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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Ghoul Bones Jones on Apr 11, 2022 22:18:16 GMT 1, Hi All - I'm looking to sell a print by Roby Dwi Antono as I need to free up some cash for personal reasons. I was lucky enough to get my hands on an AP version of the print, as opposed to a print from the main edition. How do you guys go about quantifying the increased value of having an AP? Is there some basic formula or rule of thumb? Unfortunately I don't have any prior sales information (of artist's proofs of the same print) to base this on. Any insight is very much appreciated as I also have various APs of other artists as well!
Hi All - I'm looking to sell a print by Roby Dwi Antono as I need to free up some cash for personal reasons. I was lucky enough to get my hands on an AP version of the print, as opposed to a print from the main edition. How do you guys go about quantifying the increased value of having an AP? Is there some basic formula or rule of thumb? Unfortunately I don't have any prior sales information (of artist's proofs of the same print) to base this on. Any insight is very much appreciated as I also have various APs of other artists as well!
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Black Wolf
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October 2020
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Black Wolf on Apr 11, 2022 22:31:12 GMT 1, Epic fight? If so one is listed on a Facebook group for 2.8k usd
Epic fight? If so one is listed on a Facebook group for 2.8k usd
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J0NNY
Junior Member
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December 2014
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by J0NNY on Apr 11, 2022 22:45:21 GMT 1, If the AP is the same as the main edition itโs pretty much worth the same. Some artist price higher at primary though but doesnโt usually matter on the secondary
If the AP is the same as the main edition itโs pretty much worth the same. Some artist price higher at primary though but doesnโt usually matter on the secondary
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Ghoul Bones Jones on Apr 12, 2022 2:49:43 GMT 1, Hi All - I'm looking to sell a print by Roby Dwi Antono as I need to free up some cash for personal reasons. I was lucky enough to get my hands on an AP version of the print, as opposed to a print from the main edition. How do you guys go about quantifying the increased value of having an AP? Is there some basic formula or rule of thumb? Unfortunately I don't have any prior sales information (of artist's proofs of the same print) to base this on. Any insight is very much appreciated as I also have various APs of other artists as well! You do know they just sell APs to gullible twats who missed out on the main edition. It's the same print. You got ripped off. You're not lucky. You've been had.
Hi All - I'm looking to sell a print by Roby Dwi Antono as I need to free up some cash for personal reasons. I was lucky enough to get my hands on an AP version of the print, as opposed to a print from the main edition. How do you guys go about quantifying the increased value of having an AP? Is there some basic formula or rule of thumb? Unfortunately I don't have any prior sales information (of artist's proofs of the same print) to base this on. Any insight is very much appreciated as I also have various APs of other artists as well! You do know they just sell APs to gullible twats who missed out on the main edition. It's the same print. You got ripped off. You're not lucky. You've been had. My understanding is that APs are generally more sought after but I welcome differing opinions. Cheers |
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Adam The Collector on Apr 12, 2022 3:02:41 GMT 1, Blue chip artists, AP's are going to carry a premium. All other artists, AP's are worth no more, they will just be the first to get purchased over the regular editioned examples.
Blue chip artists, AP's are going to carry a premium. All other artists, AP's are worth no more, they will just be the first to get purchased over the regular editioned examples.
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stavi
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September 2017
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by stavi on Apr 12, 2022 4:42:54 GMT 1, I would actually prefer to have a normal numbered version of a print. Part of the main run.
AP and PP always seemed like quite the loop hole. Who knows how many they printed and or if they will print more when they need.
I would actually prefer to have a normal numbered version of a print. Part of the main run.
AP and PP always seemed like quite the loop hole. Who knows how many they printed and or if they will print more when they need.
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dullahmo
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January 2022
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by dullahmo on Apr 12, 2022 8:39:43 GMT 1, AP and PP were the go to back in the good ol` times when printer quality wasn`t the best. Back then, the ink would start to fade so there would be a noticeable difference between the first print and the last. So they used to sell AP and PP at a premium as they were the first prints fresh off the press.
Nowadays, there`s no quality difference. As someone rightly mentioned above, if its a blue chip artist then it will make a difference. If it`s a more up and coming / emerging artist, it won`t really make any difference on the secondary market unless it`s specifically got hand embellishments or something special like that.
That`s just my unprofessional 2cents though.
AP and PP were the go to back in the good ol` times when printer quality wasn`t the best. Back then, the ink would start to fade so there would be a noticeable difference between the first print and the last. So they used to sell AP and PP at a premium as they were the first prints fresh off the press.
Nowadays, there`s no quality difference. As someone rightly mentioned above, if its a blue chip artist then it will make a difference. If it`s a more up and coming / emerging artist, it won`t really make any difference on the secondary market unless it`s specifically got hand embellishments or something special like that.
That`s just my unprofessional 2cents though.
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Leo Boyd
Artist
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June 2016
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Leo Boyd on Apr 12, 2022 8:46:28 GMT 1, This is quite an enjoyable read about editioned prints and it says about artists proofs
Are Artist Proof Prints More Valuable than Numbered Ones?
For those who really read this article until this chapter, the answer should be clear. Of course, not. However you can read the contrary in dozens on the Internet like "being sold with a premium" or "being priced slightly higher" and "due to the better quality" or "due to the limited number". Remember, knowledgeable collectors of Japanese prints will always prefer a numbered copy to a copy marked as AP.
From here
www.artelino.com/articles/what-is-an-artist-proof.asp#:~:text=The%20term%20artist%20proof%20is,d'artiste%20(French).
This is quite an enjoyable read about editioned prints and it says about artists proofs Are Artist Proof Prints More Valuable than Numbered Ones? For those who really read this article until this chapter, the answer should be clear. Of course, not. However you can read the contrary in dozens on the Internet like "being sold with a premium" or "being priced slightly higher" and "due to the better quality" or "due to the limited number". Remember, knowledgeable collectors of Japanese prints will always prefer a numbered copy to a copy marked as AP. From here www.artelino.com/articles/what-is-an-artist-proof.asp#:~:text=The%20term%20artist%20proof%20is,d'artiste%20(French). |
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STP
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February 2022
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by STP on Apr 12, 2022 10:45:32 GMT 1, I would actually prefer to have a normal numbered version of a print. Part of the main run. AP and PP always seemed like quite the loop hole. Who knows how many they printed and or if they will print more when they need. AP's and PP's should always be numbered and editioned.
It's only shitehawk galleries and artists who pump out unnumbered uneditioned prints on demand after the main edition has sold out.
I would actually prefer to have a normal numbered version of a print. Part of the main run. AP and PP always seemed like quite the loop hole. Who knows how many they printed and or if they will print more when they need. AP's and PP's should always be numbered and editioned.
It's only shitehawk galleries and artists who pump out unnumbered uneditioned prints on demand after the main edition has sold out.
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sandinista
New Member
Posts โข 569
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April 2020
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by sandinista on Apr 12, 2022 13:00:36 GMT 1, AP's are just extra copies either intentionally for replacing issues, gifts or by mis judgement. If you want to print an edition of 50 you will print more as you can have issues on every layer. so a 6 layer print you could have issues on each layer. The pro's will likely have less. So should be no difference in quality or price, But yes they should be numbered.
PP is a printers proof so it could be a test colour or slightly different from edition. Some might have less strict quality control on a PP. If I buy a PP i ask why it is a PP. might have marks etc.
AP's are just extra copies either intentionally for replacing issues, gifts or by mis judgement. If you want to print an edition of 50 you will print more as you can have issues on every layer. so a 6 layer print you could have issues on each layer. The pro's will likely have less. So should be no difference in quality or price, But yes they should be numbered.
PP is a printers proof so it could be a test colour or slightly different from edition. Some might have less strict quality control on a PP. If I buy a PP i ask why it is a PP. might have marks etc.
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Carl Cashman Art on Apr 12, 2022 13:08:21 GMT 1, Unless it's a different colurway like banksy used to do, there should be zero price difference.
Unless it's a different colurway like banksy used to do, there should be zero price difference.
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Ghoul Bones Jones on Apr 12, 2022 16:01:12 GMT 1, All of these comments are incredibly illuminating! It sounds like then that my prior understanding that APs were "worth more" was probably just effective marketing. I do recall there being a years-long thread on this forum for people to show off their APs. Perhaps the idea that APs are worth more or higher quality is just simply antiquated. It just goes to show that value in art can be a largely subjective assessment. Thank you all for your earnest answers.
All of these comments are incredibly illuminating! It sounds like then that my prior understanding that APs were "worth more" was probably just effective marketing. I do recall there being a years-long thread on this forum for people to show off their APs. Perhaps the idea that APs are worth more or higher quality is just simply antiquated. It just goes to show that value in art can be a largely subjective assessment. Thank you all for your earnest answers.
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Lazarus II
Junior Member
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August 2019
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Lazarus II on Apr 12, 2022 16:18:46 GMT 1, All of these comments are incredibly illuminating! It sounds like then that my prior understanding that APs were "worth more" was probably just effective marketing. I do recall there being a years-long thread on this forum for people to show off their APs. Perhaps the idea that APs are worth more or higher quality is just simply antiquated. It just goes to show that value in art can be a largely subjective assessment. Thank you all for your earnest answers.
not all artists artist proofs are the same, see carlcashmanart comment above. Some of Banksy A/Pโs are very different from the original edition and some are very limited in numbers eg the IFTL A/Pโs are signed editions of 8. Some galleries could be pumping them out in numbers that may exceed the number in the original edition, we may never knowโฆ
All of these comments are incredibly illuminating! It sounds like then that my prior understanding that APs were "worth more" was probably just effective marketing. I do recall there being a years-long thread on this forum for people to show off their APs. Perhaps the idea that APs are worth more or higher quality is just simply antiquated. It just goes to show that value in art can be a largely subjective assessment. Thank you all for your earnest answers. not all artists artist proofs are the same, see carlcashmanart comment above. Some of Banksy A/Pโs are very different from the original edition and some are very limited in numbers eg the IFTL A/Pโs are signed editions of 8. Some galleries could be pumping them out in numbers that may exceed the number in the original edition, we may never knowโฆ |
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wigs
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April 2008
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by wigs on Apr 12, 2022 16:21:43 GMT 1, As already mentioned some AP's come in different colourways but also some can contain additional hand finishing which I feel adds to value. These should be numbered and a small percentage of the main edition (5% comes to mind but I'm sure there is an historical thread explaining this)
As already mentioned some AP's come in different colourways but also some can contain additional hand finishing which I feel adds to value. These should be numbered and a small percentage of the main edition (5% comes to mind but I'm sure there is an historical thread explaining this)
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Riotcops
Junior Member
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June 2018
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Riotcops on Apr 12, 2022 16:36:02 GMT 1, AP's absolutely are more valuable. Though, they seem to be losing the aura that once was.
They were the exact prints that the artist would use to approve the printing process. Therefor, they were closer to the artists hand as they were, in fact, held and inspected by the artist. Whereas the main edition would be run off afterwards - perhaps, never even seen by the artist.
When there are AP's of 5 or 6, I personally value them at about 20% higher than the main edition. Not so much when they are not numbered AP's as there's no way of knowing how many there were. Nowadays, seeing AP's of 100 from an edition of 500 is a complete joke and pure marketing. They are just a way to increase the edition size and make more money. PP's are generally gifts to the print makers.
I do believe there's two sides to this coin.
AP's absolutely are more valuable. Though, they seem to be losing the aura that once was.
They were the exact prints that the artist would use to approve the printing process. Therefor, they were closer to the artists hand as they were, in fact, held and inspected by the artist. Whereas the main edition would be run off afterwards - perhaps, never even seen by the artist.
When there are AP's of 5 or 6, I personally value them at about 20% higher than the main edition. Not so much when they are not numbered AP's as there's no way of knowing how many there were. Nowadays, seeing AP's of 100 from an edition of 500 is a complete joke and pure marketing. They are just a way to increase the edition size and make more money. PP's are generally gifts to the print makers.
I do believe there's two sides to this coin.
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Dino Link
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October 2021
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Dino Link on Apr 12, 2022 17:23:50 GMT 1, Slightly off topic but how about the first or last of the main edition, what is the usual premium (eg, 1/100 or 100/100)?
Slightly off topic but how about the first or last of the main edition, what is the usual premium (eg, 1/100 or 100/100)?
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Ned Flanders
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February 2021
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Ned Flanders on Apr 12, 2022 18:22:23 GMT 1, Slightly off topic but how about the first or last of the main edition, what is the usual premium (eg, 1/100 or 100/100)?
I would say that is a gimmick. Unless itโs a Kaws print as the target market probably also collect Pokรฉmon cards and would buy into that type of stuff. Same with APs of 100 etc.
Slightly off topic but how about the first or last of the main edition, what is the usual premium (eg, 1/100 or 100/100)? I would say that is a gimmick. Unless itโs a Kaws print as the target market probably also collect Pokรฉmon cards and would buy into that type of stuff. Same with APs of 100 etc. |
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STP
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Posts โข 262
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February 2022
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by STP on Apr 12, 2022 18:57:35 GMT 1, As already mentioned some AP's come in different colourways but also some can contain additional hand finishing which I feel adds to value. These should be numbered and a small percentage of the main edition (5% comes to mind but I'm sure there is an historical thread explaining this) Traditionally, AP's should number no more than 10% of the edition.
The number of PP's should be dictated by the number of printers working on the creation of the edition.
As already mentioned some AP's come in different colourways but also some can contain additional hand finishing which I feel adds to value. These should be numbered and a small percentage of the main edition (5% comes to mind but I'm sure there is an historical thread explaining this) Traditionally, AP's should number no more than 10% of the edition.
The number of PP's should be dictated by the number of printers working on the creation of the edition.
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Ghoul Bones Jones on Apr 12, 2022 19:13:19 GMT 1, Slightly off topic but how about the first or last of the main edition, what is the usual premium (eg, 1/100 or 100/100)?
Slightly off topic but how about the first or last of the main edition, what is the usual premium (eg, 1/100 or 100/100)? I have often wondered the same. I think it's rational to say that the first or last of an edition is worth the exact same as any other number, but human beings aren't completely rational people. The buying and selling of art is undoubtedly an emotional experience. This is balanced against the rational experience of investing in an asset and making an informed purchase. Beyond just the personal joy that art brings us, we want assurances that what we are buying is a sound financial decision as well. Even the most marginal of value-adds (such as having an AP or ed# 1/100) would help guide that decision, and I think would warrant a small premium. Just my two cents! |
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How to quantify increased value of an Artist's Proof?, by Coach on Apr 12, 2022 21:28:06 GMT 1, Slightly off topic but how about the first or last of the main edition, what is the usual premium (eg, 1/100 or 100/100)?
I would have said I couldnโt give a stuff.
Until I recently received a Koak print numbered 200/200.
I will confess to a little shudder of excitement.
So it clearly did mean something to me.
I doubt Iโd pay a premium though.
Except for number 1. But these are quite rarely for sale as many artists keep these for themselves or close friends or family.
Slightly off topic but how about the first or last of the main edition, what is the usual premium (eg, 1/100 or 100/100)? I would have said I couldnโt give a stuff. Until I recently received a Koak print numbered 200/200. I will confess to a little shudder of excitement. So it clearly did mean something to me. I doubt Iโd pay a premium though. Except for number 1. But these are quite rarely for sale as many artists keep these for themselves or close friends or family. |
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