Sacked...
Full Member
Posts โข 7,978
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October 2007
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Sacked... on Aug 13, 2014 20:46:44 GMT 1, The article covers common practices employed such as requesting buyers at the primary level to offer the work back to the gallery should/ when they decide to sell, and also bidding up work by the artist at auction. It also suggests that the auction houses are often involved in the latter, notifying an artist's primary dealer if pre-auction interest is limited and if there is a risk of the work not selling or selling below estimate:
galleristny.com/2014/08/bidding-up-escalating-prices-are-putting-pressure-on-dealers-to-double-down-on-their-own-artists/
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dwight
New Member
Posts โข 539
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November 2006
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by dwight on Aug 14, 2014 0:22:55 GMT 1, Great article and 100% true.
Great article and 100% true.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 1:00:23 GMT 1, โI have bid up prices to appropriate levels, when auction houses have estimated too low works by artists whom I represent"
wow. and this is what they're admitting to... i wonder how bad the stuff they won't admit is?
โI have bid up prices to appropriate levels, when auction houses have estimated too low works by artists whom I represent"
wow. and this is what they're admitting to... i wonder how bad the stuff they won't admit is?
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 1:07:58 GMT 1, if anyone wants my unmade bed, I'll sell it for less than half of Tracey Emin's. 2 million takes it!
if anyone wants my unmade bed, I'll sell it for less than half of Tracey Emin's. 2 million takes it!
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alittle
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,575
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November 2012
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by alittle on Aug 14, 2014 1:11:04 GMT 1, Not surprising, really. Poor secondary market sales hurt the primary market.
Not surprising, really. Poor secondary market sales hurt the primary market.
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Black Apple Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,007
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September 2013
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Black Apple Art on Aug 14, 2014 1:29:52 GMT 1,
It's been posted before but a great documentary. I have the full version if anyone wants to DL it.
It's been posted before but a great documentary. I have the full version if anyone wants to DL it.
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met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,688
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June 2009
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by met on Aug 14, 2014 1:39:04 GMT 1,
As many will know, it's also common practice and legal for auction houses to make chandelier bids (i.e. to bid themselves) up to the level just below the reserve price.
The idea is to give bidders and potential bidders (at least the inexperienced ones) the misleading impression that works are commanding more interest from fellow collectors than is in fact the case.
This shilling is a highly-effective and dishonest psychological tactic. It generates greater energy and excitement in the auction room, and encourages bidders to believe that others โ astute competitors, bastard rivals โ are willing to pay comparable sums for the works they're interested in. The confidence of the genuine bidders is thereby artificially bolstered, which can push them to pay more for pieces than they had originally planned.
For the above reason, bids beneath any reserve amount should never be taken at face value. Quoting such bids (including those at online auction platforms like artnet) betrays an ignorance of how auction houses work. It's putting forward unreliable and unverifiable information.
As many will know, it's also common practice and legal for auction houses to make chandelier bids (i.e. to bid themselves) up to the level just below the reserve price. The idea is to give bidders and potential bidders (at least the inexperienced ones) the misleading impression that works are commanding more interest from fellow collectors than is in fact the case. This shilling is a highly-effective and dishonest psychological tactic. It generates greater energy and excitement in the auction room, and encourages bidders to believe that others โ astute competitors, bastard rivals โ are willing to pay comparable sums for the works they're interested in. The confidence of the genuine bidders is thereby artificially bolstered, which can push them to pay more for pieces than they had originally planned. For the above reason, bids beneath any reserve amount should never be taken at face value. Quoting such bids (including those at online auction platforms like artnet) betrays an ignorance of how auction houses work. It's putting forward unreliable and unverifiable information. |
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trees
New Member
Posts โข 130
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April 2014
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by trees on Aug 14, 2014 15:32:04 GMT 1,
Was just getting into this when it cut off. Would love to see the rest. Could u send me the link ? Thanks
It's been posted before but a great documentary. I have the full version if anyone wants to DL it.ย
Was just getting into this when it cut off. Would love to see the rest. Could u send me the link ? Thanks It's been posted before but a great documentary. I have the full version if anyone wants to DL it.ย |
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dwight
New Member
Posts โข 539
Likes โข 285
November 2006
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by dwight on Aug 14, 2014 15:34:46 GMT 1, not just up to the reserve price....if its a market they are active in, they will bid it up to the wholesale price and if they are the high bidder, then they will pay the consignor (less the seller's commission of course)
not just up to the reserve price....if its a market they are active in, they will bid it up to the wholesale price and if they are the high bidder, then they will pay the consignor (less the seller's commission of course)
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Shoot Again
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,522
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April 2011
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Shoot Again on Aug 14, 2014 16:05:32 GMT 1,
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 18:15:04 GMT 1, ah yes, how they try to create an aura of mystique and myth around a clown called Warhol.
The art world certainly does exist on two levels.
The high end where art sells for millions looks like a big ponzi scheme that needs regulating.
Comparing Warhol and controlling the market to controlling the market in commodities etc makes no sense because people can live without Warhols.
If chandelier bidding was made illegal which it should be and if tax loopholes were closed then art prices should drop for many artists whose only purpose to buyers is a way of avoiding tax or hiding money.
The taxpayer funded insititutions don't help either.
The Tate has Emins s**tty bed on loan for ten years and exhibits only art that has high investment or resale value.
So in effect it's not an art gallery just a shop window to capitalist greed.
ah yes, how they try to create an aura of mystique and myth around a clown called Warhol.
The art world certainly does exist on two levels.
The high end where art sells for millions looks like a big ponzi scheme that needs regulating.
Comparing Warhol and controlling the market to controlling the market in commodities etc makes no sense because people can live without Warhols.
If chandelier bidding was made illegal which it should be and if tax loopholes were closed then art prices should drop for many artists whose only purpose to buyers is a way of avoiding tax or hiding money.
The taxpayer funded insititutions don't help either.
The Tate has Emins s**tty bed on loan for ten years and exhibits only art that has high investment or resale value.
So in effect it's not an art gallery just a shop window to capitalist greed.
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by johnnyh on Aug 14, 2014 22:04:26 GMT 1, ah yes, how they try to create an aura of mystique and myth around a clown called Warhol.
The art world certainly does exist on two levels.
The high end where art sells for millions looks like a big ponzi scheme that needs regulating.
Comparing Warhol and controlling the market to controlling the market in commodities etc makes no sense because people can live without Warhols.
If chandelier bidding was made illegal which it should be and if tax loopholes were closed then art prices should drop for many artists whose only purpose to buyers is a way of avoiding tax or hiding money.
The taxpayer funded insititutions don't help either.
The Tate has Emins s**tty bed on loan for ten years and exhibits only art that has high investment or resale value.
So in effect it's not an art gallery just a shop window to capitalist greed.
And nd when does regulation start??
there is no shortage of art to choose from and onset price for a piece of art. Many buyers buy art because it is expensive and rare etc. galleries do hype artist but some are better than others etc. but no one is forced to buy anything.
auction houses being involved in bidding is wrong and should be dealt with legally.
re the Tate that's just daft.....
Sacked loved the article really interesting read. Likewise Backapple would love to see the whole vid will try and find it
ah yes, how they try to create an aura of mystique and myth around a clown called Warhol.
The art world certainly does exist on two levels.
The high end where art sells for millions looks like a big ponzi scheme that needs regulating.
Comparing Warhol and controlling the market to controlling the market in commodities etc makes no sense because people can live without Warhols.
If chandelier bidding was made illegal which it should be and if tax loopholes were closed then art prices should drop for many artists whose only purpose to buyers is a way of avoiding tax or hiding money.
The taxpayer funded insititutions don't help either.
The Tate has Emins s**tty bed on loan for ten years and exhibits only art that has high investment or resale value.
So in effect it's not an art gallery just a shop window to capitalist greed.
Ploppi as you say people can live without Warhols so therefore why regulate it. If someone believes what they read and wants to buy it then they can pay what they like surely. Regulation will not solve it. And nd when does regulation start?? there is no shortage of art to choose from and onset price for a piece of art. Many buyers buy art because it is expensive and rare etc. galleries do hype artist but some are better than others etc. but no one is forced to buy anything. auction houses being involved in bidding is wrong and should be dealt with legally. re the Tate that's just daft..... Sacked loved the article really interesting read. Likewise Backapple would love to see the whole vid will try and find it |
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 22:06:52 GMT 1, ah yes, how they try to create an aura of mystique and myth around a clown called Warhol.
The art world certainly does exist on two levels.
The high end where art sells for millions looks like a big ponzi scheme that needs regulating.
Comparing Warhol and controlling the market to controlling the market in commodities etc makes no sense because people can live without Warhols.
If chandelier bidding was made illegal which it should be and if tax loopholes were closed then art prices should drop for many artists whose only purpose to buyers is a way of avoiding tax or hiding money.
The taxpayer funded insititutions don't help either.
The Tate has Emins s**tty bed on loan for ten years and exhibits only art that has high investment or resale value.
So in effect it's not an art gallery just a shop window to capitalist greed.
Ploppi as you say people can live without Warhols so therefore why regulate it. If someone believes what they read and wants to buy it then they can pay what they like surely. Regulation will not solve it. And nd when does regulation start?? there is no shortage of art to choose from and onset price for a piece of art. Many buyers buy art because it is expensive and rare etc. galleries do hype artist but some are better than others etc. but no one is forced to buy anything. auction houses being involved in bidding is wrong and should be dealt with legally. re the Tate that's just daft..... 
ah yes, how they try to create an aura of mystique and myth around a clown called Warhol.
The art world certainly does exist on two levels.
The high end where art sells for millions looks like a big ponzi scheme that needs regulating.
Comparing Warhol and controlling the market to controlling the market in commodities etc makes no sense because people can live without Warhols.
If chandelier bidding was made illegal which it should be and if tax loopholes were closed then art prices should drop for many artists whose only purpose to buyers is a way of avoiding tax or hiding money.
The taxpayer funded insititutions don't help either.
The Tate has Emins s**tty bed on loan for ten years and exhibits only art that has high investment or resale value.
So in effect it's not an art gallery just a shop window to capitalist greed.
Ploppi as you say people can live without Warhols so therefore why regulate it. If someone believes what they read and wants to buy it then they can pay what they like surely. Regulation will not solve it. And nd when does regulation start?? there is no shortage of art to choose from and onset price for a piece of art. Many buyers buy art because it is expensive and rare etc. galleries do hype artist but some are better than others etc. but no one is forced to buy anything. auction houses being involved in bidding is wrong and should be dealt with legally. re the Tate that's just daft..... I wish someone would regulate the price on my Warhol. |
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by johnnyh on Aug 14, 2014 22:34:36 GMT 1,
I know, I know you want to pay 10 million unfortunately I have had this piece for some time and I'm afraid the highest I can charge you is 4 million tops. So either take it or leave it but I won't go any higher
I know, I know you want to pay 10 million unfortunately I have had this piece for some time and I'm afraid the highest I can charge you is 4 million tops. So either take it or leave it but I won't go any higher |
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 22:46:51 GMT 1, I think one reason for the high rising prices of contemporary artists like Hirst, Banksy Emin and some American contemporaries etc etc etc is confidence in authentication.
There have been allรฉgations of people taking Warhols to the foundation or whatever autheticates W and being told that it would not get autheticated.
Some alledge it's to protect the allready authenticated Warhol prices.
Others have had problems with other big names of the Warhol era like De Kooning etc.
Authentication is very murky and the art and sales are controlled too with deals done between big dealers and auction houses.
So it's easier and safer to move to buying and spend big money on living artists which makes their prices rise high and fast and leaves other artists prices where they are.
As for early 20th c impressionists and other artists pre war thats another story.
I think one reason for the high rising prices of contemporary artists like Hirst, Banksy Emin and some American contemporaries etc etc etc is confidence in authentication.
There have been allรฉgations of people taking Warhols to the foundation or whatever autheticates W and being told that it would not get autheticated.
Some alledge it's to protect the allready authenticated Warhol prices.
Others have had problems with other big names of the Warhol era like De Kooning etc.
Authentication is very murky and the art and sales are controlled too with deals done between big dealers and auction houses.
So it's easier and safer to move to buying and spend big money on living artists which makes their prices rise high and fast and leaves other artists prices where they are.
As for early 20th c impressionists and other artists pre war thats another story.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 23:15:16 GMT 1, I know, I know you want to pay 10 million unfortunately I have had this piece for some time and I'm afraid the highest I can charge you is 4 million tops. So either take it or leave it but I won't go any higher LOL Johnny, I was talking about the one I own. I bought a cheap one at the time and it's still one of the cheapies (all things being relative).
Art Protectors, Help a brother out!!!
I know, I know you want to pay 10 million unfortunately I have had this piece for some time and I'm afraid the highest I can charge you is 4 million tops. So either take it or leave it but I won't go any higher LOL Johnny, I was talking about the one I own. I bought a cheap one at the time and it's still one of the cheapies (all things being relative).
Art Protectors, Help a brother out!!!
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by johnnyh on Aug 14, 2014 23:26:06 GMT 1, Ha ha sorry chap. You lucky bugger congrats consider it regulated....it's now worth 1 million!!
Ha ha sorry chap. You lucky bugger congrats consider it regulated....it's now worth 1 million!!
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 23:29:24 GMT 1, Ha ha sorry chap. You lucky bugger congrats consider it regulated....it's now worth 1 million!!
Haha, thank you kindly, it feels good to finally be on the "inside"
Ha ha sorry chap. You lucky bugger congrats consider it regulated....it's now worth 1 million!! Haha, thank you kindly, it feels good to finally be on the "inside" |
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
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January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 23:31:49 GMT 1, Uuhhh... Jonny? ... How much exactly is one million peso's worth?
Uuhhh... Jonny? ... How much exactly is one million peso's worth?
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johnnyh
Junior Member
Posts โข 4,492
Likes โข 2,102
March 2011
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by johnnyh on Aug 15, 2014 5:19:31 GMT 1, Uuhhh... Jonny? ... How much exactly is one million peso's worth?
Aahhh the pesos.
I can of course tell you the value of the pesos however I think in this instance it is worth remembering that this is the artworld. Sorry to say fella we are discussing Vietnamese Dong here.
Uuhhh... Jonny? ... How much exactly is one million peso's worth? Aahhh the pesos. I can of course tell you the value of the pesos however I think in this instance it is worth remembering that this is the artworld. Sorry to say fella we are discussing Vietnamese Dong here. |
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thomasmer
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,107
Likes โข 565
July 2014
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by thomasmer on Aug 15, 2014 6:47:41 GMT 1, How many of you shill bid on ebay?
Same, but bigger.
How many of you shill bid on ebay?
Same, but bigger.
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Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
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How & why a gallery/dealer protects an artists market., by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 15:14:45 GMT 1, Uuhhh... Jonny? ... How much exactly is one million peso's worth? Aahhh the pesos. I can of course tell you the value of the pesos however I think in this instance it is worth remembering that this is the artworld. Sorry to say fella we are discussing Vietnamese Dong here.
LOFL! Only because I'm a Top Gear fan do I actually know how much that is 
Uuhhh... Jonny? ... How much exactly is one million peso's worth? Aahhh the pesos. I can of course tell you the value of the pesos however I think in this instance it is worth remembering that this is the artworld. Sorry to say fella we are discussing Vietnamese Dong here. LOFL! Only because I'm a Top Gear fan do I actually know how much that is |
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