very risky and I can not find any concrete wording on their validity, has there been any word from banksy or about the tenners ?
This is all great info, thank you.
I am leaning into purchasing a mat off ebay by December if I'm not selected by then, wish me a bit of luck:) I like the tenners but it seems very risky and I can not find any concrete wording on their validity, has there been any word from banksy or about the tenners ?
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eponte
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 11
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by eponte on Aug 16, 2021 19:49:20 GMT 1, thank you all for the pm's and help
thank you all for the pm's and help
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Lazarus II
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August 2019
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Venturing into banksy items, by Lazarus II on Aug 16, 2021 22:16:29 GMT 1, This is all great info, thank you. I am leaning into purchasing a mat off ebay by December if I'm not selected by then, wish me a bit of luck:) I like the tenners but it seems very risky and I can not find any concrete wording on their validity, has there been any word from banksy or about the tenners ?
as irl1 says buy a tenner from Laz if you want to ensure its legit. Dont buy from any galleries, online or otherwise, if they offer you their own COA. Some legit tenners come up for sale on here from time to time.
You should spend some time perusing this forum before you buy anything as there are loads of informative threads on Banksy items. By your own admission you are new to this, you barely knew of Lazarides so there will be plenty members on here willing to remove cash from your wallet in exchange for some magic beans.
This is all great info, thank you. I am leaning into purchasing a mat off ebay by December if I'm not selected by then, wish me a bit of luck:) I like the tenners but it seems very risky and I can not find any concrete wording on their validity, has there been any word from banksy or about the tenners ? as irl1 says buy a tenner from Laz if you want to ensure its legit. Dont buy from any galleries, online or otherwise, if they offer you their own COA. Some legit tenners come up for sale on here from time to time. You should spend some time perusing this forum before you buy anything as there are loads of informative threads on Banksy items. By your own admission you are new to this, you barely knew of Lazarides so there will be plenty members on here willing to remove cash from your wallet in exchange for some magic beans. |
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Shoeless
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๐จ๏ธ 1,111
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Member is Online
February 2011
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Venturing into banksy items, by Shoeless on Aug 16, 2021 23:54:01 GMT 1, This is all great info, thank you. I am leaning into purchasing a mat off ebay by December if I'm not selected by then, wish me a bit of luck:) I like the tenners but it seems very risky and I can not find any concrete wording on their validity, has there been any word from banksy or about the tenners ? as irl1 says buy a tenner from Laz if you want to ensure its legit. Dont buy from any galleries, online or otherwise, if they offer you their own COA. Some legit tenners come up for sale on here from time to time. You should spend some time perusing this forum before you buy anything as there are loads of informative threads on Banksy items. By your own admission you are new to this, you barely knew of Lazarides so there will be plenty members on here willing to remove cash from your wallet in exchange for some magic beans.
Wouldnt a Bottleneck framed Tenner be a worthwhile suggestion as well?
I picked one up when they first released them and have thought of selling. Havenโt heard of any issues with the authenticity but would like to know if there are doubts.
This is all great info, thank you. I am leaning into purchasing a mat off ebay by December if I'm not selected by then, wish me a bit of luck:) I like the tenners but it seems very risky and I can not find any concrete wording on their validity, has there been any word from banksy or about the tenners ? as irl1 says buy a tenner from Laz if you want to ensure its legit. Dont buy from any galleries, online or otherwise, if they offer you their own COA. Some legit tenners come up for sale on here from time to time. You should spend some time perusing this forum before you buy anything as there are loads of informative threads on Banksy items. By your own admission you are new to this, you barely knew of Lazarides so there will be plenty members on here willing to remove cash from your wallet in exchange for some magic beans. Wouldnt a Bottleneck framed Tenner be a worthwhile suggestion as well? I picked one up when they first released them and have thought of selling. Havenโt heard of any issues with the authenticity but would like to know if there are doubts. |
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davin550
New Member
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September 2017
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Venturing into banksy items, by davin550 on Aug 17, 2021 1:13:28 GMT 1, Venturing into Banksy art can be a very daunting thing. There are a lot of fakes you have to be careful of. Fake tenners are rampant. For that reason, I've never bought one. If possible, it is best to buy from the source. As others have mentioned, get on the waitlist for a Welcome Mat. You may have to wait a while, as I think it was 18 months or more between the last 2 Welcome Mat drops.
If you choose to buy off the secondary market, look for items that are on the newer side or not cost effective for counterfeiters to duplicate such as:
- Welcome Mat
- Peckham Rock
- Visit Historic Palestine Posters
- Forgive Us Our Tresspassing - Don't Panic posters
Even with the above, you should do your due diligence. Its okay to start out small. Even his smaller endeavors will gain value if given time. Remember, those tenners were originally given out for free.
Venturing into Banksy art can be a very daunting thing. There are a lot of fakes you have to be careful of. Fake tenners are rampant. For that reason, I've never bought one. If possible, it is best to buy from the source. As others have mentioned, get on the waitlist for a Welcome Mat. You may have to wait a while, as I think it was 18 months or more between the last 2 Welcome Mat drops.
If you choose to buy off the secondary market, look for items that are on the newer side or not cost effective for counterfeiters to duplicate such as:
- Welcome Mat
- Peckham Rock
- Visit Historic Palestine Posters
- Forgive Us Our Tresspassing - Don't Panic posters
Even with the above, you should do your due diligence. Its okay to start out small. Even his smaller endeavors will gain value if given time. Remember, those tenners were originally given out for free.
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eponte
New Member
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by eponte on Aug 17, 2021 2:21:36 GMT 1, Thank you all again for the input. I did do a search as recommended by some members and that was a hoard of a read..I most definitely want a mat now 
The uk tenner subject seems to be a iffy one from the PMs I've read and the posts from threads I've visited on here, not sure I would buy it unless I know for sure that it is cannon, approved by banksy like all the other smaller items I am being shown
Thank you all again for the input. I did do a search as recommended by some members and that was a hoard of a read..I most definitely want a mat now The uk tenner subject seems to be a iffy one from the PMs I've read and the posts from threads I've visited on here, not sure I would buy it unless I know for sure that it is cannon, approved by banksy like all the other smaller items I am being shown |
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eponte
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 11
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by eponte on Aug 17, 2021 2:23:03 GMT 1, as irl1 says buy a tenner from Laz if you want to ensure its legit. Dont buy from any galleries, online or otherwise, if they offer you their own COA. Some legit tenners come up for sale on here from time to time. You should spend some time perusing this forum before you buy anything as there are loads of informative threads on Banksy items. By your own admission you are new to this, you barely knew of Lazarides so there will be plenty members on here willing to remove cash from your wallet in exchange for some magic beans. Wouldnt a Bottleneck framed Tenner be a worthwhile suggestion as well? I picked one up when they first released them and have thought of selling. Havenโt heard of any issues with the authenticity but would like to know if there are doubts.
I also saw this version, what is the difference between this version and Laz's?
as irl1 says buy a tenner from Laz if you want to ensure its legit. Dont buy from any galleries, online or otherwise, if they offer you their own COA. Some legit tenners come up for sale on here from time to time. You should spend some time perusing this forum before you buy anything as there are loads of informative threads on Banksy items. By your own admission you are new to this, you barely knew of Lazarides so there will be plenty members on here willing to remove cash from your wallet in exchange for some magic beans. Wouldnt a Bottleneck framed Tenner be a worthwhile suggestion as well? I picked one up when they first released them and have thought of selling. Havenโt heard of any issues with the authenticity but would like to know if there are doubts. I also saw this version, what is the difference between this version and Laz's? |
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
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Venturing into banksy items, by Lazarus II on Aug 17, 2021 5:00:24 GMT 1, I also saw this version, what is the difference between this version and Laz's? Laz sends a tenner and a worthless letter. There is no way to show the tenner and the letter are tied together in any way . Just one of the many tenners in his closet and a worthless letter with his dumb thumb print on it.[brBottleneck)comes in a holder with some holograms or whatever. It's been seen as faked on the market already.
i bought a framed tenner from Gallart which was released aroubd the same time as Bottleneckโs tenner; its a bit disengenious to say its a holder but each to their own.
Id have no problems buying one of these secondary if it was from original buyer and came with receipt and matching letter and hologram. It was clear that these were from Laz and when you look at the tenner itself it is identical to a tenner you get on a COA except its not ripped in half๐
I also saw this version, what is the difference between this version and Laz's? Laz sends a tenner and a worthless letter. There is no way to show the tenner and the letter are tied together in any way . Just one of the many tenners in his closet and a worthless letter with his dumb thumb print on it.[brBottleneck)comes in a holder with some holograms or whatever. It's been seen as faked on the market already. i bought a framed tenner from Gallart which was released aroubd the same time as Bottleneckโs tenner; its a bit disengenious to say its a holder but each to their own. Id have no problems buying one of these secondary if it was from original buyer and came with receipt and matching letter and hologram. It was clear that these were from Laz and when you look at the tenner itself it is identical to a tenner you get on a COA except its not ripped in half๐ |
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
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August 2019
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Venturing into banksy items, by Lazarus II on Aug 17, 2021 5:04:55 GMT 1, as irl1 says buy a tenner from Laz if you want to ensure its legit. Dont buy from any galleries, online or otherwise, if they offer you their own COA. Some legit tenners come up for sale on here from time to time. You should spend some time perusing this forum before you buy anything as there are loads of informative threads on Banksy items. By your own admission you are new to this, you barely knew of Lazarides so there will be plenty members on here willing to remove cash from your wallet in exchange for some magic beans. Wouldnt a Bottleneck framed Tenner be a worthwhile suggestion as well? I picked one up when they first released them and have thought of selling. Havenโt heard of any issues with the authenticity but would like to know if there are doubts.
yes, i would buy a Bottleneck or Gallart tenner.
as irl1 says buy a tenner from Laz if you want to ensure its legit. Dont buy from any galleries, online or otherwise, if they offer you their own COA. Some legit tenners come up for sale on here from time to time. You should spend some time perusing this forum before you buy anything as there are loads of informative threads on Banksy items. By your own admission you are new to this, you barely knew of Lazarides so there will be plenty members on here willing to remove cash from your wallet in exchange for some magic beans. Wouldnt a Bottleneck framed Tenner be a worthwhile suggestion as well? I picked one up when they first released them and have thought of selling. Havenโt heard of any issues with the authenticity but would like to know if there are doubts. yes, i would buy a Bottleneck or Gallart tenner. |
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damien87
New Member
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Venturing into banksy items, by damien87 on Aug 17, 2021 10:20:00 GMT 1, Wouldnt a Bottleneck framed Tenner be a worthwhile suggestion as well? I picked one up when they first released them and have thought of selling. Havenโt heard of any issues with the authenticity but would like to know if there are doubts. yes, i would buy a Bottleneck or Gallart tenner.
Wouldnt a Bottleneck framed Tenner be a worthwhile suggestion as well? I picked one up when they first released them and have thought of selling. Havenโt heard of any issues with the authenticity but would like to know if there are doubts. yes, i would buy a Bottleneck or Gallart tenner. |
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damien87
New Member
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April 2019
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Venturing into banksy items, by damien87 on Aug 17, 2021 10:22:37 GMT 1, Hi all I have my Di Faced Tenner for sale purchased directly from Steve Lazarides with his COA. Im open to offers, if you're interested pm me.
Cheers, Damien
Hi all I have my Di Faced Tenner for sale purchased directly from Steve Lazarides with his COA. Im open to offers, if you're interested pm me.
Cheers, Damien
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rosac
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Venturing into banksy items, by rosac on Aug 17, 2021 10:58:32 GMT 1, I have a genuine banksy soup cans purchased from POW with original tube and receipt. Still Unopened so will open it for inspection before sale. DM
I have a genuine banksy soup cans purchased from POW with original tube and receipt. Still Unopened so will open it for inspection before sale. DM
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handy
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August 2014
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Venturing into banksy items, by handy on Aug 17, 2021 11:08:44 GMT 1, Hi eponte,
Note that Steve Lazarides Di Faced Tenners are currently available on his website at the "special price" of
1750 GBP for the month of August. Probably the most reliable and efficient way to venture into the tenners.
The trend for the moment is that the tenners "sell out" on the website then get re-stocked. Who knows how long that trend will last...
I understand there are fake Laz CoAs now so even have to be careful with that urbanartassociation.com/thread/167365/laz-banksy-di-faced-tenner
Many fantastic and reliable members here but there's no reason why a dodgy ebay seller couldn't create a login and try to sell something on here. Just be careful. Low post count not a good sign, etc
Hi eponte, Note that Steve Lazarides Di Faced Tenners are currently available on his website at the "special price" of 1750 GBP for the month of August. Probably the most reliable and efficient way to venture into the tenners. The trend for the moment is that the tenners "sell out" on the website then get re-stocked. Who knows how long that trend will last... I understand there are fake Laz CoAs now so even have to be careful with that urbanartassociation.com/thread/167365/laz-banksy-di-faced-tennerMany fantastic and reliable members here but there's no reason why a dodgy ebay seller couldn't create a login and try to sell something on here. Just be careful. Low post count not a good sign, etc |
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rosac
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,894
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July 2015
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Venturing into banksy items, by rosac on Aug 17, 2021 11:55:27 GMT 1, I have a genuine banksy soup cans purchased from POW with original tube and receipt. Still Unopened so will open it for inspection before sale. DM
Sorry this is the multi can poster Iโm talking about to be clear
I have a genuine banksy soup cans purchased from POW with original tube and receipt. Still Unopened so will open it for inspection before sale. DM Sorry this is the multi can poster Iโm talking about to be clear |
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mlyelmk
New Member
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November 2020
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Venturing into banksy items, by mlyelmk on Aug 17, 2021 13:31:20 GMT 1, I'm still looking to trade my 2 peckham rocks ! Happy to discuss with a collector who wants to swap these
I'm still looking to trade my 2 peckham rocks ! Happy to discuss with a collector who wants to swap these
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eponte
New Member
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by eponte on Aug 17, 2021 21:34:48 GMT 1, Thank you all.
This turned out a nice little thread, thanks for the info.
I am def gunning for the mat,and just can't get my head around the uk tenner situation.. I am not that sure, it's a considerable amount of money to put into something that even with some type of letter no one can tell if it is legit or limited/from a series or from banksy himself...does banksy's office validate these if I were to purchase and inquire?
Thank you all.
This turned out a nice little thread, thanks for the info.
I am def gunning for the mat,and just can't get my head around the uk tenner situation.. I am not that sure, it's a considerable amount of money to put into something that even with some type of letter no one can tell if it is legit or limited/from a series or from banksy himself...does banksy's office validate these if I were to purchase and inquire?
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eponte
New Member
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by eponte on Aug 17, 2021 21:37:39 GMT 1, yes, i would buy a Bottleneck or Gallart tenner.
I am thinking of buying one and possibly asking Banksy's office for authentication, is this something you've tried before?
yes, i would buy a Bottleneck or Gallart tenner. I am thinking of buying one and possibly asking Banksy's office for authentication, is this something you've tried before? |
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irl1
Full Member
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December 2017
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Venturing into banksy items, by irl1 on Aug 17, 2021 21:49:57 GMT 1, Thank you all. This turned out a nice little thread, thanks for the info. I am def gunning for the mat,and just can't get my head around the uk tenner situation.. I am not that sure, it's a considerable amount of money to put into something that even with some type of letter no one can tell if it is legit or limited/from a series or from banksy himself...does banksy's office validate these if I were to purchase and inquire?
No only these below
www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/banksy-online/banksy-di-faced-tenners
Thank you all. This turned out a nice little thread, thanks for the info. I am def gunning for the mat,and just can't get my head around the uk tenner situation.. I am not that sure, it's a considerable amount of money to put into something that even with some type of letter no one can tell if it is legit or limited/from a series or from banksy himself...does banksy's office validate these if I were to purchase and inquire? No only these below www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2020/banksy-online/banksy-di-faced-tenners |
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jarw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 33
๐๐ป 13
August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by jarw on Aug 17, 2021 21:56:24 GMT 1, I'm familiar with Di Faced Tenners and have seen them go up in value over the years. Laz is the real deal and if it's bought through him and/or authenticated by him you are good to go for sure. I don't know much about the mats so sorry i can't help you there...
I'm familiar with Di Faced Tenners and have seen them go up in value over the years. Laz is the real deal and if it's bought through him and/or authenticated by him you are good to go for sure. I don't know much about the mats so sorry i can't help you there...
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jarw
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 33
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August 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by jarw on Aug 17, 2021 22:13:28 GMT 1, disagree with that statement about not buying from Laz cause they are not authenitcated....simply not true...i have bought from him and have the authentification...i'm holding for years.....think they'll be worth a lot more
disagree with that statement about not buying from Laz cause they are not authenitcated....simply not true...i have bought from him and have the authentification...i'm holding for years.....think they'll be worth a lot more
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u%hdjfka c
Junior Member
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January 2021
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Venturing into banksy items, by u%hdjfka c on Aug 17, 2021 22:39:48 GMT 1, disagree with that statement about not buying from Laz cause they are not authenitcated....simply not true...i have bought from him and have the authentification...i'm holding for years.....think they'll be worth a lot more
What you have is a letter of provenance
And if it's one of them worded like this:
"I can confirm that this Di faced tenner is from my personal collection and once belonged to me"
Where does it say it's an authentic Di faced tenner produced by the artist Banksy?
disagree with that statement about not buying from Laz cause they are not authenitcated....simply not true...i have bought from him and have the authentification...i'm holding for years.....think they'll be worth a lot more Only Pest Control can authenticate Banksy What you have is a letter of provenance And if it's one of them worded like this: "I can confirm that this Di faced tenner is from my personal collection and once belonged to me" Where does it say it's an authentic Di faced tenner produced by the artist Banksy? |
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JW
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Venturing into banksy items, by JW on Aug 17, 2021 22:49:53 GMT 1,
The sloppy attention to detail on that site doesn't do your narrative any favours. It states that "Banksy admitted to forging a total of ยฃ100 million of notes".
Ahhh, no he didn't. He said "ยฃ1 million".
But anyway, no doubt plenty are in circulation, but if we take the ยฃ1 million comment at face value and also the comment that Banksy still owns most of them - can there really be 100,000 "at a minimum" out there?
Do you have a more reputable source?
The sloppy attention to detail on that site doesn't do your narrative any favours. It states that "Banksy admitted to forging a total of ยฃ100 million of notes". Ahhh, no he didn't. He said "ยฃ1 million". But anyway, no doubt plenty are in circulation, but if we take the ยฃ1 million comment at face value and also the comment that Banksy still owns most of them - can there really be 100,000 "at a minimum" out there? Do you have a more reputable source? |
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