Deleted
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January 1970
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 8:19:36 GMT 1, there was a very long period where it was nigh on impossible to purchase a Keyes original 'obviously' now it seems there's pieces appearing regularly on the secondary market... what happened?
there was a very long period where it was nigh on impossible to purchase a Keyes original 'obviously' now it seems there's pieces appearing regularly on the secondary market... what happened?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 8:25:13 GMT 1, Think it's just the one seller getting rid of his collection
Think it's just the one seller getting rid of his collection
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saint
Junior Member
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September 2010
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by saint on Mar 12, 2014 8:33:02 GMT 1, That's not true as I'm selling one and don't have any others.
I'm selling mine as I have decided to only have art by people who paint walls on my walls. It's what I get the most enjoyment out of, so it's what I want to see every day.
I still enjoy seeing his work, but will enjoy seeing it elsewhere rather than in my home.
Speaking of which, I have a lovely Keyes original for sale if anyone's interested, or will trade for an original by an artist who paints on walls....
That's not true as I'm selling one and don't have any others.
I'm selling mine as I have decided to only have art by people who paint walls on my walls. It's what I get the most enjoyment out of, so it's what I want to see every day.
I still enjoy seeing his work, but will enjoy seeing it elsewhere rather than in my home.
Speaking of which, I have a lovely Keyes original for sale if anyone's interested, or will trade for an original by an artist who paints on walls....
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Someones Brain on Mar 12, 2014 10:57:01 GMT 1, Speaking of which, I have a lovely Keyes original for sale if anyone's interested, or will trade for an original by an artist who paints on walls....
I would start painting walls for a Keyes orignal. Does it count? 
Speaking of which, I have a lovely Keyes original for sale if anyone's interested, or will trade for an original by an artist who paints on walls.... I would start painting walls for a Keyes orignal. Does it count? |
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Art Fan 2011
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February 2012
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Art Fan 2011 on Mar 12, 2014 12:26:36 GMT 1, Ive done some decorating in my time, does that count towards getting a Keyes original 
The prices on some of his prints seem a bit softer than they used too aswell. His following in the US is much bigger than here obviously, im sure if any of his originals popped up over there they would soon be snapped up!
Slightly off topic, his new print "Dreaming" is now being released tomorrow @ 11pst for anyone who`s interested!
Ive done some decorating in my time, does that count towards getting a Keyes original The prices on some of his prints seem a bit softer than they used too aswell. His following in the US is much bigger than here obviously, im sure if any of his originals popped up over there they would soon be snapped up! Slightly off topic, his new print "Dreaming" is now being released tomorrow @ 11pst for anyone who`s interested! |
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Poster Bob
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September 2013
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Poster Bob on Mar 12, 2014 13:18:44 GMT 1, His last two prints were nothing special.
His last two prints were nothing special.
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Art Fan 2011
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February 2012
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Art Fan 2011 on Mar 12, 2014 13:53:28 GMT 1, I think the Keyes market has peaked and is going the same way the Geddes market went. People are jumping ship. I know i'm not going to be popular saying that. Especially on this forum.
I think the Keyes market has peaked and is going the same way the Geddes market went. People are jumping ship. I know i'm not going to be popular saying that. Especially on this forum. Was going to the same thing, Geddes seems really out of favour at present, although I suspect if he brought out another stunner like "APV" then interest may grow once again !! |
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Someones Brain on Mar 12, 2014 14:05:07 GMT 1, His last two prints were nothing special.
That's my thoughts exactly. To me ... his "new" direction feels more like loosing the plot, direction or track.
His paintings and prints of wild animals against the background of an abandoned civilisation or remainders of the modern world contained some deeper meaning re: post apocalyptic, post human or post whatever developments/evolution.  Now it's just huntsman's kitsch. 
However, I'm still looking for some older prints - so here's hoping his market comes down and I can finally pick up what I like. 
His last two prints were nothing special. That's my thoughts exactly. To me ... his "new" direction feels more like loosing the plot, direction or track. His paintings and prints of wild animals against the background of an abandoned civilisation or remainders of the modern world contained some deeper meaning re: post apocalyptic, post human or post whatever developments/evolution. Now it's just huntsman's kitsch. However, I'm still looking for some older prints - so here's hoping his market comes down and I can finally pick up what I like. |
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bone
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Posts โข 416
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September 2013
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by bone on Mar 12, 2014 15:14:38 GMT 1, I think the Keyes market has peaked and is going the same way the Geddes market went. People are jumping ship. I know i'm not going to be popular saying that. Especially on this forum. Was going to the same thing, Geddes seems really out of favour at present, although I suspect if he brought out another stunner like "APV" then interest may grow once again !!
I think the Keyes market has peaked and is going the same way the Geddes market went. People are jumping ship. I know i'm not going to be popular saying that. Especially on this forum. Was going to the same thing, Geddes seems really out of favour at present, although I suspect if he brought out another stunner like "APV" then interest may grow once again !! I really thought that Acedia was a strong image, but doesn't get much love. With the hype dying, you can pick acedia up for $400. |
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Jeezuz Jones Snr on Mar 12, 2014 21:52:56 GMT 1, I have been a fan like you guys for many years, have 2 prints up and they will always be part of my collection. The old style kept you drawn to his work as it was unique an you new it was a Keyes. You get drawn to the urban surroundings. His new direction (and I wish him all the best) is not for me and I agree that people may have switched off to his work and those who paid inflated prices for originals are perhaps worried and want their money back?
I have been a fan like you guys for many years, have 2 prints up and they will always be part of my collection. The old style kept you drawn to his work as it was unique an you new it was a Keyes. You get drawn to the urban surroundings. His new direction (and I wish him all the best) is not for me and I agree that people may have switched off to his work and those who paid inflated prices for originals are perhaps worried and want their money back?
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connecta1
Junior Member
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September 2010
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by connecta1 on Mar 12, 2014 22:24:39 GMT 1, ..he's suddenly rubbish, maybe he's been rubbish all along!?
SELL, SELL, SELL!!
..he's suddenly rubbish, maybe he's been rubbish all along!?
SELL, SELL, SELL!!
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Chrisp
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,842
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July 2011
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Chrisp on Mar 12, 2014 22:31:35 GMT 1, I think the Keyes market has peaked and is going the same way the Geddes market went. People are jumping ship. I know i'm not going to be popular saying that. Especially on this forum.
Both really great artists cant knock that at all.
I think the Keyes market has peaked and is going the same way the Geddes market went. People are jumping ship. I know i'm not going to be popular saying that. Especially on this forum. Got to agree there. I own a Geddes and it is one of my favourite prints(bought at high price) but he has had his time i think from a secondary market point of sale. Cant see the prices ever reaching what they were when i bought. I personally think Keyes is going down the same route. Of course this is just my personal point of view. Both really great artists cant knock that at all. |
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sierrahotel
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November 2012
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by sierrahotel on Mar 12, 2014 22:54:26 GMT 1, curse of the giclee?
curse of the giclee?
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by maddoghoek100 on Mar 12, 2014 23:19:03 GMT 1, you guys seem to have very short memories and time horizons for art.
So my point, the Basquiat and Andy Warhol collaborations from the mid 80s were regarded by some as a last gasp for an over the hill artist. In their time reviews were very much mixed. Popularity of artists eb and flow, tastes in the market change and many things come in cyclical waves. The availability of raw sales data on a daily basis is overrated. If your horizon is 3, 5, or 10 years you are likely missing the point. Buy what you like, hold it for 30 years. Some will turn out to be crown jewels, others will just turn out to be pieces of art that you loved having on your wall. Will Jeremy Geddes or Josh Keyes be the next Andy Warhol. I have no idea, and we will need 30 years to find out, not 6 months of ebay results
What happened to Josh Keyes, nothing out of the ordinary. Im sure some people who bought originals decided to change things up. Their tastes changed and they now desire something else more.
Some will say, Andy Warhol is a false comparison, he is a once in a generation cultural icon...etc. I say Bunk. Andy Warhol is always my personal benchmark because he was well documented we have the full history available to us from early commercial work, work in his cultural peaks, and work done when he was considered past his prime. And we have a full documentation of recent auction results. So it is recent, and an artist who had a long career (vs say Basquiat or Keith Haring who passed early and with a comparatively limited body of work). He constantly fell in and out of favor as tastes changed and he evolved and is an excellent lens to look at the effect of the market, hype, anti-hype, and the march of time
I think the Keyes market has peaked and is going the same way the Geddes market went. People are jumping ship. I know i'm not going to be popular saying that. Especially on this forum. Got to agree there. I own a Geddes and it is one of my favourite prints(bought at high price) but he has had his time i think from a secondary market point of sale. Cant see the prices ever reaching what they were when i bought. I personally think Keyes is going down the same route. Of course this is just my personal point of view. Both really great artists cant knock that at all.
you guys seem to have very short memories and time horizons for art. So my point, the Basquiat and Andy Warhol collaborations from the mid 80s were regarded by some as a last gasp for an over the hill artist. In their time reviews were very much mixed. Popularity of artists eb and flow, tastes in the market change and many things come in cyclical waves. The availability of raw sales data on a daily basis is overrated. If your horizon is 3, 5, or 10 years you are likely missing the point. Buy what you like, hold it for 30 years. Some will turn out to be crown jewels, others will just turn out to be pieces of art that you loved having on your wall. Will Jeremy Geddes or Josh Keyes be the next Andy Warhol. I have no idea, and we will need 30 years to find out, not 6 months of ebay results What happened to Josh Keyes, nothing out of the ordinary. Im sure some people who bought originals decided to change things up. Their tastes changed and they now desire something else more. Some will say, Andy Warhol is a false comparison, he is a once in a generation cultural icon...etc. I say Bunk. Andy Warhol is always my personal benchmark because he was well documented we have the full history available to us from early commercial work, work in his cultural peaks, and work done when he was considered past his prime. And we have a full documentation of recent auction results. So it is recent, and an artist who had a long career (vs say Basquiat or Keith Haring who passed early and with a comparatively limited body of work). He constantly fell in and out of favor as tastes changed and he evolved and is an excellent lens to look at the effect of the market, hype, anti-hype, and the march of time I think the Keyes market has peaked and is going the same way the Geddes market went. People are jumping ship. I know i'm not going to be popular saying that. Especially on this forum. Got to agree there. I own a Geddes and it is one of my favourite prints(bought at high price) but he has had his time i think from a secondary market point of sale. Cant see the prices ever reaching what they were when i bought. I personally think Keyes is going down the same route. Of course this is just my personal point of view. Both really great artists cant knock that at all. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 23:29:08 GMT 1, Interesting proposition I do think though fundamentally the market that propelled josh to fame is a very different one to the one Andy has been part of... The short cyclical nature of the urban art market is something quite different to longer patterns of more established artists ( that's not say he won't become part of that given time ).
Interesting proposition I do think though fundamentally the market that propelled josh to fame is a very different one to the one Andy has been part of... The short cyclical nature of the urban art market is something quite different to longer patterns of more established artists ( that's not say he won't become part of that given time ).
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monsoonking
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July 2011
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by monsoonking on Mar 12, 2014 23:37:57 GMT 1, I think most work starts to hit a price limit when OG's get to $20-30k. Unless it's picked up and promoted by the international art cartel, the number of artists who continue into 6 figures are few indeed. I don't think Josh's work is either highbrow or ironic enough to break that ceiling. It's pretty and distinctive, but makes a statement that's almost too straightforward. It seems like work with an obvious narrative tends to get shunned (though Banksy is certainly an exception). Maybe current owners are getting the sense that the financial risk is becoming skewed to the downside.
I also agree that the new direction is questionable, though I admire the experiment. Moving a narrative into a fully rendered scene almost makes the works evocative of an old-school Disney film. Probably not the way you want to go unless you want to give it the Paul McCarthy treatment.
I think most work starts to hit a price limit when OG's get to $20-30k. Unless it's picked up and promoted by the international art cartel, the number of artists who continue into 6 figures are few indeed. I don't think Josh's work is either highbrow or ironic enough to break that ceiling. It's pretty and distinctive, but makes a statement that's almost too straightforward. It seems like work with an obvious narrative tends to get shunned (though Banksy is certainly an exception). Maybe current owners are getting the sense that the financial risk is becoming skewed to the downside.
I also agree that the new direction is questionable, though I admire the experiment. Moving a narrative into a fully rendered scene almost makes the works evocative of an old-school Disney film. Probably not the way you want to go unless you want to give it the Paul McCarthy treatment.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 23:55:28 GMT 1, As sad as it reads I'd love to plot the pricing of originals by josh, Micallef, neate, Geddes, Dolk etc etc both primary and secondary, I think we'd really begin to see long term strategies or lack of them, plus the nature of this relatively insular market place.
As sad as it reads I'd love to plot the pricing of originals by josh, Micallef, neate, Geddes, Dolk etc etc both primary and secondary, I think we'd really begin to see long term strategies or lack of them, plus the nature of this relatively insular market place.
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monsoonking
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Posts โข 143
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July 2011
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by monsoonking on Mar 13, 2014 0:01:41 GMT 1, Interesting proposition I do think though fundamentally the market that propelled josh to fame is a very different one to the one Andy has been part of... The short cyclical nature of the urban art market is something quite different to longer patterns of more established artists ( that's not say he won't become part of that given time ).
Additionally, pop art was a epoch making movement in art history and Warhol was in the vanguard (despite the fact that he stole his ideas from Rauschenberg). Even if you believe "urban art" is the next "pop art", Keyes isn't really an exemplar of the movement and is probably mostly lumped in due to crossover in collector base.
All that said, who knows. Crappy Lucien Smith "paintings" are going for 6 figures, so if his work gets picked up by the right channels, anything's possible.
Interesting proposition I do think though fundamentally the market that propelled josh to fame is a very different one to the one Andy has been part of... The short cyclical nature of the urban art market is something quite different to longer patterns of more established artists ( that's not say he won't become part of that given time ). Agreed. Remember that Warhol was a celebrity of his time. He was surrounded by glitterati and collected by the very wealthy. The same can't be said for Keyes. Additionally, pop art was a epoch making movement in art history and Warhol was in the vanguard (despite the fact that he stole his ideas from Rauschenberg). Even if you believe "urban art" is the next "pop art", Keyes isn't really an exemplar of the movement and is probably mostly lumped in due to crossover in collector base. All that said, who knows. Crappy Lucien Smith "paintings" are going for 6 figures, so if his work gets picked up by the right channels, anything's possible. |
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bone
New Member
Posts โข 416
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September 2013
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by bone on Mar 13, 2014 0:14:12 GMT 1, Interesting proposition I do think though fundamentally the market that propelled josh to fame is a very different one to the one Andy has been part of... The short cyclical nature of the urban art market is something quite different to longer patterns of more established artists ( that's not say he won't become part of that given time ). Agreed. Remember that Warhol was a celebrity of his time. He was surrounded by glitterati and collected by the very wealthy. The same can't be said for Keyes. Additionally, pop art was a epoch making movement in art history and Warhol was in the vanguard (despite the fact that he stole his ideas from Rauschenberg). Even if you believe "urban art" is the next "pop art", Keyes isn't really an exemplar of the movement and is probably mostly lumped in due to crossover in collector base. All that said, who knows. Crappy Lucien Smith "paintings" are going for 6 figures, so if his work gets picked up by the right channels, anything's possible.
Lucien Smith paintings are 100k? To each their own, but damn those are weak
Interesting proposition I do think though fundamentally the market that propelled josh to fame is a very different one to the one Andy has been part of... The short cyclical nature of the urban art market is something quite different to longer patterns of more established artists ( that's not say he won't become part of that given time ). Agreed. Remember that Warhol was a celebrity of his time. He was surrounded by glitterati and collected by the very wealthy. The same can't be said for Keyes. Additionally, pop art was a epoch making movement in art history and Warhol was in the vanguard (despite the fact that he stole his ideas from Rauschenberg). Even if you believe "urban art" is the next "pop art", Keyes isn't really an exemplar of the movement and is probably mostly lumped in due to crossover in collector base. All that said, who knows. Crappy Lucien Smith "paintings" are going for 6 figures, so if his work gets picked up by the right channels, anything's possible. Lucien Smith paintings are 100k? To each their own, but damn those are weak |
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Chrisp
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,842
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July 2011
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Chrisp on Mar 13, 2014 0:29:55 GMT 1, When you look at some of that artwork and the effort put in along with the amazing hammer prices, it is very shocking indeed. i love art i really do since i was a very young child but sometimes i think is this just a big piss take?
When you look at some of that artwork and the effort put in along with the amazing hammer prices, it is very shocking indeed. i love art i really do since i was a very young child but sometimes i think is this just a big piss take? |
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cakeboy
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March 2007
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by cakeboy on Mar 13, 2014 0:41:04 GMT 1, I have a nice Keyes for sale if anyone is interested ... Cheap too as I need the cash quickly
PM me
I have a nice Keyes for sale if anyone is interested ... Cheap too as I need the cash quickly
PM me
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monsoonking
New Member
Posts โข 143
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July 2011
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by monsoonking on Mar 13, 2014 0:48:22 GMT 1, When you look at some of that artwork and the effort put in along with the amazing hammer prices, it is very shocking indeed. i love art i really do since i was a very young child but sometimes i think is this just a big piss take?
I think sloppy abstract stuff especially lends itself to hype. No one will accuse buyers of having bad taste because it's oh-so highbrow and ethereal. Scroll through the results of high end auctions and tell me how much of it looks like Keyes' work. Nada. In fact there's next to 0 work with a coherent message, narrative, or explanation. That's fine, but it bodes poorly for the prospects of straight-forward figurative work, at least in the current regime of taste.
I think smart gallerists kind of realize this. Guys like Josh Liner are gravitating away form the pop-surrealist work and towards abstract and conceptual.
When you look at some of that artwork and the effort put in along with the amazing hammer prices, it is very shocking indeed. i love art i really do since i was a very young child but sometimes i think is this just a big piss take? I think it would be very hard for the sober observer not to conclude that contemporary art is in an enormous bubble. I'm confident that this ends in tears for some poor billionaires out there. Not only is most of this work not technically impressive, it's not really conceptually new or interesting either. It's basically just a self-reinforcing herd mentality that coalesces around a small number of artists, rather independent of merit. I think sloppy abstract stuff especially lends itself to hype. No one will accuse buyers of having bad taste because it's oh-so highbrow and ethereal. Scroll through the results of high end auctions and tell me how much of it looks like Keyes' work. Nada. In fact there's next to 0 work with a coherent message, narrative, or explanation. That's fine, but it bodes poorly for the prospects of straight-forward figurative work, at least in the current regime of taste. I think smart gallerists kind of realize this. Guys like Josh Liner are gravitating away form the pop-surrealist work and towards abstract and conceptual. |
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bmerel
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Posts โข 897
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February 2012
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by bmerel on Mar 13, 2014 1:14:43 GMT 1, I am an enormous Keyes fan. My walls are basically covered with his work. For me, some of the new stuff hasn't quite evolved yet. It is very exciting to see where this takes his craft though. I will always be a JK fan...and if anyone has any original drawings or paintings they dont want anymore, i have a very large collection of works that i would be willing to part with. Only pieces NOT on the table are Dal Assassin, Ombrophobia and Golden Dusk...can add a bit of cash as too. Well, maybe i should start a thread, eh?
Link to my collection..
www.Expressobeans/members/collections.php?id=27327
Oh, and i fell in love with one of Josh's new pieces, "Snatch", so i pulled the trigger. Love this little guy.
snatchdetail1 by BmErEl, on Flickr
snatchdetail2 by BmErEl, on Flickr
snatchdetail4 by BmErEl, on Flickr
snatchdetail3 by BmErEl, on Flickr
snatchdetail5 by BmErEl, on Flickr
I am an enormous Keyes fan. My walls are basically covered with his work. For me, some of the new stuff hasn't quite evolved yet. It is very exciting to see where this takes his craft though. I will always be a JK fan...and if anyone has any original drawings or paintings they dont want anymore, i have a very large collection of works that i would be willing to part with. Only pieces NOT on the table are Dal Assassin, Ombrophobia and Golden Dusk...can add a bit of cash as too. Well, maybe i should start a thread, eh? Link to my collection.. www.Expressobeans/members/collections.php?id=27327Oh, and i fell in love with one of Josh's new pieces, "Snatch", so i pulled the trigger. Love this little guy. snatchdetail1 by BmErEl, on Flickr snatchdetail2 by BmErEl, on Flickr snatchdetail4 by BmErEl, on Flickr snatchdetail3 by BmErEl, on Flickr snatchdetail5 by BmErEl, on Flickr |
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monsoonking
New Member
Posts โข 143
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July 2011
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by monsoonking on Mar 13, 2014 1:42:06 GMT 1, I think it would be very hard for the sober observer not to conclude that contemporary art is in an enormous bubble. I'm confident that this ends in tears for some poor billionaires out there. Not only is most of this work not technically impressive, it's not really conceptually new or interesting either. It's basically just a self-reinforcing herd mentality that coalesces around a small number of artists, rather independent of merit. I think sloppy abstract stuff especially lends itself to hype. No one will accuse buyers of having bad taste because it's oh-so highbrow and ethereal. Scroll through the results of high end auctions and tell me how much of it looks like Keyes' work. Nada. In fact there's next to 0 work with a coherent message, narrative, or explanation. That's fine, but it bodes poorly for the prospects of straight-forward figurative work, at least in the current regime of taste. I think smart gallerists kind of realize this. Guys like Josh Liner are gravitating away form the pop-surrealist work and towards abstract and conceptual. I'm not sure I agree with you but it's an interesting way to look at things, for sure (although I do agree with you on the bubble). It's true that when you look at work by Keyes or Geddes, the work is what it is. By nature, realism and ultra-realism are intentionally straight up but there's more to art than skill with a paintbrush. I don't think buyers, or galleries gravitate to more abstract and conceptual artists because of the money. I genuinely think there's more to it. Realism is realism. It's dull. 'Beauty in the imperfections' and all that.
While I tend to prefer abstract myself, I wouldn't say "realism is realism". Geddes work for instance evokes a certain existential loneliness; figures literally unmoored in an urban environment. This is entirely different than the saccharine fantasy of Will Cotton, or the lascivious fleshiness of a John Currin.
I think it would be very hard for the sober observer not to conclude that contemporary art is in an enormous bubble. I'm confident that this ends in tears for some poor billionaires out there. Not only is most of this work not technically impressive, it's not really conceptually new or interesting either. It's basically just a self-reinforcing herd mentality that coalesces around a small number of artists, rather independent of merit. I think sloppy abstract stuff especially lends itself to hype. No one will accuse buyers of having bad taste because it's oh-so highbrow and ethereal. Scroll through the results of high end auctions and tell me how much of it looks like Keyes' work. Nada. In fact there's next to 0 work with a coherent message, narrative, or explanation. That's fine, but it bodes poorly for the prospects of straight-forward figurative work, at least in the current regime of taste. I think smart gallerists kind of realize this. Guys like Josh Liner are gravitating away form the pop-surrealist work and towards abstract and conceptual. I'm not sure I agree with you but it's an interesting way to look at things, for sure (although I do agree with you on the bubble). It's true that when you look at work by Keyes or Geddes, the work is what it is. By nature, realism and ultra-realism are intentionally straight up but there's more to art than skill with a paintbrush. I don't think buyers, or galleries gravitate to more abstract and conceptual artists because of the money. I genuinely think there's more to it. Realism is realism. It's dull. 'Beauty in the imperfections' and all that. I didn't mean to imply that gallerists showing more abstract work are soley driven by a profit motive. It must play in their mind though that this work appeals to a broader audience and perhaps has a little more upside. An artist like Tara McPherson (to pick on someone random) is going to have a much narrower collector base. While I tend to prefer abstract myself, I wouldn't say "realism is realism". Geddes work for instance evokes a certain existential loneliness; figures literally unmoored in an urban environment. This is entirely different than the saccharine fantasy of Will Cotton, or the lascivious fleshiness of a John Currin. |
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by maddoghoek100 on Mar 13, 2014 4:32:31 GMT 1, Well at least this is a legitimate discussion about art. I think the nature of art is that it moves through micro-bubbles for particular movements and macro-bubbles across the whole market. Josh and Jeremy i see as very different figures. Josh is clearly a linchpin in the portland scene which is a linchpin in the environmental movement. I think as a art movement it might resonate for decades to come and his work may be iconic in the long term as a representation of that....or it could be moved to the rubbish heap.
The road is littered with popular movements that have fallen out of vogue. Im partial to the Op Art movement of the 60s. Love picking up work now from the era on the cheap (likely as older collectors are passing on). If you know what you are looking at and for there are bargains to be had even in this era of ready information. I still believe art is to be enjoyed, it is a status symbol, and in all but the rarest cases should not be considered an investment.
Well at least this is a legitimate discussion about art. I think the nature of art is that it moves through micro-bubbles for particular movements and macro-bubbles across the whole market. Josh and Jeremy i see as very different figures. Josh is clearly a linchpin in the portland scene which is a linchpin in the environmental movement. I think as a art movement it might resonate for decades to come and his work may be iconic in the long term as a representation of that....or it could be moved to the rubbish heap.
The road is littered with popular movements that have fallen out of vogue. Im partial to the Op Art movement of the 60s. Love picking up work now from the era on the cheap (likely as older collectors are passing on). If you know what you are looking at and for there are bargains to be had even in this era of ready information. I still believe art is to be enjoyed, it is a status symbol, and in all but the rarest cases should not be considered an investment.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 5:25:18 GMT 1, I'd like to think Josh's popularity is to do with the 'Portland scene' but it seems he's much more a part of the eb/urban art print collecting scene, where some 'matured' residents have moved on to originals.
The other interesting part of this to me, is the psychology of the collectors within these scenes as tastes change and the demand for certain artists dwindle or is questioned. It's interesting because it should be a good indicator for the artists currently emerging and starting to take part in their own micro bubbles.
*Breaking the Fourth Wall Alert!*One observation from my truly limited knowledge would be that, artists no longer have the same sort of rapid rise in secondary prices, that are held up for any period of time, the heat seems to come and go at a much more rapid rate. Which seems to indicate to me, that the pool of people purchasing is more shallow and less financially liquid. Which could to a large extent be caused by the financial trouble playing out across the world and the credit being much more limited than during the original bubble of 06/07...also the work could be viewed as worth purchasing 'generally' by a smaller number of people within the scene ie. it's less popular.
I'd like to think Josh's popularity is to do with the 'Portland scene' but it seems he's much more a part of the eb/urban art print collecting scene, where some 'matured' residents have moved on to originals.
The other interesting part of this to me, is the psychology of the collectors within these scenes as tastes change and the demand for certain artists dwindle or is questioned. It's interesting because it should be a good indicator for the artists currently emerging and starting to take part in their own micro bubbles.
*Breaking the Fourth Wall Alert!*One observation from my truly limited knowledge would be that, artists no longer have the same sort of rapid rise in secondary prices, that are held up for any period of time, the heat seems to come and go at a much more rapid rate. Which seems to indicate to me, that the pool of people purchasing is more shallow and less financially liquid. Which could to a large extent be caused by the financial trouble playing out across the world and the credit being much more limited than during the original bubble of 06/07...also the work could be viewed as worth purchasing 'generally' by a smaller number of people within the scene ie. it's less popular.
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bonesy
Junior Member
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July 2006
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by bonesy on Mar 13, 2014 10:26:07 GMT 1, Most people buying were expressobeans folks with more thought on investment than something they want on their wall forever (regardless of what they will preach). As soon as things start to turn they all jumped ship.
Most people buying were expressobeans folks with more thought on investment than something they want on their wall forever (regardless of what they will preach). As soon as things start to turn they all jumped ship.
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sin
New Member
Posts โข 614
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February 2013
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by sin on Mar 13, 2014 14:49:37 GMT 1, in my opinion, economically, there wasnt a lot of room for Josh to grow. There arent a lot of examples of contemporary work with the same subject matter above 20 - 30K. As wealthy (or insane) as some of us are, 50,000 is an absolute obscene amount to spend, one where you should be making 500K a year to justify. Those collectors are few and knowing 1 or 2 they seem to be focused on different work.
The print market, particularly one with EB involvement is rife for correction. When you have half or more of a release purchased by a microcosm of collectors it artificially justifies pricing an drives up secondary values. However, if that same microcosm pivots, the floor falls out and pricing plummets. The same can easily be said for Geddes.
As far as the quality of work, I think its been nailed a few times in this thread. The work when taken out to full scope in the naturalist setting just doesnt support the urban crossover that supported the other work. It was the graffiti tagged statues, underwater, with wild animals taking over that peaked interest. Take those same animals, put them in the woods, and a lot of the market lost their connection.
If you are looking for your animals in uncommon settings fix, might I suggest some of the new pieces of Gerard Ellis. I think Gerard is poised to produce an amazing body of work and has grown outside the hype.
in my opinion, economically, there wasnt a lot of room for Josh to grow. There arent a lot of examples of contemporary work with the same subject matter above 20 - 30K. As wealthy (or insane) as some of us are, 50,000 is an absolute obscene amount to spend, one where you should be making 500K a year to justify. Those collectors are few and knowing 1 or 2 they seem to be focused on different work.
The print market, particularly one with EB involvement is rife for correction. When you have half or more of a release purchased by a microcosm of collectors it artificially justifies pricing an drives up secondary values. However, if that same microcosm pivots, the floor falls out and pricing plummets. The same can easily be said for Geddes.
As far as the quality of work, I think its been nailed a few times in this thread. The work when taken out to full scope in the naturalist setting just doesnt support the urban crossover that supported the other work. It was the graffiti tagged statues, underwater, with wild animals taking over that peaked interest. Take those same animals, put them in the woods, and a lot of the market lost their connection.
If you are looking for your animals in uncommon settings fix, might I suggest some of the new pieces of Gerard Ellis. I think Gerard is poised to produce an amazing body of work and has grown outside the hype.
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lifeonwalls
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,407
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September 2007
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The Collector PERSPECTIVE Thread - Josh Keyes on Secondary, by lifeonwalls on Mar 13, 2014 17:22:03 GMT 1, ^ agree with sin.
The supply of paintings was at first of course limited but over the years the output has been pretty consistent while the prices shot up quite dramatically. The demand for his paintings and inherent price increase could have been a result of the volume of prints he produced - lots of people could own work at a reasonable cost and then wanted to 'graduate' to an original and could afford $3-8k for one. The prices went up, the herd was thinned, and now his prices don't have anywhere to go.
Now that there's no shortage of prints and the prices for originals have priced out those first batch of collectors there is less interest in acquiring a painting - they might not feel as 'special' to some anymore (myself included) and those who bought a painting at a high cost have outgrown it and/or fear that it won't retain it's value in the next few years.
I was a huge Keyes fan and owned many, many prints. I sold a significant amount of them and am only holding on to a choice few. I like that he is reaching out and trying something new "freeing the animals from their cubes" as he said, but it's not for me.
^ agree with sin.
The supply of paintings was at first of course limited but over the years the output has been pretty consistent while the prices shot up quite dramatically. The demand for his paintings and inherent price increase could have been a result of the volume of prints he produced - lots of people could own work at a reasonable cost and then wanted to 'graduate' to an original and could afford $3-8k for one. The prices went up, the herd was thinned, and now his prices don't have anywhere to go.
Now that there's no shortage of prints and the prices for originals have priced out those first batch of collectors there is less interest in acquiring a painting - they might not feel as 'special' to some anymore (myself included) and those who bought a painting at a high cost have outgrown it and/or fear that it won't retain it's value in the next few years.
I was a huge Keyes fan and owned many, many prints. I sold a significant amount of them and am only holding on to a choice few. I like that he is reaching out and trying something new "freeing the animals from their cubes" as he said, but it's not for me.
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Now it's just huntsman's kitsch. 
