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Polite Notice Re Prints, by Daniel Silk on Oct 8, 2008 18:07:41 GMT 1, I think the most important thing is that the pictures in the end end up with people that really want them. The only problem with BRP doing this I guess is that the right people might have ordered them off ebay, and now will not be getting them and BRP will have more prints back up for sale, that still might go to flippers who will just wait until they have them before they flip this time.
Tricky situation
I think the most important thing is that the pictures in the end end up with people that really want them. The only problem with BRP doing this I guess is that the right people might have ordered them off ebay, and now will not be getting them and BRP will have more prints back up for sale, that still might go to flippers who will just wait until they have them before they flip this time. Tricky situation
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by snakes on Oct 8, 2008 18:13:38 GMT 1, This thread makes BRP a laughing stock. Never mind Art Republic (as that's business); what about panambabe or their employees (wireandstring) who sell volumes of these such prints on eBay that us peasants have bun fights over? BRP obviously give out these prints to such individuals as some form of payment in lieu in full knowlege that they will be flipped!
This thread makes BRP a laughing stock. Never mind Art Republic (as that's business); what about panambabe or their employees (wireandstring) who sell volumes of these such prints on eBay that us peasants have bun fights over? BRP obviously give out these prints to such individuals as some form of payment in lieu in full knowlege that they will be flipped!
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by dogant on Oct 8, 2008 19:34:03 GMT 1, Legally, BRP have entered into a contract once the payment has been made to them - so once you have paid - it's your and they have to deliver on the deal.
Although.....what's stopping them from saying "very sorry, it was an over ordering problem so we will need to refund"........
In short, I do not see how they could cancel orders - as how could they track them back - any seller that puts their address on the ebay details just need to change it - or order prints to another address.
Going forward - they could blacklist people - but how the hell could they manage this through the payments system (they could - but it would be very hard and would be easy to get around)
In all - Mojo's point is the most valid - the double standards bit of this stinks. It clear that any business does favours for their staff/clients/customers - this will include the offering of prints - which will be resold at a profit.
It's just as bad as BRP sending out a PDF of the DFACE show to its premium client base - for them to review and purchase - but they make the "low grade" customer base stand outside in the cold with little idea what they are standing around for - except for a little hint of price and edition size (and that was only offered after the forum though the prints would be more expensive). (EDIT - please do not be offended - I am said customer!)
It all bollocks - but thats the joy of the art world. The art may look great - but the customer base and the prices are really f**ked about with - this starts with the galleries.
End....
Legally, BRP have entered into a contract once the payment has been made to them - so once you have paid - it's your and they have to deliver on the deal.
Although.....what's stopping them from saying "very sorry, it was an over ordering problem so we will need to refund"........
In short, I do not see how they could cancel orders - as how could they track them back - any seller that puts their address on the ebay details just need to change it - or order prints to another address.
Going forward - they could blacklist people - but how the hell could they manage this through the payments system (they could - but it would be very hard and would be easy to get around)
In all - Mojo's point is the most valid - the double standards bit of this stinks. It clear that any business does favours for their staff/clients/customers - this will include the offering of prints - which will be resold at a profit.
It's just as bad as BRP sending out a PDF of the DFACE show to its premium client base - for them to review and purchase - but they make the "low grade" customer base stand outside in the cold with little idea what they are standing around for - except for a little hint of price and edition size (and that was only offered after the forum though the prints would be more expensive). (EDIT - please do not be offended - I am said customer!)
It all bollocks - but thats the joy of the art world. The art may look great - but the customer base and the prices are really f**ked about with - this starts with the galleries.
End....
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funyoung
Junior Member
Posts • 1,040
Likes • 20
February 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by funyoung on Oct 8, 2008 19:48:43 GMT 1, Personally don't have a problem with Art Republic selling these. They take a few of all the prints - some good, some bad - and sell on at a profit. They will also (I have been told) even buy from ebay to sell on.
BRP - fair play to you. Hope some idiots get left with a print they don't want and 450 out of pocket due to their own avarice.
Personally don't have a problem with Art Republic selling these. They take a few of all the prints - some good, some bad - and sell on at a profit. They will also (I have been told) even buy from ebay to sell on.
BRP - fair play to you. Hope some idiots get left with a print they don't want and 450 out of pocket due to their own avarice.
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by master on Oct 8, 2008 20:42:55 GMT 1, Legally, BRP have entered into a contract once the payment has been made to them - so once you have paid - it's your and they have to deliver on the deal. Although.....what's stopping them from saying "very sorry, it was an over ordering problem so we will need to refund"........ In short, I do not see how they could cancel orders - as how could they track them back - any seller that puts their address on the ebay details just need to change it - or order prints to another address. Going forward - they could blacklist people - but how the hell could they manage this through the payments system (they could - but it would be very hard and would be easy to get around) In all - Mojo's point is the most valid - the double standards bit of this stinks. It clear that any business does favours for their staff/clients/customers - this will include the offering of prints - which will be resold at a profit. It's just as bad as BRP sending out a PDF of the DFACE show to its premium client base - for them to review and purchase - but they make the "low grade" customer base stand outside in the cold with little idea what they are standing around for - except for a little hint of price and edition size (and that was only offered after the forum though the prints would be more expensive). (EDIT - please do not be offended - I am said customer!)It all bollocks - but thats the joy of the art world. The art may look great - but the customer base and the prices are really f**ked about with - this starts with the galleries. End....
Well-said dogant. Double standards with big D. panamababe has more AP's then artist can produce..lol, so don't see him being blackmailed, certain members on this forum blurb about having pdf before show even opens, SI 4 and 5 sold on ebay before are even released from BRP, gallery itself advertising on ebay, most of the time you've got 0.01 second to buy the print and if you miss it - it's gone to AR next day for extra dosh.... so if you stop all of this first, then - fair play, you can turn around and issue a "polite notice" but with all this issues going on.... not so sure this notice is very polite at all.
Legally, BRP have entered into a contract once the payment has been made to them - so once you have paid - it's your and they have to deliver on the deal. Although.....what's stopping them from saying "very sorry, it was an over ordering problem so we will need to refund"........ In short, I do not see how they could cancel orders - as how could they track them back - any seller that puts their address on the ebay details just need to change it - or order prints to another address. Going forward - they could blacklist people - but how the hell could they manage this through the payments system (they could - but it would be very hard and would be easy to get around) In all - Mojo's point is the most valid - the double standards bit of this stinks. It clear that any business does favours for their staff/clients/customers - this will include the offering of prints - which will be resold at a profit. It's just as bad as BRP sending out a PDF of the DFACE show to its premium client base - for them to review and purchase - but they make the "low grade" customer base stand outside in the cold with little idea what they are standing around for - except for a little hint of price and edition size (and that was only offered after the forum though the prints would be more expensive). (EDIT - please do not be offended - I am said customer!)It all bollocks - but thats the joy of the art world. The art may look great - but the customer base and the prices are really f**ked about with - this starts with the galleries. End.... Well-said dogant. Double standards with big D. panamababe has more AP's then artist can produce..lol, so don't see him being blackmailed, certain members on this forum blurb about having pdf before show even opens, SI 4 and 5 sold on ebay before are even released from BRP, gallery itself advertising on ebay, most of the time you've got 0.01 second to buy the print and if you miss it - it's gone to AR next day for extra dosh.... so if you stop all of this first, then - fair play, you can turn around and issue a "polite notice" but with all this issues going on.... not so sure this notice is very polite at all.
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by fatherxmas on Oct 8, 2008 20:49:32 GMT 1, HONESTLY
I think its pretty pointless doing this..
HONESTLY
I think its pretty pointless doing this..
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by fatherxmas on Oct 8, 2008 20:51:24 GMT 1, It might be a double bluff too lol Making people think they are doing something to put a STOP to the flippers but infact putting them on ebay themselves lol
It might be a double bluff too lol Making people think they are doing something to put a STOP to the flippers but infact putting them on ebay themselves lol
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freemans
New Member
Posts • 155
Likes • 0
March 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by freemans on Oct 8, 2008 20:55:12 GMT 1, HONESTLY I think its pretty pointless doing this..
lmao@xmas
HONESTLY I think its pretty pointless doing this.. lmao@xmas
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westley
New Member
Posts • 429
Likes • 8
July 2007
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by westley on Oct 8, 2008 20:56:18 GMT 1, They can pull the listings that use there pics from the site
They can pull the listings that use there pics from the site
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by fatherxmas on Oct 8, 2008 21:00:53 GMT 1, well im sure some of the "flippers" were at the show..I was.. and i ended up taking a picture of the actual canvass. So when i put up my 15 prints i wont get them pulled.
well im sure some of the "flippers" were at the show..I was.. and i ended up taking a picture of the actual canvass. So when i put up my 15 prints i wont get them pulled.
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts • 4,974
Likes • 5
February 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by Heavyconsumer on Oct 8, 2008 21:03:03 GMT 1, POW have a clause in their terms, that they reserve the right to cancel any orders. They also ban IP addresses of people they identify as flippers or people trying to cheat the 1 print per customer rule.
I think BRP are damned if they do and damned if they don't on this forum, as just as many people are here for profits as those here for appreciation. Ultimately they have posted here, stating their belief that flipping is harmful to their artists and they are backing that up with action. Personally I'm pleased they are. I don't think their dealings with Art Republic are relevant in this debate at all. I see Silky's point about depriving Ebay buyers, but at least the sellers will end up with negativew feedback and if they have been identified, buying in the future may be made more awkward for them too.
POW have a clause in their terms, that they reserve the right to cancel any orders. They also ban IP addresses of people they identify as flippers or people trying to cheat the 1 print per customer rule.
I think BRP are damned if they do and damned if they don't on this forum, as just as many people are here for profits as those here for appreciation. Ultimately they have posted here, stating their belief that flipping is harmful to their artists and they are backing that up with action. Personally I'm pleased they are. I don't think their dealings with Art Republic are relevant in this debate at all. I see Silky's point about depriving Ebay buyers, but at least the sellers will end up with negativew feedback and if they have been identified, buying in the future may be made more awkward for them too.
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mishco
New Member
Posts • 871
Likes • 23
May 2006
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by mishco on Oct 8, 2008 21:09:25 GMT 1, HONESTLY I think its pretty pointless doing this..
i think it's fucking great...
gallerys are gallerys it's what they do, take pieces of paper and canvas and sell them at hugely inflated prices once they've got a picture on them whether they've been painted screened or stamped. the gallery's have overheads to pay for, staff, electricity, insurance and they all probably pay tax on declared earnings which i doubt very much the majority of flippers do.
Quite right BRP trying to take these pieces back. i met a few blatent flippers in the queue for the micallef show at laz last year and it looked like they'd just crawled out of drains and didn't have a clue about the art, horrible little creatures they were. many were trying to butt into the queue and many genuine fans at the back were getting super anxious about not getting a print they genuinely wanted.
HONESTLY I think its pretty pointless doing this.. i think it's fucking great... gallerys are gallerys it's what they do, take pieces of paper and canvas and sell them at hugely inflated prices once they've got a picture on them whether they've been painted screened or stamped. the gallery's have overheads to pay for, staff, electricity, insurance and they all probably pay tax on declared earnings which i doubt very much the majority of flippers do. Quite right BRP trying to take these pieces back. i met a few blatent flippers in the queue for the micallef show at laz last year and it looked like they'd just crawled out of drains and didn't have a clue about the art, horrible little creatures they were. many were trying to butt into the queue and many genuine fans at the back were getting super anxious about not getting a print they genuinely wanted.
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by fatherxmas on Oct 8, 2008 21:10:21 GMT 1, no more negative feedback on ebay..
no more negative feedback on ebay..
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savilerogue
New Member
Posts • 326
Likes • 0
August 2007
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by savilerogue on Oct 8, 2008 21:15:09 GMT 1, Legally, BRP have entered into a contract once the payment has been made to them - so once you have paid - it's your and they have to deliver on the deal.
No, they haven't. The case law available thus far hasn't fully clarified some of the issues around contract formation in e-commerce but generally in scenarios of this kind then - in the absence of any other explicit terms - there is no contract until the retailer has confirmed dispatch or has actually dispatched the item.
The buyer is making the 'offer' when they click on 'buy' and send payment. The retailer is free to accept or reject the offer as it sees fit. Only if the retailer accepts the offer is a contract formed. Of course, if the retailer rejects the offer it must refund the monies paid.
Legally, BRP have entered into a contract once the payment has been made to them - so once you have paid - it's your and they have to deliver on the deal. No, they haven't. The case law available thus far hasn't fully clarified some of the issues around contract formation in e-commerce but generally in scenarios of this kind then - in the absence of any other explicit terms - there is no contract until the retailer has confirmed dispatch or has actually dispatched the item. The buyer is making the 'offer' when they click on 'buy' and send payment. The retailer is free to accept or reject the offer as it sees fit. Only if the retailer accepts the offer is a contract formed. Of course, if the retailer rejects the offer it must refund the monies paid.
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by fatherxmas on Oct 8, 2008 21:15:34 GMT 1, with everything ive said i could even put another spanner into the works..
did all the prints actually sell out? cos this is a great way to say we got a few left due to finding out who the people on ebay were! remember the statue of liberty print was on BRP for more than 2 minutes..It was there for hours..Where was the bum fight for it.. BRP might have been concerned and pulled it making people think it sold out..
Im only thinking of things i personally would do..
with everything ive said i could even put another spanner into the works..
did all the prints actually sell out? cos this is a great way to say we got a few left due to finding out who the people on ebay were! remember the statue of liberty print was on BRP for more than 2 minutes..It was there for hours..Where was the bum fight for it.. BRP might have been concerned and pulled it making people think it sold out..
Im only thinking of things i personally would do..
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by paulypaul on Oct 8, 2008 22:00:19 GMT 1, Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of b It's only pretty pictures...
Go out - make friends...
It's a beautiful world...
Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of breath...Waste of b It's only pretty pictures...
Go out - make friends...
It's a beautiful world...
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by dogant on Oct 8, 2008 22:02:27 GMT 1, savilerogue - I am happy to stand correct on the 'legals' regarding contracts of sale through internet site.
I got a little carried away - although I did study law for about 4 months when I was 16 as well as go on a date with a legal clerk in training!
From BRP's point of view - it appears they have a greater issue with people selling on before the prints arrive - not the facts that some people will sell them on (them, their friends and business associates included)
It the way of the world - buying and selling.
Come to think of it - do BRP also sell prints (ie. take the money at the shows/internet) and then have them delivered to them for them to send out?
savilerogue - I am happy to stand correct on the 'legals' regarding contracts of sale through internet site.
I got a little carried away - although I did study law for about 4 months when I was 16 as well as go on a date with a legal clerk in training!
From BRP's point of view - it appears they have a greater issue with people selling on before the prints arrive - not the facts that some people will sell them on (them, their friends and business associates included)
It the way of the world - buying and selling.
Come to think of it - do BRP also sell prints (ie. take the money at the shows/internet) and then have them delivered to them for them to send out?
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Grubster
Junior Member
Posts • 1,226
Likes • 1
August 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by Grubster on Oct 8, 2008 22:06:15 GMT 1, GREAT!!!! thanks 2 the ppl @ BRP I managed to pick up a DFACE print 2ay due to flippers. so ppl who really want prints can actually get a chance to get them.
GREED!!! PPL who buy prints to flip can't just wait to get them, Even better is all the ppl who sold after the fact and got away w/ it should get B listed too
GREAT!!!! thanks 2 the ppl @ BRP I managed to pick up a DFACE print 2ay due to flippers. so ppl who really want prints can actually get a chance to get them.
GREED!!! PPL who buy prints to flip can't just wait to get them, Even better is all the ppl who sold after the fact and got away w/ it should get B listed too
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by manchestermike on Oct 8, 2008 22:09:23 GMT 1, GREAT!!!! thanks 2 the ppl @ BRP I managed to pick up a DFACE print 2ay due to flippers. so ppl who really want prints can actually get a chance to get them. GREED!!! PPL who buy prints to flip can't just wait to get them, Even better is all the ppl who sold after the fact and got away w/ it should get B listed too
Since when did Pakistan Petroleum Limited flip prints?
GREAT!!!! thanks 2 the ppl @ BRP I managed to pick up a DFACE print 2ay due to flippers. so ppl who really want prints can actually get a chance to get them. GREED!!! PPL who buy prints to flip can't just wait to get them, Even better is all the ppl who sold after the fact and got away w/ it should get B listed too Since when did Pakistan Petroleum Limited flip prints?
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deckstar
New Member
Posts • 827
Likes • 5
May 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by deckstar on Oct 8, 2008 22:23:18 GMT 1, I actually bought a statue print for myself, wonder if this is going to hold up the whole process so we have to wait ages to get our prints. hope not
I actually bought a statue print for myself, wonder if this is going to hold up the whole process so we have to wait ages to get our prints. hope not
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funyoung
Junior Member
Posts • 1,040
Likes • 20
February 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by funyoung on Oct 8, 2008 22:36:30 GMT 1, I actually bought a statue print for myself, wonder if this is going to hold up the whole process so we have to wait ages to get our prints. hope not
You might be in the minority around here.
I actually bought a statue print for myself, wonder if this is going to hold up the whole process so we have to wait ages to get our prints. hope not You might be in the minority around here.
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funyoung
Junior Member
Posts • 1,040
Likes • 20
February 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by funyoung on Oct 8, 2008 22:38:38 GMT 1, Dear Black Rat Press, Have you ever considered selling prints outside of 'office hours' so that those of us with jobs (and working) actually have a chance of buying these pretty prints from you? Thanks, Andrew
Dear Black Rat Press, Have you ever considered selling prints outside of 'office hours' so that those of us with jobs (and working) actually have a chance of buying these pretty prints from you? Thanks, Andrew
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deckstar
New Member
Posts • 827
Likes • 5
May 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by deckstar on Oct 8, 2008 22:39:27 GMT 1, I actually bought a statue print for myself, wonder if this is going to hold up the whole process so we have to wait ages to get our prints. hope not You might be in the minority around here.
lol i know i even bought SI 4 and 5 there up on my wall, i like them looking for 1 , 2 , 3 now its great everyone hates them so much i can pick them up for between £100 - £150, everyone has different tastes i suppose
I actually bought a statue print for myself, wonder if this is going to hold up the whole process so we have to wait ages to get our prints. hope not You might be in the minority around here. lol i know i even bought SI 4 and 5 there up on my wall, i like them looking for 1 , 2 , 3 now its great everyone hates them so much i can pick them up for between £100 - £150, everyone has different tastes i suppose
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by fatherxmas on Oct 8, 2008 22:40:51 GMT 1, im still looking for 1 +2 to finish a second set
none going for 1-150 tho
im still looking for 1 +2 to finish a second set none going for 1-150 tho
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by fatherxmas on Oct 8, 2008 22:43:20 GMT 1, BTW its pointless me buying prints to flip from BRP..They got my address Im prob already on the BLACK LIST....
BTW its pointless me buying prints to flip from BRP..They got my address Im prob already on the BLACK LIST....
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mishco
New Member
Posts • 871
Likes • 23
May 2006
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by mishco on Oct 8, 2008 22:44:20 GMT 1, Im sure most galleries realize that a certain amount of resale flipping is good for them and the artist, but I guess too much can look bad I would say banning buyers and blocking IP's from buying online would be a dangerous thing to do If I was an Artist involved with a gallery doing that sort of thing I would be very worried about the gallery turning away to many people and damaging the Artists future profile Very tricky balancing act
i'm not so sure there silk demand will always typically outstrip supply with the better known artists. many people on here can only afford them at cost and it's usually the true fans and collectors that hold onto the prints. if more go straight to true fans and less on the secondry market surely the prices of those pieces sold on the secondry market will be higher as there will be fewer of them available.
i just can't see any negative effects of this at all.
Im sure most galleries realize that a certain amount of resale flipping is good for them and the artist, but I guess too much can look bad I would say banning buyers and blocking IP's from buying online would be a dangerous thing to do If I was an Artist involved with a gallery doing that sort of thing I would be very worried about the gallery turning away to many people and damaging the Artists future profile Very tricky balancing act i'm not so sure there silk demand will always typically outstrip supply with the better known artists. many people on here can only afford them at cost and it's usually the true fans and collectors that hold onto the prints. if more go straight to true fans and less on the secondry market surely the prices of those pieces sold on the secondry market will be higher as there will be fewer of them available. i just can't see any negative effects of this at all.
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freemans
New Member
Posts • 155
Likes • 0
March 2008
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by freemans on Oct 8, 2008 22:45:28 GMT 1, you got matchin numbers santa
you got matchin numbers santa
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Polite Notice Re Prints, by Daniel Silk on Oct 8, 2008 22:57:33 GMT 1, Im sure most galleries realize that a certain amount of resale flipping is good for them and the artist, but I guess too much can look bad I would say banning buyers and blocking IP's from buying online would be a dangerous thing to do If I was an Artist involved with a gallery doing that sort of thing I would be very worried about the gallery turning away to many people and damaging the Artists future profile Very tricky balancing act i'm not so sure there silk demand will always typically outstrip supply with the better known artists. many people on here can only afford them at cost and it's usually the true fans and collectors that hold onto the prints. if more go straight to true fans and less on the secondry market surely the prices of those pieces sold on the secondry market will be higher as there will be fewer of them available. i just can't see any negative effects of this at all.
Its always a very tricky balancing act with Supply and Demand and I would worry that fiddling too much could do longterm damage to the Gallery and Artists involved No set rules on whats right or wrong to do, but I would take care.
Im sure most galleries realize that a certain amount of resale flipping is good for them and the artist, but I guess too much can look bad I would say banning buyers and blocking IP's from buying online would be a dangerous thing to do If I was an Artist involved with a gallery doing that sort of thing I would be very worried about the gallery turning away to many people and damaging the Artists future profile Very tricky balancing act i'm not so sure there silk demand will always typically outstrip supply with the better known artists. many people on here can only afford them at cost and it's usually the true fans and collectors that hold onto the prints. if more go straight to true fans and less on the secondry market surely the prices of those pieces sold on the secondry market will be higher as there will be fewer of them available. i just can't see any negative effects of this at all. Its always a very tricky balancing act with Supply and Demand and I would worry that fiddling too much could do longterm damage to the Gallery and Artists involved No set rules on whats right or wrong to do, but I would take care.
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