loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
Likes โข 53
October 2007
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Onsales/True Fans, by loucastel on Oct 31, 2007 18:13:12 GMT 1, See what I mean, even get picked up for an apostrophe, lol hyphon, be ok as long as it's not english language quetions, but seriously there are some really helpful people on here, so far so good, you can have my respect thingy for this if you like
See what I mean, even get picked up for an apostrophe, lol hyphon, be ok as long as it's not english language quetions, but seriously there are some really helpful people on here, so far so good, you can have my respect thingy for this if you like
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mike hunt
New Member
Posts โข 456
Likes โข 0
December 2006
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Onsales/True Fans, by mike hunt on Oct 31, 2007 18:16:25 GMT 1, I hate all this real fan stuff. Art & design is my whole life - there's never been anything else I wanted to do. This does not qualify me to enjoy a print more than someone who knows less about its significance. If someone likes a piece but doesn't know anything about the artist or cultural significance, then so what? They have the right to appreciate, and may enjoy it more than 'knowledgeable' people. If someone invested in an artist in the early days and makes a load of money from it, then good for them. Nice post. I agree. I think everyone on here agrees the endless flipper debate is boring. Buy, sell, swap but above all enjoy your art. On a seperate note I really hope that new posters don't feel intimidated on here as there are a great bunch of helpful guys and gals on here. Maybe we could all be a bit more patient with a new forum member when they join?
Yes - please be patient with us. It takes a while to get the gist of any group, and if people are impatient with forum virgins, then others will stay quiet.
I hate all this real fan stuff. Art & design is my whole life - there's never been anything else I wanted to do. This does not qualify me to enjoy a print more than someone who knows less about its significance. If someone likes a piece but doesn't know anything about the artist or cultural significance, then so what? They have the right to appreciate, and may enjoy it more than 'knowledgeable' people. If someone invested in an artist in the early days and makes a load of money from it, then good for them. Nice post. I agree. I think everyone on here agrees the endless flipper debate is boring. Buy, sell, swap but above all enjoy your art. On a seperate note I really hope that new posters don't feel intimidated on here as there are a great bunch of helpful guys and gals on here. Maybe we could all be a bit more patient with a new forum member when they join? Yes - please be patient with us. It takes a while to get the gist of any group, and if people are impatient with forum virgins, then others will stay quiet.
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loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
Likes โข 53
October 2007
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Onsales/True Fans, by loucastel on Oct 31, 2007 18:23:35 GMT 1, I have never been on any type of forum before, even though I have collected art for many years, on the whole I have found the majority of people to be very friendly and helpful, "its been emotional"
I have never been on any type of forum before, even though I have collected art for many years, on the whole I have found the majority of people to be very friendly and helpful, "its been emotional"
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Onsales/True Fans, by finsburyparkranger on Oct 31, 2007 18:36:55 GMT 1,
;D ;D ;D
![](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/narrance/animted%20gifs/hesalanpartridge.gif)
;D ;D ;D ![](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/narrance/animted%20gifs/hesalanpartridge.gif)
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aj
New Member
Posts โข 351
Likes โข 4
August 2007
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Onsales/True Fans, by aj on Oct 31, 2007 18:40:31 GMT 1, I'm a new member and only started posting in the last 6 weeks, most of what i say is a vain attempt at humor, and i try and be as helpful as i can to others. i think as long as your open minded, respect others opinions and are never hurtful or malicious you can't go wrong on any forum.
But most importantly you have to have a avator! get one of these baby's and watch the +1's roll in. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
I'm a new member and only started posting in the last 6 weeks, most of what i say is a vain attempt at humor, and i try and be as helpful as i can to others. i think as long as your open minded, respect others opinions and are never hurtful or malicious you can't go wrong on any forum. But most importantly you have to have a avator! get one of these baby's and watch the +1's roll in. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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thwaites
New Member
Posts โข 618
Likes โข 0
October 2006
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Onsales/True Fans, by thwaites on Oct 31, 2007 18:43:21 GMT 1, ;D ;D ;D ![](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/narrance/animted%20gifs/hesalanpartridge.gif)
This is my favourite man in the wide world
;D ;D ;D ![](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n89/narrance/animted%20gifs/hesalanpartridge.gif) This is my favourite man in the wide world
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loucastel
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,551
Likes โข 53
October 2007
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Onsales/True Fans, by loucastel on Oct 31, 2007 19:04:31 GMT 1, And how do you get one of thoses avatar things?
And how do you get one of thoses avatar things?
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Onsales/True Fans, by corblimeylimey on Oct 31, 2007 20:44:45 GMT 1, I saw alot of people who were upset about not getting a print complaining about flippers or people whose first post related to getting the Trolleys print. The general consensus seemed to be that the POW release was not fair to all the โreal fans who had been F5ing for months โฆ.โ So, what is a true fan? I mean if someone got a print who had posted 100 times is that ok whereas a person who has posted 50 times is less deserving? Should a person who is going to frame it right away be given priority over someone who is just going to put it in storage? I guess I just saw all the complaints about โreal fansโ getting snubbed but I want to know who qualifies as โdeservingโ. a print
Posting on this forum certainly has nothing to do with it, I bought my first Banksy before I knew the forum existed, (it would of helped if I was aware though).
Anyone who likes his street work, prints, postcards, exhibitions, stunts, books etc is a fan.
I just think the main grief people have is with people who aren't fans at all, they just want to buy low and sell high, no other interest.
There's a few thousand more members here than there were a year ago, I guess most are real fans, but they haven't made getting a print from POW any easier, obviously quite the opposite, but they've all got an equal 'right' to have one.
I saw alot of people who were upset about not getting a print complaining about flippers or people whose first post related to getting the Trolleys print. The general consensus seemed to be that the POW release was not fair to all the โreal fans who had been F5ing for months โฆ.โ So, what is a true fan? I mean if someone got a print who had posted 100 times is that ok whereas a person who has posted 50 times is less deserving? Should a person who is going to frame it right away be given priority over someone who is just going to put it in storage? I guess I just saw all the complaints about โreal fansโ getting snubbed but I want to know who qualifies as โdeservingโ. a print Posting on this forum certainly has nothing to do with it, I bought my first Banksy before I knew the forum existed, (it would of helped if I was aware though). Anyone who likes his street work, prints, postcards, exhibitions, stunts, books etc is a fan. I just think the main grief people have is with people who aren't fans at all, they just want to buy low and sell high, no other interest. There's a few thousand more members here than there were a year ago, I guess most are real fans, but they haven't made getting a print from POW any easier, obviously quite the opposite, but they've all got an equal 'right' to have one.
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Strange Al
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,289
Likes โข 59
October 2006
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Onsales/True Fans, by Strange Al on Oct 31, 2007 21:29:41 GMT 1, Here's my two twenty pence worth on the subject, which I'm sure I've posted before.
On the flipper issue, for me it's all about the intention at the time of purchase. If at the time of purchase your sole intention of buying is to resell at a later date for profit, then you're a "flipper"/"bagger"/"art dealer" (delete as appropriate). I don't think it makes a difference whether you hold on to the piece for a day, a week, a year or 10 years. If you're intention was only ever to sell, you're effectively treating the work as a commodity and not as a piece of art. If however you bought the piece because it spoke to you on some aesthetic/emotional level and the image itself (as opposed to the kudos or financial rewards attached to the image) brings you enjoyment, the fact that you may take into consideration its residual value or even come to sell the piece at a later date for profit doesn't make you a "flipper".
We all know what our true intentions are when buying works. And I'll readily admit that I've bought certain prints with one eye on investment and have sold a number of things for profit (and will no doubt do so again). Christ it's the only way I can justify my expenditure on this addiction. But I can honestly say that I've never bought a work which didn't resonate with me on an emotional level at the time of purchase. I may have fallen out of love with certain pieces or wanted another piece more, but that's another issue.
In respect of what is a "true fan"? For me that's very simple - a "true fan" is someone who truly appreciates and enjoys the art. As mentioned above, by this I mean someone that appreciates and enjoys the art itself and not the kudos or financial reward that the art brings. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether you discovered Banksy 10 years ago or 10 minutes ago. If you love the art, you're a "true fan" in my eyes and just as entitled as anyone else to a print!
As to what is the best way to release a print - we all have our opinions on this. Though ultimately for me there is no ideal solution. We're talking about the sale of limited edition works, in a market where demand currently far exceeds supply. That being the case, there will always be a proportion of people who miss out and are unhappy about this fact. You have to question whether this limited edition market is a positive thing? Surely it goes against the very ethos of the street art movement. Though I appreciate that if you're an artist looking to build a career, there are very cogent reasons for releasing your works in this way.
I actually like the strategy that Cauty adopted and which is also being used for the forthcoming Audrey Kawasaki print release. The time and date of the release is widely publicised in advance. The print is released as a quasi-open edition, with everyone that orders a print within a specific period getting a copy. Thereafter the edition is closed. If you're going to have a limited edition then you can't say fairer than that.
I'm actually very philosophical about it all - if I miss out on a particular print, there are thousands of other equally amazing artworks out there to buy and enjoy. Save to mention the wealth of art which can be enjoyed for free in galleries and on the streets across the world. What real impact does missing out on the latest print release have on my happiness? None - unless I choose to buy into the negativity.
Finally, it's incredible the level of passion and anger that the releases of prints, flippers, etc generate. While I completely understand these feelings, I truly believe that if people were to direct this same energy to things which actually matter we'd all be better off. Sorry if that sounds a little preachy.
Here's my two twenty pence worth on the subject, which I'm sure I've posted before.
On the flipper issue, for me it's all about the intention at the time of purchase. If at the time of purchase your sole intention of buying is to resell at a later date for profit, then you're a "flipper"/"bagger"/"art dealer" (delete as appropriate). I don't think it makes a difference whether you hold on to the piece for a day, a week, a year or 10 years. If you're intention was only ever to sell, you're effectively treating the work as a commodity and not as a piece of art. If however you bought the piece because it spoke to you on some aesthetic/emotional level and the image itself (as opposed to the kudos or financial rewards attached to the image) brings you enjoyment, the fact that you may take into consideration its residual value or even come to sell the piece at a later date for profit doesn't make you a "flipper".
We all know what our true intentions are when buying works. And I'll readily admit that I've bought certain prints with one eye on investment and have sold a number of things for profit (and will no doubt do so again). Christ it's the only way I can justify my expenditure on this addiction. But I can honestly say that I've never bought a work which didn't resonate with me on an emotional level at the time of purchase. I may have fallen out of love with certain pieces or wanted another piece more, but that's another issue.
In respect of what is a "true fan"? For me that's very simple - a "true fan" is someone who truly appreciates and enjoys the art. As mentioned above, by this I mean someone that appreciates and enjoys the art itself and not the kudos or financial reward that the art brings. It doesn't make a blind bit of difference whether you discovered Banksy 10 years ago or 10 minutes ago. If you love the art, you're a "true fan" in my eyes and just as entitled as anyone else to a print!
As to what is the best way to release a print - we all have our opinions on this. Though ultimately for me there is no ideal solution. We're talking about the sale of limited edition works, in a market where demand currently far exceeds supply. That being the case, there will always be a proportion of people who miss out and are unhappy about this fact. You have to question whether this limited edition market is a positive thing? Surely it goes against the very ethos of the street art movement. Though I appreciate that if you're an artist looking to build a career, there are very cogent reasons for releasing your works in this way.
I actually like the strategy that Cauty adopted and which is also being used for the forthcoming Audrey Kawasaki print release. The time and date of the release is widely publicised in advance. The print is released as a quasi-open edition, with everyone that orders a print within a specific period getting a copy. Thereafter the edition is closed. If you're going to have a limited edition then you can't say fairer than that.
I'm actually very philosophical about it all - if I miss out on a particular print, there are thousands of other equally amazing artworks out there to buy and enjoy. Save to mention the wealth of art which can be enjoyed for free in galleries and on the streets across the world. What real impact does missing out on the latest print release have on my happiness? None - unless I choose to buy into the negativity.
Finally, it's incredible the level of passion and anger that the releases of prints, flippers, etc generate. While I completely understand these feelings, I truly believe that if people were to direct this same energy to things which actually matter we'd all be better off. Sorry if that sounds a little preachy.
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pezlow
Junior Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_silver.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_silver.png)
Posts โข 5,388
Likes โข 254
January 2007
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Onsales/True Fans, by pezlow on Oct 31, 2007 21:45:08 GMT 1, Spot on JJ. The voice of reason again.
Papa Pez ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
Spot on JJ. The voice of reason again. Papa Pez ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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bombshelter
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,107
Likes โข 1
September 2006
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Onsales/True Fans, by bombshelter on Oct 31, 2007 21:47:20 GMT 1, Top One jj have one from me ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
Top One jj ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) have one from me ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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ร
gentรacardi
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,037
Likes โข 16
September 2006
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Onsales/True Fans, by ร
gentรacardi on Oct 31, 2007 21:56:13 GMT 1, Bottom line: There will always be more true fans than available prints. Add the flippers on top of it, and you can imagine that it is absolutely impossible to make everything fair.
It's all about luck and being at the right place at the right time.
You can be a true fan even if you've known about Banksy for 2 days and fell totally in love with his work. Just because somebody has been a Banksy fan for 10 years doesn't necessarily make that fan a bigger and truer one than a newbie, IMO. So let's just try to be happy that our favorite graf artist is getting the recognition he truly deserves (Finally) and stop trying to discriminate between ourselves, shall we?
Peace! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
Bottom line: There will always be more true fans than available prints. Add the flippers on top of it, and you can imagine that it is absolutely impossible to make everything fair. It's all about luck and being at the right place at the right time. You can be a true fan even if you've known about Banksy for 2 days and fell totally in love with his work. Just because somebody has been a Banksy fan for 10 years doesn't necessarily make that fan a bigger and truer one than a newbie, IMO. So let's just try to be happy that our favorite graf artist is getting the recognition he truly deserves (Finally) and stop trying to discriminate between ourselves, shall we? Peace! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Onsales/True Fans, by corblimeylimey on Oct 31, 2007 22:29:42 GMT 1, Well said JJ & AB.
I must admit I was really pissed off not being able to get a Trolley print, but very very happy when a member of this board (dmandpenfold) contacted me to say he got an unsigned in his basket for me, if that hadn't of happened I'd of got over it of course and I wouldn't have bought one of ebay as I can't afford to, I'd just have to put it behind me and move on.
Well said JJ & AB.
I must admit I was really pissed off not being able to get a Trolley print, but very very happy when a member of this board (dmandpenfold) contacted me to say he got an unsigned in his basket for me, if that hadn't of happened I'd of got over it of course and I wouldn't have bought one of ebay as I can't afford to, I'd just have to put it behind me and move on.
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