mmmike
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Art as an investment , by mmmike on Apr 26, 2011 20:15:30 GMT 1, Art is a terrible investment. Banksy is a terrible investment, Eine, D*Face as well. Might as well put your money in Beanie babies or pogs if you ask me. Then why are all my banksys worth more than what iv payed for them?
For a number of reasons. They originally sold below market. Demand has grown pushing up prices and lots of speculation.
I never said buying Banksy in the past would not have made you money. I just said going forward I wouldn't call buy Banksy an investment any more than buying lottery tickets.
Sure it isn't an efficient market so there are arbitrage opportunities and other flipping strategies that could earn you money but I wouldn't call those investments, rather flipping for profit. If you think you are going to pay current market prices and get rich 20 years down the road off your purchase, I would say you are likely in for disappointment. Contemporary art offers a poor risk return trade off from an investment perspective.
Art is a terrible investment. Banksy is a terrible investment, Eine, D*Face as well. Might as well put your money in Beanie babies or pogs if you ask me. Then why are all my banksys worth more than what iv payed for them? For a number of reasons. They originally sold below market. Demand has grown pushing up prices and lots of speculation. I never said buying Banksy in the past would not have made you money. I just said going forward I wouldn't call buy Banksy an investment any more than buying lottery tickets. Sure it isn't an efficient market so there are arbitrage opportunities and other flipping strategies that could earn you money but I wouldn't call those investments, rather flipping for profit. If you think you are going to pay current market prices and get rich 20 years down the road off your purchase, I would say you are likely in for disappointment. Contemporary art offers a poor risk return trade off from an investment perspective. |
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rrrich
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Art as an investment , by rrrich on Apr 26, 2011 20:17:17 GMT 1, charming baker. his prices have rocketed since the show bought by damien hirst event. you couldve got a decent size original for a new signed banksy (c.3k) a few years back. now they're up to 10 times that.
charming baker. his prices have rocketed since the show bought by damien hirst event. you couldve got a decent size original for a new signed banksy (c.3k) a few years back. now they're up to 10 times that.
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Deleted
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Art as an investment , by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 20:13:40 GMT 1, I buy prints/art mainly as I like them ie the eine to express , which isn't to everyone's taste plus others bits! Just out of interest/members views if you were buying stuff as an investment who would you go for?? (apart from banksy  ) as I've seen a few nice items being sold for cost or less!! Just interested in members views that's all folks !!
I buy prints/art mainly as I like them ie the eine to express , which isn't to everyone's taste plus others bits! Just out of interest/members views if you were buying stuff as an investment who would you go for?? (apart from banksy ) as I've seen a few nice items being sold for cost or less!! Just interested in members views that's all folks !! |
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Ottomatik
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Art as an investment , by Ottomatik on Mar 12, 2013 20:49:00 GMT 1, Buy your art for love, not money.
Buy your art for love, not money.
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Deleted
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Art as an investment , by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 20:57:57 GMT 1, Don't know why it's put the sad face and  Ha ha ??
Don't know why it's put the sad face and Ha ha ?? |
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Art as an investment , by nealmason1986 on Mar 12, 2013 20:59:08 GMT 1, Most people will tell you to buy the art you love and if it makes money then thats even better.
But i know what you mean with making an investment.
Its hard for me to say as i dont buy prints to make money so never thought to hard about it but i bet Daleast will make money in the future.
I also think peter blake is a safe bet at the moment. He is in his 80's and he is producing some nice pop art. If/When he dies i presume his work will increase in value. But its not a nice way to think is suppose.
I have about 5 Copyright pieces on my walls and long term i dont think they will hold much value at the moment but i love his work. Many dont. But i put what i love on my walls.
Most people will tell you to buy the art you love and if it makes money then thats even better.
But i know what you mean with making an investment.
Its hard for me to say as i dont buy prints to make money so never thought to hard about it but i bet Daleast will make money in the future.
I also think peter blake is a safe bet at the moment. He is in his 80's and he is producing some nice pop art. If/When he dies i presume his work will increase in value. But its not a nice way to think is suppose.
I have about 5 Copyright pieces on my walls and long term i dont think they will hold much value at the moment but i love his work. Many dont. But i put what i love on my walls.
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DrWhite
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Art as an investment , by DrWhite on Mar 12, 2013 21:02:00 GMT 1, Don't know why it's put the sad face and Ha ha ??
'IT' knows you are struggling with your inner self
Don't know why it's put the sad face and Ha ha ?? 'IT' knows you are struggling with your inner self |
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Art Fan 2011
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Art as an investment , by Art Fan 2011 on Mar 12, 2013 21:48:31 GMT 1, Whats "hot" now, may not be "hot" down the line and who knows what will become all the rage in years to come, trends change as do peoples tastes so if your treating art as an investment, as with any investment you have to take your own personal view on it (educated guess or otherwise), sometimes you will be right, sometimes you will be wrong, some gambles will be more risky than others, but if you atleast buy pieces you like then you can enjoy looking at them while you wait to see whether your purchase was an "investment worthy" one or not!
Whats "hot" now, may not be "hot" down the line and who knows what will become all the rage in years to come, trends change as do peoples tastes so if your treating art as an investment, as with any investment you have to take your own personal view on it (educated guess or otherwise), sometimes you will be right, sometimes you will be wrong, some gambles will be more risky than others, but if you atleast buy pieces you like then you can enjoy looking at them while you wait to see whether your purchase was an "investment worthy" one or not!
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Graham H
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Art as an investment , by Graham H on Mar 12, 2013 21:57:28 GMT 1, Art fan.. You pretty much summed my thoughts up in a succinct manner.
Ive bought stuff that I've really liked, put it up, looked at it loads, then,after a time my thoughts on the picture just aren't the same, so I change it on the wall.. Maybe trade it, maybe sell it.. But still have something to look at.
i hope im not the only one who's tastes change like this..and this will go hand in hand with values and fashionable artists I would say..hence why prices go up and down..or am I being to simplistic with that?
Art fan.. You pretty much summed my thoughts up in a succinct manner.
Ive bought stuff that I've really liked, put it up, looked at it loads, then,after a time my thoughts on the picture just aren't the same, so I change it on the wall.. Maybe trade it, maybe sell it.. But still have something to look at.
i hope im not the only one who's tastes change like this..and this will go hand in hand with values and fashionable artists I would say..hence why prices go up and down..or am I being to simplistic with that?
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Art as an investment , by Coach on Mar 12, 2013 22:17:20 GMT 1, Art fan.. You pretty much summed my thoughts up in a succinct manner. Ive bought stuff that I've really liked, put it up, looked at it loads, then,after a time my thoughts on the picture just aren't the same, so I change it on the wall.. Maybe trade it, maybe sell it.. But still have something to look at. i hope im not the only one who's tastes change like this..and this will go hand in hand with values and fashionable artists I would say..hence why prices go up and down..or am I being to simplistic with that?
You arent. Tastes definatley change.
It's just that for some people they seem to change a lot quicker than they do for others!
It's usually pretty obvious whose tastes change, and who buys to make a quick buck.
Art fan.. You pretty much summed my thoughts up in a succinct manner. Ive bought stuff that I've really liked, put it up, looked at it loads, then,after a time my thoughts on the picture just aren't the same, so I change it on the wall.. Maybe trade it, maybe sell it.. But still have something to look at. i hope im not the only one who's tastes change like this..and this will go hand in hand with values and fashionable artists I would say..hence why prices go up and down..or am I being to simplistic with that? You arent. Tastes definatley change. It's just that for some people they seem to change a lot quicker than they do for others! It's usually pretty obvious whose tastes change, and who buys to make a quick buck. |
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Cornish Crayon
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Art as an investment , by Cornish Crayon on Mar 12, 2013 22:28:43 GMT 1, Yeah, pretty obvious who's tastes change within 24 hrs of purchase lol
Yeah, pretty obvious who's tastes change within 24 hrs of purchase lol
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loucastel
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Art as an investment , by loucastel on Mar 12, 2013 22:32:46 GMT 1, Wow, art as an investment what a topic.
Another bubble, that's what this market is all about, just be warned by artists like Micallef, Neate, Herakut, all the rage at one point next thing you know prices drop dramatically, fickle thing the art market, unless you have squillions to invest to buy well known high end artists, best to leave it alone and just buy upcoming artists, who maybe if you are lucky "make it" but don't spend loadsa dosh in the hope that you are going to make a fortune.
Good luck and take care!
Wow, art as an investment what a topic.
Another bubble, that's what this market is all about, just be warned by artists like Micallef, Neate, Herakut, all the rage at one point next thing you know prices drop dramatically, fickle thing the art market, unless you have squillions to invest to buy well known high end artists, best to leave it alone and just buy upcoming artists, who maybe if you are lucky "make it" but don't spend loadsa dosh in the hope that you are going to make a fortune.
Good luck and take care!
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Art as an investment , by Coach on Mar 12, 2013 22:40:20 GMT 1, If you want to buy art as an investment, I think you have to have a lot of money to start with.
The art that most (not all) of us collect here is unlikley to be a good investment imo.
I would suggest buy art that you will enjoy regardless. Invest in your enjoyment.
If you want a return, unless you have substantial capital to start with, I dont think art is the best venture.
If you want to buy art as an investment, I think you have to have a lot of money to start with.
The art that most (not all) of us collect here is unlikley to be a good investment imo.
I would suggest buy art that you will enjoy regardless. Invest in your enjoyment.
If you want a return, unless you have substantial capital to start with, I dont think art is the best venture.
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artylang
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Art as an investment , by artylang on Mar 12, 2013 22:41:29 GMT 1, i certainly wouldnt be looking for recommendations here! haha
For any individual, at a certain price point, everything becomes an investment. At it's worst the art world is an unregulated stock market. If you plan to invest, do your homework.
i certainly wouldnt be looking for recommendations here! haha
For any individual, at a certain price point, everything becomes an investment. At it's worst the art world is an unregulated stock market. If you plan to invest, do your homework.
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brendan1985
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Art as an investment , by brendan1985 on Mar 12, 2013 22:47:22 GMT 1, Get a Bambi I have heard she is the new banksy 
Get a Bambi I have heard she is the new banksy |
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loucastel
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Art as an investment , by loucastel on Mar 12, 2013 22:49:55 GMT 1, i certainly wouldnt be looking for recommendations here! haha For any individual, at a certain price point, everything becomes an investment. At it's worst the art world is an unregulated stock market. If you plan to invest, do your homework.
Mmmm penny shares, now there's a thought!
i certainly wouldnt be looking for recommendations here! haha For any individual, at a certain price point, everything becomes an investment. At it's worst the art world is an unregulated stock market. If you plan to invest, do your homework. And there was me just going to pm you about the new Stik print, he he. Mmmm penny shares, now there's a thought! |
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Deleted
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Art as an investment , by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 22:57:03 GMT 1, Get a Bambi I have heard she is the new banksy
Haven't you read the Big Issue? Apparently Bambi got muscled out and Stik is the new Banksy.
Get a Bambi I have heard she is the new banksy Haven't you read the Big Issue? Apparently Bambi got muscled out and Stik is the new Banksy. |
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sierrahotel
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Art as an investment , by sierrahotel on Mar 13, 2013 9:56:34 GMT 1, totally agree with 'buy for pleasure, if it appreciates, that's a bonus'.
but in general, rarity will always push prices up, ceteris paribus. so try to avoid overly prolific artists, and favour artists that limit production. Generally originals do better than prints too in the long run I reckon. I have spent similar amounts on originals by Stik and Eine, but I think the fact Stik keeps his production down may give his prices a boost in the medium term.
totally agree with 'buy for pleasure, if it appreciates, that's a bonus'.
but in general, rarity will always push prices up, ceteris paribus. so try to avoid overly prolific artists, and favour artists that limit production. Generally originals do better than prints too in the long run I reckon. I have spent similar amounts on originals by Stik and Eine, but I think the fact Stik keeps his production down may give his prices a boost in the medium term.
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sreinecke22
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Art as an investment , by sreinecke22 on Mar 13, 2013 13:12:54 GMT 1, Buy art, frame art and hang art! If you wake up every morning and love it when you look at it it is a great investment. - If you just buy art to make money I think you might be better off playing roulette as the risk return profile is clear from the start.
I buy Faile...Will I ever get back I paid?? - not sure and do not really care!
Buy art, frame art and hang art! If you wake up every morning and love it when you look at it it is a great investment. - If you just buy art to make money I think you might be better off playing roulette as the risk return profile is clear from the start.
I buy Faile...Will I ever get back I paid?? - not sure and do not really care!
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eschiff
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Art as an investment , by eschiff on Mar 13, 2013 13:27:01 GMT 1, i think art is definitely an investment, and those who just 'buy what they like' are either lying, naive or only spending disposable income. If you start spending more than disposable income (dipping into savings) then you certainly want to ensure you're receiving more than you would with interest rates. Now, that being said, if you're buying art JUST for investment you may be buying different then if you're buying art you love AND for investment.
It doesn't matter how much your spending, just how much that is in relation to your overall spend. In terms of which artists...that's harder obviously. The only safe bet for investment purposes in this scene is banksy. But it's like the stock market, sure you can buy a charming baker and it may appreciate massively, or the bubble may burst and you're left holding a piece of paper you don't necessarily love.
Art is an investment, absolutely.
i think art is definitely an investment, and those who just 'buy what they like' are either lying, naive or only spending disposable income. If you start spending more than disposable income (dipping into savings) then you certainly want to ensure you're receiving more than you would with interest rates. Now, that being said, if you're buying art JUST for investment you may be buying different then if you're buying art you love AND for investment.
It doesn't matter how much your spending, just how much that is in relation to your overall spend. In terms of which artists...that's harder obviously. The only safe bet for investment purposes in this scene is banksy. But it's like the stock market, sure you can buy a charming baker and it may appreciate massively, or the bubble may burst and you're left holding a piece of paper you don't necessarily love.
Art is an investment, absolutely.
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Art as an investment , by Happy Shopper on Mar 13, 2013 14:14:05 GMT 1, As others have said, you can only make an educated guess, or just buy what you like.
I'd assume 90% of what this forum buys will be worthless in 20 years... but we just don't know.
Stik, Dal, etc... popular now, but can you really see them having long term careers ? Maybe !!
At least Banksy, Faile, Kaws, Obey, etc have been around a good while and their work remains popular (and they were the spark of this current scene).
And then you have the "proper" artists; Peter Blake, Hirst, Chapman Bros, Emin: You have to assume they're a slightly safer bet long term, but generally with higher starting prices.
As others have said, you can only make an educated guess, or just buy what you like.
I'd assume 90% of what this forum buys will be worthless in 20 years... but we just don't know.
Stik, Dal, etc... popular now, but can you really see them having long term careers ? Maybe !!
At least Banksy, Faile, Kaws, Obey, etc have been around a good while and their work remains popular (and they were the spark of this current scene).
And then you have the "proper" artists; Peter Blake, Hirst, Chapman Bros, Emin: You have to assume they're a slightly safer bet long term, but generally with higher starting prices.
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Art as an investment , by Phear Loathing on Mar 13, 2013 14:31:53 GMT 1, Long run probably most aren't the greatest investment. Short run < 5 years you may be ok.
Typically for me I buy pieces that first I like, and second have a market of buyers In the event i I do get sick of it.
Maybe prices go up a bit, maybe down a bit. But in the end it's not a whole lot of cash out the window.
It's te only way I can justify spending the money.
It's amazing how much spend on art compared to goods that automatically start decreasing in value ( t.v. Cars, electronics in general) just because I can't justify the $$
My .02
Long run probably most aren't the greatest investment. Short run < 5 years you may be ok.
Typically for me I buy pieces that first I like, and second have a market of buyers In the event i I do get sick of it.
Maybe prices go up a bit, maybe down a bit. But in the end it's not a whole lot of cash out the window.
It's te only way I can justify spending the money.
It's amazing how much spend on art compared to goods that automatically start decreasing in value ( t.v. Cars, electronics in general) just because I can't justify the $$
My .02
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mmmike
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Art as an investment , by mmmike on Mar 13, 2013 14:55:42 GMT 1, "Urban art" is a terrible investment. High transaction fees, inefficient markets, very much driven by fads and bubbles. Now someone will say how they have made lots of money as a counter argument, well just because you win the lottery does not mean it was a smart investment, you got lucky.
I read somewhere a good guideline if you want to invest in art buy pieces for a minimum of $100,000 by artists who's works routinely sell in that range or higher. Cheaper art is just a gamble (as an investment).
Personally I'm not in that league. I try to buy stuff that I like. Sometimes I get caught up in hype but the goal is to buy art that I like.
Right now the artists that I'm really interested in are; Eric Haze, Patrick Martinez, Ai Weiwei, Krink, Evol, Boxi, Jonone, Aaron Del al Cruz and Keith Haring. If anyone has any interesting pieces from these guys they want to dump to go after great investments pm me.
"Urban art" is a terrible investment. High transaction fees, inefficient markets, very much driven by fads and bubbles. Now someone will say how they have made lots of money as a counter argument, well just because you win the lottery does not mean it was a smart investment, you got lucky.
I read somewhere a good guideline if you want to invest in art buy pieces for a minimum of $100,000 by artists who's works routinely sell in that range or higher. Cheaper art is just a gamble (as an investment).
Personally I'm not in that league. I try to buy stuff that I like. Sometimes I get caught up in hype but the goal is to buy art that I like.
Right now the artists that I'm really interested in are; Eric Haze, Patrick Martinez, Ai Weiwei, Krink, Evol, Boxi, Jonone, Aaron Del al Cruz and Keith Haring. If anyone has any interesting pieces from these guys they want to dump to go after great investments pm me.
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mmmike
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Art as an investment , by mmmike on Mar 13, 2013 15:02:42 GMT 1, Oh and to those who say Banksy is a safe investment, I'd say maybe in terms of the high end paintings but the prints? I'd be shocked if they do well in the long run. Not to say they will be worthless but I think they will have a hard time continuing to go up in value significantly. Just look at CYW, a tribute to Keith Haring that sells for more than a lot of great real Keith Haring prints. That doesn't make much sense.
Oh and to those who say Banksy is a safe investment, I'd say maybe in terms of the high end paintings but the prints? I'd be shocked if they do well in the long run. Not to say they will be worthless but I think they will have a hard time continuing to go up in value significantly. Just look at CYW, a tribute to Keith Haring that sells for more than a lot of great real Keith Haring prints. That doesn't make much sense.
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DrWhite
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Art as an investment , by DrWhite on Mar 13, 2013 15:08:56 GMT 1, Oh and to those who say Banksy is a safe investment, I'd say maybe in terms of the high end paintings but the prints? I'd be shocked if they do well in the long run. Not to say they will be worthless but I think they will have a hard time continuing to go up in value significantly. Just look at CYW, a tribute to Keith Haring that sells for more than a lot of great real Keith Haring prints. That doesn't make much sense.ย
Same was said about Warhol prints
Oh and to those who say Banksy is a safe investment, I'd say maybe in terms of the high end paintings but the prints? I'd be shocked if they do well in the long run. Not to say they will be worthless but I think they will have a hard time continuing to go up in value significantly. Just look at CYW, a tribute to Keith Haring that sells for more than a lot of great real Keith Haring prints. That doesn't make much sense.ย Same was said about Warhol prints |
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eschiff
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Art as an investment , by eschiff on Mar 13, 2013 15:12:16 GMT 1, ou"Urban art" is a terrible investment. High transaction fees, inefficient markets, very much driven by fads and bubbles. Now someone will say how they have made lots of money as a counter argument, well just because you win the lottery does not mean it was a smart investment, you got lucky. I read somewhere a good guideline if you want to invest in art buy pieces for a minimum of $100,000 by artists who's works routinely sell in that range or higher. Cheaper art is just a gamble (as an investment). Personally I'm not in that league. I try to buy stuff that I like. Sometimes I get caught up in hype but the goal is to buy art that I like. Right now the artists that I'm really interested in are; Eric Haze, Patrick Martinez, Ai Weiwei, Krink, Evol, Boxi, Jonone, Aaron Del al Cruz and Keith Haring. If anyone has any interesting pieces from these guys they want to dump to go after great investments pm me.
and i'm not arguing banksy value won't go down, but it's certainly an established market which will be subject to the whims of any market. Can it crash? Sure, but much more unlikely then most of the artists discussed on here.
ou "Urban art" is a terrible investment. High transaction fees, inefficient markets, very much driven by fads and bubbles. Now someone will say how they have made lots of money as a counter argument, well just because you win the lottery does not mean it was a smart investment, you got lucky. I read somewhere a good guideline if you want to invest in art buy pieces for a minimum of $100,000 by artists who's works routinely sell in that range or higher. Cheaper art is just a gamble (as an investment). Personally I'm not in that league. I try to buy stuff that I like. Sometimes I get caught up in hype but the goal is to buy art that I like. Right now the artists that I'm really interested in are; Eric Haze, Patrick Martinez, Ai Weiwei, Krink, Evol, Boxi, Jonone, Aaron Del al Cruz and Keith Haring. If anyone has any interesting pieces from these guys they want to dump to go after great investments pm me. I would argue the market is extremely efficient. Certainly no assymetric information (everyone knows the prints, knows the artists and knows about the need for a COA), auctions (whether ebay or otherwise) are pretty much as perfect as you can get in terms of market structure. People can manipulate it (i imagine you saying) but that is possible in any true market. Transaction costs may be high but i think many think that to be the exciting part of buying art. As well, most people would argue the time spent on here is a big transaction cost but it's free (aside from lost productivity). and i'm not arguing banksy value won't go down, but it's certainly an established market which will be subject to the whims of any market. Can it crash? Sure, but much more unlikely then most of the artists discussed on here. |
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Tompkins
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Art as an investment , by Tompkins on Mar 13, 2013 15:25:05 GMT 1, Oh and to those who say Banksy is a safe investment, I'd say maybe in terms of the high end paintings but the prints? I'd be shocked if they do well in the long run. Not to say they will be worthless but I think they will have a hard time continuing to go up in value significantly. Just look at CYW, a tribute to Keith Haring that sells for more than a lot of great real Keith Haring prints. That doesn't make much sense.
Thats because your naive mmmike,
agree with your first post though..
Oh and to those who say Banksy is a safe investment, I'd say maybe in terms of the high end paintings but the prints? I'd be shocked if they do well in the long run. Not to say they will be worthless but I think they will have a hard time continuing to go up in value significantly. Just look at CYW, a tribute to Keith Haring that sells for more than a lot of great real Keith Haring prints. That doesn't make much sense. Thats because your naive mmmike, agree with your first post though.. |
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Prescription Art
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Art as an investment , by Prescription Art on Mar 13, 2013 15:32:21 GMT 1, "Urban art" is a terrible investment.
I don't know why people keep saying this... personally, aside from a couple of Adam Neate prints i overpaid for I think every single piece of art i've ever bought has gone up in value. Maybe you're just buying the wrong things.
"Urban art" is a terrible investment. I don't know why people keep saying this... personally, aside from a couple of Adam Neate prints i overpaid for I think every single piece of art i've ever bought has gone up in value. Maybe you're just buying the wrong things. |
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Prescription Art
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Art as an investment , by Prescription Art on Mar 13, 2013 15:33:22 GMT 1, "Urban art" is a terrible investment. I don't know why people keep saying this... personally, aside from a couple of Adam Neate prints i overpaid for I think every single piece of art i've ever bought has gone up in value. Maybe you're just buying the wrong things.
And if i'd actually ever had any money to spend on my collection i'd probably be retiring about now.
"Urban art" is a terrible investment. I don't know why people keep saying this... personally, aside from a couple of Adam Neate prints i overpaid for I think every single piece of art i've ever bought has gone up in value. Maybe you're just buying the wrong things. And if i'd actually ever had any money to spend on my collection i'd probably be retiring about now. |
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) as I've seen a few nice items being sold for cost or less!! Just interested in members views that's all folks !!
