Howard Johnson
New Member
Posts โข 924
Likes โข 1,617
September 2014
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Howard Johnson on Apr 20, 2016 20:56:21 GMT 1, I have a question for those versed in collecting contemporary art. I collected signed Ephemera from the major pop artists (Haring, Lichtenstein, and Warhol) and I'm looking for a good authentication option for the pieces and signatures.
It seems like the available options are local galleries, PSA/DNA, and large authentication services such as ArtExperts. Does anyone know what the preffered method of authentication is for the contemporary market? I.e. if I submitted a PSA/DNA piece to a major auction house would they not find that was a valid form of authentication? Finally, because the authentication boards for these artists no longer exist, how in the hell do you go about authenticating signed/numbered pieces? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I have a question for those versed in collecting contemporary art. I collected signed Ephemera from the major pop artists (Haring, Lichtenstein, and Warhol) and I'm looking for a good authentication option for the pieces and signatures.
It seems like the available options are local galleries, PSA/DNA, and large authentication services such as ArtExperts. Does anyone know what the preffered method of authentication is for the contemporary market? I.e. if I submitted a PSA/DNA piece to a major auction house would they not find that was a valid form of authentication? Finally, because the authentication boards for these artists no longer exist, how in the hell do you go about authenticating signed/numbered pieces? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
|
|
Deleted
Posts โข 0
Likes โข
January 1970
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 21:33:23 GMT 1, If it is to do with important artists then it's all about provenance for auction houses to be happy. Where and how you acquired the pieces and stuff like that.
Authentication services can be money down the drain as it depends on what you want to do with the pieces and also if the auction house recognises their expertise for a particular artist.
If it is to do with important artists then it's all about provenance for auction houses to be happy. Where and how you acquired the pieces and stuff like that.
Authentication services can be money down the drain as it depends on what you want to do with the pieces and also if the auction house recognises their expertise for a particular artist.
|
|
Howard Johnson
New Member
Posts โข 924
Likes โข 1,617
September 2014
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Howard Johnson on Apr 20, 2016 21:37:23 GMT 1, If it is to do with important artists then it's all about provenance for auction houses to be happy. Where and how you acquired the pieces and stuff like that. Authentication services can be money down the drain as it depends on what you want to do with the pieces and also if the auction house recognises their expertise for a particular artist. Its more for my piece of mind as a collector. But the services aren't cheap so I'd like to use ones that are recognized in the market so that if/when I do decide to sell the pieces I won't have to get them reevaluated.
If it is to do with important artists then it's all about provenance for auction houses to be happy. Where and how you acquired the pieces and stuff like that. Authentication services can be money down the drain as it depends on what you want to do with the pieces and also if the auction house recognises their expertise for a particular artist. Its more for my piece of mind as a collector. But the services aren't cheap so I'd like to use ones that are recognized in the market so that if/when I do decide to sell the pieces I won't have to get them reevaluated.
|
|
kinesis
New Member
Posts โข 43
Likes โข 9
June 2015
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by kinesis on Apr 20, 2016 23:17:30 GMT 1, All I know is that PSA has a bad name, there was some shady stuff going on there.
All I know is that PSA has a bad name, there was some shady stuff going on there.
|
|
NYart
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,221
Likes โข 843
January 2016
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by NYart on Apr 21, 2016 0:33:15 GMT 1, All I know is that PSA has a bad name, there was some shady stuff going on there.
PSA? Really? When'd that happen
All I know is that PSA has a bad name, there was some shady stuff going on there. PSA? Really? When'd that happen
|
|
darkcity
New Member
Posts โข 123
Likes โข 58
February 2016
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by darkcity on Apr 21, 2016 8:29:59 GMT 1, Chros, ephemera is difficult i had a haring piece before the board dissapeted and they sent back a veru kind letter stating they can not or will not autheticatw anything that is ephemera or not meant to last or be more then a keep sake or sevoineir etc... Its going to be tricky becuase the piece i have is the haring merry go round from the german thene park where not many survived due to a fire, many galleries sell them unsigned fkr about $500-1000 and sell them signed fkr around 5k so with that said it is more about provenance and autheticating its back story as most wont authticate ephemera in and of itself.
But goodluck just ask the right questions with whomever you deal with and try to document any responses you receive.
Chros, ephemera is difficult i had a haring piece before the board dissapeted and they sent back a veru kind letter stating they can not or will not autheticatw anything that is ephemera or not meant to last or be more then a keep sake or sevoineir etc... Its going to be tricky becuase the piece i have is the haring merry go round from the german thene park where not many survived due to a fire, many galleries sell them unsigned fkr about $500-1000 and sell them signed fkr around 5k so with that said it is more about provenance and autheticating its back story as most wont authticate ephemera in and of itself.
But goodluck just ask the right questions with whomever you deal with and try to document any responses you receive.
|
|
|
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Happy Shopper on Apr 21, 2016 9:07:52 GMT 1, If you think about it logically there's no way an official authentication body can give a letter or certificate to anything that can be duplicated. They can only do originals or numbered prints that they can catalogue.
Anyone can fake a signature so you just have to be sure of the history of the piece.
If you think about it logically there's no way an official authentication body can give a letter or certificate to anything that can be duplicated. They can only do originals or numbered prints that they can catalogue.
Anyone can fake a signature so you just have to be sure of the history of the piece.
|
|
kinesis
New Member
Posts โข 43
Likes โข 9
June 2015
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by kinesis on Apr 21, 2016 10:25:14 GMT 1, All I know is that PSA has a bad name, there was some shady stuff going on there. PSA? Really? When'd that happen It happened during the peak baseball card collecting era in the usa. They were not trusted after a few years.
All I know is that PSA has a bad name, there was some shady stuff going on there. PSA? Really? When'd that happen It happened during the peak baseball card collecting era in the usa. They were not trusted after a few years.
|
|
Goooogle Male
New Member
Posts โข 728
Likes โข 247
December 2010
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Goooogle Male on Apr 21, 2016 13:03:33 GMT 1, I have a question for those versed in collecting contemporary art. I collected signed Ephemera from the major pop artists (Haring, Lichtenstein, and Warhol) and I'm looking for a good authentication option for the pieces and signatures.
Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but if you are looking to authenticate pieces you already own, what was it that convinced you to purchase them in the first place? If they had rock solid, well researched provenance/paper trail etc that was enough to get you to part with your money in the first place, then that will be enough for an auction house or gallery to accept as well. If however, you just took someone's word for it, or purchased items with weak provenance and/or no authentication then how do you expect a other third party to be able to 'authenticate' these items with any degree of certainty?
IMO all the background research should have been done before you purchased the pieces (and at the seller's cost!), not by you, the purchaser in hindsight.
The reality is that anything Haring/Warhol/Lichtenstein etc that wasn't approved by their boards when they were still functioning (or comes with rock solid proof aka contemporary gallery receipt/photo of them signing the specific piece etc) are very unlikely to ever be retrospectively authenticated by a third party to a level that a serious collector, gallery or auction house would trust.
I have a question for those versed in collecting contemporary art. I collected signed Ephemera from the major pop artists (Haring, Lichtenstein, and Warhol) and I'm looking for a good authentication option for the pieces and signatures. Forgive me if I've misunderstood, but if you are looking to authenticate pieces you already own, what was it that convinced you to purchase them in the first place? If they had rock solid, well researched provenance/paper trail etc that was enough to get you to part with your money in the first place, then that will be enough for an auction house or gallery to accept as well. If however, you just took someone's word for it, or purchased items with weak provenance and/or no authentication then how do you expect a other third party to be able to 'authenticate' these items with any degree of certainty? IMO all the background research should have been done before you purchased the pieces (and at the seller's cost!), not by you, the purchaser in hindsight. The reality is that anything Haring/Warhol/Lichtenstein etc that wasn't approved by their boards when they were still functioning (or comes with rock solid proof aka contemporary gallery receipt/photo of them signing the specific piece etc) are very unlikely to ever be retrospectively authenticated by a third party to a level that a serious collector, gallery or auction house would trust.
|
|
Howard Johnson
New Member
Posts โข 924
Likes โข 1,617
September 2014
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Howard Johnson on Apr 21, 2016 16:22:51 GMT 1, Thanks for that super helpful post goooglemate. I'd love to know the intense research procedure You do when purchasing a poster or other signed item? Of course I buy pieces from reputable galleries and auction houses whenever possible, but very few of them deal in ephemera.
Thanks for that super helpful post goooglemate. I'd love to know the intense research procedure You do when purchasing a poster or other signed item? Of course I buy pieces from reputable galleries and auction houses whenever possible, but very few of them deal in ephemera.
|
|
Goooogle Male
New Member
Posts โข 728
Likes โข 247
December 2010
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Goooogle Male on Apr 21, 2016 20:01:49 GMT 1, Thanks for that super helpful post goooglemate. I'd love to know the intense research procedure You do when purchasing a poster or other signed item? Of course I buy pieces from reputable galleries and auction houses whenever possible, but very few of them deal in ephemera.
I'm not quite sure I get what you mean Christopher.
I have spent tens of thousands of pounds of money on art/ephemera/rare records etc over 15+ years, and would never part with any money for any art or collectable unless I was completely satisfied of its authenticity. That would mean rock solid Prov and/or formal authentication certificate (pest control or what have you). Whether it is a signed/numbered print, a piece of ephemera (which covers a very wide church indeed and is by its very nature the easiest category to fake or reproduce) or an OG canvas is quite frankly irrelevant.
As far as I can tell you have been paying money for items that have no authentication whatsoever, and now you are hoping that someone is going to retrospectively confirm for you that these are genuine signatures / pieces. If your items have no provenance or prior authentication, how can you expect anyone else to believe what is, in art world terms, nothing more than just your story.
Unfortunately You have no way of knowing (and more importantly, proving) whether the seller has pulled a fast one on you, or not. Your stuff may well be real but unless you can actively prove it, it will not be considered so. Signatures can be forged absolutely perfectly, so just 'looking legit' is meaningless.
I know it isn't what you want to hear, but the reality is you have bought items on someone else's say-so that they are genuine, without conducting the due diligence required before parting with your money.
The only hope you have is to persuade another buyer to purchase your items from you with as little proof of authenticity or as you yourself required. I wish you well with that.
Thanks for that super helpful post goooglemate. I'd love to know the intense research procedure You do when purchasing a poster or other signed item? Of course I buy pieces from reputable galleries and auction houses whenever possible, but very few of them deal in ephemera. I'm not quite sure I get what you mean Christopher. I have spent tens of thousands of pounds of money on art/ephemera/rare records etc over 15+ years, and would never part with any money for any art or collectable unless I was completely satisfied of its authenticity. That would mean rock solid Prov and/or formal authentication certificate (pest control or what have you). Whether it is a signed/numbered print, a piece of ephemera (which covers a very wide church indeed and is by its very nature the easiest category to fake or reproduce) or an OG canvas is quite frankly irrelevant. As far as I can tell you have been paying money for items that have no authentication whatsoever, and now you are hoping that someone is going to retrospectively confirm for you that these are genuine signatures / pieces. If your items have no provenance or prior authentication, how can you expect anyone else to believe what is, in art world terms, nothing more than just your story. Unfortunately You have no way of knowing (and more importantly, proving) whether the seller has pulled a fast one on you, or not. Your stuff may well be real but unless you can actively prove it, it will not be considered so. Signatures can be forged absolutely perfectly, so just 'looking legit' is meaningless. I know it isn't what you want to hear, but the reality is you have bought items on someone else's say-so that they are genuine, without conducting the due diligence required before parting with your money. The only hope you have is to persuade another buyer to purchase your items from you with as little proof of authenticity or as you yourself required. I wish you well with that.
|
|
Howard Johnson
New Member
Posts โข 924
Likes โข 1,617
September 2014
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Howard Johnson on Apr 22, 2016 3:53:54 GMT 1, I'm not quite sure I get what you mean Christopher. I have spent tens of thousands of pounds of money on art/ephemera/rare records etc over 15+ years, and would never part with any money for any art or collectable unless I was completely satisfied of its authenticity. That would mean rock solid Prov and/or formal authentication certificate (pest control or what have you). Whether it is a signed/numbered print, a piece of ephemera (which covers a very wide church indeed and is by its very nature the easiest category to fake or reproduce) or an OG canvas is quite frankly irrelevant. As far as I can tell you have been paying money for items that have no authentication whatsoever, and now you are hoping that someone is going to retrospectively confirm for you that these are genuine signatures / pieces. If your items have no provenance or prior authentication, how can you expect anyone else to believe what is, in art world terms, nothing more than just your story.
Comments like "you have been paying money for items that have no authentication whatsoever" are unhelpful, rude, and not to mention disparaging. I'm surprised to hear you have such an intimate knowledge of my collection, considering were separated by the Atlantic Ocean. Ok, so you have spent thousands on ephemera, all of which either has a formal authentication certificate or rock solid provenance. Which artists provide COAs for ephemera? Which galleries/auction houses offer owner-by-owner provenance on posters created in the 60s/70s/80s? To my knowledge there are none.
Thank you to everyone who reached out offering helpful advice, 90% of the members on here are amazing.
I'm not quite sure I get what you mean Christopher. I have spent tens of thousands of pounds of money on art/ephemera/rare records etc over 15+ years, and would never part with any money for any art or collectable unless I was completely satisfied of its authenticity. That would mean rock solid Prov and/or formal authentication certificate (pest control or what have you). Whether it is a signed/numbered print, a piece of ephemera (which covers a very wide church indeed and is by its very nature the easiest category to fake or reproduce) or an OG canvas is quite frankly irrelevant. As far as I can tell you have been paying money for items that have no authentication whatsoever, and now you are hoping that someone is going to retrospectively confirm for you that these are genuine signatures / pieces. If your items have no provenance or prior authentication, how can you expect anyone else to believe what is, in art world terms, nothing more than just your story. Comments like "you have been paying money for items that have no authentication whatsoever" are unhelpful, rude, and not to mention disparaging. I'm surprised to hear you have such an intimate knowledge of my collection, considering were separated by the Atlantic Ocean. Ok, so you have spent thousands on ephemera, all of which either has a formal authentication certificate or rock solid provenance. Which artists provide COAs for ephemera? Which galleries/auction houses offer owner-by-owner provenance on posters created in the 60s/70s/80s? To my knowledge there are none. Thank you to everyone who reached out offering helpful advice, 90% of the members on here are amazing.
|
|
Goooogle Male
New Member
Posts โข 728
Likes โข 247
December 2010
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Goooogle Male on Apr 22, 2016 9:59:56 GMT 1, I'm surprised to hear you have such an intimate knowledge of my collection, considering were separated by the Atlantic Ocean
Dude. You original post states:
I collected signed Ephemera from the major pop artists (Haring, Lichtenstein, and Warhol) and I'm looking for a good authentication option for the pieces and signatures.
That's how I know what your collection is! And whether or not you like it, I can only repeat. If you bought items signed by major pop art names who's artwork is regularly, - nay, routinely - forged, and you purchased those items without confirming any provenance or authenticity before parting with your money then there is little to no chance that you will ever be able to authenticate them as genuine going forwards. Just accept it and move on.
I'm surprised to hear you have such an intimate knowledge of my collection, considering were separated by the Atlantic Ocean Dude. You original post states: I collected signed Ephemera from the major pop artists (Haring, Lichtenstein, and Warhol) and I'm looking for a good authentication option for the pieces and signatures. That's how I know what your collection is! And whether or not you like it, I can only repeat. If you bought items signed by major pop art names who's artwork is regularly, - nay, routinely - forged, and you purchased those items without confirming any provenance or authenticity before parting with your money then there is little to no chance that you will ever be able to authenticate them as genuine going forwards. Just accept it and move on.
|
|
darkcity
New Member
Posts โข 123
Likes โข 58
February 2016
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by darkcity on Apr 22, 2016 10:24:21 GMT 1, I'm surprised to hear you have such an intimate knowledge of my collection, considering were separated by the Atlantic Ocean Dude. You original post states: I collected signed Ephemera from the major pop artists (Haring, Lichtenstein, and Warhol) and I'm looking for a good authentication option for the pieces and signatures. That's how I know what your collection is! And whether or not you like it, I can only repeat. If you bought items signed by major pop art names who's artwork is regularly, - nay, routinely - forged, and you purchased those items without confirming any provenance or authenticity before parting with your money then there is little to no chance that you will ever be able to authenticate them as genuine going forwards. Just accept it and move on.
Googlemale i think the main paint of the question is the "ephemera" part not doing his due diligence, ephenerma where items that were not made to last or not made to be hard collectibles, maybe a bag from popshop the haring signed or an adertisment designed by warhol but signed by him etc.. The issue is these things ar commonky bought sold and traded although there was no intention for them o ever be more then a giveaway, a keepsake, a temporary piece in time representing the artists work so authentication and it being a real signature are two different things.
I'm surprised to hear you have such an intimate knowledge of my collection, considering were separated by the Atlantic Ocean Dude. You original post states: I collected signed Ephemera from the major pop artists (Haring, Lichtenstein, and Warhol) and I'm looking for a good authentication option for the pieces and signatures. That's how I know what your collection is! And whether or not you like it, I can only repeat. If you bought items signed by major pop art names who's artwork is regularly, - nay, routinely - forged, and you purchased those items without confirming any provenance or authenticity before parting with your money then there is little to no chance that you will ever be able to authenticate them as genuine going forwards. Just accept it and move on. Googlemale i think the main paint of the question is the "ephemera" part not doing his due diligence, ephenerma where items that were not made to last or not made to be hard collectibles, maybe a bag from popshop the haring signed or an adertisment designed by warhol but signed by him etc.. The issue is these things ar commonky bought sold and traded although there was no intention for them o ever be more then a giveaway, a keepsake, a temporary piece in time representing the artists work so authentication and it being a real signature are two different things.
|
|
|
Howard Johnson
New Member
Posts โข 924
Likes โข 1,617
September 2014
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Howard Johnson on Apr 22, 2016 14:56:04 GMT 1, Goooogle Male, but the point is that you DONT know about the authenticity/provenance of the woks in my collection. Please do not come onto my friendly thread insult my intelligence by making claims about doing due diligence, and then go on to question the authenticity of my collection. Thats defamatory and uncalled for. I don't go on your sales threads and question every piece of art for sale without a COA, which looking back through your threads there are many.
OF COURSE I only by things with solid provenance, but even if I got a signed poster from Warhol himself I'd want an independent COA for the benefit of any other purchasers. I don't know why thats such a far out proposition for you.
Sorry to keep bumping this lame back and forth, I just feel the need to defend myself and my collection. I will only respond via PM for now as to not clog up the recent threads.
Goooogle Male, but the point is that you DONT know about the authenticity/provenance of the woks in my collection. Please do not come onto my friendly thread insult my intelligence by making claims about doing due diligence, and then go on to question the authenticity of my collection. Thats defamatory and uncalled for. I don't go on your sales threads and question every piece of art for sale without a COA, which looking back through your threads there are many. OF COURSE I only by things with solid provenance, but even if I got a signed poster from Warhol himself I'd want an independent COA for the benefit of any other purchasers. I don't know why thats such a far out proposition for you. Sorry to keep bumping this lame back and forth, I just feel the need to defend myself and my collection. I will only respond via PM for now as to not clog up the recent threads.
|
|
|
How Do You Get Your Signed Ephemera Authenticated?, by Happy Shopper on Apr 22, 2016 15:19:15 GMT 1, Goooogle Male , but the point is that you DONT know about the authenticity/provenance of the woks in my collection. Please do not come onto my friendly thread insult my intelligence by making claims about doing due diligence, and then go on to question the authenticity of my collection. Thats defamatory and uncalled for. I don't go on your sales threads and question every piece of art for sale without a COA, which looking back through your threads there are many. OF COURSE I only by things with solid provenance, but even if I got a signed poster from Warhol himself I'd want an independent COA for the benefit of any other purchasers. I don't know why thats such a far out proposition for you. Sorry to keep bumping this lame back and forth, I just feel the need to defend myself and my collection. I will only respond via PM for now as to not clog up the recent threads. Haha. You ask for opinion and then don't like the answer!?
If you did your due diligence on pieces you've bought, then that's equally all the evidence a future buyer would need. What you're asking for doesn't exist, so there you go...
Goooogle Male , but the point is that you DONT know about the authenticity/provenance of the woks in my collection. Please do not come onto my friendly thread insult my intelligence by making claims about doing due diligence, and then go on to question the authenticity of my collection. Thats defamatory and uncalled for. I don't go on your sales threads and question every piece of art for sale without a COA, which looking back through your threads there are many. OF COURSE I only by things with solid provenance, but even if I got a signed poster from Warhol himself I'd want an independent COA for the benefit of any other purchasers. I don't know why thats such a far out proposition for you. Sorry to keep bumping this lame back and forth, I just feel the need to defend myself and my collection. I will only respond via PM for now as to not clog up the recent threads. Haha. You ask for opinion and then don't like the answer!? If you did your due diligence on pieces you've bought, then that's equally all the evidence a future buyer would need. What you're asking for doesn't exist, so there you go...
|
|