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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by urbanauctioneer on Nov 19, 2021 10:25:16 GMT 1, In my experience as an auctioneer, commercial works, i.e prints or paintings made by Banksy for sale without a PC cert tend to go for almost half what they should had they got a cert. How do we all feel about his non-commercial or street works coming in for sale? Im not talking about things that have been chiselled off a wall, but things like his sculptures etc providing you have full and clear provenance? I think you need to make a clear distinction between works capable of qualifying for a COA (commercial works) that haven't yet been certified, and those pieces incapable of being certified (street pieces). Commercial pieces, GDP works, without COAs have sold recently through Tate Modern. I don't think they were 50% less than they would be with the COA. I guess we'll never know because there were no certified versions to compare prices with. Sale Ends V2 were fetching decent prices without COAs. When COAs became available the market had jumped so a like for like comparison cannot be made there either. Street pieces tend to go way below commercial pieces primarily because the artist won't ever confirm it's his work. Prices reflect that.
My question was more to do with his street pieces, specifically sculptures, how comfortable do you think people would be buying one? PC will not issue any certificates for any street works, however if I had correspondence from PC confirming it was a Banksy, but with no di faced tenner, would that be enough?
In my experience as an auctioneer, commercial works, i.e prints or paintings made by Banksy for sale without a PC cert tend to go for almost half what they should had they got a cert. How do we all feel about his non-commercial or street works coming in for sale? Im not talking about things that have been chiselled off a wall, but things like his sculptures etc providing you have full and clear provenance? I think you need to make a clear distinction between works capable of qualifying for a COA (commercial works) that haven't yet been certified, and those pieces incapable of being certified (street pieces). Commercial pieces, GDP works, without COAs have sold recently through Tate Modern. I don't think they were 50% less than they would be with the COA. I guess we'll never know because there were no certified versions to compare prices with. Sale Ends V2 were fetching decent prices without COAs. When COAs became available the market had jumped so a like for like comparison cannot be made there either. Street pieces tend to go way below commercial pieces primarily because the artist won't ever confirm it's his work. Prices reflect that. My question was more to do with his street pieces, specifically sculptures, how comfortable do you think people would be buying one? PC will not issue any certificates for any street works, however if I had correspondence from PC confirming it was a Banksy, but with no di faced tenner, would that be enough? |
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withnail69
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 532
๐๐ป 391
April 2018
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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by withnail69 on Nov 19, 2021 16:30:28 GMT 1, It depends. Its come to my attention that some art dealers pay Pest Control a very large annual sum for the privilege of selling/rehoming/changing ownership of banksy prints as well as getting COA. If a dealer was buying it and had this access to PC they could buy at discount then get it authenticated pretty quickly and flip it
It depends. Its come to my attention that some art dealers pay Pest Control a very large annual sum for the privilege of selling/rehoming/changing ownership of banksy prints as well as getting COA. If a dealer was buying it and had this access to PC they could buy at discount then get it authenticated pretty quickly and flip it
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silvermyn
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,612
๐๐ป 781
April 2008
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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by silvermyn on Nov 20, 2021 10:00:22 GMT 1, I think you need to make a clear distinction between works capable of qualifying for a COA (commercial works) that haven't yet been certified, and those pieces incapable of being certified (street pieces). Commercial pieces, GDP works, without COAs have sold recently through Tate Modern. I don't think they were 50% less than they would be with the COA. I guess we'll never know because there were no certified versions to compare prices with. Sale Ends V2 were fetching decent prices without COAs. When COAs became available the market had jumped so a like for like comparison cannot be made there either. Street pieces tend to go way below commercial pieces primarily because the artist won't ever confirm it's his work. Prices reflect that. My question was more to do with his street pieces, specifically sculptures, how comfortable do you think people would be buying one? PC will not issue any certificates for any street works, however if I had correspondence from PC confirming it was a Banksy, but with no di faced tenner, would that be enough?
My guess is that you are probably back to the situation where you have an street piece that the artist is not willing to "officially" confirm as being his work. An email from PC offers some comfort but from a buyer's perspective an email is an easy thing to construct or fake.
The only other means of authenticating a work is to have pictures of the work in situ with unique marks corresponding to the piece you have. That plus the email may convince a buyer but I doubt they will offer the high ticket price you would be looking for.
Have you spoken to Robin Barton? He deals in pieces that get removed from walls that PC will in no way authenticate. There's a link on him below.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Barton
As an auctioneer, you should probably avoid doing anything with this sculpture publicly. You're in the murky world of dealing with work the artist didn't want to be taken or sold on. If you want any sort of working relationship with PC then try and help the seller by pointing him/her in the right direction and don't tar your name with the same brush that Robin has, unless you want to go down that road. F.Y.I. Robin's not very popular on here.
I think you need to make a clear distinction between works capable of qualifying for a COA (commercial works) that haven't yet been certified, and those pieces incapable of being certified (street pieces). Commercial pieces, GDP works, without COAs have sold recently through Tate Modern. I don't think they were 50% less than they would be with the COA. I guess we'll never know because there were no certified versions to compare prices with. Sale Ends V2 were fetching decent prices without COAs. When COAs became available the market had jumped so a like for like comparison cannot be made there either. Street pieces tend to go way below commercial pieces primarily because the artist won't ever confirm it's his work. Prices reflect that. My question was more to do with his street pieces, specifically sculptures, how comfortable do you think people would be buying one? PC will not issue any certificates for any street works, however if I had correspondence from PC confirming it was a Banksy, but with no di faced tenner, would that be enough? That's interesting. I've not heard of PC confirming in writing that a work is a genuine Banksy but then refusing to issue a COA. Normally they just say that they can't confirm whether it is or isn't a Banksy. My guess is that you are probably back to the situation where you have an street piece that the artist is not willing to "officially" confirm as being his work. An email from PC offers some comfort but from a buyer's perspective an email is an easy thing to construct or fake. The only other means of authenticating a work is to have pictures of the work in situ with unique marks corresponding to the piece you have. That plus the email may convince a buyer but I doubt they will offer the high ticket price you would be looking for. Have you spoken to Robin Barton? He deals in pieces that get removed from walls that PC will in no way authenticate. There's a link on him below. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_BartonAs an auctioneer, you should probably avoid doing anything with this sculpture publicly. You're in the murky world of dealing with work the artist didn't want to be taken or sold on. If you want any sort of working relationship with PC then try and help the seller by pointing him/her in the right direction and don't tar your name with the same brush that Robin has, unless you want to go down that road. F.Y.I. Robin's not very popular on here. |
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vandamme
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 297
๐๐ป 305
May 2019
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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by vandamme on Nov 20, 2021 10:51:47 GMT 1, Robin Bartin as in Robin Hood Gallery. A street pieces which has been sold through the gallery was the slave labour piece. Didnโt Ron English buy this piece? Ron is pretty tight with Banksy so Iโm guessing Banksy must have been cool about this piece being sold. Or maybe the piece was not sold at all and agreement between the two were made.
Either way if Banksy was ok about a particular street piece being sold we would know about it and Iโm sure Banksy would decide this prior to any street piece creation.
My question was more to do with his street pieces, specifically sculptures, how comfortable do you think people would be buying one? PC will not issue any certificates for any street works, however if I had correspondence from PC confirming it was a Banksy, but with no di faced tenner, would that be enough? That's interesting.ย I've not heard of PC confirming in writing that a work is a genuine Banksy but then refusing to issue a COA.ย Normally they just say that they can't confirm whether it is or isn't a Banksy. My guess is that you are probably back to the situation where you have an street piece that the artist is not willing to "officially" confirm as being his work.ย An email from PC offers some comfort but from a buyer's perspective an email is an easy thing to construct or fake. The only other means of authenticating a work is to have pictures of the work in situ with unique marks corresponding to the piece you have. That plus the email may convince a buyer but I doubt they will offer the high ticket price you would be looking for. Have you spoken to Robin Barton?ย He deals in pieces that get removed from walls that PC will in no way authenticate.ย There's a link on him below. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_BartonAs an auctioneer, you should probably avoid doing anything with this sculpture publicly.ย You're in the murky world of dealing with work the artist didn't want to be taken or sold on.ย If you want any sort of working relationship with PC then try and help the seller by pointing him/her in the right direction and don't tar your name with the same brush that Robin has, unless you want to go down that road.ย F.Y.I. Robin's not very popular on here.
Robin Bartin as in Robin Hood Gallery. A street pieces which has been sold through the gallery was the slave labour piece. Didnโt Ron English buy this piece? Ron is pretty tight with Banksy so Iโm guessing Banksy must have been cool about this piece being sold. Or maybe the piece was not sold at all and agreement between the two were made. Either way if Banksy was ok about a particular street piece being sold we would know about it and Iโm sure Banksy would decide this prior to any street piece creation. My question was more to do with his street pieces, specifically sculptures, how comfortable do you think people would be buying one? PC will not issue any certificates for any street works, however if I had correspondence from PC confirming it was a Banksy, but with no di faced tenner, would that be enough? That's interesting.ย I've not heard of PC confirming in writing that a work is a genuine Banksy but then refusing to issue a COA.ย Normally they just say that they can't confirm whether it is or isn't a Banksy. My guess is that you are probably back to the situation where you have an street piece that the artist is not willing to "officially" confirm as being his work.ย An email from PC offers some comfort but from a buyer's perspective an email is an easy thing to construct or fake. The only other means of authenticating a work is to have pictures of the work in situ with unique marks corresponding to the piece you have. That plus the email may convince a buyer but I doubt they will offer the high ticket price you would be looking for. Have you spoken to Robin Barton?ย He deals in pieces that get removed from walls that PC will in no way authenticate.ย There's a link on him below. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_BartonAs an auctioneer, you should probably avoid doing anything with this sculpture publicly.ย You're in the murky world of dealing with work the artist didn't want to be taken or sold on.ย If you want any sort of working relationship with PC then try and help the seller by pointing him/her in the right direction and don't tar your name with the same brush that Robin has, unless you want to go down that road.ย F.Y.I. Robin's not very popular on here. |
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silvermyn
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,612
๐๐ป 781
April 2008
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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by silvermyn on Nov 20, 2021 12:51:52 GMT 1, Robin Bartin as in Robin Hood Gallery. A street pieces which has been sold through the gallery was the slave labour piece. Didnโt Ron English buy this piece? Ron is pretty tight with Banksy so Iโm guessing Banksy must have been cool about this piece being sold. Or maybe the piece was not sold at all and agreement between the two were made. Either way if Banksy was ok about a particular street piece being sold we would know about it and Iโm sure Banksy would decide this prior to any street piece creation. That's interesting. I've not heard of PC confirming in writing that a work is a genuine Banksy but then refusing to issue a COA. Normally they just say that they can't confirm whether it is or isn't a Banksy. My guess is that you are probably back to the situation where you have an street piece that the artist is not willing to "officially" confirm as being his work. An email from PC offers some comfort but from a buyer's perspective an email is an easy thing to construct or fake. The only other means of authenticating a work is to have pictures of the work in situ with unique marks corresponding to the piece you have. That plus the email may convince a buyer but I doubt they will offer the high ticket price you would be looking for. Have you spoken to Robin Barton? He deals in pieces that get removed from walls that PC will in no way authenticate. There's a link on him below. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_BartonAs an auctioneer, you should probably avoid doing anything with this sculpture publicly. You're in the murky world of dealing with work the artist didn't want to be taken or sold on. If you want any sort of working relationship with PC then try and help the seller by pointing him/her in the right direction and don't tar your name with the same brush that Robin has, unless you want to go down that road. F.Y.I. Robin's not very popular on here.
hyperallergic.com/471758/ron-english-plans-to-whitewash-a-730000-banksy-and-then-sell-it/
In fairness there must be very few people out there looking to spend ยฃ100,000s on a Banksy original street piece just so they can destroy it.
Robin Bartin as in Robin Hood Gallery. A street pieces which has been sold through the gallery was the slave labour piece. Didnโt Ron English buy this piece? Ron is pretty tight with Banksy so Iโm guessing Banksy must have been cool about this piece being sold. Or maybe the piece was not sold at all and agreement between the two were made. Either way if Banksy was ok about a particular street piece being sold we would know about it and Iโm sure Banksy would decide this prior to any street piece creation. That's interesting. I've not heard of PC confirming in writing that a work is a genuine Banksy but then refusing to issue a COA. Normally they just say that they can't confirm whether it is or isn't a Banksy. My guess is that you are probably back to the situation where you have an street piece that the artist is not willing to "officially" confirm as being his work. An email from PC offers some comfort but from a buyer's perspective an email is an easy thing to construct or fake. The only other means of authenticating a work is to have pictures of the work in situ with unique marks corresponding to the piece you have. That plus the email may convince a buyer but I doubt they will offer the high ticket price you would be looking for. Have you spoken to Robin Barton? He deals in pieces that get removed from walls that PC will in no way authenticate. There's a link on him below. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_BartonAs an auctioneer, you should probably avoid doing anything with this sculpture publicly. You're in the murky world of dealing with work the artist didn't want to be taken or sold on. If you want any sort of working relationship with PC then try and help the seller by pointing him/her in the right direction and don't tar your name with the same brush that Robin has, unless you want to go down that road. F.Y.I. Robin's not very popular on here. Presumably you are aware that Ron English didn't purchase that piece because he wanted to own a street piece by Banksy. He bought it so that he could destroy it and make a point about street pieces being privatised. hyperallergic.com/471758/ron-english-plans-to-whitewash-a-730000-banksy-and-then-sell-it/In fairness there must be very few people out there looking to spend ยฃ100,000s on a Banksy original street piece just so they can destroy it. |
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vandamme
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 297
๐๐ป 305
May 2019
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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by vandamme on Nov 20, 2021 13:19:53 GMT 1, Yes I knew about that but actually forgot this part until you just reminded me.
It was a very expensive stunt if Banksy was not involved, although Ron has probably done very well out of his art so could afford it. Also great PR at the time.
Robin Bartin as in Robin Hood Gallery. A street pieces which has been sold through the gallery was the slave labour piece. Didnโt Ron English buy this piece? Ron is pretty tight with Banksy so Iโm guessing Banksy must have been cool about this piece being sold. Or maybe the piece was not sold at all and agreement between the two were made. Either way if Banksy was ok about a particular street piece being sold we would know about it and Iโm sure Banksy would decide this prior to any street piece creation. Presumably you are aware that Ron English didn't purchase that piece because he wanted to own a street piece by Banksy.ย He bought it so that he could destroy it and make a point about street pieces being privatised. hyperallergic.com/471758/ron-english-plans-to-whitewash-a-730000-banksy-and-then-sell-it/In fairness there must be very few people out there looking to spend ยฃ100,000s on a Banksy original street piece just so they can destroy it.
Yes I knew about that but actually forgot this part until you just reminded me. It was a very expensive stunt if Banksy was not involved, although Ron has probably done very well out of his art so could afford it. Also great PR at the time. Robin Bartin as in Robin Hood Gallery. A street pieces which has been sold through the gallery was the slave labour piece. Didnโt Ron English buy this piece? Ron is pretty tight with Banksy so Iโm guessing Banksy must have been cool about this piece being sold. Or maybe the piece was not sold at all and agreement between the two were made. Either way if Banksy was ok about a particular street piece being sold we would know about it and Iโm sure Banksy would decide this prior to any street piece creation. Presumably you are aware that Ron English didn't purchase that piece because he wanted to own a street piece by Banksy.ย He bought it so that he could destroy it and make a point about street pieces being privatised. hyperallergic.com/471758/ron-english-plans-to-whitewash-a-730000-banksy-and-then-sell-it/In fairness there must be very few people out there looking to spend ยฃ100,000s on a Banksy original street piece just so they can destroy it. |
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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by Street Art Collect on Nov 20, 2021 16:59:01 GMT 1, ron please don't destroy it and offer it to me! I would take care of destroying it after having enjoyed it for a few years in my living room, I promise 
ron please don't destroy it and offer it to me! I would take care of destroying it after having enjoyed it for a few years in my living room, I promise |
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vandamme
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 297
๐๐ป 305
May 2019
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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by vandamme on Nov 20, 2021 17:31:37 GMT 1, Strangely we donโt have much discussion about Ron English on the forum. How is his career?
Strangely we donโt have much discussion about Ron English on the forum. How is his career?
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Signed Banksy Purchase with no PC, by Street Art Collect on Nov 20, 2021 21:11:39 GMT 1, ron career, having bought the banksy at julien's auctions!
you know everything
ron career, having bought the banksy at julien's auctions!
you know everything
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