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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by Daniel Silk on Jul 9, 2008 11:38:57 GMT 1, www.thefirstpost.co.uk/people,1138,banksy-stops-people-making-money-from-his-grafitti,34386
TUESDAY JULY 8, 2008
Banksy thwarts art opportunists
Graffiti artist Banksy (pictured here placing one of his own works in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York) is no fool. For some years now, people have been removing his spray-canned efforts from walls, hoardings, bus shelters, etc, in the hope that one day theyโd be able to sell them on at astronomical prices (a Banksy recently fetched over ยฃ1m at auction). However, it now looks as if theyโve wasted their time - because unless theyโre authenticated by Pest Control, the recently formed committee that decrees what work of his work is bona fide, theyโre worthless.
Says The First Postโs art world source: โThe works are made for specific sites, and taking them is tantamount to theft. That is why Banksy has approved this authentication system. He certainly doesnโt want the people whoโve removed them making money out of it.โ
The Telegraph reports that three such examples (sans Pest Controlโs stamp of approval) were offered for sale at Bloomsbury Auctions in London last week. One work, which appears on a piece of plywood, was expected to fetch ยฃ40,000 - ยฃ60,000. Despite having a certificate of authenticity from Banksyโs dealer, Steve Lazarides, it went unsold. Another, a work on ceramic tiles, estimated at ยฃ15,000 - ยฃ20,000, suffered the same fate. And a work that was used in a newspaper feature for the band Blur was withdrawn before the auction.
www.thefirstpost.co.uk/people,1138,banksy-stops-people-making-money-from-his-grafitti,34386 TUESDAY JULY 8, 2008 Banksy thwarts art opportunists Graffiti artist Banksy (pictured here placing one of his own works in the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York) is no fool. For some years now, people have been removing his spray-canned efforts from walls, hoardings, bus shelters, etc, in the hope that one day theyโd be able to sell them on at astronomical prices (a Banksy recently fetched over ยฃ1m at auction). However, it now looks as if theyโve wasted their time - because unless theyโre authenticated by Pest Control, the recently formed committee that decrees what work of his work is bona fide, theyโre worthless. Says The First Postโs art world source: โThe works are made for specific sites, and taking them is tantamount to theft. That is why Banksy has approved this authentication system. He certainly doesnโt want the people whoโve removed them making money out of it.โ The Telegraph reports that three such examples (sans Pest Controlโs stamp of approval) were offered for sale at Bloomsbury Auctions in London last week. One work, which appears on a piece of plywood, was expected to fetch ยฃ40,000 - ยฃ60,000. Despite having a certificate of authenticity from Banksyโs dealer, Steve Lazarides, it went unsold. Another, a work on ceramic tiles, estimated at ยฃ15,000 - ยฃ20,000, suffered the same fate. And a work that was used in a newspaper feature for the band Blur was withdrawn before the auction.
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funyoung
Junior Member
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February 2008
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by funyoung on Jul 9, 2008 11:50:28 GMT 1, >>>ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold. <<< No, they simply have stated publicly that they are NOT going to authenticate them which will discourage people from removing them and will certainly disuade people from passing fakes since their value will be so much less. The only people that I can understand that would be upset by this policy are people with a non authenticated street piece hanging in their home or forgers.
Sorry I was under the misguided illusion that a COA was a Certificate of Authenticity (ie did Banksy do it or not?). Pest Control are refusing to give a COA to a piece that Steve Lazarides has basically said that Banksy did paint.
By refusing to give it a COA they are not saying that it is not authentic but are saying that it should not be sold.
Hence:
"ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold. "
Sorry if that was not clear.
I don't think that the only people who "would be upset by this policy are people with a non authenticated street piece hanging in their home or forgers" but rather that Pest Control should be careful to not abuse their position.
>>>ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold. <<< No, they simply have stated publicly that they are NOT going to authenticate them which will discourage people from removing them and will certainly disuade people from passing fakes since their value will be so much less. The only people that I can understand that would be upset by this policy are people with a non authenticated street piece hanging in their home or forgers. Sorry I was under the misguided illusion that a COA was a Certificate of Authenticity (ie did Banksy do it or not?). Pest Control are refusing to give a COA to a piece that Steve Lazarides has basically said that Banksy did paint. By refusing to give it a COA they are not saying that it is not authentic but are saying that it should not be sold. Hence: "ie they do not dispute the authenticity but have decided to play God on what gets sold. " Sorry if that was not clear. I don't think that the only people who "would be upset by this policy are people with a non authenticated street piece hanging in their home or forgers" but rather that Pest Control should be careful to not abuse their position. |
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funyoung
Junior Member
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February 2008
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by funyoung on Jul 9, 2008 11:53:19 GMT 1, Is theft worse than vandalism? (cf. Silky's post above)
Is theft worse than vandalism? (cf. Silky's post above)
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by buffin on Jul 9, 2008 12:19:46 GMT 1, If Pest Control decide as a matter of policy that they are not going to authenticate street pieces then whats the problem? Don't see how thats abusing their position as all they are doing is stating a neutral position. Its therefore up to auction houses and buyers to make their own decisions based on this.
If Pest Control decide as a matter of policy that they are not going to authenticate street pieces then whats the problem? Don't see how thats abusing their position as all they are doing is stating a neutral position. Its therefore up to auction houses and buyers to make their own decisions based on this.
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gherson76
New Member
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March 2008
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by gherson76 on Jul 9, 2008 13:02:39 GMT 1, But the Pest Control policy is surely far from neutral. Take the Sotheby's "RED" Auction earlier this year. No-one could dispute the Phone Box that sold for ~$600k was not a street piece. It's provenance was "Recovered by Westminster Environmental Services". So on the one hand Banksy is gifting a street piece to a prestigious auction but on the other trying to stop anyone else from selling such works. Double standards?!?! Also Laz until about a month ago had two street works for sale - Grin Reaper on a door and Happy Copper also on a door (provenance Sotheby's December 2007). So if you tried to sell these on you couldn't? There will be lawsuits.......fact.
But the Pest Control policy is surely far from neutral. Take the Sotheby's "RED" Auction earlier this year. No-one could dispute the Phone Box that sold for ~$600k was not a street piece. It's provenance was "Recovered by Westminster Environmental Services". So on the one hand Banksy is gifting a street piece to a prestigious auction but on the other trying to stop anyone else from selling such works. Double standards?!?! Also Laz until about a month ago had two street works for sale - Grin Reaper on a door and Happy Copper also on a door (provenance Sotheby's December 2007). So if you tried to sell these on you couldn't? There will be lawsuits.......fact.
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burnz
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October 2009
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by burnz on Jul 9, 2008 13:22:49 GMT 1, unsold prints is because Britain Stops Spending Money
Watch the unemployment figures rise unless of course Brown massages them to show them decreasing.
unsold prints is because Britain Stops Spending Money
Watch the unemployment figures rise unless of course Brown massages them to show them decreasing.
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deepheat
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June 2007
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by deepheat on Jul 9, 2008 15:39:35 GMT 1, I spoke with Bloomsbury before the auction about the provs for the 3 pieces. Bloomsbury stated to me that the 2 pieces which went into the auction sale had been checked by pest control and whilst Pest control wouldn't give them COA's, were happy for Bloomsbury to auction them.
The third (Bombhugger on tiles) , Pest control asked them to withdraw from the sale on the advice of the artist.
I spoke with Bloomsbury before the auction about the provs for the 3 pieces. Bloomsbury stated to me that the 2 pieces which went into the auction sale had been checked by pest control and whilst Pest control wouldn't give them COA's, were happy for Bloomsbury to auction them.
The third (Bombhugger on tiles) , Pest control asked them to withdraw from the sale on the advice of the artist.
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lee3
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November 2009
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 9, 2008 16:06:45 GMT 1, >>>But the Pest Control policy is surely far from neutral. Take the Sotheby's "RED" Auction earlier this year. No-one could dispute the Phone Box that sold for ~$600k was not a street piece. It's provenance was "Recovered by Westminster Environmental Services".<<<<
If memory serves (and it often doesn't) the Red sale was in February on Valentines day which was prior to the announcememt that Pest Contols will no longer authenticate street pieces. There are street pieces that have been autheticated by the Banksy camp before that annoncement date and they will be free to trade forevermore.
Personally, I really can't see how any art lover would be upset with Pest Contol's stance unless of course they have a non authenticated piece in their home.
>>>Also Laz until about a month ago had two street works for sale - Grin Reaper on a door and Happy Copper also on a door (provenance Sotheby's December 2007). So if you tried to sell these on you couldn't?<<<
Again, they were probably authenticated in the past but as a buyer I would want confirmation as such.
>>>There will be lawsuits.......fact. <<<
Sadly, this is probably true but there won't be any court overturning Pest Control's official policiy to not authenticate the street work. Similarly, I'd be surprised (but have little understanding of UK law so take this with a big grain of salt) if any court would find Laz at fault because he was saying they were valid BEFORE Pest Contol announced their new policy.
There are always lawsuits and liability to deal with when we're talking money this large but I honestly believe they are doing the right thing. And as far as valuation goes, the top dollar will be paid for authentic pieces and there will be a HUGE gap down value wise to the non-authenticated but obviously real street Banksy's in circulation.
>>>But the Pest Control policy is surely far from neutral. Take the Sotheby's "RED" Auction earlier this year. No-one could dispute the Phone Box that sold for ~$600k was not a street piece. It's provenance was "Recovered by Westminster Environmental Services".<<<<
If memory serves (and it often doesn't) the Red sale was in February on Valentines day which was prior to the announcememt that Pest Contols will no longer authenticate street pieces. There are street pieces that have been autheticated by the Banksy camp before that annoncement date and they will be free to trade forevermore.
Personally, I really can't see how any art lover would be upset with Pest Contol's stance unless of course they have a non authenticated piece in their home.
>>>Also Laz until about a month ago had two street works for sale - Grin Reaper on a door and Happy Copper also on a door (provenance Sotheby's December 2007). So if you tried to sell these on you couldn't?<<<
Again, they were probably authenticated in the past but as a buyer I would want confirmation as such.
>>>There will be lawsuits.......fact. <<<
Sadly, this is probably true but there won't be any court overturning Pest Control's official policiy to not authenticate the street work. Similarly, I'd be surprised (but have little understanding of UK law so take this with a big grain of salt) if any court would find Laz at fault because he was saying they were valid BEFORE Pest Contol announced their new policy.
There are always lawsuits and liability to deal with when we're talking money this large but I honestly believe they are doing the right thing. And as far as valuation goes, the top dollar will be paid for authentic pieces and there will be a HUGE gap down value wise to the non-authenticated but obviously real street Banksy's in circulation.
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by snausages on Jul 9, 2008 16:55:22 GMT 1, Wow! Now that is good news
anyone have signed prints or originals by Orientalist? I have cash and trades! 
Wow! Now that is good news anyone have signed prints or originals by Orientalist? I have cash and trades! |
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by snausages on Jul 9, 2008 17:00:57 GMT 1, >>>An element of this is being discussed over here, or a possible other answer as to why...<<< If it was a credit crunch, we would have seen similar action across the board which was not the case.
Despite some high profile strong sales, there's been a number of Auctions at several houses with large buy in percentages all year. What makes this any different?
And I'm skeptical about the Pest Control thing anyway. The street piece with a signed certificate from Steve Laz should have been good enough. Pest Control not certifying street pieces doesn't prove or disprove anything. I also worry that Pest Control will authenticate works by friends and insiders but not regular Joes too. Oh well...
>>>An element of this is being discussed over here, or a possible other answer as to why...<<< If it was a credit crunch, we would have seen similar action across the board which was not the case. Despite some high profile strong sales, there's been a number of Auctions at several houses with large buy in percentages all year. What makes this any different? And I'm skeptical about the Pest Control thing anyway. The street piece with a signed certificate from Steve Laz should have been good enough. Pest Control not certifying street pieces doesn't prove or disprove anything. I also worry that Pest Control will authenticate works by friends and insiders but not regular Joes too. Oh well... |
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lee3
New Member
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November 2009
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by lee3 on Jul 9, 2008 17:08:06 GMT 1, >> Pest Control not certifying street pieces doesn't prove or disprove anything<<<
No, but it sure does change the value. Look no further than the Warhol red elvis or self portrait "fakes" where you've got pieces that would be worth $8+ and $3+ million respectively but are worth less than $20k without the stamp and both suits had strong cases imo. It's history like this that keeps the BIG money away from non authenticated works by any artist.
>>>I also worry that Pest Control will authenticate works by friends and insiders but not regular Joes too<<<
That is exactly what would bring lawsuits and I think you're reaching to suggest they would do such a thing today. They made their stance public on the street pieces and they will not authenticate any of them beit friends or unknown 3rd parties and to me that is the absolute fairest and right thing to do. Especially when you consider the artist's position that the work in the streets is supposed to be free of charge for all to enjoy.
>> Pest Control not certifying street pieces doesn't prove or disprove anything<<<
No, but it sure does change the value. Look no further than the Warhol red elvis or self portrait "fakes" where you've got pieces that would be worth $8+ and $3+ million respectively but are worth less than $20k without the stamp and both suits had strong cases imo. It's history like this that keeps the BIG money away from non authenticated works by any artist.
>>>I also worry that Pest Control will authenticate works by friends and insiders but not regular Joes too<<<
That is exactly what would bring lawsuits and I think you're reaching to suggest they would do such a thing today. They made their stance public on the street pieces and they will not authenticate any of them beit friends or unknown 3rd parties and to me that is the absolute fairest and right thing to do. Especially when you consider the artist's position that the work in the streets is supposed to be free of charge for all to enjoy.
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by snausages on Jul 9, 2008 17:18:10 GMT 1, Yeah prices will be hit but the real pieces will still be real. Things today are getting ridiculous although I guess a necessary evil. Or is it just a way that estates can continue to cash in on art they long ago sold?  But not until very recently has this kind of "authentication service" ever existed. Does that mean older works of art are worthless. It's a ll getting a bit silly.
And it's a bigger argument than this but if Banksy paints a mural on my property it's mine to do what I want with. He nor anyone has any right to paint on someone else's property. That free of charge thing is bullsh*t. Painting something on someone else's property and then trying to control it's life afterwards? I don't buy that.
And also I don't think I'm reaching at all. Lazarides has demonstrated their character already by in early 2007 I think it was, they said they would not authenticate street pieces. But in fact later on Lazarides himself has authenticated several street pieces as is proven by the piece in the auction you mentioned. I do not put anything past them in the least.
Yeah prices will be hit but the real pieces will still be real. Things today are getting ridiculous although I guess a necessary evil. Or is it just a way that estates can continue to cash in on art they long ago sold? But not until very recently has this kind of "authentication service" ever existed. Does that mean older works of art are worthless. It's a ll getting a bit silly. And it's a bigger argument than this but if Banksy paints a mural on my property it's mine to do what I want with. He nor anyone has any right to paint on someone else's property. That free of charge thing is bullsh*t. Painting something on someone else's property and then trying to control it's life afterwards? I don't buy that. And also I don't think I'm reaching at all. Lazarides has demonstrated their character already by in early 2007 I think it was, they said they would not authenticate street pieces. But in fact later on Lazarides himself has authenticated several street pieces as is proven by the piece in the auction you mentioned. I do not put anything past them in the least. |
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nattymatt
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September 2007
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Banksy Street Art at Auction, by nattymatt on Jul 10, 2008 2:26:21 GMT 1, Agreed!!
i have an original cardboard "BANKSY" TAG stencil that i aquired from the exhibition in Dalston about 2003.
I asked Pest control to authenticate it.
They phoned me direct and pretty much threatened to "take it off me"
Quote "WE DON'T WANT THIS IN CIRCULATION"
I think they are abusing their position to a degree, trying to dictate what should or shouldn't be allowed to be auctioned.
Provenance should be to prove that the work was done by the artist in question........
How many fake Van Goghs etc have turned up years after being sold.
You can still sell 'em and its up to the buyer to decide if its real or not...Just not in the big auction houses
Agreed!!
i have an original cardboard "BANKSY" TAG stencil that i aquired from the exhibition in Dalston about 2003.
I asked Pest control to authenticate it.
They phoned me direct and pretty much threatened to "take it off me"
Quote "WE DON'T WANT THIS IN CIRCULATION"
I think they are abusing their position to a degree, trying to dictate what should or shouldn't be allowed to be auctioned.
Provenance should be to prove that the work was done by the artist in question........
How many fake Van Goghs etc have turned up years after being sold.
You can still sell 'em and its up to the buyer to decide if its real or not...Just not in the big auction houses
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But not until very recently has this kind of "authentication service" ever existed. Does that mean older works of art are worthless. It's a ll getting a bit silly.
