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IS BANKSY REAL?, by finsburyparkranger on Aug 27, 2007 0:14:20 GMT 1, No I'm just referring to the debate about him using other artists to produce work for him. If banksy commissions a piece of art by another artist and sells it within the banksy brand that makes it his art. If I commissioned a piece of work from banksy and sold it under a 'finsburyparkranger' brand with contractual agreement would that equally mean that it was essentially my art and that i should be given the majority of the artistic merrit for its existence? Depends what you mean by commision I suppose. If you say to banksy "Do me some art" then it that art that you own is a 'banksy'.............If you say to banksy "I want you to make me a stencil of the mona lisa with a beard", then that means that the art is a 'finsburyparkranger'. It's just that banksy was emploed to help with the technical side of things. norman foster is the architect of the gherkin, but it wouldn't have been possible without thousands of other people.
hmmmm interesting all it takes to be any type of artist is the ability to think and communicate those thoughts to other people.
No I'm just referring to the debate about him using other artists to produce work for him. If banksy commissions a piece of art by another artist and sells it within the banksy brand that makes it his art. If I commissioned a piece of work from banksy and sold it under a 'finsburyparkranger' brand with contractual agreement would that equally mean that it was essentially my art and that i should be given the majority of the artistic merrit for its existence? Depends what you mean by commision I suppose. If you say to banksy "Do me some art" then it that art that you own is a 'banksy'.............If you say to banksy "I want you to make me a stencil of the mona lisa with a beard", then that means that the art is a 'finsburyparkranger'. It's just that banksy was emploed to help with the technical side of things. norman foster is the architect of the gherkin, but it wouldn't have been possible without thousands of other people. hmmmm interesting all it takes to be any type of artist is the ability to think and communicate those thoughts to other people. |
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nest
New Member
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August 2007
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by nest on Aug 27, 2007 0:14:39 GMT 1, Good point.. I think whoever spawned the idea they should gain the merrit.. As for the use of other peoples skills that is a fact of life such as if an achitect designed a building it is credited to him and not the man with the skill to acually build it as he was only working from a pre defined plan.. This I think is applicable here also.. an artist has an idea, takes it to people who then can install the practicalities to make it a reallity. It is a cruel fact of life that the people who make the idea into somthing real do not get recognised for their input alas without these people with skills we would still be waiting for the first collection..
For the man who pulls the prints or casts the sculpture or whatever to him it is only his job..
Good point.. I think whoever spawned the idea they should gain the merrit.. As for the use of other peoples skills that is a fact of life such as if an achitect designed a building it is credited to him and not the man with the skill to acually build it as he was only working from a pre defined plan.. This I think is applicable here also.. an artist has an idea, takes it to people who then can install the practicalities to make it a reallity. It is a cruel fact of life that the people who make the idea into somthing real do not get recognised for their input alas without these people with skills we would still be waiting for the first collection..
For the man who pulls the prints or casts the sculpture or whatever to him it is only his job..
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nest
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August 2007
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by nest on Aug 27, 2007 0:28:59 GMT 1, It's all about the peckking order.. I like to think it's similar to hoe the food chain works..bit odd I know but thats how I see it.. or maybe like bees or ants when was the last time the queen locked her own front door??
It's all about the peckking order.. I like to think it's similar to hoe the food chain works..bit odd I know but thats how I see it.. or maybe like bees or ants when was the last time the queen locked her own front door??
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by finsburyparkranger on Aug 27, 2007 0:37:47 GMT 1,
Thats not true you know. David Choe takes commisons still. If i said to him to make a monalisa with a beard... that wouldn't make the art a 'finsburyparkranger'. It would still be a David Choe. In law and in the eye's of the art community generally.
Perhaps the only thing that makes an artist is a contract.
Thats not true you know. David Choe takes commisons still. If i said to him to make a monalisa with a beard... that wouldn't make the art a 'finsburyparkranger'. It would still be a David Choe. In law and in the eye's of the art community generally.
Perhaps the only thing that makes an artist is a contract.
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by becksaboo on Aug 27, 2007 0:41:23 GMT 1, it also depends on whether the artist is respected for the message they are trying to portray or if its because they are particularly skilled at a particular technique e.g painting so they can paint a bunch of flowers which says not a lot but the technique is sublime...if u catch my drift
it also depends on whether the artist is respected for the message they are trying to portray or if its because they are particularly skilled at a particular technique e.g painting so they can paint a bunch of flowers which says not a lot but the technique is sublime...if u catch my drift
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nest
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August 2007
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by nest on Aug 27, 2007 0:44:01 GMT 1, It's all about the peck king order.. I like to think it's similar to hoe the food chain works..bit odd I know but thats how I see it.. or maybe like bees or ants when was the last time the queen locked her own front door?? What are you on about 
What I'm trying to say (unsuccessfully) is that it comes down to social devisions i.e. the government has an idea but it's the people with the skills that implement that idea.. Its a similar thing here where bye the artist has the artistic flair and the individuality to create an idea in whatever medium and then has to call on others to turn that idea into other medium that perhaps the artist himself does not possess the skills to do so for himself.. I think that makes sense??
It's all about the peck king order.. I like to think it's similar to hoe the food chain works..bit odd I know but thats how I see it.. or maybe like bees or ants when was the last time the queen locked her own front door?? What are you on about What I'm trying to say (unsuccessfully) is that it comes down to social devisions i.e. the government has an idea but it's the people with the skills that implement that idea.. Its a similar thing here where bye the artist has the artistic flair and the individuality to create an idea in whatever medium and then has to call on others to turn that idea into other medium that perhaps the artist himself does not possess the skills to do so for himself.. I think that makes sense?? |
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by finsburyparkranger on Aug 27, 2007 0:45:09 GMT 1, Your right. The important bit is the CREATIVE IDEA which is the property of the artist.
No thats what i'm getting at here, the important thing isn't who made the creative idea. Sometimes PR companies, friends or even strangers make the creative ideas. Sadly the important bit is who OWNS the creative idea's and thats not always even the person that made them.
Your right. The important bit is the CREATIVE IDEA which is the property of the artist. No thats what i'm getting at here, the important thing isn't who made the creative idea. Sometimes PR companies, friends or even strangers make the creative ideas. Sadly the important bit is who OWNS the creative idea's and thats not always even the person that made them. |
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by baldwin on Aug 27, 2007 0:51:27 GMT 1, Thats not true you know. David Choe takes commisons still. If i said to him to make a monalisa with a beard... that wouldn't make the art a 'finsburyparkranger'. It would still be a David Choe. In law and in the eye's of the art community generally. Perhaps the only thing that makes an artist is a contract.
In that case, I would say David Choe was offering a painting service. I know somebody like Guy Denning would never paint somebody elses vision. His work very much reflects his own ideas.
If David Choe painted the Mona Lisa with a beard in his own style, then he is acting as a sort of director. He has nothing to do with the concept, so I would compare him to an illustrator or designer. Alot more commercialised and not purley art. It's like his brand of art is for hire.
With regard to law, the client will own the piece, but if somebody wants to use the art in a magazine for example, then who does the copyright belong to? I would guess the person that came up with the concept, but I could be wrong
Thats not true you know. David Choe takes commisons still. If i said to him to make a monalisa with a beard... that wouldn't make the art a 'finsburyparkranger'. It would still be a David Choe. In law and in the eye's of the art community generally. Perhaps the only thing that makes an artist is a contract. In that case, I would say David Choe was offering a painting service. I know somebody like Guy Denning would never paint somebody elses vision. His work very much reflects his own ideas. If David Choe painted the Mona Lisa with a beard in his own style, then he is acting as a sort of director. He has nothing to do with the concept, so I would compare him to an illustrator or designer. Alot more commercialised and not purley art. It's like his brand of art is for hire. With regard to law, the client will own the piece, but if somebody wants to use the art in a magazine for example, then who does the copyright belong to? I would guess the person that came up with the concept, but I could be wrong |
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by finsburyparkranger on Aug 27, 2007 0:58:59 GMT 1,
I think a Contract would be required to sign over the copyright, otherwise the 'artist' would be presumed to own the copyright as opposed to the 'commisioner'.
EDIT: Therfore an artist is defined by law through ownership regardless of who had the creative idea or technical skill. Sheppard Fairy for example, he's got a team creating ideas and a team making the ideas. He ownes the ideas, therefore he is the 'artist'...... even if he goes into a coma (I think) and his prints still keep coming out.
I think a Contract would be required to sign over the copyright, otherwise the 'artist' would be presumed to own the copyright as opposed to the 'commisioner'.
EDIT: Therfore an artist is defined by law through ownership regardless of who had the creative idea or technical skill. Sheppard Fairy for example, he's got a team creating ideas and a team making the ideas. He ownes the ideas, therefore he is the 'artist'...... even if he goes into a coma (I think) and his prints still keep coming out.
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by baldwin on Aug 27, 2007 1:03:51 GMT 1, I HATE this copyright thing it does my head in. I have to deal with these issues most days and I am no expert. I have a LARGE file from the patent office re Interlectual copyright which all this boils down too and I try not to read it only if I must
I'm really interested in stuff like this. Hence why I am up on a Sunday night yapping about it. ;D
I HATE this copyright thing it does my head in. I have to deal with these issues most days and I am no expert. I have a LARGE file from the patent office re Interlectual copyright which all this boils down too and I try not to read it only if I must I'm really interested in stuff like this. Hence why I am up on a Sunday night yapping about it. ;D |
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by finsburyparkranger on Aug 27, 2007 1:08:14 GMT 1, Interesting, I'm sure people may have things to add tomorrow. Ok I'm off to bed. Night all. 
Interesting, I'm sure people may have things to add tomorrow. Ok I'm off to bed. Night all. |
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by baldwin on Aug 27, 2007 1:12:46 GMT 1, I was on the brink of saying something, but cannot think what it was. ;D I think it all gets more complicated when somebody's concept is done in someone elses style. Maybe not 
Anyway, Ta Ta! ;D
I was on the brink of saying something, but cannot think what it was. ;D I think it all gets more complicated when somebody's concept is done in someone elses style. Maybe not Anyway, Ta Ta! ;D |
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by becksaboo on Aug 27, 2007 1:15:28 GMT 1, Night Night sleep tight ;D
mind the bed bugs don't bite! 
Night Night sleep tight ;D mind the bed bugs don't bite! |
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GVD
Artist
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April 2007
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IS BANKSY REAL?, by GVD on Aug 27, 2007 9:31:56 GMT 1, I knew he had help with the stunts and big stencils.
But that he didn't paint those vandalised oil paintings is a bit of a bummer. I've always thought that what makes an artist is both the creative and the technical stuff.
So he might even not made trolley hunters himself? I find it a bit rude to put your own name on there if you commissioned the art...
But hey thats my opinion, I've always been a loner when it comes to making thing haha, I would always rather do it myself.
I knew he had help with the stunts and big stencils.
But that he didn't paint those vandalised oil paintings is a bit of a bummer. I've always thought that what makes an artist is both the creative and the technical stuff.
So he might even not made trolley hunters himself? I find it a bit rude to put your own name on there if you commissioned the art...
But hey thats my opinion, I've always been a loner when it comes to making thing haha, I would always rather do it myself.
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