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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by Deleted on Sept 22, 2008 17:59:12 GMT 1, Nice. I love that one Harveyn, i am v much liking his new style of work also.
Nice. I love that one Harveyn, i am v much liking his new style of work also.
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by iwouldfollow youanywhere on Sept 22, 2008 19:03:52 GMT 1, hilarious
keep up the "good work"
you've actually inspired me to go buy a prit-stick. Now when do i get the call from 'edge art'?
hilarious
keep up the "good work"
you've actually inspired me to go buy a prit-stick. Now when do i get the call from 'edge art'?
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by manchestermike on Sept 22, 2008 19:11:40 GMT 1, hilarious keep up the "good work" you've actually inspired me to go buy a prit-stick. Now when do i get the call from 'edge art'?
Give me a shout when you've removed the stick from your arse and we can talk ;D
hilarious keep up the "good work" you've actually inspired me to go buy a prit-stick. Now when do i get the call from 'edge art'? Give me a shout when you've removed the stick from your arse and we can talk ;D
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by giiiant on Sept 22, 2008 19:16:42 GMT 1, not as bad as i want it to be so i cant spend 15 minutes thinking up a really witty putdown but it still costs about 4x what it should
keep it up and you'll be selling for above cost on ebay in no time (that is every artists dream right)
not as bad as i want it to be so i cant spend 15 minutes thinking up a really witty putdown but it still costs about 4x what it should
keep it up and you'll be selling for above cost on ebay in no time (that is every artists dream right)
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craigf
Full Member
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May 2007
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by craigf on Sept 22, 2008 19:22:09 GMT 1, The ladies nipples are visible, that must be a good thing
The ladies nipples are visible, that must be a good thing
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Francis
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,571
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September 2007
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by Francis on Sept 22, 2008 20:39:38 GMT 1, Anyone else going to put this in the kid's room?
Anyone else going to put this in the kid's room?
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by iwouldfollow youanywhere on Sept 22, 2008 21:08:15 GMT 1, Anyone else going to put this in the kid's room?
it looks like it came from the kids room
Anyone else going to put this in the kid's room? it looks like it came from the kids room
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by iwouldfollow youanywhere on Sept 22, 2008 21:14:33 GMT 1, hilarious keep up the "good work" you've actually inspired me to go buy a prit-stick. Now when do i get the call from 'edge art'? Give me a shout when you've removed the stick from your arse and we can talk ;D
seriously, why do you sell shit like this?
your lack of quality control and scooping up of execrable "talent" from this forum makes your whole enterprise seem pretty amateurish. Maybe i'm just in a pissy mood but cack like this really annoys me
I'll be interested to hear how you defend this 'artist' you represent, and if it goes beyond telling me to shove stuff up my arse
hilarious keep up the "good work" you've actually inspired me to go buy a prit-stick. Now when do i get the call from 'edge art'? Give me a shout when you've removed the stick from your arse and we can talk ;D seriously, why do you sell shit like this? your lack of quality control and scooping up of execrable "talent" from this forum makes your whole enterprise seem pretty amateurish. Maybe i'm just in a pissy mood but cack like this really annoys me I'll be interested to hear how you defend this 'artist' you represent, and if it goes beyond telling me to shove stuff up my arse
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Deleted
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January 1970
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by Deleted on Sept 22, 2008 21:22:47 GMT 1, Give me a shout when you've removed the stick from your arse and we can talk ;D seriously, why do you sell s**t like this? your lack of quality control and scooping up of execrable "talent" from this forum makes your whole enterprise seem pretty amateurish. Maybe i'm just in a pissy mood but cack like this really annoys me I'll be interested to hear how you defend this 'artist' you represent, and if it goes beyond telling me to shove stuff up my arse
I for one have seen this chap working in his studio, he does a lot more work than you see on here, whatever you may think of his work he takes time and he doesnt rush it, i have several of his pieces and know a few others who also like and collect it. Surely you can see that not every piece of art is going to get everyones approval? if i dislike an a piece of work i dont ever feel the need to say anything bad against the artist as i assume they have worked over the piece and its what they wanted it to be good or bad. If its not for you then so be it but i dont see why you should want to question others for their taste in this art?.
Give me a shout when you've removed the stick from your arse and we can talk ;D seriously, why do you sell s**t like this? your lack of quality control and scooping up of execrable "talent" from this forum makes your whole enterprise seem pretty amateurish. Maybe i'm just in a pissy mood but cack like this really annoys me I'll be interested to hear how you defend this 'artist' you represent, and if it goes beyond telling me to shove stuff up my arse I for one have seen this chap working in his studio, he does a lot more work than you see on here, whatever you may think of his work he takes time and he doesnt rush it, i have several of his pieces and know a few others who also like and collect it. Surely you can see that not every piece of art is going to get everyones approval? if i dislike an a piece of work i dont ever feel the need to say anything bad against the artist as i assume they have worked over the piece and its what they wanted it to be good or bad. If its not for you then so be it but i dont see why you should want to question others for their taste in this art?.
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by iwouldfollow youanywhere on Sept 22, 2008 21:32:35 GMT 1, no wizbong, please don't trot out the "everyone has different tastes" line.
so you have been in his 'studio', what does he do in there? channel the spirits of BAST and supine?
i just cannot understand how people, who seem intelligent enough, like yourself, don't see how this guys work is crude in the worst possible sense of the word? He clearly aspires to be like the artists i mentioned above, yet he just does not have the level of subtlety, skill and aesthetic judgement that makes those two stand out from the crowd...
no wizbong, please don't trot out the "everyone has different tastes" line.
so you have been in his 'studio', what does he do in there? channel the spirits of BAST and supine?
i just cannot understand how people, who seem intelligent enough, like yourself, don't see how this guys work is crude in the worst possible sense of the word? He clearly aspires to be like the artists i mentioned above, yet he just does not have the level of subtlety, skill and aesthetic judgement that makes those two stand out from the crowd...
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Deleted
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January 1970
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by Deleted on Sept 22, 2008 21:36:59 GMT 1, no wizbong, please don't trot out the "everyone has different tastes" line. so you have been in his 'studio', what does he do in there? channel the spirits of BAST and supine? i just cannot understand how people, who seem intelligent enough, like yourself, don't see how this guys work is crude in the worst possible sense of the word? He clearly aspires to be like the artists i mentioned above, yet he just does not have the level of subtlety, skill and aesthetic judgement that makes those two stand out from the crowd...
Yes i have been to his "Studio" for it is a studio, i have seen the way he works and i like the end product, i dont see what else i can say? im not about defending anything here and i have no call to explain my taste to you or anybody else. I like Bast and Supine also but that doesnt mean i cannot like any other collage works.
no wizbong, please don't trot out the "everyone has different tastes" line. so you have been in his 'studio', what does he do in there? channel the spirits of BAST and supine? i just cannot understand how people, who seem intelligent enough, like yourself, don't see how this guys work is crude in the worst possible sense of the word? He clearly aspires to be like the artists i mentioned above, yet he just does not have the level of subtlety, skill and aesthetic judgement that makes those two stand out from the crowd... Yes i have been to his "Studio" for it is a studio, i have seen the way he works and i like the end product, i dont see what else i can say? im not about defending anything here and i have no call to explain my taste to you or anybody else. I like Bast and Supine also but that doesnt mean i cannot like any other collage works.
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by iwouldfollow youanywhere on Sept 22, 2008 21:43:21 GMT 1, sorry wizbong but he just doesn't have "it"
i can't really explain it but it is so glaringly obvious to me that this work is beyond bad i get frustrated when others can't see it too...
never mind.
sorry wizbong but he just doesn't have "it"
i can't really explain it but it is so glaringly obvious to me that this work is beyond bad i get frustrated when others can't see it too...
never mind.
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by Deleted on Sept 22, 2008 21:46:33 GMT 1, sorry wizbong but he just doesn't have "it" i can't really explain it but it is so glaringly obvious to me that this work is beyond bad i get frustrated when others can't see it too... never mind.
Hahaha i absolutely respect your views and taste iwouldfollowyouanywhere but switch that around to my views and taste and i get just as frustrated when you cant see why i like it hahaha, i love that we all like different things and i respect others tastes and would fight for that (though im rubbish at fighting).
sorry wizbong but he just doesn't have "it" i can't really explain it but it is so glaringly obvious to me that this work is beyond bad i get frustrated when others can't see it too... never mind. Hahaha i absolutely respect your views and taste iwouldfollowyouanywhere but switch that around to my views and taste and i get just as frustrated when you cant see why i like it hahaha, i love that we all like different things and i respect others tastes and would fight for that (though im rubbish at fighting).
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by manchestermike on Sept 22, 2008 22:43:02 GMT 1, Give me a shout when you've removed the stick from your arse and we can talk ;D seriously, why do you sell s**t like this? your lack of quality control and scooping up of execrable "talent" from this forum makes your whole enterprise seem pretty amateurish. Maybe i'm just in a pissy mood but cack like this really annoys me I'll be interested to hear how you defend this 'artist' you represent, and if it goes beyond telling me to shove stuff up my arse
As Wizbong said, isn't art subjective? One man's trash is another man's treasure and vice versa. What may be 'cack' to you other people like and I'm sure you like works others don't.
I don't have to defend any of the artists on Edge Art and you will notice that I don't usually comment as I appreciate everyone has different views, but when you bring either me or Edge Art into the equation of course I will retort.
You comment on me scooping up "talent" from this forum - I work with 4 artists who came on board directly from here: I Am Cxxx, Dogbyte, LET and Martin Whatson... not exactly "scooping up" is it??
And for the record, the stick from your arse comment is all to do with your "online persona" rather than any comments you made about me, Edge Art or any artists I work with... look at you last chunk of posts... as well as having a go at countless forumites you manage to have a dig whether overtly or thinly veiled at works by Bast, D*Face, Insect and Faile... so I Am Cxxx seems in good company.
Maybe you just need to sit back and realise people can have different tastes to you and not be wrong
Give me a shout when you've removed the stick from your arse and we can talk ;D seriously, why do you sell s**t like this? your lack of quality control and scooping up of execrable "talent" from this forum makes your whole enterprise seem pretty amateurish. Maybe i'm just in a pissy mood but cack like this really annoys me I'll be interested to hear how you defend this 'artist' you represent, and if it goes beyond telling me to shove stuff up my arse As Wizbong said, isn't art subjective? One man's trash is another man's treasure and vice versa. What may be 'cack' to you other people like and I'm sure you like works others don't. I don't have to defend any of the artists on Edge Art and you will notice that I don't usually comment as I appreciate everyone has different views, but when you bring either me or Edge Art into the equation of course I will retort. You comment on me scooping up "talent" from this forum - I work with 4 artists who came on board directly from here: I Am Cxxx, Dogbyte, LET and Martin Whatson... not exactly "scooping up" is it?? And for the record, the stick from your arse comment is all to do with your "online persona" rather than any comments you made about me, Edge Art or any artists I work with... look at you last chunk of posts... as well as having a go at countless forumites you manage to have a dig whether overtly or thinly veiled at works by Bast, D*Face, Insect and Faile... so I Am Cxxx seems in good company. Maybe you just need to sit back and realise people can have different tastes to you and not be wrong
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by iwouldfollow youanywhere on Sept 22, 2008 23:05:37 GMT 1, not that it matters but what about the prodigiously-talented danny o'connor?
also i think you'll find i am a serious Faile fan, and the BAST piece you suppose i was criticising is actually one i own.
as for having a pop at "forumites" then you are probably correct. but can you blame me? anyway not sure what relevance all that has, except to people like yourself who value number of posts and actually can be arsed to read old ones for ammo!
not that it matters but what about the prodigiously-talented danny o'connor?
also i think you'll find i am a serious Faile fan, and the BAST piece you suppose i was criticising is actually one i own.
as for having a pop at "forumites" then you are probably correct. but can you blame me? anyway not sure what relevance all that has, except to people like yourself who value number of posts and actually can be arsed to read old ones for ammo!
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by manchestermike on Sept 22, 2008 23:09:59 GMT 1, not that it matters but what about the prodigiously-talented danny o'connor? also i think you'll find i am a serious Faile fan, and the BAST piece you suppose i was criticising is actually one i own. as for having a pop at "forumites" then you are probably correct. but can you blame me? anyway not sure what relevance all that has, except to people like yourself who value number of posts and actually can be arsed to read old ones for ammo!
What about him? Never assume something is true just because you think it is...
And what has number of posts got to do with anything? Has no value whatsoever to this or any conversation...
not that it matters but what about the prodigiously-talented danny o'connor? also i think you'll find i am a serious Faile fan, and the BAST piece you suppose i was criticising is actually one i own. as for having a pop at "forumites" then you are probably correct. but can you blame me? anyway not sure what relevance all that has, except to people like yourself who value number of posts and actually can be arsed to read old ones for ammo! What about him? Never assume something is true just because you think it is... And what has number of posts got to do with anything? Has no value whatsoever to this or any conversation...
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Deleted
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January 1970
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by Deleted on Sept 22, 2008 23:10:18 GMT 1, I like Dannys work too
I like Dannys work too
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by iwouldfollow youanywhere on Sept 22, 2008 23:43:02 GMT 1, What about him? Never assume something is true just because you think it is...
as i said, i don't much care, but, either you came across his stuff on this forum, and added him to your site..
..or you knew about him before, pointed him to this place to drum up some interest, then began selling when you felt the waters were warm. Or maybe you are old friends who bumped into each other on here by coincidence.
but, whatever, good luck with your enterprise. You certainly seem to have a couple of regular customers on here to keep you going anyway.
my ramblings about posts were more due to surprise that you bothered to go back and read my old ones...
What about him? Never assume something is true just because you think it is... as i said, i don't much care, but, either you came across his stuff on this forum, and added him to your site.. ..or you knew about him before, pointed him to this place to drum up some interest, then began selling when you felt the waters were warm. Or maybe you are old friends who bumped into each other on here by coincidence. but, whatever, good luck with your enterprise. You certainly seem to have a couple of regular customers on here to keep you going anyway. my ramblings about posts were more due to surprise that you bothered to go back and read my old ones...
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by James Smith 77 on Sept 22, 2008 23:52:29 GMT 1,
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nacional
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,734
๐๐ป 227
August 2007
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by nacional on Sept 22, 2008 23:55:10 GMT 1, Well, for what its worth I think the collage is rather good indeed and I am going to put my hard earned pelf down to buy one.......
Well, for what its worth I think the collage is rather good indeed and I am going to put my hard earned pelf down to buy one.......
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brun
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 879
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December 2007
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by brun on Sept 23, 2008 2:51:57 GMT 1, i like em , cut and paste style is cool .....bast / faile / banksy /etc have all been inspired by others .........
i like em , cut and paste style is cool .....bast / faile / banksy /etc have all been inspired by others .........
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sfdoddsy
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 267
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August 2008
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by sfdoddsy on Sept 23, 2008 5:17:48 GMT 1, Just to be different, I strongly prefer the earlier stuff on EdgeArt to these. At least it has a distinct style, whereas this blends into everyone else's stuff for my money.
I've considered buying 'Butcher', but it's a little pricey for an unknown and shipping would be a bugger. But these don't really tempt me at all.
Just to be different, I strongly prefer the earlier stuff on EdgeArt to these. At least it has a distinct style, whereas this blends into everyone else's stuff for my money.
I've considered buying 'Butcher', but it's a little pricey for an unknown and shipping would be a bugger. But these don't really tempt me at all.
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jon11
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 392
๐๐ป 3
June 2007
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by jon11 on Sept 23, 2008 8:13:31 GMT 1, What a C***! - not you C*** - followyouanywhere - what a C***! followyouanywhere with pound signs attached to the end of it - f**k off flip monkey - give new artists a chance - take on board mayb edge is offering something different to other urban galleries - ie up and coming artists and alternative styles
i like what you're doing C*** your work is definately coming on a lot - was impressed with the shots from the studio with wizbong - hope this edition goes well for you
kills me that some C***s on this forum pass such damning judgement on ARTISTS - it's all about profitability these days on here - not about the scene as a whole - diversity street work - I AM C*** is obviously a serious artist to have a studio and be producing quality finished work - he's not set up on the back of this forum nor relies on it for success - some C***s act like they have the right to say - you're no good pal - pack up your gear - give up and f**k off back to morrisons - probably on the deli - this guys doing what he loves and believes in as an artist - if you love art and the scene have some fuckin respect - it's like baring your sole showing new art to someone and the critisism on here is just low and spiteful
blah... anyway - im lovin your work (and others i've shown it to) - not this one as it's pretty dark and i'm a bit soft - but i have been thinking about another beauty of yours that wizbong was kind enough to tip me off about - cash is tight at the moment - but i'm working on it - i'll post the pic - in the hope that the slating off of some C***s on here will devalue it and make it affordable to me!
i heard a whisper you were doing a show in manchester with edge - i'll be all over that been really wanting to see your work in person i'm guessing photos dont do it justice
peace out all - as that C*** pimp once said - it's C*** time!
once more just cos i can... get all over this!
have a great and productive day at work all - i sacked my new manager yesterday and now i am all f**kin over it... C*** TIME!
What a C***! - not you C*** - followyouanywhere - what a C***! followyouanywhere with pound signs attached to the end of it - f**k off flip monkey - give new artists a chance - take on board mayb edge is offering something different to other urban galleries - ie up and coming artists and alternative styles i like what you're doing C*** your work is definately coming on a lot - was impressed with the shots from the studio with wizbong - hope this edition goes well for you kills me that some C***s on this forum pass such damning judgement on ARTISTS - it's all about profitability these days on here - not about the scene as a whole - diversity street work - I AM C*** is obviously a serious artist to have a studio and be producing quality finished work - he's not set up on the back of this forum nor relies on it for success - some C***s act like they have the right to say - you're no good pal - pack up your gear - give up and f**k off back to morrisons - probably on the deli - this guys doing what he loves and believes in as an artist - if you love art and the scene have some fuckin respect - it's like baring your sole showing new art to someone and the critisism on here is just low and spiteful blah... anyway - im lovin your work (and others i've shown it to) - not this one as it's pretty dark and i'm a bit soft - but i have been thinking about another beauty of yours that wizbong was kind enough to tip me off about - cash is tight at the moment - but i'm working on it - i'll post the pic - in the hope that the slating off of some C***s on here will devalue it and make it affordable to me! i heard a whisper you were doing a show in manchester with edge - i'll be all over that been really wanting to see your work in person i'm guessing photos dont do it justice peace out all - as that C*** pimp once said - it's C*** time! once more just cos i can... get all over this! have a great and productive day at work all - i sacked my new manager yesterday and now i am all f**kin over it... C*** TIME!
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by manchestermike on Sept 23, 2008 9:26:06 GMT 1, What about him? Never assume something is true just because you think it is... as i said, i don't much care, but, either you came across his stuff on this forum, and added him to your site.. ..or you knew about him before, pointed him to this place to drum up some interest, then began selling when you felt the waters were warm. Or maybe you are old friends who bumped into each other on here by coincidence. but, whatever, good luck with your enterprise. You certainly seem to have a couple of regular customers on here to keep you going anyway. my ramblings about posts were more due to surprise that you bothered to go back and read my old ones...
Or maybe neither of the above ... anyhow... thank you for the good will message, it's appreciated and maybe some day we'll release something you do like. Hopefully we'll change your mind!
For nacional and others - the 'Tell Me What You're Thinking' edition should be released at around 11am
What about him? Never assume something is true just because you think it is... as i said, i don't much care, but, either you came across his stuff on this forum, and added him to your site.. ..or you knew about him before, pointed him to this place to drum up some interest, then began selling when you felt the waters were warm. Or maybe you are old friends who bumped into each other on here by coincidence. but, whatever, good luck with your enterprise. You certainly seem to have a couple of regular customers on here to keep you going anyway. my ramblings about posts were more due to surprise that you bothered to go back and read my old ones... Or maybe neither of the above ... anyhow... thank you for the good will message, it's appreciated and maybe some day we'll release something you do like. Hopefully we'll change your mind! For nacional and others - the 'Tell Me What You're Thinking' edition should be released at around 11am
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by paulypaul on Sept 23, 2008 10:05:36 GMT 1, so you have been in his 'studio', what does he do in there? channel the spirits of BAST and supine?
Laughed at that and I think 'Iwould etc etc' has a valid point in that his critique is that the work is TOO similar to the artists mentioned (I'd also throw in a touch of Insect). I mean - as far as the composition goes, and the colours and the subject this edition is inoffensive (although I think the newstype is a little obvious). If none of the aforementioned artists existed, it might be a little exciting. However, they do..
BTW - does she have three breasts?
so you have been in his 'studio', what does he do in there? channel the spirits of BAST and supine? Laughed at that and I think 'Iwould etc etc' has a valid point in that his critique is that the work is TOO similar to the artists mentioned (I'd also throw in a touch of Insect). I mean - as far as the composition goes, and the colours and the subject this edition is inoffensive (although I think the newstype is a little obvious). If none of the aforementioned artists existed, it might be a little exciting. However, they do.. BTW - does she have three breasts?
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Dellboyy
Artist
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,729
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October 2006
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by Dellboyy on Sept 23, 2008 11:22:26 GMT 1, I'm not that keen on Cxxx's stuff in general, but i've gotta say i quite like these... definitely improving all the time from what i've seen!
And as for the copying thing... how many stencil artists have done rats, skulls and angels! Doesn't make it plagiarism for me!
I'm not that keen on Cxxx's stuff in general, but i've gotta say i quite like these... definitely improving all the time from what i've seen!
And as for the copying thing... how many stencil artists have done rats, skulls and angels! Doesn't make it plagiarism for me!
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jon11
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 392
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June 2007
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by jon11 on Sept 23, 2008 11:44:42 GMT 1, i would say old C*** chops def has his own distinctive style - may be similar to others or overlap but his shit is distinctive no doubt - who's a baggin one of these - cheap as fuck for the amount of work - bottom really dropping out of print market with shneizer of this quality at this price
i would say old C*** chops def has his own distinctive style - may be similar to others or overlap but his shit is distinctive no doubt - who's a baggin one of these - cheap as fuck for the amount of work - bottom really dropping out of print market with shneizer of this quality at this price
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nacional
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,734
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August 2007
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by nacional on Sept 23, 2008 13:08:14 GMT 1, I have just spent 30 minutes staring at jon11's avatar: is this illegal??
I have just spent 30 minutes staring at jon11's avatar: is this illegal? ?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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iAmCxxx ๐ฌ๐ง Street Artist โข Collage Art, by Deleted on Sept 23, 2008 13:20:53 GMT 1, I have just spent 30 minutes staring at jon11's avatar: is this illegal? ?
Hope not
I have just spent 30 minutes staring at jon11's avatar: is this illegal? ? Hope not
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