Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
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February 2008
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51% Flippers, by Heavyconsumer on May 3, 2008 0:07:55 GMT 1, i am not condoning the people who buy art to sell it right away. However its always been the case with people who buy to sell immediately, so either accept it or find a new hobby!
I do not disagree with anything you say mate, except that people should be free to openly discuss what they want here whether it bores you or not. I just feel quite strongly that by posting stuff for sale at a MASSIVE markup on an art appreciation forum, before you've even seen it, is an abuse of the forum and the members who contribute the information that enables people to purchase these pieces to start with. I'm not abusing flippers (or anyone for that matter), but the forum might have a different vibe (maybe nicer or perhaps not), if the profit making were a seperate issue to the art. I've never slated anyone for reselling art on ebay or suggested they're not within their rights to do what the hell they like once they've paid for something. But paying ยฃ450 for a print and coming on here to sell it for ยฃ2k+ the same day seems in poor taste imo, especially when there are no doubt many would be buyers reading this forum that were priced out of their enjoyment of that art. It's just saying fvck you to fellow members, when there's no need, they could keep it to ebay, where we all search for pieces of interest anyway. That's my feeling on the matter. I also feel that there should be more of an issue made of buyers registering themselves as the new owners of prints with the source. It would put some people off selling quite so fast if they thought that buying the next release could be affected by doing so.
Junkieart, no offense but that's not often a valid argument mate. I can't remember the last time there was a popular release and the image wasn't on here in advance, or at least the title and some indication to which previously seen image it was. There seem to be some members on here who are in the know and don't mind sharing, fortunately.
i am not condoning the people who buy art to sell it right away. However its always been the case with people who buy to sell immediately, so either accept it or find a new hobby! I do not disagree with anything you say mate, except that people should be free to openly discuss what they want here whether it bores you or not. I just feel quite strongly that by posting stuff for sale at a MASSIVE markup on an art appreciation forum, before you've even seen it, is an abuse of the forum and the members who contribute the information that enables people to purchase these pieces to start with. I'm not abusing flippers (or anyone for that matter), but the forum might have a different vibe (maybe nicer or perhaps not), if the profit making were a seperate issue to the art. I've never slated anyone for reselling art on ebay or suggested they're not within their rights to do what the hell they like once they've paid for something. But paying ยฃ450 for a print and coming on here to sell it for ยฃ2k+ the same day seems in poor taste imo, especially when there are no doubt many would be buyers reading this forum that were priced out of their enjoyment of that art. It's just saying fvck you to fellow members, when there's no need, they could keep it to ebay, where we all search for pieces of interest anyway. That's my feeling on the matter. I also feel that there should be more of an issue made of buyers registering themselves as the new owners of prints with the source. It would put some people off selling quite so fast if they thought that buying the next release could be affected by doing so. Junkieart, no offense but that's not often a valid argument mate. I can't remember the last time there was a popular release and the image wasn't on here in advance, or at least the title and some indication to which previously seen image it was. There seem to be some members on here who are in the know and don't mind sharing, fortunately. |
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
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February 2008
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51% Flippers, by Heavyconsumer on May 3, 2008 0:09:10 GMT 1, 47.3% of statistics are made up on the spot, and they are usually 84.9% accurate. I think you will find its 73.4% accurate 
I read that goatislander's figures are correct, so it must be true! 
47.3% of statistics are made up on the spot, and they are usually 84.9% accurate. I think you will find its 73.4% accurate I read that goatislander's figures are correct, so it must be true! |
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51% Flippers, by alsbabar on May 3, 2008 0:15:37 GMT 1,
I do not disagree with anything you say mate, except that people should be free to openly discuss what they want here whether it bores you or not. I just feel quite strongly that by posting stuff for sale at a MASSIVE markup on an art appreciation forum, before you've even seen it, is an abuse of the forum and the member
[/quote]
its a bigger insult to the artist and that bothers me more - so until processes are put in place, this is how it is going to be for the time being. I understand that a certain gallery are looking into a process, where all buyers will require to register first and accept their terms of purchase, which includes no reselling for the first 12 months, however should you wish to sell your piece they get first refusal - i can see this working to reduce flipping
I do not disagree with anything you say mate, except that people should be free to openly discuss what they want here whether it bores you or not. I just feel quite strongly that by posting stuff for sale at a MASSIVE markup on an art appreciation forum, before you've even seen it, is an abuse of the forum and the member [/quote] its a bigger insult to the artist and that bothers me more - so until processes are put in place, this is how it is going to be for the time being. I understand that a certain gallery are looking into a process, where all buyers will require to register first and accept their terms of purchase, which includes no reselling for the first 12 months, however should you wish to sell your piece they get first refusal - i can see this working to reduce flipping |
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
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February 2008
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51% Flippers, by Heavyconsumer on May 3, 2008 0:28:45 GMT 1, Didn't Black Market try to take a stand with the COA document a while back for a release? It may have been BRP (memory like a seive). The gallery asked all second hand buyers to register immediately with them and asked all buyers not to resell without contacting them first, or they would be avoided in future - This was printed on the actual COA.
Didn't Black Market try to take a stand with the COA document a while back for a release? It may have been BRP (memory like a seive). The gallery asked all second hand buyers to register immediately with them and asked all buyers not to resell without contacting them first, or they would be avoided in future - This was printed on the actual COA.
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moleman
Junior Member
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March 2008
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51% Flippers, by moleman on May 3, 2008 0:36:44 GMT 1, what a load of garbage last time this thread came up it was 24 months this one is 12 months. you advertise ebay and galleries on this site and yet you all state they are all scum. We all have got info from here or met people who have have helped us.
And yet you all still moan about this, they are in the buisness as are you and i if you want to do it go for it make what you will but if not enjoy what you have and shut up. you have what you have and have lost what you have lost because someone was faster or hungier than you. a quick buck goes a long way and perhaps i am wrong but stop moaning about others and get on with life there will always be people you dont like.get over it
what a load of garbage last time this thread came up it was 24 months this one is 12 months. you advertise ebay and galleries on this site and yet you all state they are all scum. We all have got info from here or met people who have have helped us.
And yet you all still moan about this, they are in the buisness as are you and i if you want to do it go for it make what you will but if not enjoy what you have and shut up. you have what you have and have lost what you have lost because someone was faster or hungier than you. a quick buck goes a long way and perhaps i am wrong but stop moaning about others and get on with life there will always be people you dont like.get over it
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
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February 2008
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51% Flippers, by Heavyconsumer on May 3, 2008 1:05:39 GMT 1, what a load of garbage last time this thread came up it was 24 months this one is 12 months. you advertise ebay and galleries on this site and yet you all state they are all scum. We all have got info from here or met people who have have helped us. And yet you all still moan about this, they are in the buisness as are you and i if you want to do it go for it make what you will but if not enjoy what you have and shut up. you have what you have and have lost what you have lost because someone was faster or hungier than you. a quick buck goes a long way and perhaps i am wrong but stop moaning about others and get on with life there will always be people you dont like.get over it
Moleman, not sure quite why your feathers are ruffled, but telling people to shut up and such like really isn't very conducive to conversation. I don't see anyone on this thread calling anyone else "scum" or even specifically "moaning about missing out." Seems like you're fed up of reading threads like this, so you could simply choose not to read them instead of being so caustic and save the bad energy. Just a friendly suggestion, I'm not looking for an argument with you. There are also some confusing statements in your post. The members of the forum do not advertise ebay or galleries unless they are galleries and I've never read any member slate ebay for what it is. Not catching your drift really, but sensing a lot of anger and don't know who it's directed at or why.
what a load of garbage last time this thread came up it was 24 months this one is 12 months. you advertise ebay and galleries on this site and yet you all state they are all scum. We all have got info from here or met people who have have helped us. And yet you all still moan about this, they are in the buisness as are you and i if you want to do it go for it make what you will but if not enjoy what you have and shut up. you have what you have and have lost what you have lost because someone was faster or hungier than you. a quick buck goes a long way and perhaps i am wrong but stop moaning about others and get on with life there will always be people you dont like.get over it Moleman, not sure quite why your feathers are ruffled, but telling people to shut up and such like really isn't very conducive to conversation. I don't see anyone on this thread calling anyone else "scum" or even specifically "moaning about missing out." Seems like you're fed up of reading threads like this, so you could simply choose not to read them instead of being so caustic and save the bad energy. Just a friendly suggestion, I'm not looking for an argument with you. There are also some confusing statements in your post. The members of the forum do not advertise ebay or galleries unless they are galleries and I've never read any member slate ebay for what it is. Not catching your drift really, but sensing a lot of anger and don't know who it's directed at or why. |
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moleman
Junior Member
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March 2008
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51% Flippers, by moleman on May 3, 2008 1:14:24 GMT 1, perhaps you are right and i should not read this tripe it just gets me that these seemingly sensible, clever people are so blunt and blinkered in there ideas of the art world today. No one slates galleries or galleries but they are flippers look beyond your nose bbut you will buuy from them. good luck to you all no bad vibes just stop using the flipper for a excuse for you not getting what you want
perhaps you are right and i should not read this tripe it just gets me that these seemingly sensible, clever people are so blunt and blinkered in there ideas of the art world today. No one slates galleries or galleries but they are flippers look beyond your nose bbut you will buuy from them. good luck to you all no bad vibes just stop using the flipper for a excuse for you not getting what you want
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
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February 2008
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51% Flippers, by Heavyconsumer on May 3, 2008 1:34:42 GMT 1, Moleman, there's a huge difference between a primary gallery and a flipper. I see your angle, which is that both take the artist's product and sell it on at a premium and I take your point. However the fact is that most artists choose to be represented by a gallery or multiple galleries. In many cases artists are not business people and just want to create, without worrying about how to market their originals, how many prints should be sold, who will buy them and how much will they be prepared to pay, how the art will be sent to the clients, promotion, aftersale service and customer care etc etc etc. The fact is plain and simple that without galleries, artists' work would not be seen or sold and that when the works are sold by galleries the artists get paid. It cannot be argued that flippers are providing a service for anyone other than themselves. All businesses need to make money, so again I think I'm a bit lost in trying to understand your view. I'm not flipper-bashing as so many put it, I'm just saying that there are nicer ways to flip than to ram it down the throats of those who did want the work to admire it and can no longer afford it because of these self-serving people who are wannabe art dealers. If they were giving something to the system like a gallery does, I would not have this view. It's take take take with rrespect for money and nothing else, so you decide however you want to think or feel about that. Personally my opinion is that they are a sad but very real part of today's reality. I think galleries should do whatever they can to limit the practice, whether that means recording more client info at point of sale, raising prices, requesting changes of ownership are registered or whatever other ideas they can come up with. I think that the people buying the art at inflated prices should take it upon themselves to try and cut the seller out of the next release. It's not vindictive in any way, it's just economic common sense.
Moleman, there's a huge difference between a primary gallery and a flipper. I see your angle, which is that both take the artist's product and sell it on at a premium and I take your point. However the fact is that most artists choose to be represented by a gallery or multiple galleries. In many cases artists are not business people and just want to create, without worrying about how to market their originals, how many prints should be sold, who will buy them and how much will they be prepared to pay, how the art will be sent to the clients, promotion, aftersale service and customer care etc etc etc. The fact is plain and simple that without galleries, artists' work would not be seen or sold and that when the works are sold by galleries the artists get paid. It cannot be argued that flippers are providing a service for anyone other than themselves. All businesses need to make money, so again I think I'm a bit lost in trying to understand your view. I'm not flipper-bashing as so many put it, I'm just saying that there are nicer ways to flip than to ram it down the throats of those who did want the work to admire it and can no longer afford it because of these self-serving people who are wannabe art dealers. If they were giving something to the system like a gallery does, I would not have this view. It's take take take with rrespect for money and nothing else, so you decide however you want to think or feel about that. Personally my opinion is that they are a sad but very real part of today's reality. I think galleries should do whatever they can to limit the practice, whether that means recording more client info at point of sale, raising prices, requesting changes of ownership are registered or whatever other ideas they can come up with. I think that the people buying the art at inflated prices should take it upon themselves to try and cut the seller out of the next release. It's not vindictive in any way, it's just economic common sense.
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51% Flippers, by Guest on May 3, 2008 1:36:44 GMT 1, boring
boring
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
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February 2008
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51% Flippers, by Heavyconsumer on May 3, 2008 1:39:16 GMT 1, I can't figure out why people waste their time reading and commenting on threads they find uninteresting. Surely watching the snooker highlites or shagging the missus would be more fun then!
I can't figure out why people waste their time reading and commenting on threads they find uninteresting. Surely watching the snooker highlites or shagging the missus would be more fun then!
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51% Flippers, by alsbabar on May 3, 2008 1:58:05 GMT 1, but this is what happens when a thread starts about flippers, it becomes flipping tiresome and repetitive. It is their art and let them do whatever they want, and let the powers that be, who discover who they are, ban them from future sales, if that is the case!!
but this is what happens when a thread starts about flippers, it becomes flipping tiresome and repetitive. It is their art and let them do whatever they want, and let the powers that be, who discover who they are, ban them from future sales, if that is the case!!
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moleman
Junior Member
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March 2008
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51% Flippers, by moleman on May 3, 2008 2:19:50 GMT 1, people dont get banded that is rthe problem people and galleries are not brave enough as far as i cansee brp had the chance at nw. if you dont want to read our comments on flippers naff off. i spoke to artist at a show who said galleryies were adding up to 1000 pound to the original sale price, so sorry they rip people off to ( not always). but you are right there part of the scene and people dont want to be ripped off but to some degree flippers help keep this market alive and growing (I thjink before you answer)
people dont get banded that is rthe problem people and galleries are not brave enough as far as i cansee brp had the chance at nw. if you dont want to read our comments on flippers naff off. i spoke to artist at a show who said galleryies were adding up to 1000 pound to the original sale price, so sorry they rip people off to ( not always). but you are right there part of the scene and people dont want to be ripped off but to some degree flippers help keep this market alive and growing (I thjink before you answer)
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artstylee
New Member
Posts โข 369
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January 2008
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51% Flippers, by artstylee on May 3, 2008 2:39:31 GMT 1, That Vandal stuff isn't 1/2 as good as the TMA series.
Kind of lame to say that someone who bought a piece of art can't grow tired of an image sell it to buy another piece of art. But I'll admit the people who are online selling them now obviously didn't frame and enjoy those pieces for any extended period of time before they sold them. And that's a b*tch move.
Not a big fan of BRP NW lately because I got a "Buy" button on both Vandal air and V for Vandal pieces "Clicked" but it wouldn't let me procede to check out said "error" within 10 seconds of it appearing. A big waste of time. Another guy said that he was at BRP the day before the release and they only had 41-47 left forgot exactly how many. But I bet All of those 40 + left didn't even make it online. Alot of backdoor dealings in the art game, but it is what it is. You really do have to know somebody to get any decent numbered piece.
That Vandal stuff isn't 1/2 as good as the TMA series.
Kind of lame to say that someone who bought a piece of art can't grow tired of an image sell it to buy another piece of art. But I'll admit the people who are online selling them now obviously didn't frame and enjoy those pieces for any extended period of time before they sold them. And that's a b*tch move.
Not a big fan of BRP NW lately because I got a "Buy" button on both Vandal air and V for Vandal pieces "Clicked" but it wouldn't let me procede to check out said "error" within 10 seconds of it appearing. A big waste of time. Another guy said that he was at BRP the day before the release and they only had 41-47 left forgot exactly how many. But I bet All of those 40 + left didn't even make it online. Alot of backdoor dealings in the art game, but it is what it is. You really do have to know somebody to get any decent numbered piece.
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,974
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February 2008
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51% Flippers, by Heavyconsumer on May 3, 2008 4:46:23 GMT 1, Ronhill, I'll be sure to not invite you to my book launch!  Fair point though, I do have that habit!
Ronhill, I'll be sure to not invite you to my book launch! Fair point though, I do have that habit! |
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51% Flippers, by dh on May 3, 2008 7:14:13 GMT 1, Thats very true about the amount being released, I was also told there were only 40 Vandal Airways released online. It's not what you know in this game, you need to have contacts which is sad really.
Thats very true about the amount being released, I was also told there were only 40 Vandal Airways released online. It's not what you know in this game, you need to have contacts which is sad really.
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G-Man
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,529
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November 2007
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51% Flippers, by G-Man on May 3, 2008 8:40:45 GMT 1, YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN
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51% Flippers, by alsbabar on May 3, 2008 8:43:14 GMT 1, morning all
lets talk more about flippers and flipping today - see if we can extract anymore useless droll
morning all
lets talk more about flippers and flipping today - see if we can extract anymore useless droll
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funyoung
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,040
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February 2008
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51% Flippers, by funyoung on May 3, 2008 10:45:46 GMT 1, Galleries are often different to 'flippers' in that they are traceable should there be a problem and they have their reputation (in terms of fakes etc) to think about. Thus sometimes they add something to the sale of a piece of art other than adding ยฃ1000. Buying from them (to me) seems 'safer' (depends on the gallery of course). A flipper on ebay may just be a con artist. Thus I have an aversion to them other than the fact that they have just increased the cost of something I want.
Difficult to label the flippers and the galleries as 'bad as each other' as a result IMO.
Galleries are often different to 'flippers' in that they are traceable should there be a problem and they have their reputation (in terms of fakes etc) to think about. Thus sometimes they add something to the sale of a piece of art other than adding ยฃ1000. Buying from them (to me) seems 'safer' (depends on the gallery of course). A flipper on ebay may just be a con artist. Thus I have an aversion to them other than the fact that they have just increased the cost of something I want.
Difficult to label the flippers and the galleries as 'bad as each other' as a result IMO.
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dmandpenfold
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,466
Likes โข 10
December 2006
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51% Flippers, by dmandpenfold on May 3, 2008 13:35:06 GMT 1, 47.3% of statistics are made up on the spot, and they are usually 84.9% accurate. I think you will find its 73.4% accurate
of course 99.99% of your are talking utter shite, but then what would i know..
oh and it's not flipping flippers it's fucking flippers
47.3% of statistics are made up on the spot, and they are usually 84.9% accurate. I think you will find its 73.4% accurate of course 99.99% of your are talking utter shite, but then what would i know.. oh and it's not flipping flippers it's fucking flippers |
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51% Flippers, by displaced bear on May 3, 2008 20:04:54 GMT 1, Didn't Black Market try to take a stand with the COA document a while back for a release? It may have been BRP (memory like a seive). The gallery asked all second hand buyers to register immediately with them and asked all buyers not to resell without contacting them first, or they would be avoided in future - This was printed on the actual COA.
carmichael gallery not bmg.
Didn't Black Market try to take a stand with the COA document a while back for a release? It may have been BRP (memory like a seive). The gallery asked all second hand buyers to register immediately with them and asked all buyers not to resell without contacting them first, or they would be avoided in future - This was printed on the actual COA. carmichael gallery not bmg. |
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Karl Read
Artist
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,565
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April 2008
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51% Flippers, by Karl Read on May 4, 2008 11:34:30 GMT 1, People flip, so what! Get over it! It's something we have to put up with! I just except thats what comes with collecting prints!
People flip, so what! Get over it! It's something we have to put up with! I just except thats what comes with collecting prints!
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funyoung
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,040
Likes โข 20
February 2008
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51% Flippers, by funyoung on May 4, 2008 12:05:44 GMT 1, People have conversations about flippers. Get over that!
People have conversations about flippers. Get over that!
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Fair point though, I do have that habit!
