Michael Jacob
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,049
Likes โข 29
October 2006
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by Michael Jacob on Feb 6, 2008 21:19:24 GMT 1, shit, ive been looking for that! my two year old did that for me on fathers day last year. thanks.
shit, ive been looking for that! my two year old did that for me on fathers day last year. thanks.
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by ricosg11 on Feb 6, 2008 21:39:38 GMT 1, All of you are idiots. Seriously, do some research and shut your mouths. Cy Twombly is one of the most influential artists of the last 100 years. You know, like how the Beatles affected every piece of music that came after them. Kinda like that. yea
All of you are idiots. Seriously, do some research and shut your mouths. Cy Twombly is one of the most influential artists of the last 100 years. You know, like how the Beatles affected every piece of music that came after them. Kinda like that. yea
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by graeme501 on Feb 6, 2008 21:46:12 GMT 1, All of you are idiots. Seriously, do some research and shut your mouths. Cy Twombly is one of the most influential artists of the last 100 years. You know, like how the Beatles affected every piece of music that came after them. Kinda like that. yea
he could be one of th most influential artists of the last 1000000 years but that is a scribble
All of you are idiots. Seriously, do some research and shut your mouths. Cy Twombly is one of the most influential artists of the last 100 years. You know, like how the Beatles affected every piece of music that came after them. Kinda like that. yea he could be one of th most influential artists of the last 1000000 years but that is a scribble
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gozgoz
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,617
Likes โข 7
September 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by gozgoz on Feb 6, 2008 21:51:19 GMT 1, All of you are idiots. Seriously, do some research and shut your mouths. Cy Twombly is one of the most influential artists of the last 100 years. You know, like how the Beatles affected every piece of music that came after them. Kinda like that. yea
yeah that that dont mean everything the beatles put out is gold.
kinda like how this isnt.
All of you are idiots. Seriously, do some research and shut your mouths. Cy Twombly is one of the most influential artists of the last 100 years. You know, like how the Beatles affected every piece of music that came after them. Kinda like that. yea yeah that that dont mean everything the beatles put out is gold. kinda like how this isnt.
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by hollywouldifhecoul on Feb 6, 2008 21:54:52 GMT 1, Ricos - Not many people are actually familiar with Twombly's work. Granted, his artistic credibility can by no means be challenged. However, to the common public, upon viewing, this appears to be no more than crazyjake's Father's Day gift. I had the opportunity to view a Twombly exhibit at the Menil Gallery in Houston. I can't say that I was impressed. It was archaic, at best. And $2mil USD? Give me a break. This piece is for pure ownership sake. No artistic value IMHO.
Point being that I don't think it's necessary to patronize forum members for voicing their opinion. Can you honestly state that if you had the $2mil you would actually buy this piece? I think type's point was that he couldn't believe the above mentioned piece has a $2mil asking price.
Ricos - Not many people are actually familiar with Twombly's work. Granted, his artistic credibility can by no means be challenged. However, to the common public, upon viewing, this appears to be no more than crazyjake's Father's Day gift. I had the opportunity to view a Twombly exhibit at the Menil Gallery in Houston. I can't say that I was impressed. It was archaic, at best. And $2mil USD? Give me a break. This piece is for pure ownership sake. No artistic value IMHO.
Point being that I don't think it's necessary to patronize forum members for voicing their opinion. Can you honestly state that if you had the $2mil you would actually buy this piece? I think type's point was that he couldn't believe the above mentioned piece has a $2mil asking price.
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by ricosg11 on Feb 6, 2008 22:07:11 GMT 1, I apologize for coming off like an ass
Well the photo is terrible, I have a book of his and there are lots of similar pieces to this one which are fantastic. I dont think the details of this come through in the picture shown. My main gripe with this and most of the forum in general is that people are so quick to write something like this off, but happily lap up the work of other artists on here that I will not name which put out crap. I understand to each their own, but to knock a guy like Twombly the way the people above did is simple ignorance. There is so much emotion and raw energy coming through this guys work. As a pioneer of american expressionism along with Pollock, he warrants the prices he does. I saw his exhibition at Gagosian in NY a few weeks ago and it may have only had 5 or 6 massive works, but my they were amazing.
And no I could never afford a Twombly, so I got the next best thing (well, best thing imo) a Parla.
I apologize for coming off like an ass
Well the photo is terrible, I have a book of his and there are lots of similar pieces to this one which are fantastic. I dont think the details of this come through in the picture shown. My main gripe with this and most of the forum in general is that people are so quick to write something like this off, but happily lap up the work of other artists on here that I will not name which put out crap. I understand to each their own, but to knock a guy like Twombly the way the people above did is simple ignorance. There is so much emotion and raw energy coming through this guys work. As a pioneer of american expressionism along with Pollock, he warrants the prices he does. I saw his exhibition at Gagosian in NY a few weeks ago and it may have only had 5 or 6 massive works, but my they were amazing.
And no I could never afford a Twombly, so I got the next best thing (well, best thing imo) a Parla.
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Grafter
Artist
New Member
Posts โข 717
Likes โข 231
February 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by Grafter on Feb 6, 2008 22:07:45 GMT 1, It's NOT s**t......
It's BLOODY EXPENSIVE S**T...!!!!
It's NOT s**t......
It's BLOODY EXPENSIVE S**T...!!!!
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by ricosg11 on Feb 6, 2008 22:08:07 GMT 1, And the Beatles reference is my own, thank you.
And the Beatles reference is my own, thank you.
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by mose on Feb 6, 2008 22:14:19 GMT 1, type, perhaps if you intelligently critiqued Twombly's work your opinion would actually provoke thought and be worth something to others. Merely dismissing something as a 'piece of s**t' is just the same narrow-minded, wasteful attitude that many display when dismissing our 'scene'.
Twombly is a great comparison to Banksy in some ways. Both are legends and are revered in certain quarters, both have been criticized for being 'un-artistic', simplistic, and childish, and, for many, both suffer when their pieces are viewed in isolation and apart from the impact their careers had on the art world.
type, perhaps if you intelligently critiqued Twombly's work your opinion would actually provoke thought and be worth something to others. Merely dismissing something as a 'piece of s**t' is just the same narrow-minded, wasteful attitude that many display when dismissing our 'scene'.
Twombly is a great comparison to Banksy in some ways. Both are legends and are revered in certain quarters, both have been criticized for being 'un-artistic', simplistic, and childish, and, for many, both suffer when their pieces are viewed in isolation and apart from the impact their careers had on the art world.
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seidbereit
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,743
Likes โข 5
November 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by seidbereit on Feb 6, 2008 22:25:51 GMT 1, I've previously never heard of Cy Twombly but I really like that piece. I could easily spend a few hours looking at it.
How big is the piece itself?
I've previously never heard of Cy Twombly but I really like that piece. I could easily spend a few hours looking at it.
How big is the piece itself?
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headzup
New Member
Posts โข 141
Likes โข 1
January 2008
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by headzup on Feb 6, 2008 22:30:40 GMT 1, a small stamp
a small stamp
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by hollywouldifhecoul on Feb 6, 2008 22:40:53 GMT 1, A Parla, huh?? Nice setup you've got going on. I do feel his work leans more towards the graffiti side, which is favored IMO. He's got some hot pieces.
But I do agree with your gripe concerning the majority of the forum members' taste in art. Not many branch out into other art avenues. But I guess we should take into consideration the forum we are on. This is a Banksy forum! I don't expect to discuss the ventures of Spanish Renaissance artists on this forum. And thus approach the taste of others accordingly.
A Parla, huh?? Nice setup you've got going on. I do feel his work leans more towards the graffiti side, which is favored IMO. He's got some hot pieces.
But I do agree with your gripe concerning the majority of the forum members' taste in art. Not many branch out into other art avenues. But I guess we should take into consideration the forum we are on. This is a Banksy forum! I don't expect to discuss the ventures of Spanish Renaissance artists on this forum. And thus approach the taste of others accordingly.
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jamesreeve5
Blank Rank
Posts โข 0
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September 2012
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by jamesreeve5 on Feb 6, 2008 22:59:08 GMT 1, I'd say a fairer musical comparison would be Cy Twombly to Albert Ayler. But not many people know who that is (but up until the start of this thread it looked like not many forum members knew who Cy Twombly was either)...
I have to stand behind ricosg11 on this. It's really foolish to condemn something that's not figurative and made with spraypaint, and I think the reactions on this board are a good barometer of the forum's ignorance about art as a whole.
I have been lucky enough to see Twombly's illustrations of the Iliad in the Philadelphia museum of art and they are amazing, as are his Four Seasons in the Tate Modern. Unfortunately you can't buy these pieces so someone ended up buying this smaller piece (which is still beautiful in its own right) instead. Sort of like all of you guys who can't afford a Banksy canvas so you go buy a print instead.
Type, there is nothing wrong with liking an artist because they are influential. It just means that you understand more than what is immediately there. You can like something because of the amazing story behind it and the way it fits into history, not just because of the way the paint is arranged on the canvas
It just looks completely ignorant to sit here and have forum members group bash an established artist like Cy Twombly, lets all save that for the Thomas Kinkade forum to do alright?
I'd say a fairer musical comparison would be Cy Twombly to Albert Ayler. But not many people know who that is (but up until the start of this thread it looked like not many forum members knew who Cy Twombly was either)...
I have to stand behind ricosg11 on this. It's really foolish to condemn something that's not figurative and made with spraypaint, and I think the reactions on this board are a good barometer of the forum's ignorance about art as a whole.
I have been lucky enough to see Twombly's illustrations of the Iliad in the Philadelphia museum of art and they are amazing, as are his Four Seasons in the Tate Modern. Unfortunately you can't buy these pieces so someone ended up buying this smaller piece (which is still beautiful in its own right) instead. Sort of like all of you guys who can't afford a Banksy canvas so you go buy a print instead.
Type, there is nothing wrong with liking an artist because they are influential. It just means that you understand more than what is immediately there. You can like something because of the amazing story behind it and the way it fits into history, not just because of the way the paint is arranged on the canvas
It just looks completely ignorant to sit here and have forum members group bash an established artist like Cy Twombly, lets all save that for the Thomas Kinkade forum to do alright?
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f5ers
New Member
Posts โข 563
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by f5ers on Feb 6, 2008 23:14:57 GMT 1, James.. this is fucken crap. Please explain why this piece is a good piece?? Its in no way pleasing to the eye, witty, attractive, sexy, conceptual, creative etc etc. It only falls into the crap bracket.... Explain what its about. Explain why its worth 2 Mill. Its for people who have more money than sense..
James.. this is fucken crap. Please explain why this piece is a good piece?? Its in no way pleasing to the eye, witty, attractive, sexy, conceptual, creative etc etc. It only falls into the crap bracket.... Explain what its about. Explain why its worth 2 Mill. Its for people who have more money than sense..
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gozgoz
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,617
Likes โข 7
September 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by gozgoz on Feb 6, 2008 23:21:58 GMT 1, i honestly think its not fair for people to start saying others are ignorant etc etc. its just taste in art. its got nothing to do with which type of art u like makes u a better person/more mature/more articulate person...
u two sound like u stumbled upon a METALLICA forum and am trying to say their music sucks compared to your MICHAEL BOLTON.
ITS A DIFFERENCE IN OPINION.
CHILL OUT EVERYONE!
i honestly think its not fair for people to start saying others are ignorant etc etc. its just taste in art. its got nothing to do with which type of art u like makes u a better person/more mature/more articulate person...
u two sound like u stumbled upon a METALLICA forum and am trying to say their music sucks compared to your MICHAEL BOLTON.
ITS A DIFFERENCE IN OPINION.
CHILL OUT EVERYONE!
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jamesreeve5
Blank Rank
Posts โข 0
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September 2012
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f5ers
New Member
Posts โข 563
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by f5ers on Feb 6, 2008 23:25:05 GMT 1, I didn't say your taste sucks.. i just said what is good about it and what is it about??
I didn't say your taste sucks.. i just said what is good about it and what is it about??
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jamesreeve5
Blank Rank
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September 2012
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by jamesreeve5 on Feb 6, 2008 23:26:56 GMT 1, i know you didn't f5er's, and I am not being smug in my response on the reading, but the key to understanding all abstract expressionist painting lies in reading Clement Greenberg
i know you didn't f5er's, and I am not being smug in my response on the reading, but the key to understanding all abstract expressionist painting lies in reading Clement Greenberg
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jamesreeve5
Blank Rank
Posts โข 0
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September 2012
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by jamesreeve5 on Feb 6, 2008 23:27:37 GMT 1, what is wrong with the debate here gozgoz?
what is wrong with the debate here gozgoz?
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by dave313perry on Feb 6, 2008 23:29:53 GMT 1, A world apart from us lot on here,
im happy with my cheapo originals, and if they ever do become worth 2million i will happily sell to a stuck up arsehole, travel the world and give f**k loads to charity.
all this talk of 50k + bollox is not why im here - feel free to keep this thread going but im lost
anyone got a nice olive Shat-at for sale???
A world apart from us lot on here,
im happy with my cheapo originals, and if they ever do become worth 2million i will happily sell to a stuck up arsehole, travel the world and give f**k loads to charity.
all this talk of 50k + bollox is not why im here - feel free to keep this thread going but im lost
anyone got a nice olive Shat-at for sale???
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by ricosg11 on Feb 6, 2008 23:33:03 GMT 1, I think mr Banksy said it perfectly. "the joy of not being sold anything." I would use this statement to explain Twombly's art. Im sure there is some meaning or feeling Mr Twombly was thinking while making this piece, but to me, the beauty in it is that there is no direct meaning or clear message instantly to the viewer. You can use your own thoughts and experiences to interpret it. Sometimes, work that is so immediate and for lack of a better phrase "spoon fed" to the audience can get quite boring after a while. Where as something like this can be reinterpreted every single day.
I think mr Banksy said it perfectly. "the joy of not being sold anything." I would use this statement to explain Twombly's art. Im sure there is some meaning or feeling Mr Twombly was thinking while making this piece, but to me, the beauty in it is that there is no direct meaning or clear message instantly to the viewer. You can use your own thoughts and experiences to interpret it. Sometimes, work that is so immediate and for lack of a better phrase "spoon fed" to the audience can get quite boring after a while. Where as something like this can be reinterpreted every single day.
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f5ers
New Member
Posts โข 563
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by f5ers on Feb 6, 2008 23:34:11 GMT 1, I don't need to read someone's elses opinion about conceptual or modern art to realise this is pretty much a quick scribble. I think theres some scribbled writing in there that could read i'm lauughing my fat rich ass off.. you gotta screw your eyes up but its definately there
I don't need to read someone's elses opinion about conceptual or modern art to realise this is pretty much a quick scribble. I think theres some scribbled writing in there that could read i'm lauughing my fat rich ass off.. you gotta screw your eyes up but its definately there
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by alsbabar on Feb 6, 2008 23:38:20 GMT 1, Cy Twombly works are legendary, i love his stuff, always have.
Cy Twombly works are legendary, i love his stuff, always have.
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by mose on Feb 6, 2008 23:43:03 GMT 1, James.. this is f**ken crap. Please explain why this piece is a good piece?? Its in no way pleasing to the eye, witty, attractive, sexy, conceptual, creative etc etc. It only falls into the crap bracket.... Explain what its about. Explain why its worth 2 Mill. Its for people who have more money than sense..
It's worth 2 million because someone will pay that for it. Valuation does not equal, or even usually reflect, merit.
Of all the adjectives you used, I strongly disagree with stating that it is not witty, conceptual, and creative. You have to understand the time frame this piece was done in. It is from 1958, when abstract art was far rarer and representational/figurative still was the dominant, accepted form. While it may not appear groundbreaking now, this was raw, cerebral, revolutionary work at the time. Pollock, and Twombly, changed the game forever with their 1950's work.
This particular piece, like much of Twombly's catalogue, celebrates the power of the line and mark-making, elevating it to become the primary focus. In this work, the line isn't being used to form an image, it is the image. The line isn't being used to depict a subject, it is the subject.
I strongly recommend that, prior to condemning it and closing yourself to it, you experience a Twombly work in one of the many museum's worldwide that display him. That is really the key, at least for me. Twombly's work is an exeperience, it is interactive, emotional, and alive. If it grabs you, take the next step and read up on Twombly. Gain insight into the intelligence and the methods behind his work. There is much richness there that can benefit your life by expanding your horizons.
Or, you may still think his work is garbage. that is your right.
James.. this is f**ken crap. Please explain why this piece is a good piece?? Its in no way pleasing to the eye, witty, attractive, sexy, conceptual, creative etc etc. It only falls into the crap bracket.... Explain what its about. Explain why its worth 2 Mill. Its for people who have more money than sense.. It's worth 2 million because someone will pay that for it. Valuation does not equal, or even usually reflect, merit. Of all the adjectives you used, I strongly disagree with stating that it is not witty, conceptual, and creative. You have to understand the time frame this piece was done in. It is from 1958, when abstract art was far rarer and representational/figurative still was the dominant, accepted form. While it may not appear groundbreaking now, this was raw, cerebral, revolutionary work at the time. Pollock, and Twombly, changed the game forever with their 1950's work. This particular piece, like much of Twombly's catalogue, celebrates the power of the line and mark-making, elevating it to become the primary focus. In this work, the line isn't being used to form an image, it is the image. The line isn't being used to depict a subject, it is the subject. I strongly recommend that, prior to condemning it and closing yourself to it, you experience a Twombly work in one of the many museum's worldwide that display him. That is really the key, at least for me. Twombly's work is an exeperience, it is interactive, emotional, and alive. If it grabs you, take the next step and read up on Twombly. Gain insight into the intelligence and the methods behind his work. There is much richness there that can benefit your life by expanding your horizons. Or, you may still think his work is garbage. that is your right.
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by crazyarsemother on Feb 6, 2008 23:44:13 GMT 1, We sit here in a privilaged position of being able to look back at individual pieces of art over the last 100 years and judge them on their own aesthetic merits. Much of the worth of these works becomes apparent when they are placed within their historical context as James is pointing. In 50 years time people will look back at a stencil of a cartoon rat with a hat on and say ยฃ18,000 - so what - I can do that. In fact as Jed has proved its not exactly hard.
We sit here in a privilaged position of being able to look back at individual pieces of art over the last 100 years and judge them on their own aesthetic merits. Much of the worth of these works becomes apparent when they are placed within their historical context as James is pointing. In 50 years time people will look back at a stencil of a cartoon rat with a hat on and say ยฃ18,000 - so what - I can do that. In fact as Jed has proved its not exactly hard.
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jamesreeve5
Blank Rank
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September 2012
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by jamesreeve5 on Feb 6, 2008 23:45:52 GMT 1, I'm glad you can see through all of that academic mumbo jumbo for what it really is f5. I know of an artist who perfectly agrees with you opinion.
www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.8.30.224414.169.html
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Gurn
New Member
Posts โข 894
Likes โข 904
August 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by Gurn on Feb 6, 2008 23:48:33 GMT 1, An interesting debate for sure,I can see both sides of the story here.To raise a thread about Expressionism and its merits(and financial value) on a Banksy forum was always gonna be interesting.Especially as this amount of money is way beyond a large majority on here.James you appear to be a very well versed(if a little patronising) fellow on American art,so thanks for enlightening us numbskulls...for my tuppence worth though,If I had 2million to spend on art it wouldn't be on this.
An interesting debate for sure,I can see both sides of the story here.To raise a thread about Expressionism and its merits(and financial value) on a Banksy forum was always gonna be interesting.Especially as this amount of money is way beyond a large majority on here.James you appear to be a very well versed(if a little patronising) fellow on American art,so thanks for enlightening us numbskulls...for my tuppence worth though,If I had 2million to spend on art it wouldn't be on this.
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f5ers
New Member
Posts โข 563
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by f5ers on Feb 6, 2008 23:50:49 GMT 1, James.. very evasive.. but you never explained what was so good about the scribble
James.. very evasive.. but you never explained what was so good about the scribble
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For anyone who thought prices @ Bonhams were nuts!, by crazyarsemother on Feb 6, 2008 23:51:52 GMT 1, Oh my god that link is hideous.
Oh my god that link is hideous.
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