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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Lord Lucas Roham on Jan 29, 2022 14:11:09 GMT 1, So they broke the law with The Currency? I am sure they have people smarter than us advising them. Also let me give you this scenario. I buy the NFT for 3.5k, I sell for 6k, it's then resold for 15k, then resold for 10k, then 18k. Finally the Japense based buyer wants the physical and exchanges. Why would he need to pay 20% UK Vat on the initial 3.5k? Say he wanted it delivered to the UK. Why would he need to pay the 20%? Once its an NFT it's essentially a black hole. I don't know what happened with your physical Currency purchase. Perhaps they made an error. Or perhaps you payed VAT originally. If you are now talking about The Empresses, then an overseas buyer would not be paying UK VAT. They would pay Heni 3.5K (retail excluding VAT) and then pay the import VAT/sales tax in their own country when it passes through customs.
No one paid VAT in the UK for The Currency. Nobody. It wasn't an error or mistake.
You're thinking with a traditional tax accountant's head on here. NFTs are a grey area. Heni know EXACTLY what they are doing.
So they broke the law with The Currency? I am sure they have people smarter than us advising them. Also let me give you this scenario. I buy the NFT for 3.5k, I sell for 6k, it's then resold for 15k, then resold for 10k, then 18k. Finally the Japense based buyer wants the physical and exchanges. Why would he need to pay 20% UK Vat on the initial 3.5k? Say he wanted it delivered to the UK. Why would he need to pay the 20%? Once its an NFT it's essentially a black hole. I don't know what happened with your physical Currency purchase. Perhaps they made an error. Or perhaps you payed VAT originally. If you are now talking about The Empresses, then an overseas buyer would not be paying UK VAT. They would pay Heni 3.5K (retail excluding VAT) and then pay the import VAT/sales tax in their own country when it passes through customs. No one paid VAT in the UK for The Currency. Nobody. It wasn't an error or mistake. You're thinking with a traditional tax accountant's head on here. NFTs are a grey area. Heni know EXACTLY what they are doing. |
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J0NNY
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by J0NNY on Jan 29, 2022 14:11:41 GMT 1, I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history
Buy it if you like it and can afford, don’t buy it if not.
I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history We hear this uninformed waffle every time Heni x Hirst releases anything. Buy it if you like it and can afford, don’t buy it if not. |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Lord Lucas Roham on Jan 29, 2022 14:12:09 GMT 1, So they broke the law with The Currency? I am sure they have people smarter than us advising them. Also let me give you this scenario. I buy the NFT for 3.5k, I sell for 6k, it's then resold for 15k, then resold for 10k, then 18k. Finally the Japense based buyer wants the physical and exchanges. Why would he need to pay 20% UK Vat on the initial 3.5k? Say he wanted it delivered to the UK. Why would he need to pay the 20%? Once its an NFT it's essentially a black hole. who would spend 18k on an edition of at least 10k prints?? 😅😂😅
It was hypothetical. Also, 10k? You got a crystal ball?
So they broke the law with The Currency? I am sure they have people smarter than us advising them. Also let me give you this scenario. I buy the NFT for 3.5k, I sell for 6k, it's then resold for 15k, then resold for 10k, then 18k. Finally the Japense based buyer wants the physical and exchanges. Why would he need to pay 20% UK Vat on the initial 3.5k? Say he wanted it delivered to the UK. Why would he need to pay the 20%? Once its an NFT it's essentially a black hole. who would spend 18k on an edition of at least 10k prints?? 😅😂😅 It was hypothetical. Also, 10k? You got a crystal ball? |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Lord Lucas Roham on Jan 29, 2022 14:13:14 GMT 1, I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history
I remember these type of comments on The Virtues thread and The Currency thread. Embarrassing 😳
I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history I remember these type of comments on The Virtues thread and The Currency thread. Embarrassing 😳 |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by elthorno84 on Jan 29, 2022 14:15:11 GMT 1, I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history
Completely agree - apart from the bit about fruitful and forever which are ghastly
I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history Completely agree - apart from the bit about fruitful and forever which are ghastly |
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pema
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by pema on Jan 29, 2022 14:15:28 GMT 1, I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history I remember these type of comments on The Virtues thread and The Currency thread. Embarrassing 😳
Well, time will tell...Hirst and Heni should have made it a 100 piece lottery. This is a gamble that won't pay off - neither for them or others
I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history I remember these type of comments on The Virtues thread and The Currency thread. Embarrassing 😳 Well, time will tell...Hirst and Heni should have made it a 100 piece lottery. This is a gamble that won't pay off - neither for them or others |
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Poster Bob
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Poster Bob on Jan 29, 2022 14:37:12 GMT 1, Suspicious of what exactly? The consistently high results they achieve at auction? Suspicious of Hirst’s associates bidding them up? Has that blue edition sold that well consistently?
Everything on this board is a conspiracy. Sometimes I think I am looking at a Flat Earth or Take Back the Steal forum. If you take the time to look at the auction resuts for The Aspects they are consistent and high. Although, I am ignoring initial results when they had yet to mature which I think is the right thing to do.
Suspicious of what exactly? The consistently high results they achieve at auction? Suspicious of Hirst’s associates bidding them up? Has that blue edition sold that well consistently? Everything on this board is a conspiracy. Sometimes I think I am looking at a Flat Earth or Take Back the Steal forum. If you take the time to look at the auction resuts for The Aspects they are consistent and high. Although, I am ignoring initial results when they had yet to mature which I think is the right thing to do. |
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gc91
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by gc91 on Jan 29, 2022 14:40:32 GMT 1, Do you guys think these prints will hold up well the prices? From what I know about Hirst, usually the Heni prints do not go below the purchase price over time. Thanks
Do you guys think these prints will hold up well the prices? From what I know about Hirst, usually the Heni prints do not go below the purchase price over time. Thanks
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teabaggins
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by teabaggins on Jan 29, 2022 15:14:41 GMT 1, So you're basically paying up front and getting the receipt, they don't have to print and ship it, you don't have to store it. Anytime between now and Feb 2025, if you remember, you can redeem it and they'll print and send the item. In the meantime, if you want to sell the receipt, that's also ok, but the receipt is likely tied to the value of the physical work in a way NFT's usually aren't ? Also the likelyhood of thousands and thousands of buyers who are going to park this and then forget are huge. It's soooo loaded in Heni/DH's favour as to be almost a con. At this point, it feels like 95% business and 5% art.
Hold in. ”thousands and thousands” of people are going to “forget” they have a $3500 print in storage? You can possibly believe that’s true. It’s not exactly a $10 Starbucks gift card
So you're basically paying up front and getting the receipt, they don't have to print and ship it, you don't have to store it. Anytime between now and Feb 2025, if you remember, you can redeem it and they'll print and send the item. In the meantime, if you want to sell the receipt, that's also ok, but the receipt is likely tied to the value of the physical work in a way NFT's usually aren't ? Also the likelyhood of thousands and thousands of buyers who are going to park this and then forget are huge. It's soooo loaded in Heni/DH's favour as to be almost a con. At this point, it feels like 95% business and 5% art. Hold in. ”thousands and thousands” of people are going to “forget” they have a $3500 print in storage? You can possibly believe that’s true. It’s not exactly a $10 Starbucks gift card |
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Fairxat
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Fairxat on Jan 29, 2022 15:17:08 GMT 1, I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history I remember these type of comments on The Virtues thread and The Currency thread. Embarrassing 😳
These were a new process, and people unsure, so held off
Loads more to come and flood the market
I am pretty sure these 'Empresses' will emd up as a bad investment and will drag down the market for the virtues as well. A ton of flippers and small scale galleries will buy them and they will end open with very large edition numbers. My estimate is 20.000 editions in total. And the little something Virtues haad going will also be less. My price estimate a year from now is 3K for the empress - only holding up because people do not want to face the loss. In the long run the empress will end below the fruitful and forever print, because they also come with an important and nice history I remember these type of comments on The Virtues thread and The Currency thread. Embarrassing 😳 These were a new process, and people unsure, so held off Loads more to come and flood the market |
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kfroms
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by kfroms on Jan 29, 2022 16:13:43 GMT 1, No one paid VAT in the UK for The Currency. Nobody. It wasn't an error or mistake. You're thinking with a traditional tax accountant's head on here. NFTs are a grey area. Heni know EXACTLY what they are doing. But you are not buying an NFT; you are buying a physical artwork. If you're correct , then perhaps Heni get around the tax laws by saying the Hirst Currency painting is actually free to those that buy an NFT (and are happy for the NFT to then be destroyed). Heni does strike me as a bit of a dodgy operation. That's why they ask for payment in U.S. dollars even though they are based in London. They are trying to avoid paying UK tax altogether.
Your lack of understanding is both baffling and scary.
If you are interested about the amount of taxes Heni pays ( as well as their turnover, cost of sales etc ) I advise you to check Companies House. All data is there.
You are welcome.
No one paid VAT in the UK for The Currency. Nobody. It wasn't an error or mistake. You're thinking with a traditional tax accountant's head on here. NFTs are a grey area. Heni know EXACTLY what they are doing. But you are not buying an NFT; you are buying a physical artwork. If you're correct , then perhaps Heni get around the tax laws by saying the Hirst Currency painting is actually free to those that buy an NFT (and are happy for the NFT to then be destroyed). Heni does strike me as a bit of a dodgy operation. That's why they ask for payment in U.S. dollars even though they are based in London. They are trying to avoid paying UK tax altogether. Your lack of understanding is both baffling and scary. If you are interested about the amount of taxes Heni pays ( as well as their turnover, cost of sales etc ) I advise you to check Companies House. All data is there. You are welcome. |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Gentle Mental on Jan 29, 2022 16:13:50 GMT 1, Remember the Micallef prints that quartered in value? And kinda destroyed his entire portfolio as a result?
Even the grailed 21st century tanked.
Hirst, like Kaws; seems to be flood proof.
Still the demand could be artificially inflated.
There could be warehouse full of unsold stock to keep appearance up.
This could be the flood that ends all.
Point is - nothing is risk free. Not even the mighty DH.
He is also releasing over a thousand record sleeves at 2.5k each. At the same time.
Then again. He could be like the US Feds. Printing trillions and nothing happens.
Remember the Micallef prints that quartered in value? And kinda destroyed his entire portfolio as a result?
Even the grailed 21st century tanked.
Hirst, like Kaws; seems to be flood proof.
Still the demand could be artificially inflated.
There could be warehouse full of unsold stock to keep appearance up.
This could be the flood that ends all.
Point is - nothing is risk free. Not even the mighty DH.
He is also releasing over a thousand record sleeves at 2.5k each. At the same time.
Then again. He could be like the US Feds. Printing trillions and nothing happens.
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bsharp
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by bsharp on Jan 29, 2022 16:28:00 GMT 1, ITT: six pages of speculation on run size and flippability, with a couple comments about how they look.
Are there any thoughts about the art itself? The videos look great, but a square meter of red glitter in the flesh is what’s giving me pause.
ITT: six pages of speculation on run size and flippability, with a couple comments about how they look.
Are there any thoughts about the art itself? The videos look great, but a square meter of red glitter in the flesh is what’s giving me pause.
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Charlie Bronson on Jan 29, 2022 16:35:03 GMT 1, Anyone got any ideas on how you'll frame these?
Thick, gloss black, box frame, black mat with 1/2” border around the piece, would look amazing.
Anyone who thinks the edition number will be huge is mistaken. $3500 is a lot of money to most, and the images arguably aren’t as appealing as the Virtues series. That being said, I’d bet these will look amazing in person. The red is muted and the glitter won’t look cheesy. Just like EVERY prior Hirst/Heni release, these will flip well. Not sure how some members are confidently stating that these will fail in terms of ROI down the road, when all stats point to the opposite.
One thing I’ve learned from being here for a while is to not listen to anyone on here, and instead go with your gut in terms of art investing. I’m buying two, to frame and hang, and if, let’s say 10 years from now, I get a nice profit if I sell them, I may, but not before enjoying yet another huge, signed Hirst, for arguably a great price, for at least a few years if not for life.
Anyone got any ideas on how you'll frame these? Thick, gloss black, box frame, black mat with 1/2” border around the piece, would look amazing. Anyone who thinks the edition number will be huge is mistaken. $3500 is a lot of money to most, and the images arguably aren’t as appealing as the Virtues series. That being said, I’d bet these will look amazing in person. The red is muted and the glitter won’t look cheesy. Just like EVERY prior Hirst/Heni release, these will flip well. Not sure how some members are confidently stating that these will fail in terms of ROI down the road, when all stats point to the opposite. One thing I’ve learned from being here for a while is to not listen to anyone on here, and instead go with your gut in terms of art investing. I’m buying two, to frame and hang, and if, let’s say 10 years from now, I get a nice profit if I sell them, I may, but not before enjoying yet another huge, signed Hirst, for arguably a great price, for at least a few years if not for life. |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Art Fan 2011 on Jan 29, 2022 16:36:13 GMT 1, Even the charity prints at a much lower price point only sold in editions of 4k - these are nearly 10 times the price! Anyone thinking these will sell in huge numbers is mistaken, edition sizes will likely range between 1.5-2.5k.
They are signed Damien Hirst's, they will not lose value! FWIW, these will likely trade for double/triple cost in the next 12 months.
H10-5 for me
Even the charity prints at a much lower price point only sold in editions of 4k - these are nearly 10 times the price! Anyone thinking these will sell in huge numbers is mistaken, edition sizes will likely range between 1.5-2.5k.
They are signed Damien Hirst's, they will not lose value! FWIW, these will likely trade for double/triple cost in the next 12 months.
H10-5 for me
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Universal Dav on Jan 29, 2022 16:45:11 GMT 1, If you go for the nft option what happens to that nft deed after 36 months if you don’t redeem for a physical?
If you go for the nft option what happens to that nft deed after 36 months if you don’t redeem for a physical?
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Happy Shopper on Jan 29, 2022 16:55:10 GMT 1, If you go for the nft option what happens to that nft deed after 36 months if you don’t redeem for a physical?
Apparently you keep it, but can’t redeem the print anymore… which seems a bit odd.
But not clear what it is you'd be left with. They say this isn’t t like their other NFTs. It’s more like a receipt… so maybe not supported in the same way as The Currency, etc.
Maybe you’re left with a link to nothing.
If you go for the nft option what happens to that nft deed after 36 months if you don’t redeem for a physical? Apparently you keep it, but can’t redeem the print anymore… which seems a bit odd. But not clear what it is you'd be left with. They say this isn’t t like their other NFTs. It’s more like a receipt… so maybe not supported in the same way as The Currency, etc. Maybe you’re left with a link to nothing. |
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embee
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by embee on Jan 29, 2022 16:59:12 GMT 1, ITT: six pages of speculation on run size and flippability, with a couple comments about how they look. Are there any thoughts about the art itself? The videos look great, but a square meter of red glitter in the flesh is what’s giving me pause.
Yeah, the 'degree of glitter' is what I'm not sure about - really wish I could see one first. Have faith that it will be done tastefully, but still... as you say, it's a square meter of red glitter. Anyway, few days left to overthink it ahead of a decision...
ITT: six pages of speculation on run size and flippability, with a couple comments about how they look. Are there any thoughts about the art itself? The videos look great, but a square meter of red glitter in the flesh is what’s giving me pause. Yeah, the 'degree of glitter' is what I'm not sure about - really wish I could see one first. Have faith that it will be done tastefully, but still... as you say, it's a square meter of red glitter. Anyway, few days left to overthink it ahead of a decision... |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Georgie Poppit on Jan 29, 2022 17:01:04 GMT 1, Even the charity prints at a much lower price point only sold in editions of 4k - these are nearly 10 times the price! Anyone thinking these will sell in huge numbers is mistaken, edition sizes will likely range between 1.5-2.5k. They are signed Damien Hirst's, they will not lose value! FWIW, these will likely trade for double/triple cost in the next 12 months. H10-5 for me
These aren’t as nice though. Not easy images to have on the wall. They’re the ‘Anne Summers red knickers’ of Hirst releases.
Even the charity prints at a much lower price point only sold in editions of 4k - these are nearly 10 times the price! Anyone thinking these will sell in huge numbers is mistaken, edition sizes will likely range between 1.5-2.5k. They are signed Damien Hirst's, they will not lose value! FWIW, these will likely trade for double/triple cost in the next 12 months. H10-5 for me These aren’t as nice though. Not easy images to have on the wall. They’re the ‘Anne Summers red knickers’ of Hirst releases. |
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tonys
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by tonys on Jan 29, 2022 17:03:31 GMT 1, My 2p worth...
1. Timed edition ain't new for Hirst. He did several before Virtues
2. Those early timed releases, massively subscribed were relatively cheap
3. Despite that, they increase in value despite flooding eBay (still)
4. The Virtues success was a surprise for many if not all.
5. These images are better than Virtues, albeit a bit too red 
6. These new prints will not repeat the success in terms of Virtues
7. However, you will not lose money, but you won't be doubling it either.
8. Buy if you like the image.
My pension pot fell again last year. Buy art, make 5-10% is a smart move IMO. Don't get over-excited about paying off your mortage.
My 2p worth... 1. Timed edition ain't new for Hirst. He did several before Virtues 2. Those early timed releases, massively subscribed were relatively cheap 3. Despite that, they increase in value despite flooding eBay (still) 4. The Virtues success was a surprise for many if not all. 5. These images are better than Virtues, albeit a bit too red 6. These new prints will not repeat the success in terms of Virtues 7. However, you will not lose money, but you won't be doubling it either. 8. Buy if you like the image. My pension pot fell again last year. Buy art, make 5-10% is a smart move IMO. Don't get over-excited about paying off your mortage. |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Sixty Bells on Jan 29, 2022 17:19:21 GMT 1, Regarding image, the Virtues copped a lot of hate. But all I am hearing about these is that people absolutely love them. (Apart from a few people on here). The popular images in this series will reach the tens of thousands in edition size. (IMO). I really hope he knows what he’s doing to his market.
Regarding image, the Virtues copped a lot of hate. But all I am hearing about these is that people absolutely love them. (Apart from a few people on here). The popular images in this series will reach the tens of thousands in edition size. (IMO). I really hope he knows what he’s doing to his market.
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Sam Am
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Sam Am on Jan 29, 2022 17:21:58 GMT 1, Morning all from a below freezing Windy City…
Am I the only one that’s thought to buy the NFT then an hour later or what ever trade it in and dodge the tax ?
Morning all from a below freezing Windy City…
Am I the only one that’s thought to buy the NFT then an hour later or what ever trade it in and dodge the tax ?
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Deleted
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Deleted on Jan 29, 2022 17:31:41 GMT 1, Morning all from a below freezing Windy City… Am I the only one that’s thought to buy the NFT then an hour later or what ever trade it in and dodge the tax ?
“It will be possible to redeem the NFTs for the physical artworks around 3 months after the close of the drop.”
A bit longer than an hour later but I take your point - is this legit? If it is, it’s the way to go in the Uk - saves $700
If you buy a physical it will take a similar length of time to arrive anyway…
“ HENI will endeavour to dispatch the physical works within 3 months of the close of the drop.”
Morning all from a below freezing Windy City… Am I the only one that’s thought to buy the NFT then an hour later or what ever trade it in and dodge the tax ? “It will be possible to redeem the NFTs for the physical artworks around 3 months after the close of the drop.” A bit longer than an hour later but I take your point - is this legit? If it is, it’s the way to go in the Uk - saves $700 If you buy a physical it will take a similar length of time to arrive anyway… “ HENI will endeavour to dispatch the physical works within 3 months of the close of the drop.” |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by JL Broooks on Jan 29, 2022 17:38:20 GMT 1, It is a business’ responsibility to collect VAT for any transaction of physical things (well, in general for everything under the country’s VAT legislation). VAT should be collected based on the things value. If HENI is not collecting VAT on these when shipping them out, they are in breach of law, regardless of them considering as a ‘gift’ and the actual purchase was for the NFT. They are doing a transaction and VAT follows the value of the item.
Same goes for overseas after sales. The receiver (in Japan for example) should put incoming VAT based on the actual value, and not the original value. Of course - if seller and receiver put a low value on the shipping label / invoice most likely no VAT will be paid, but they are then also breaching the law.
It’s this easy and not at all impacted of whether the item was an NFT to begin with or not.
It is a business’ responsibility to collect VAT for any transaction of physical things (well, in general for everything under the country’s VAT legislation). VAT should be collected based on the things value. If HENI is not collecting VAT on these when shipping them out, they are in breach of law, regardless of them considering as a ‘gift’ and the actual purchase was for the NFT. They are doing a transaction and VAT follows the value of the item.
Same goes for overseas after sales. The receiver (in Japan for example) should put incoming VAT based on the actual value, and not the original value. Of course - if seller and receiver put a low value on the shipping label / invoice most likely no VAT will be paid, but they are then also breaching the law.
It’s this easy and not at all impacted of whether the item was an NFT to begin with or not.
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andug
New Member
🗨️ 171
👍🏻 90
January 2021
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by andug on Jan 29, 2022 18:00:07 GMT 1, My honest opinion: I find the composition of these extremely tacky. The glitter makes it even worse. Good luck with the investment.
My honest opinion: I find the composition of these extremely tacky. The glitter makes it even worse. Good luck with the investment.
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Criminal Mischief on Jan 29, 2022 18:00:34 GMT 1, It's soooo loaded in Heni/DH's favour as to be almost a con. At this point, it feels like 95% business and 5% art.
Bright red, Butterfly's, released to coincide with Chinese New year.... 🤑💸🤑💸
Anyone got any ideas on how you'll frame these?
It's soooo loaded in Heni/DH's favour as to be almost a con. At this point, it feels like 95% business and 5% art. House always wins. Bright red, Butterfly's, released to coincide with Chinese New year.... 🤑💸🤑💸 CNY and Valentine's Day. Quite brilliant actually. Anyone got any ideas on how you'll frame these? I've never purchased a Heni release before, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these come ready to hang. Which saves $600-1,000 on framing. I have a dark red entryway when you walk into my apt and this is going to fit perfectly. |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Charlie Bronson on Jan 29, 2022 18:19:37 GMT 1, It's soooo loaded in Heni/DH's favour as to be almost a con. At this point, it feels like 95% business and 5% art. House always wins. Bright red, Butterfly's, released to coincide with Chinese New year.... 🤑💸🤑💸 CNY and Valentine's Day. Quite brilliant actually. Anyone got any ideas on how you'll frame these? I've never purchased a Heni release before, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these come ready to hang. Which saves $600-1,000 on framing. I have a dark red entryway when you walk into my apt and this is going to fit perfectly.
Correct, they come ready to hang. Imho the thinness/lack of width of the piece, coupled with the large size, makes it look very anemic when hung without framing. Framing these large Heni pieces in a thick frame gives them such a strong presence on the wall. All a matter of opinion of course.
It's soooo loaded in Heni/DH's favour as to be almost a con. At this point, it feels like 95% business and 5% art. House always wins. Bright red, Butterfly's, released to coincide with Chinese New year.... 🤑💸🤑💸 CNY and Valentine's Day. Quite brilliant actually. Anyone got any ideas on how you'll frame these? I've never purchased a Heni release before, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe these come ready to hang. Which saves $600-1,000 on framing. I have a dark red entryway when you walk into my apt and this is going to fit perfectly. Correct, they come ready to hang. Imho the thinness/lack of width of the piece, coupled with the large size, makes it look very anemic when hung without framing. Framing these large Heni pieces in a thick frame gives them such a strong presence on the wall. All a matter of opinion of course. |
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by Schrödinger's Chat on Jan 29, 2022 18:48:58 GMT 1, There is chat on the currency Discord of selling one currency, and buying a full set of these (as NFT tokens presumably). Interesting idea.
Probably wouldn't get quite enough to buy a full set currently but not too far off.
There is chat on the currency Discord of selling one currency, and buying a full set of these (as NFT tokens presumably). Interesting idea.
Probably wouldn't get quite enough to buy a full set currently but not too far off.
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kfroms
Junior Member
🗨️ 1,784
👍🏻 2,734
October 2011
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by kfroms on Jan 29, 2022 18:56:05 GMT 1, There is chat on the currency Discord of selling one currency, and buying a full set of these (as NFT tokens presumably). Interesting idea. Probably wouldn't get quite enough to buy a full set currently but not too far off.
I thought of doing the same. And of course buying a Currency again after having flipped the Empresses.
Lets see, still a few days to decide
There is chat on the currency Discord of selling one currency, and buying a full set of these (as NFT tokens presumably). Interesting idea. Probably wouldn't get quite enough to buy a full set currently but not too far off. I thought of doing the same. And of course buying a Currency again after having flipped the Empresses. Lets see, still a few days to decide |
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sandworm
New Member
🗨️ 145
👍🏻 151
February 2021
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Damien Hirst, The Empresses H10, by sandworm on Jan 29, 2022 19:03:14 GMT 1, No one paid VAT in the UK for The Currency. Nobody. It wasn't an error or mistake. You're thinking with a traditional tax accountant's head on here. NFTs are a grey area. Heni know EXACTLY what they are doing. I've just realised why you didn't pay VAT on your Currency artwork. It's because you didn't actually buy it. What you bought was an NFT which you were then allowed to swop for an artwork at a later date. In other words, you didn't pay any money for the artwork; hence you didn't pay any VAT either.
As you stated the difference is with 'the currency' release you quite literally were using the NFT as currency to exchange it for the physical print so there is no purchase/transaction in GBP which is taxable.
On this release the NFT isn't a piece of art itself it's just a right to redeem the physical print at a more convenient time. In essence you've still purchased the print directly, you've just delayed the delivery date (which is the tax point) to make flipping easier globally.
This also answers the other question on wether the VAT is paid on the original sale price or the secondary market price. If you sell your NFT for a profit over the 3500USD paid, then you've not sold the artwork directly, you've sold the right to redeem the print from HENI. They will then provide you with the print which is still worth 3500USD in their eyes (and according to HMRC) hence you'll pay the VAT on the 3500USD.
For those interested this is essentially the same as buying wine en primeur, (purchasing prior to bottling) and storing in a bonded warehouse. You don't pay the VAT until it's delivered to you / removed from the bonded warehouse at which point you pay VAT at the rate which you purchased the wine at, not the current market rate.
No one paid VAT in the UK for The Currency. Nobody. It wasn't an error or mistake. You're thinking with a traditional tax accountant's head on here. NFTs are a grey area. Heni know EXACTLY what they are doing. I've just realised why you didn't pay VAT on your Currency artwork. It's because you didn't actually buy it. What you bought was an NFT which you were then allowed to swop for an artwork at a later date. In other words, you didn't pay any money for the artwork; hence you didn't pay any VAT either. I believe you are correct and why you will need to pay VAT on this release. As you stated the difference is with 'the currency' release you quite literally were using the NFT as currency to exchange it for the physical print so there is no purchase/transaction in GBP which is taxable. On this release the NFT isn't a piece of art itself it's just a right to redeem the physical print at a more convenient time. In essence you've still purchased the print directly, you've just delayed the delivery date (which is the tax point) to make flipping easier globally. This also answers the other question on wether the VAT is paid on the original sale price or the secondary market price. If you sell your NFT for a profit over the 3500USD paid, then you've not sold the artwork directly, you've sold the right to redeem the print from HENI. They will then provide you with the print which is still worth 3500USD in their eyes (and according to HMRC) hence you'll pay the VAT on the 3500USD. For those interested this is essentially the same as buying wine en primeur, (purchasing prior to bottling) and storing in a bonded warehouse. You don't pay the VAT until it's delivered to you / removed from the bonded warehouse at which point you pay VAT at the rate which you purchased the wine at, not the current market rate. |
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