raiden
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Posts โข 512
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April 2008
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by raiden on Oct 16, 2008 7:11:30 GMT 1, We'll see how this month plays out... but after looking over prices and then looking over the auction calendar, this is starting to look bad... but I'll just concentrate on Banksy for sake of simplification...
First was Lyon & Turnbull's debacle of an auction on the 27th, where a bunch of Banksy's failed to sell - namely 21 wen unsold. I'm looking back over this auction and we're talking bad! 5 of 26 sold... and all for the bottom level of their estimates. Granted, 4 were street pieces that were poorly authenticated, and it was Lyon and Turnbull... but this sale was a bloodbath...
But then Dreweatts was a disappointment... The Banksy wooden statue thing sold for ยฃ4,800 when it was estimated at ยฃ8,000 -12,000. Monkey Detonator hit the low end of estimate at ยฃ40,000... Way low given comparables at auctions at the end of the month - and that this was an early piece from 2000! Plus 4-5 Banky's went unsold... This was another mess of an auction. At a terrible time given the weakness of the market.
But now the rest of the month leading up to Bonhams looks terrible!!
On the 17th Sothebys has a complete set Banksy Kate Moss up for 250,000 โ 350,000 GBP... and a 250GBP-350GBP Oil on Canvas Queen Vic. If these sell at those price points, I'll be shocked - for one, the record for a Banksy piece (non Hirst collab) is still 'Space Girl and Bird' at ยฃ288,000. These pieces have everything going against them...
Then, Sotheby's has 3 more original Banksy's up at more reasonable prices on the 20th... but also hard sells... First up that day is a "Laugh Now Monkey" at 60,000โ80,000 GBP... Only because its the monkey and its sprayed on cast plaster that looks like bricks, do I think it might possibly sell - but is still a toss up with signature on the reverse and the previous price on 'Monkey Detonator.' The lot of 2 "Happy Coppers" will more than likely reach their 20,000GBP estimate - but they are unsigned (albeit original) cumbersome cut outs on cardboard.
Then Christies "Post-War & Contemporary Art Day Sale" on the 21th (5 Banksys) looks like it can go either way. Estimates are a bit high (cheapest being a 12 by 12 Heavy Weaponry stencil for 20,000 GBP) if Sotheby's goes south, this could get ugly.
Finally, comes Bonhams "Urban Art Sale" on the 23rd (9 Banksys - which at least has some grasp of reality with their estimates - but we'll see how the market holds up by this point) by this point, 40 or so Banksys will have come under the auctioneer gavel - with the majority already not having sold (approximately 25 of 35 or so), and realistically by Bonhams... 75% of all Banksys that came up for auction will have not sold! (what a difference a year makes)
Lastly, I should mention the abortion of Phillips Art auction on the 25th (4 approx Banksy unsigned prints - honestly this sale is a disservice) plus weak prices on Ebay - where I'm seeing prominent art dealers / galleries who will remain nameless unloading Banksy pieces - at prices that I'm shocked by given what they were asking 4 months ago - and sooo many not selling for asking price.
All told... this looks like a really bad picture for Banksy prices - a ton of pieces being auctioned in a very bad economic climate at ridiculous prices, all lined up to sequentially sell in succession from least likely to reach reserve (250GBP Queen Vic on the 17th) to most likely to sell (Bonham's Urban Art Sale).
Combine this dump of art (approximately 50 or so Banksy pieces up for auction in the span of one month) with the economy tanking, and I think confidence in Banksy as an investment could bottom out... Which I must applaud as it will likely mean actual fans can buy Banksy again thus clearing out the speculative buyers.
We'll see how this month plays out... but after looking over prices and then looking over the auction calendar, this is starting to look bad... but I'll just concentrate on Banksy for sake of simplification...
First was Lyon & Turnbull's debacle of an auction on the 27th, where a bunch of Banksy's failed to sell - namely 21 wen unsold. I'm looking back over this auction and we're talking bad! 5 of 26 sold... and all for the bottom level of their estimates. Granted, 4 were street pieces that were poorly authenticated, and it was Lyon and Turnbull... but this sale was a bloodbath...
But then Dreweatts was a disappointment... The Banksy wooden statue thing sold for ยฃ4,800 when it was estimated at ยฃ8,000 -12,000. Monkey Detonator hit the low end of estimate at ยฃ40,000... Way low given comparables at auctions at the end of the month - and that this was an early piece from 2000! Plus 4-5 Banky's went unsold... This was another mess of an auction. At a terrible time given the weakness of the market.
But now the rest of the month leading up to Bonhams looks terrible!!
On the 17th Sothebys has a complete set Banksy Kate Moss up for 250,000 โ 350,000 GBP... and a 250GBP-350GBP Oil on Canvas Queen Vic. If these sell at those price points, I'll be shocked - for one, the record for a Banksy piece (non Hirst collab) is still 'Space Girl and Bird' at ยฃ288,000. These pieces have everything going against them...
Then, Sotheby's has 3 more original Banksy's up at more reasonable prices on the 20th... but also hard sells... First up that day is a "Laugh Now Monkey" at 60,000โ80,000 GBP... Only because its the monkey and its sprayed on cast plaster that looks like bricks, do I think it might possibly sell - but is still a toss up with signature on the reverse and the previous price on 'Monkey Detonator.' The lot of 2 "Happy Coppers" will more than likely reach their 20,000GBP estimate - but they are unsigned (albeit original) cumbersome cut outs on cardboard.
Then Christies "Post-War & Contemporary Art Day Sale" on the 21th (5 Banksys) looks like it can go either way. Estimates are a bit high (cheapest being a 12 by 12 Heavy Weaponry stencil for 20,000 GBP) if Sotheby's goes south, this could get ugly.
Finally, comes Bonhams "Urban Art Sale" on the 23rd (9 Banksys - which at least has some grasp of reality with their estimates - but we'll see how the market holds up by this point) by this point, 40 or so Banksys will have come under the auctioneer gavel - with the majority already not having sold (approximately 25 of 35 or so), and realistically by Bonhams... 75% of all Banksys that came up for auction will have not sold! (what a difference a year makes)
Lastly, I should mention the abortion of Phillips Art auction on the 25th (4 approx Banksy unsigned prints - honestly this sale is a disservice) plus weak prices on Ebay - where I'm seeing prominent art dealers / galleries who will remain nameless unloading Banksy pieces - at prices that I'm shocked by given what they were asking 4 months ago - and sooo many not selling for asking price.
All told... this looks like a really bad picture for Banksy prices - a ton of pieces being auctioned in a very bad economic climate at ridiculous prices, all lined up to sequentially sell in succession from least likely to reach reserve (250GBP Queen Vic on the 17th) to most likely to sell (Bonham's Urban Art Sale).
Combine this dump of art (approximately 50 or so Banksy pieces up for auction in the span of one month) with the economy tanking, and I think confidence in Banksy as an investment could bottom out... Which I must applaud as it will likely mean actual fans can buy Banksy again thus clearing out the speculative buyers.
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by snakes on Oct 16, 2008 7:44:10 GMT 1, Hopefully Banksy was last years fad and pieces will hit rock bottom - then maybe I can scoop up a couple more!
Hopefully Banksy was last years fad and pieces will hit rock bottom - then maybe I can scoop up a couple more!
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by weaver on Oct 16, 2008 8:20:29 GMT 1, Just to play devils advocate and build of Mojo's comment, surely as collectors rather than investors, lowering prices at auctions might help nice pieces make their way into the hand sof those who might previously have been unable to afford them, alot of items have gone unsold due to the unrealistic reserves, why would anyone buy a print with a 10K reserve when its readily available from a reputable gallery for 7k? Too much expectation on auction house fever and too little basis in reality.Low auction prices are not too good for those selling at the moment, but certainly open the door to the collector, and with prices as they are, coupled with the current economic situation, there might be no time better to take advantage of the prices at auction. The L&T auction was F'ed from the start from several angles ( colony club and vermin situation..) Phillips dont tend to sell many Banksy pieces (ever) but bonhams and Sotheby's should be interesting to watch due to the higher quality of pieces available.
Just to play devils advocate and build of Mojo's comment, surely as collectors rather than investors, lowering prices at auctions might help nice pieces make their way into the hand sof those who might previously have been unable to afford them, alot of items have gone unsold due to the unrealistic reserves, why would anyone buy a print with a 10K reserve when its readily available from a reputable gallery for 7k? Too much expectation on auction house fever and too little basis in reality.Low auction prices are not too good for those selling at the moment, but certainly open the door to the collector, and with prices as they are, coupled with the current economic situation, there might be no time better to take advantage of the prices at auction. The L&T auction was F'ed from the start from several angles ( colony club and vermin situation..) Phillips dont tend to sell many Banksy pieces (ever) but bonhams and Sotheby's should be interesting to watch due to the higher quality of pieces available.
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dmandpenfold
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,466
Likes โข 10
December 2006
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by dmandpenfold on Oct 16, 2008 8:29:30 GMT 1, well put weaver, time is ripe for the collector and the little man, yes prices are down which is good news for many of us but it's still not exactly a disaster unless you are trying to sell something you paid a high price for. It's like home owners bleating about how they lost a heap of money, again not true unless they happen to be trying to sell.
On the bright side one seller at Dreweatts did well with his or her sepia morons going for GBP6,500, not a bad result i would say although i concede 1 swallow and all that..
well put weaver, time is ripe for the collector and the little man, yes prices are down which is good news for many of us but it's still not exactly a disaster unless you are trying to sell something you paid a high price for. It's like home owners bleating about how they lost a heap of money, again not true unless they happen to be trying to sell.
On the bright side one seller at Dreweatts did well with his or her sepia morons going for GBP6,500, not a bad result i would say although i concede 1 swallow and all that..
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raiden
New Member
Posts โข 512
Likes โข 3
April 2008
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by raiden on Oct 16, 2008 8:39:16 GMT 1, I'm actually pretty happy to see a large correction in prices. I still expect prices to drop 50% from where they were a year ago.
Just pointing out that this auction month is looking brutal for a lot of artists - Walker is in free fall. Insect is weak.
Still, it seems like there is a perfect storm of scenarios this month which should really depress the Banksy market, possibly more than is really valid.
But all in all a good thing because its seeming to get rid of the craziness of mass speculation - where it seemed people were buying on name alone and not on content.
I'm actually pretty happy to see a large correction in prices. I still expect prices to drop 50% from where they were a year ago.
Just pointing out that this auction month is looking brutal for a lot of artists - Walker is in free fall. Insect is weak.
Still, it seems like there is a perfect storm of scenarios this month which should really depress the Banksy market, possibly more than is really valid.
But all in all a good thing because its seeming to get rid of the craziness of mass speculation - where it seemed people were buying on name alone and not on content.
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artpartment
New Member
Posts โข 623
Likes โข 75
September 2007
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by artpartment on Oct 16, 2008 11:01:59 GMT 1, could it be that also the prices goes down because of pestconrol?i in not authentification of street art pieces wich are surely the most desirable,and also made the prices rising so high.i think that it is very important to be aware about fakes but i also think that works wich are 100%genuine should get an authentification from pestcontrol even when they are from the street.this would let the prices climb higher again and the tresure hunt would starting again on the street. or is it all bullshit and its all because of the financial situation
could it be that also the prices goes down because of pestconrol?i in not authentification of street art pieces wich are surely the most desirable,and also made the prices rising so high.i think that it is very important to be aware about fakes but i also think that works wich are 100%genuine should get an authentification from pestcontrol even when they are from the street.this would let the prices climb higher again and the tresure hunt would starting again on the street. or is it all bullshit and its all because of the financial situation
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sfdoddsy
New Member
Posts โข 267
Likes โข 0
August 2008
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by sfdoddsy on Oct 16, 2008 11:14:21 GMT 1, I think the title is a bit misleading.
It's been a very good month for Banksy, what with the opening of his new show in New York. A show which quite notably (and I'm sure deliberately) has no work for sale. This follows on from glowing reports on his New Orleans efforts.
It hasn't been quite so rosy for Banksy owners who are treating his work as a sure-fire investment, and that will probably get even less rosy in coming months.
I doubt that the travails of secondary market speculators concerns Mr Banksy all that much, and indeed he's probably quite chuffed by it.
Even so, given the prices these same works sold for a year or two ago one can hardly say that time has been unkind financially. Unless of course you bought on the secondary market in the last six months or so.
So (IMHO) Banksy = happy. Future Banksy buyers = happy. Longer term Banksy owners = happy. Recent Banksy buyers = not so happy.
3/4 ain't bad.
I think the title is a bit misleading.
It's been a very good month for Banksy, what with the opening of his new show in New York. A show which quite notably (and I'm sure deliberately) has no work for sale. This follows on from glowing reports on his New Orleans efforts.
It hasn't been quite so rosy for Banksy owners who are treating his work as a sure-fire investment, and that will probably get even less rosy in coming months.
I doubt that the travails of secondary market speculators concerns Mr Banksy all that much, and indeed he's probably quite chuffed by it.
Even so, given the prices these same works sold for a year or two ago one can hardly say that time has been unkind financially. Unless of course you bought on the secondary market in the last six months or so.
So (IMHO) Banksy = happy. Future Banksy buyers = happy. Longer term Banksy owners = happy. Recent Banksy buyers = not so happy.
3/4 ain't bad.
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by worlddomination on Oct 16, 2008 11:45:25 GMT 1, Banksy is here to stay, and his work is traded like a commodity like it or not. Commodity's go up and down. Period. As for the rest well some will fall by the wayside, some will remain static and some may have growth. Big plus whatever the financial element you have something to look at which should give enjoyment rather than some slip of paper in an A4 folder.
Banksy is here to stay, and his work is traded like a commodity like it or not. Commodity's go up and down. Period. As for the rest well some will fall by the wayside, some will remain static and some may have growth. Big plus whatever the financial element you have something to look at which should give enjoyment rather than some slip of paper in an A4 folder.
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by chrisj on Oct 16, 2008 11:49:36 GMT 1, Good, more affordable for everyone. The way it should be.
Good, more affordable for everyone. The way it should be.
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by daz205 on Oct 16, 2008 13:11:50 GMT 1, does it matter? if the prices go down i will buy a few more, if they stay the same i prob wont buy anymore and if they go up i may sell what i have, WHO CARES
does it matter? if the prices go down i will buy a few more, if they stay the same i prob wont buy anymore and if they go up i may sell what i have, WHO CARES
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motor
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,839
Likes โข 411
December 2006
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by motor on Oct 16, 2008 13:44:00 GMT 1, Good post sfdoddsy. Too many speculators in this scene with short term 'goals' which are now s**tting their pants and dumping everything they can in a hurry.
Good post sfdoddsy. Too many speculators in this scene with short term 'goals' which are now s**tting their pants and dumping everything they can in a hurry.
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nattymatt
New Member
Posts โข 59
Likes โข 0
September 2007
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Forecast for a Bad Auction Month For Banksy , by nattymatt on Oct 16, 2008 16:50:06 GMT 1, "BANKSY here to stay".... Yup, you may be right, but the world is a very different place now to what it was last year. A lot of people have investments that have dropped MASSIVELY in value. Nothing is guaranteed........ The last thing to expect is for people to shell out big bucks on what could be an over inflated artist.... IMO anyway .....and when you are spending ยฃ150k plus, ....i don't care what anybody says, it is about the money.
"BANKSY here to stay".... Yup, you may be right, but the world is a very different place now to what it was last year. A lot of people have investments that have dropped MASSIVELY in value. Nothing is guaranteed........ The last thing to expect is for people to shell out big bucks on what could be an over inflated artist.... IMO anyway .....and when you are spending ยฃ150k plus, ....i don't care what anybody says, it is about the money.
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