met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,691
Likes โข 6,321
June 2009
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by met on Dec 1, 2014 1:58:05 GMT 1, **** Assistant Moderator Alert **** Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post. Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless. If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need. I am completely dumbfounded by this thread as an active forum member and as a staff member. It's so bizarre that many people feel the need to attack a gallery for giving us a heads up on potential desirable releases and also attacking the artists that his gallery represents. Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community.
There follows another essay for members to consider or dismiss according to their individual predilections.
It will lack popularity, and that's okay.
------------------
I generally avoid referring to posts I consider misguided or moronic. But I'll make an exception with your "Alert" because its content and general tone of mild hysteria are more than just unhelpful. From my perspective, they're actually harmful to this forum.
1. "Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless."
What exactly were you referring to when reaching that conclusion and making that declaration? You've got my attention now. Which comments specifically?
2. "If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need."
Is this for real? Presumably, it relates to the viewpoint expressed by Neate Michael. Did you even read it? If so, then either you failed to understand neatemichael's words, or for whatever reason you consciously distorted them.
You've described other comments as being "completely irresponsible". In fact, it's the leap you made that was completely irresponsible โ taking a personal opinion expressed by a fellow forum member about one image, and then equating it to them accusing the artist of being a racist. Whether you did this by intention or by stupidity, shame on you.
I've never had any communications with neatemichael. Nor do I agree with their opinion on this occasion, despite understanding where they're coming from. But I will state you owe them an apology.
When having a go at someone in your official capacity of Ass Mod, you're acting on behalf of the whole forum. That comes with a minimum duty of making sure you at least get your facts right.
kunstrasen himself has previously acknowledged his unfortunate defensiveness in response to critique of his work. No doubt he'd be among the first to admit his interests would be better served by growing a thicker skin. Yet even he immediately understood the crucial difference between (a) an individual's feelings of personal discomfort about a specific artwork, and (b) an attack on the character of the artist.
Separately, these are the types of issues truly worth debating on the forum. With difficult subject matters, it's all the more important for exchanges of different ideas and opinions to take place openly. The suggestion that such discussions should be restricted to private messages is ridiculous.
"Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post." That's pretty sound advice you typed. Consider following it yourself.
3. "Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community."
If you wish to support commercial releases of derivative artwork, that is your prerogative. Although not everyone shares your opinion. And the sooner this reality sinks into your head, the sooner you will cease to remain "completely dumbfounded".
Inexperienced art enthusiasts and collectors may well get excited regarding the sale of just about anything. It's all still fresh and new to them. In itself, not a bad thing. The main downside is that their more limited knowledge means fewer bases for comparison โ which is why they're more likely to make expensive purchases they later regret.
However, there are other forum members here who've been around for some time and learnt from experience. They recognise styles copied from other artists, and tired ideas that have been rehashed ad nauseum. Many believe the endless monetisation of clichรฉd imagery is damaging to this so-called "community" you constantly refer to. It reflects poorly on each of us. Whether we like it or not, we get tarred by association with all the shรญt produced under the banner of urban art.
In threads advertising releases of prints or originals, voices of dissent and caution serve as a healthy counterbalance. They encourage others to slow down a little and make more considered purchases โ rather than getting caught up in some collective online euphoria carefully fuelled by those with vested financial interests. To brush off all such posts as "attacks" may be convenient for you, since it reduces the need for critical thought. It is also myopic. And recklessly so, bearing in mind your position on the forum.
Young guns who latch onto and try to ride the waves of graffiti or street art are aligning themselves with, and capitalising on, pre-established histories. That comes with a responsibility. And treating whole cultures as mere cash cows โ for example, by cynically hijacking the term "Graffiti" and incorporating it into the name of a business to sell some prints that have little (if anything) to do with graffiti โ is not fulfilling that responsibility. I consider it opportunistic and, quite often, parasitic. Rarely do I see these ventures pushing the cultures forward by innovating. For the most part, their output seems to be watered-down, diluted variations and decorative retail versions of what has already been done more capably by their predecessors.
I usually applaud people who are proactive, who get off their seats and do something, rather than simply being spectators or consumers. But if their contributions amount to a regression, an insult to a rich cultural heritage, then my position changes.
Again, you are of course free to support and promote whatever you want. If you wish to fly the flag of the art equivalents of Green Day or Good Charlotte, that's entirely your choice.
As for myself, I've thrown in my lot with those who expect the best from the people trying to get us to part with our cash. Artists, dealers, print houses and publishers are the most visible ambassadors within the art scene. And when their actions or products are uninspired, unoriginal, or lazy and greedy, it's only fair they be challenged, if not criticised. Or even ostracised. Given that their current positions are in large part thanks to us, we โ and the graffiti and street art scenes more broadly โ deserve better from them than second-rate offerings.
You appear to disregard negative posts as "bringing down our community", as if all critique stems from envy or pettiness.
I call it a passionate attempt to safeguard much-loved cultures. I call it pushing, encouraging those cultures to grow and flourish, rather than flounder and succumb to fates of mediocrity brought upon by often-clueless arrivistes.
**** Assistant Moderator Alert **** Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post. Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless. If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need. I am completely dumbfounded by this thread as an active forum member and as a staff member. It's so bizarre that many people feel the need to attack a gallery for giving us a heads up on potential desirable releases and also attacking the artists that his gallery represents. Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community. There follows another essay for members to consider or dismiss according to their individual predilections. It will lack popularity, and that's okay. ------------------ I generally avoid referring to posts I consider misguided or moronic. But I'll make an exception with your "Alert" because its content and general tone of mild hysteria are more than just unhelpful. From my perspective, they're actually harmful to this forum. 1. "Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless."What exactly were you referring to when reaching that conclusion and making that declaration? You've got my attention now. Which comments specifically? 2. "If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need."Is this for real? Presumably, it relates to the viewpoint expressed by Neate Michael. Did you even read it? If so, then either you failed to understand neatemichael's words, or for whatever reason you consciously distorted them. You've described other comments as being "completely irresponsible". In fact, it's the leap you made that was completely irresponsible โ taking a personal opinion expressed by a fellow forum member about one image, and then equating it to them accusing the artist of being a racist. Whether you did this by intention or by stupidity, shame on you. I've never had any communications with neatemichael. Nor do I agree with their opinion on this occasion, despite understanding where they're coming from. But I will state you owe them an apology. When having a go at someone in your official capacity of Ass Mod, you're acting on behalf of the whole forum. That comes with a minimum duty of making sure you at least get your facts right. kunstrasen himself has previously acknowledged his unfortunate defensiveness in response to critique of his work. No doubt he'd be among the first to admit his interests would be better served by growing a thicker skin. Yet even he immediately understood the crucial difference between (a) an individual's feelings of personal discomfort about a specific artwork, and (b) an attack on the character of the artist. Separately, these are the types of issues truly worth debating on the forum. With difficult subject matters, it's all the more important for exchanges of different ideas and opinions to take place openly. The suggestion that such discussions should be restricted to private messages is ridiculous. "Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post." That's pretty sound advice you typed. Consider following it yourself. 3. "Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community."If you wish to support commercial releases of derivative artwork, that is your prerogative. Although not everyone shares your opinion. And the sooner this reality sinks into your head, the sooner you will cease to remain "completely dumbfounded". Inexperienced art enthusiasts and collectors may well get excited regarding the sale of just about anything. It's all still fresh and new to them. In itself, not a bad thing. The main downside is that their more limited knowledge means fewer bases for comparison โ which is why they're more likely to make expensive purchases they later regret. However, there are other forum members here who've been around for some time and learnt from experience. They recognise styles copied from other artists, and tired ideas that have been rehashed ad nauseum. Many believe the endless monetisation of clichรฉd imagery is damaging to this so-called "community" you constantly refer to. It reflects poorly on each of us. Whether we like it or not, we get tarred by association with all the shรญt produced under the banner of urban art. In threads advertising releases of prints or originals, voices of dissent and caution serve as a healthy counterbalance. They encourage others to slow down a little and make more considered purchases โ rather than getting caught up in some collective online euphoria carefully fuelled by those with vested financial interests. To brush off all such posts as "attacks" may be convenient for you, since it reduces the need for critical thought. It is also myopic. And recklessly so, bearing in mind your position on the forum. Young guns who latch onto and try to ride the waves of graffiti or street art are aligning themselves with, and capitalising on, pre-established histories. That comes with a responsibility. And treating whole cultures as mere cash cows โ for example, by cynically hijacking the term "Graffiti" and incorporating it into the name of a business to sell some prints that have little (if anything) to do with graffiti โ is not fulfilling that responsibility. I consider it opportunistic and, quite often, parasitic. Rarely do I see these ventures pushing the cultures forward by innovating. For the most part, their output seems to be watered-down, diluted variations and decorative retail versions of what has already been done more capably by their predecessors. I usually applaud people who are proactive, who get off their seats and do something, rather than simply being spectators or consumers. But if their contributions amount to a regression, an insult to a rich cultural heritage, then my position changes. Again, you are of course free to support and promote whatever you want. If you wish to fly the flag of the art equivalents of Green Day or Good Charlotte, that's entirely your choice. As for myself, I've thrown in my lot with those who expect the best from the people trying to get us to part with our cash. Artists, dealers, print houses and publishers are the most visible ambassadors within the art scene. And when their actions or products are uninspired, unoriginal, or lazy and greedy, it's only fair they be challenged, if not criticised. Or even ostracised. Given that their current positions are in large part thanks to us, we โ and the graffiti and street art scenes more broadly โ deserve better from them than second-rate offerings. You appear to disregard negative posts as "bringing down our community", as if all critique stems from envy or pettiness. I call it a passionate attempt to safeguard much-loved cultures. I call it pushing, encouraging those cultures to grow and flourish, rather than flounder and succumb to fates of mediocrity brought upon by often-clueless arrivistes.
|
|
bone
New Member
Posts โข 416
Likes โข 157
September 2013
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by bone on Dec 1, 2014 2:05:07 GMT 1, **** Assistant Moderator Alert **** Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post. Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless. If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need. I am completely dumbfounded by this thread as an active forum member and as a staff member. It's so bizarre that many people feel the need to attack a gallery for giving us a heads up on potential desirable releases and also attacking the artists that his gallery represents. Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community. There follows another essay for members to consider or dismiss according to their individual predilections. It will lack popularity, and that's okay. ------------------ I generally avoid referring toย posts I consider misguided or moronic. But I'll make an exception with your "Alert" because its content and general tone of mild hysteria are more than just unhelpful. From my perspective, they're actually harmful to this forum. 1. "Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless." ย What exactlyย were you referring to when reachingย thatย conclusion and making thatย declaration? You've got my attention now. Which comments specifically? 2. "If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do soย by PM if you feel the need."Is this for real? Presumably, itย relates to the viewpoint expressed byย Neate Michael.ย Did you even read it? If so,ย then either youย failed to understand neatemichael's words, or for whatever reason you consciously distorted them. You've described other comments as being "completely irresponsible". In fact, it's the leap you made that was completely irresponsible โ taking a personal opinion expressed by a fellow forum member about one image, and then equating it to them accusing the artist of being a racist. Whether you did this by intention or by stupidity, shame on you. I've never had any communications with neatemichael. Nor do I agree with their opinion on this occasion, despite understanding where they're coming from. But I will state you owe them an apology. When having a go at someone in your official capacity of Ass Mod, you're acting on behalf of the whole forum. That comes with a minimum duty of making sure you at least get your facts right. kunstrasen himselfย hasย previously acknowledged his unfortunateย defensiveness in response to critique of his work. No doubt he'd be among the first to admit his interests would be better served by growing a thicker skin. Yet even he immediately understood the crucial difference between (a) an individual's feelings of personal discomfort about a specific artwork, and (b) an attack on the character of the artist. Separately, these are the types of issues truly worth debating on the forum. With difficult subject matters, it's all the more important for exchanges of different ideas and opinions to take place openly. The suggestion that such discussions should be restricted to private messages is ridiculous. "Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post." That's pretty sound advice you typed. Consider following it yourself. 3. "Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community."If you wish to support commercial releases of derivative artwork, that is your prerogative. Although not everyone shares your opinion. And the sooner this reality sinks into your head, the sooner you will cease to remain "completely dumbfounded". Inexperienced art enthusiasts and collectors may well get excited regarding the sale of just about anything. It's all still fresh and new to them. In itself, not a bad thing. The main downside is that their more limited knowledge means fewer bases for comparison โ which is why they're more likely to make expensive purchases they later regret. However, there are other forum members here who've been around for some time and learnt from experience. They recognise styles copied from other artists, and tired ideas that have been rehashed ad nauseum. Many believe the endless monetisation of clichรฉd imagery is damaging to this so-called "community" you constantly refer to. It reflects poorly on each of us. Whether we like it or not, we get tarred by association with all the shรญt produced under the banner of urban art. In threads advertising releases of prints or originals, voices of dissent and caution serve as a healthy counterbalance. They encourage others to slow down a little and make more considered purchases โ rather than getting caught up in some collective online euphoria carefully fuelled by those with vested financial interests. To brush off all such posts as "attacks" may be convenient for you, since it reduces the need for critical thought. It is also myopic. And recklessly so, bearing in mind your position on the forum. Young guns who latch onto and try to ride the waves of graffiti or street art are aligning themselves with, and capitalising on, pre-established histories. That comes with a responsibility. And treating whole cultures as mere cash cows โ for example, by cynically hijacking the term "Graffiti" and incorporating it into the name of a business to sell some prints that have little (if anything) to do with graffiti โ is not fulfilling that responsibility. I consider it opportunistic and, quite often, parasitic. Rarely do I see these ventures pushing the cultures forward by innovating. For the most part, their output seems to be watered-down, diluted variations and decorative retail versions of what has already been done more capably by their predecessors. I usually applaud people who are proactive, who get off their seats and do something, rather than simply being spectators or consumers. But if their contributions amount to a regression, an insult to a rich cultural heritage, then my position changes. Again, you are of course free to support and promote whatever you want. If you wish to fly the flag of the art equivalents of Green Day or Good Charlotte, that's entirely your choice. As for myself, I've thrown in my lot with those who expect the best from the people trying to get us to part with our cash. Artists, dealers, print houses and publishers are the most visible ambassadors within the art scene. And when their actions or products are uninspired, unoriginal, or lazy and greedy, it's only fair they be challenged, if not criticised. Or even ostracised. Given that their current positions are in large part thanks to us, we โ and the graffiti and street art scenes more broadly โย deserve better from them than second-rate offerings. You appear to disregard negative posts as "bringing down our community", as if all critique stems from envy or pettiness. I call it a passionate attempt to safeguard much-loved cultures. I call it pushing, encouraging those cultures to grow and flourish, rather than flounder and succumb to fates of mediocrity brought upon by often-clueless arrivistes.
You have way to much time on your hands
**** Assistant Moderator Alert **** Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post. Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless. If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need. I am completely dumbfounded by this thread as an active forum member and as a staff member. It's so bizarre that many people feel the need to attack a gallery for giving us a heads up on potential desirable releases and also attacking the artists that his gallery represents. Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community. There follows another essay for members to consider or dismiss according to their individual predilections. It will lack popularity, and that's okay. ------------------ I generally avoid referring toย posts I consider misguided or moronic. But I'll make an exception with your "Alert" because its content and general tone of mild hysteria are more than just unhelpful. From my perspective, they're actually harmful to this forum. 1. "Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless." ย What exactlyย were you referring to when reachingย thatย conclusion and making thatย declaration? You've got my attention now. Which comments specifically? 2. "If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do soย by PM if you feel the need."Is this for real? Presumably, itย relates to the viewpoint expressed byย Neate Michael.ย Did you even read it? If so,ย then either youย failed to understand neatemichael's words, or for whatever reason you consciously distorted them. You've described other comments as being "completely irresponsible". In fact, it's the leap you made that was completely irresponsible โ taking a personal opinion expressed by a fellow forum member about one image, and then equating it to them accusing the artist of being a racist. Whether you did this by intention or by stupidity, shame on you. I've never had any communications with neatemichael. Nor do I agree with their opinion on this occasion, despite understanding where they're coming from. But I will state you owe them an apology. When having a go at someone in your official capacity of Ass Mod, you're acting on behalf of the whole forum. That comes with a minimum duty of making sure you at least get your facts right. kunstrasen himselfย hasย previously acknowledged his unfortunateย defensiveness in response to critique of his work. No doubt he'd be among the first to admit his interests would be better served by growing a thicker skin. Yet even he immediately understood the crucial difference between (a) an individual's feelings of personal discomfort about a specific artwork, and (b) an attack on the character of the artist. Separately, these are the types of issues truly worth debating on the forum. With difficult subject matters, it's all the more important for exchanges of different ideas and opinions to take place openly. The suggestion that such discussions should be restricted to private messages is ridiculous. "Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post." That's pretty sound advice you typed. Consider following it yourself. 3. "Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community."If you wish to support commercial releases of derivative artwork, that is your prerogative. Although not everyone shares your opinion. And the sooner this reality sinks into your head, the sooner you will cease to remain "completely dumbfounded". Inexperienced art enthusiasts and collectors may well get excited regarding the sale of just about anything. It's all still fresh and new to them. In itself, not a bad thing. The main downside is that their more limited knowledge means fewer bases for comparison โ which is why they're more likely to make expensive purchases they later regret. However, there are other forum members here who've been around for some time and learnt from experience. They recognise styles copied from other artists, and tired ideas that have been rehashed ad nauseum. Many believe the endless monetisation of clichรฉd imagery is damaging to this so-called "community" you constantly refer to. It reflects poorly on each of us. Whether we like it or not, we get tarred by association with all the shรญt produced under the banner of urban art. In threads advertising releases of prints or originals, voices of dissent and caution serve as a healthy counterbalance. They encourage others to slow down a little and make more considered purchases โ rather than getting caught up in some collective online euphoria carefully fuelled by those with vested financial interests. To brush off all such posts as "attacks" may be convenient for you, since it reduces the need for critical thought. It is also myopic. And recklessly so, bearing in mind your position on the forum. Young guns who latch onto and try to ride the waves of graffiti or street art are aligning themselves with, and capitalising on, pre-established histories. That comes with a responsibility. And treating whole cultures as mere cash cows โ for example, by cynically hijacking the term "Graffiti" and incorporating it into the name of a business to sell some prints that have little (if anything) to do with graffiti โ is not fulfilling that responsibility. I consider it opportunistic and, quite often, parasitic. Rarely do I see these ventures pushing the cultures forward by innovating. For the most part, their output seems to be watered-down, diluted variations and decorative retail versions of what has already been done more capably by their predecessors. I usually applaud people who are proactive, who get off their seats and do something, rather than simply being spectators or consumers. But if their contributions amount to a regression, an insult to a rich cultural heritage, then my position changes. Again, you are of course free to support and promote whatever you want. If you wish to fly the flag of the art equivalents of Green Day or Good Charlotte, that's entirely your choice. As for myself, I've thrown in my lot with those who expect the best from the people trying to get us to part with our cash. Artists, dealers, print houses and publishers are the most visible ambassadors within the art scene. And when their actions or products are uninspired, unoriginal, or lazy and greedy, it's only fair they be challenged, if not criticised. Or even ostracised. Given that their current positions are in large part thanks to us, we โ and the graffiti and street art scenes more broadly โย deserve better from them than second-rate offerings. You appear to disregard negative posts as "bringing down our community", as if all critique stems from envy or pettiness. I call it a passionate attempt to safeguard much-loved cultures. I call it pushing, encouraging those cultures to grow and flourish, rather than flounder and succumb to fates of mediocrity brought upon by often-clueless arrivistes. You have way to much time on your hands
|
|
met
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,691
Likes โข 6,321
June 2009
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by met on Dec 1, 2014 2:08:22 GMT 1, You have way to much time on your hands That is a fair comment.
You have way to much time on your hands That is a fair comment.
|
|
curiousgeorge
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,833
Likes โข 1,091
March 2007
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by curiousgeorge on Dec 1, 2014 2:39:39 GMT 1, You have way to much time on your hands That is a fair comment. We can all be guilty of this, howeverโฆ.
Met does raise very valid points
You have way to much time on your hands That is a fair comment. We can all be guilty of this, howeverโฆ. Met does raise very valid points
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 5:03:32 GMT 1, **** Assistant Moderator Alert **** Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post. Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless. If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need. I am completely dumbfounded by this thread as an active forum member and as a staff member. It's so bizarre that many people feel the need to attack a gallery for giving us a heads up on potential desirable releases and also attacking the artists that his gallery represents. Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community. There follows another essay for members to consider or dismiss according to their individual predilections. It will lack popularity, and that's okay. ------------------ I generally avoid referring to posts I consider misguided or moronic. But I'll make an exception with your "Alert" because its content and general tone of mild hysteria are more than just unhelpful. From my perspective, they're actually harmful to this forum. 1. "Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless." What exactly were you referring to when reaching that conclusion and making that declaration? You've got my attention now. Which comments specifically? 2. "If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need."Is this for real? Presumably, it relates to the viewpoint expressed by Neate Michael. Did you even read it? If so, then either you failed to understand neatemichael's words, or for whatever reason you consciously distorted them. You've described other comments as being "completely irresponsible". In fact, it's the leap you made that was completely irresponsible โ taking a personal opinion expressed by a fellow forum member about one image, and then equating it to them accusing the artist of being a racist. Whether you did this by intention or by stupidity, shame on you. I've never had any communications with neatemichael. Nor do I agree with their opinion on this occasion, despite understanding where they're coming from. But I will state you owe them an apology. When having a go at someone in your official capacity of Ass Mod, you're acting on behalf of the whole forum. That comes with a minimum duty of making sure you at least get your facts right. kunstrasen himself has previously acknowledged his unfortunate defensiveness in response to critique of his work. No doubt he'd be among the first to admit his interests would be better served by growing a thicker skin. Yet even he immediately understood the crucial difference between (a) an individual's feelings of personal discomfort about a specific artwork, and (b) an attack on the character of the artist. Separately, these are the types of issues truly worth debating on the forum. With difficult subject matters, it's all the more important for exchanges of different ideas and opinions to take place openly. The suggestion that such discussions should be restricted to private messages is ridiculous. "Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post." That's pretty sound advice you typed. Consider following it yourself. 3. "Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community."If you wish to support commercial releases of derivative artwork, that is your prerogative. Although not everyone shares your opinion. And the sooner this reality sinks into your head, the sooner you will cease to remain "completely dumbfounded". Inexperienced art enthusiasts and collectors may well get excited regarding the sale of just about anything. It's all still fresh and new to them. In itself, not a bad thing. The main downside is that their more limited knowledge means fewer bases for comparison โ which is why they're more likely to make expensive purchases they later regret. However, there are other forum members here who've been around for some time and learnt from experience. They recognise styles copied from other artists, and tired ideas that have been rehashed ad nauseum. Many believe the endless monetisation of clichรฉd imagery is damaging to this so-called "community" you constantly refer to. It reflects poorly on each of us. Whether we like it or not, we get tarred by association with all the shรญt produced under the banner of urban art. In threads advertising releases of prints or originals, voices of dissent and caution serve as a healthy counterbalance. They encourage others to slow down a little and make more considered purchases โ rather than getting caught up in some collective online euphoria carefully fuelled by those with vested financial interests. To brush off all such posts as "attacks" may be convenient for you, since it reduces the need for critical thought. It is also myopic. And recklessly so, bearing in mind your position on the forum. Young guns who latch onto and try to ride the waves of graffiti or street art are aligning themselves with, and capitalising on, pre-established histories. That comes with a responsibility. And treating whole cultures as mere cash cows โ for example, by cynically hijacking the term "Graffiti" and incorporating it into the name of a business to sell some prints that have little (if anything) to do with graffiti โ is not fulfilling that responsibility. I consider it opportunistic and, quite often, parasitic. Rarely do I see these ventures pushing the cultures forward by innovating. For the most part, their output seems to be watered-down, diluted variations and decorative retail versions of what has already been done more capably by their predecessors. I usually applaud people who are proactive, who get off their seats and do something, rather than simply being spectators or consumers. But if their contributions amount to a regression, an insult to a rich cultural heritage, then my position changes. Again, you are of course free to support and promote whatever you want. If you wish to fly the flag of the art equivalents of Green Day or Good Charlotte, that's entirely your choice. As for myself, I've thrown in my lot with those who expect the best from the people trying to get us to part with our cash. Artists, dealers, print houses and publishers are the most visible ambassadors within the art scene. And when their actions or products are uninspired, unoriginal, or lazy and greedy, it's only fair they be challenged, if not criticised. Or even ostracised. Given that their current positions are in large part thanks to us, we โ and the graffiti and street art scenes more broadly โ deserve better from them than second-rate offerings. You appear to disregard negative posts as "bringing down our community", as if all critique stems from envy or pettiness. I call it a passionate attempt to safeguard much-loved cultures. I call it pushing, encouraging those cultures to grow and flourish, rather than flounder and succumb to fates of mediocrity brought upon by often-clueless arrivistes.
Soak up this post. Take the time to read it and understand it, learn something, thought,contemplation and critical analysis are vital
**** Assistant Moderator Alert **** Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post. Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless. If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need. I am completely dumbfounded by this thread as an active forum member and as a staff member. It's so bizarre that many people feel the need to attack a gallery for giving us a heads up on potential desirable releases and also attacking the artists that his gallery represents. Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community. There follows another essay for members to consider or dismiss according to their individual predilections. It will lack popularity, and that's okay. ------------------ I generally avoid referring to posts I consider misguided or moronic. But I'll make an exception with your "Alert" because its content and general tone of mild hysteria are more than just unhelpful. From my perspective, they're actually harmful to this forum. 1. "Some of the comments on this thread are completely irresponsible and baseless." What exactly were you referring to when reaching that conclusion and making that declaration? You've got my attention now. Which comments specifically? 2. "If you are going to publicly call out a forum member and accuse them of being a racist than please do so by PM if you feel the need."Is this for real? Presumably, it relates to the viewpoint expressed by Neate Michael. Did you even read it? If so, then either you failed to understand neatemichael's words, or for whatever reason you consciously distorted them. You've described other comments as being "completely irresponsible". In fact, it's the leap you made that was completely irresponsible โ taking a personal opinion expressed by a fellow forum member about one image, and then equating it to them accusing the artist of being a racist. Whether you did this by intention or by stupidity, shame on you. I've never had any communications with neatemichael. Nor do I agree with their opinion on this occasion, despite understanding where they're coming from. But I will state you owe them an apology. When having a go at someone in your official capacity of Ass Mod, you're acting on behalf of the whole forum. That comes with a minimum duty of making sure you at least get your facts right. kunstrasen himself has previously acknowledged his unfortunate defensiveness in response to critique of his work. No doubt he'd be among the first to admit his interests would be better served by growing a thicker skin. Yet even he immediately understood the crucial difference between (a) an individual's feelings of personal discomfort about a specific artwork, and (b) an attack on the character of the artist. Separately, these are the types of issues truly worth debating on the forum. With difficult subject matters, it's all the more important for exchanges of different ideas and opinions to take place openly. The suggestion that such discussions should be restricted to private messages is ridiculous. "Please take a moment and think what are the potential ramifications of the things you post." That's pretty sound advice you typed. Consider following it yourself. 3. "Let's try and support each other instead of bringing down our community."If you wish to support commercial releases of derivative artwork, that is your prerogative. Although not everyone shares your opinion. And the sooner this reality sinks into your head, the sooner you will cease to remain "completely dumbfounded". Inexperienced art enthusiasts and collectors may well get excited regarding the sale of just about anything. It's all still fresh and new to them. In itself, not a bad thing. The main downside is that their more limited knowledge means fewer bases for comparison โ which is why they're more likely to make expensive purchases they later regret. However, there are other forum members here who've been around for some time and learnt from experience. They recognise styles copied from other artists, and tired ideas that have been rehashed ad nauseum. Many believe the endless monetisation of clichรฉd imagery is damaging to this so-called "community" you constantly refer to. It reflects poorly on each of us. Whether we like it or not, we get tarred by association with all the shรญt produced under the banner of urban art. In threads advertising releases of prints or originals, voices of dissent and caution serve as a healthy counterbalance. They encourage others to slow down a little and make more considered purchases โ rather than getting caught up in some collective online euphoria carefully fuelled by those with vested financial interests. To brush off all such posts as "attacks" may be convenient for you, since it reduces the need for critical thought. It is also myopic. And recklessly so, bearing in mind your position on the forum. Young guns who latch onto and try to ride the waves of graffiti or street art are aligning themselves with, and capitalising on, pre-established histories. That comes with a responsibility. And treating whole cultures as mere cash cows โ for example, by cynically hijacking the term "Graffiti" and incorporating it into the name of a business to sell some prints that have little (if anything) to do with graffiti โ is not fulfilling that responsibility. I consider it opportunistic and, quite often, parasitic. Rarely do I see these ventures pushing the cultures forward by innovating. For the most part, their output seems to be watered-down, diluted variations and decorative retail versions of what has already been done more capably by their predecessors. I usually applaud people who are proactive, who get off their seats and do something, rather than simply being spectators or consumers. But if their contributions amount to a regression, an insult to a rich cultural heritage, then my position changes. Again, you are of course free to support and promote whatever you want. If you wish to fly the flag of the art equivalents of Green Day or Good Charlotte, that's entirely your choice. As for myself, I've thrown in my lot with those who expect the best from the people trying to get us to part with our cash. Artists, dealers, print houses and publishers are the most visible ambassadors within the art scene. And when their actions or products are uninspired, unoriginal, or lazy and greedy, it's only fair they be challenged, if not criticised. Or even ostracised. Given that their current positions are in large part thanks to us, we โ and the graffiti and street art scenes more broadly โ deserve better from them than second-rate offerings. You appear to disregard negative posts as "bringing down our community", as if all critique stems from envy or pettiness. I call it a passionate attempt to safeguard much-loved cultures. I call it pushing, encouraging those cultures to grow and flourish, rather than flounder and succumb to fates of mediocrity brought upon by often-clueless arrivistes. Soak up this post. Take the time to read it and understand it, learn something, thought,contemplation and critical analysis are vital
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 8:59:11 GMT 1, Many many valid and well put forward points met but I disagree with your opinion on the ''racist image'' issue.
I too disagree with the ''little bit racist'' statement made by Neate Michael but also respect his viewpoint but the minute a statement like that is made it is open to misinterpretation.
I know and you know, along with most members on this forum, that Neate Michael was not calling out kunstrasen for being a racist but rather commenting that, in his opnion, the image itself was the problem.
However, as soon as this statement is made on a public forum, not everyone will look at it in the same light as you or I and that's that problem for me. It only takes a couple of members or vistotors to the forum to view this statement in a different light and then there is a chance (however small) that a very decent forum member and promising artist is branded with the 'racist' tag.
Again, I respect the view of Neate Michael and know him to be a very pleasant guy through correspondance with him on this forum so this is not a dig at him.....just my thoughts, that's all.
Many many valid and well put forward points met but I disagree with your opinion on the ''racist image'' issue. I too disagree with the ''little bit racist'' statement made by Neate Michael but also respect his viewpoint but the minute a statement like that is made it is open to misinterpretation. I know and you know, along with most members on this forum, that Neate Michael was not calling out kunstrasen for being a racist but rather commenting that, in his opnion, the image itself was the problem. However, as soon as this statement is made on a public forum, not everyone will look at it in the same light as you or I and that's that problem for me. It only takes a couple of members or vistotors to the forum to view this statement in a different light and then there is a chance (however small) that a very decent forum member and promising artist is branded with the 'racist' tag. Again, I respect the view of Neate Michael and know him to be a very pleasant guy through correspondance with him on this forum so this is not a dig at him.....just my thoughts, that's all.
|
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 1, 2014 9:14:55 GMT 1, No one can live their life basing each comment they make on the perceived connotations taken from them by idiots unless of course one is an idiot to begin with
No one can live their life basing each comment they make on the perceived connotations taken from them by idiots unless of course one is an idiot to begin with
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 1:21:29 GMT 1, Young guns who latch onto and try to ride the waves of graffiti or street art are aligning themselves with, and capitalising on, pre-established histories. That comes with a responsibility. And treating whole cultures as mere cash cows โ for example, by cynically hijacking the term "Graffiti" and incorporating it into the name of a business to sell some prints that have little (if anything) to do with graffiti โ is not fulfilling that responsibility. I consider it opportunistic and, quite often, parasitic. Rarely do I see these ventures pushing the cultures forward by innovating. For the most part, their output seems to be watered-down, diluted variations and decorative retail versions of what has already been done more capably by their predecessors. I usually applaud people who are proactive, who get off their seats and do something, rather than simply being spectators or consumers. But if their contributions amount to a regression, an insult to a rich cultural heritage, then my position changes. Very good post, Met.
Apologies for the edit, but the above part puts me in mind of Banksy's comment towards the end of Exit Through The Gift Shop
"I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art;
I don't do that so much anymore".
Young guns who latch onto and try to ride the waves of graffiti or street art are aligning themselves with, and capitalising on, pre-established histories. That comes with a responsibility. And treating whole cultures as mere cash cows โ for example, by cynically hijacking the term "Graffiti" and incorporating it into the name of a business to sell some prints that have little (if anything) to do with graffiti โ is not fulfilling that responsibility. I consider it opportunistic and, quite often, parasitic. Rarely do I see these ventures pushing the cultures forward by innovating. For the most part, their output seems to be watered-down, diluted variations and decorative retail versions of what has already been done more capably by their predecessors. I usually applaud people who are proactive, who get off their seats and do something, rather than simply being spectators or consumers. But if their contributions amount to a regression, an insult to a rich cultural heritage, then my position changes. Very good post, Met. Apologies for the edit, but the above part puts me in mind of Banksy's comment towards the end of Exit Through The Gift Shop "I used to encourage everyone I knew to make art; I don't do that so much anymore".
|
|
samfrost
New Member
Posts โข 783
Likes โข 526
June 2014
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by samfrost on Dec 3, 2014 5:22:10 GMT 1, Post of the year award nominee for met. Bravo sir, A+++ points in your earlier post. The continual cheerleading of derivative artists is all too often drowning out legitimate critiscism.
Post of the year award nominee for met. Bravo sir, A+++ points in your earlier post. The continual cheerleading of derivative artists is all too often drowning out legitimate critiscism.
|
|
Neate Michael
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,008
Likes โข 321
September 2007
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Neate Michael on Dec 3, 2014 9:11:09 GMT 1, Hi everyone
I have been away for a few days, and not realised what a stink I made.
Thank you to the board members who read my original posts, and understood that I was not calling anyone a racist.
As I have previously said, the fault is with me, and I probably should not be using Tom and Jerry for historical reference.
If I could take back the original post I would. It was stupid and thoughtless to post it, and whilst it was a comment on the image, not the artist, I see why it was easily misinterpreted and I regret that.
So apologies once again, particularly to the artist, but also to anyone else who took offence.
Cheers
Michael
Hi everyone
I have been away for a few days, and not realised what a stink I made.
Thank you to the board members who read my original posts, and understood that I was not calling anyone a racist.
As I have previously said, the fault is with me, and I probably should not be using Tom and Jerry for historical reference.
If I could take back the original post I would. It was stupid and thoughtless to post it, and whilst it was a comment on the image, not the artist, I see why it was easily misinterpreted and I regret that.
So apologies once again, particularly to the artist, but also to anyone else who took offence.
Cheers
Michael
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 13:57:29 GMT 1, New works added for tomorrow's releases on GP. Good stuff from Kunstrasen and ABC, amongst others
graffitiprints.bigcartel.com/products
|
|
berlin20
New Member
Posts โข 331
Likes โข 217
April 2014
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by berlin20 on Dec 3, 2014 14:03:19 GMT 1, Thanks for the update.
|
|
Sweetcorn
New Member
Posts โข 984
Likes โข 487
January 2013
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Sweetcorn on Dec 3, 2014 14:16:04 GMT 1, Complete Jago rip off by abc
Complete Jago rip off by abc
|
|
tigerblood
New Member
Posts โข 790
Likes โข 939
August 2011
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by tigerblood on Dec 4, 2014 16:14:38 GMT 1, Dammit, I really wanted the kunstrasen One for All canvas!! Was gone immediately
Dammit, I really wanted the kunstrasen One for All canvas!! Was gone immediately
|
|
|
mawge
New Member
Posts โข 910
Likes โข 181
March 2013
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by mawge on Dec 4, 2014 16:19:22 GMT 1, Kunstrasen pieces were carted soooooooooo quick
Kunstrasen pieces were carted soooooooooo quick
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 16:19:53 GMT 1, Dammit, I really wanted the kunstrasen One for All canvas!! Was gone immediately Went for one of those too and was lucky enough to get one. Still not marked as sold out so keep trying.
Dammit, I really wanted the kunstrasen One for All canvas!! Was gone immediately Went for one of those too and was lucky enough to get one. Still not marked as sold out so keep trying.
|
|
Matt
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,349
Likes โข 3,437
September 2014
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Matt on Dec 4, 2014 16:25:19 GMT 1, Tha's the spot remover gone. Well done kunstrasen
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 16:26:20 GMT 1, Some Whatson Climbers back up as well
Some Whatson Climbers back up as well
|
|
roll
New Member
Posts โข 12
Likes โข 4
September 2014
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by roll on Dec 4, 2014 16:36:44 GMT 1, Got me a spot remover,my first kunstrasen.
Got me a spot remover,my first kunstrasen.
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 16:45:56 GMT 1, Was people reffering to Kunstrasens picture of the woman with her back to the viewer cleaning off the spots?
I don't see how an artwork or painting should be censored or banned because it depicts a black white green or any other colour person doing some cleaning work.
We are allready heading down a dangerous road with political correctness and censorship laws in Sweden imposed by marxist socialists who have created one law for some people and another law for others.
This forum does tend to be afanclub and some artists are glorified while others are attacked for the same thing.
Street and urban art is looking very shallow these days and losing it's edge and honesty and people only like the things that flip well and the so called popular names instead of thinking for themselves.
Was people reffering to Kunstrasens picture of the woman with her back to the viewer cleaning off the spots?
I don't see how an artwork or painting should be censored or banned because it depicts a black white green or any other colour person doing some cleaning work.
We are allready heading down a dangerous road with political correctness and censorship laws in Sweden imposed by marxist socialists who have created one law for some people and another law for others.
This forum does tend to be afanclub and some artists are glorified while others are attacked for the same thing.
Street and urban art is looking very shallow these days and losing it's edge and honesty and people only like the things that flip well and the so called popular names instead of thinking for themselves.
|
|
graffuturism
New Member
Posts โข 754
Likes โข 771
March 2010
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by graffuturism on Dec 4, 2014 16:46:09 GMT 1, Post of the year award nominee for met. Bravo sir, A+++ points in your earlier post. The continual cheerleading of derivative artists is all too often drowning out legitimate critiscism. Seconded, Great post even if upon mostly deaf ears.
Post of the year award nominee for met. Bravo sir, A+++ points in your earlier post. The continual cheerleading of derivative artists is all too often drowning out legitimate critiscism. Seconded, Great post even if upon mostly deaf ears.
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Deleted on Dec 4, 2014 17:09:28 GMT 1, Nothing wrong with derivative if it's done in an original way and identifiable to the artist.
After all Picasso wasnt the only guy who panted cubist and wonky face cartoony style and people who like streetism style stencil type spraycan tinnie art who cant afford a Banksy original feel happy buying a less expensive streety stencil piece by a less expensive artist.
Nothing wrong with derivative if it's done in an original way and identifiable to the artist.
After all Picasso wasnt the only guy who panted cubist and wonky face cartoony style and people who like streetism style stencil type spraycan tinnie art who cant afford a Banksy original feel happy buying a less expensive streety stencil piece by a less expensive artist.
|
|
|
duggyfresh
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,364
Likes โข 1,042
February 2013
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by duggyfresh on Dec 4, 2014 17:11:26 GMT 1, Got me a spot remover,my first kunstrasen. [br
Me too, its also my first canvas, plus no framing costs either, all good!!!
Got me a spot remover,my first kunstrasen. [br Me too, its also my first canvas, plus no framing costs either, all good!!!
|
|
cerulean
New Member
Posts โข 276
Likes โข 177
July 2014
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by cerulean on Dec 4, 2014 23:42:38 GMT 1, I was really hoping to get a Spot Remover. Had to choose between U2 ticket onsale & art drop at the same time....... ah, decisions decisions.....wished I'd gone for the canvas. Probably would have had a better shot. Congrats to those who scored one. Really like how Kunstrasen's work is evolving!!!
I was really hoping to get a Spot Remover. Had to choose between U2 ticket onsale & art drop at the same time....... ah, decisions decisions.....wished I'd gone for the canvas. Probably would have had a better shot. Congrats to those who scored one. Really like how Kunstrasen's work is evolving!!!
|
|
Graffiti Prints
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,239
Likes โข 2,129
December 2006
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by Graffiti Prints on Dec 9, 2014 19:14:26 GMT 1, Virtually all tubes sent out and tracking should follow in a day or so.
Spot removers and other canvases go tomorrow usual fast service via ups or DHL!
I kept a spot remover it looks great next to the Beejoir Imodium 70 in the studio!
Virtually all tubes sent out and tracking should follow in a day or so.
Spot removers and other canvases go tomorrow usual fast service via ups or DHL!
I kept a spot remover it looks great next to the Beejoir Imodium 70 in the studio!
|
|
dashboll
New Member
Posts โข 973
Likes โข 1,037
January 2013
|
Graffiti Prints Release this week, by dashboll on Dec 9, 2014 19:25:10 GMT 1, Loving ABC's print great price too but spent too much now
Loving ABC's print great price too but spent too much now
|
|