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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Lord Elrond on Jul 1, 2023 23:35:07 GMT 1, I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic. Which list do you mean? If it is the empirically derived list the data indicates that to date in 2023 auction turnover for BAST is £0. BAST would be added in at the bottom next to Os Gemeos. In 2022 turnover for BAST was £4k with a 84% sell through rate and in 2021 turnover was £3k with a 50% sell through rate.
I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic. Which list do you mean? If it is the empirically derived list the data indicates that to date in 2023 auction turnover for BAST is £0. BAST would be added in at the bottom next to Os Gemeos. In 2022 turnover for BAST was £4k with a 84% sell through rate and in 2021 turnover was £3k with a 50% sell through rate.
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Art Collector 11 on Jul 2, 2023 1:15:56 GMT 1, Where did this “data” come from just curious, source is everything.
Is this derived from one auction houses sales or the many auction houses, art galleries and historical s from private sales. If this is the case I’m sure the data would look completely different.
Where did this “data” come from just curious, source is everything.
Is this derived from one auction houses sales or the many auction houses, art galleries and historical s from private sales. If this is the case I’m sure the data would look completely different.
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Lord Elrond on Jul 2, 2023 8:50:53 GMT 1, The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different.
The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different.
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by warsaw project on Jul 2, 2023 12:33:08 GMT 1, I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic. Don't remember the collaboration between bast and sickboy, have you got any info I'd love to see ?
I’m surprised I do not see Bast in this list. He has worked with Banksy, Faile, Sickboy, Lazarides and many others. Sadly he is no longer around to make anymore pieces. His varied artwork always still shows that you know it is a “Bast” piece like you know when it is a Basquiat, Haring or Banksy just from its esthetic. Don't remember the collaboration between bast and sickboy, have you got any info I'd love to see ?
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orchid
Junior Member
Posts • 1,450
Likes • 1,135
May 2018
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by orchid on Jul 2, 2023 13:34:43 GMT 1, A few passes but some otherwise strong results from contemporary auctions recently at Christies, Phillips and Sothebys given time of year, seems that confidence is returning, I think 'bargains' will start drying up through this year.
A few passes but some otherwise strong results from contemporary auctions recently at Christies, Phillips and Sothebys given time of year, seems that confidence is returning, I think 'bargains' will start drying up through this year.
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Gucci Da Glacier on Jul 2, 2023 21:36:46 GMT 1, The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different. I don’t think that includes all auction results also as an Os Gemeos - The Other Side print sold on Catawiki just 2 months ago.
The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different. I don’t think that includes all auction results also as an Os Gemeos - The Other Side print sold on Catawiki just 2 months ago.
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Lord Elrond on Jul 2, 2023 22:54:41 GMT 1, The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different. I don’t think that includes all auction results also as an Os Gemeos - The Other Side print sold on Catawiki just 2 months ago. You are completely correct. The data excludes results from Catawiki and also eBay. I think that this could be because neither Catawiki or eBay keep a permanent public record of results.
The data is the aggregate hammer price of all lots sold at auction to date in 2023 from publicly available auction data worldwide. I have already said this on several occasions on this thread if you have time to scroll back and familiarise yourself with the methodology. You are right though, if the data was also derived from "art galleries" and "historical s from private sales" it would look completely different. I don’t think that includes all auction results also as an Os Gemeos - The Other Side print sold on Catawiki just 2 months ago. You are completely correct. The data excludes results from Catawiki and also eBay. I think that this could be because neither Catawiki or eBay keep a permanent public record of results.
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nobokov
Junior Member
Posts • 4,868
Likes • 6,778
February 2016
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by nobokov on Jul 3, 2023 20:05:23 GMT 1, Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127
"The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market."
news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174
Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Lord Elrond on Jul 3, 2023 20:21:25 GMT 1, Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174 The article made a mistake in the sensational headline. The Bernard Meadows was actually £127 and not $127!
www.phillips.com/detail/bernard-meadows/UK010423/79
Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174The article made a mistake in the sensational headline. The Bernard Meadows was actually £127 and not $127! www.phillips.com/detail/bernard-meadows/UK010423/79
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drbf
New Member
Posts • 292
Likes • 160
December 2017
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by drbf on Jul 3, 2023 22:14:14 GMT 1, Anytime two Warhol’s don’t sell is another indication the art market is in for a correction
Anytime two Warhol’s don’t sell is another indication the art market is in for a correction
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Lord Elrond on Jul 4, 2023 9:16:54 GMT 1, Anytime two Warhol’s don’t sell is another indication the art market is in for a correction The canaries in the coal mine?
Anytime two Warhol’s don’t sell is another indication the art market is in for a correction The canaries in the coal mine?
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by its all about me on Jul 4, 2023 10:51:00 GMT 1, Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174 Sales of 11.5 million in just one month is "dismal"? Wow!
Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174Sales of 11.5 million in just one month is "dismal"? Wow!
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orchid
Junior Member
Posts • 1,450
Likes • 1,135
May 2018
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by orchid on Jul 4, 2023 14:23:40 GMT 1, Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174Sales of 11.5 million in just one month is "dismal"? Wow! Exactly....I think people expect year on year large upward trends.
'Global auction sales from Christie’s, Sotheby’s and Phillips decreased 18% during the first 6 months in 2023, with auction sales ending up at $5.8 billion (including buyer’s premium), compared to $7.1 billion in H1 2022. Although signs of a cooling market, this is not a market in free-fall. Sales totals were still in line with H1 2021 and slightly above pre-pandemic levels seen in H1 2019.' (art tactic report)
Phillips’s Revamped London Art Auction Misfired, Notching a Dismal $11.5 Million—With One Work Hammering for Just $127 "The dismal showing was the latest confirmation that a market correction is underway. While there were definite bright spots from Christie’s and Sotheby’s sales this past week in London, they did not assuage fears of a sagging market." news.artnet.com/market/phillips-london-sale-june-2023-2330174Sales of 11.5 million in just one month is "dismal"? Wow! Exactly....I think people expect year on year large upward trends. 'Global auction sales from Christie’s, Sotheby’s and Phillips decreased 18% during the first 6 months in 2023, with auction sales ending up at $5.8 billion (including buyer’s premium), compared to $7.1 billion in H1 2022. Although signs of a cooling market, this is not a market in free-fall. Sales totals were still in line with H1 2021 and slightly above pre-pandemic levels seen in H1 2019.' (art tactic report)
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Artie Reyt
New Member
Posts • 10
Likes • 6
September 2014
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Artie Reyt on Jul 13, 2023 12:24:56 GMT 1, One thing a lot of the crystal ball gazer economists have forgotten to consider is the political cycle, two of the worlds biggest art markets (US/UK) have elections the back end of 2024 to early 25. I’d be willing to wager that there’ll be significant stimulus timed to coincide with these elections and both economies will move, no incumbent government wants voters going to polls feeling poorer. That’s why we are absorbing economic pain now so they can then loosen the reins in time for the elections. Based on this I expect a strong recovery in a number of markets starting in early-mid 2024. This also is in line with the fact inflation and energy prices are likely to have normalized by then. To respectfully offer a response to this, the US has already had its stimulus and it has worked in terms of job creation, but had the unintended consequence of inflation. A tax break before the election would have to be in the February 2024 budget, and while it would make political sense for Biden, it wouldn't make economic sense if it risked feeding inflation just at the point that it had been squeezed out of the system. He might make a middle-class tax cut a retail offer in his campaign if economic conditions allow.
As for the UK, where to start? There is simply no money for a stimulus: borrowing is already high and interest payments on what we owe are rising. Our economic pain is of the longer-term, perhaps even chronic, variety. I'd agree with those suggesting that the UK art market is at the wrong end of an understandable adjustment of priorities.
One thing a lot of the crystal ball gazer economists have forgotten to consider is the political cycle, two of the worlds biggest art markets (US/UK) have elections the back end of 2024 to early 25. I’d be willing to wager that there’ll be significant stimulus timed to coincide with these elections and both economies will move, no incumbent government wants voters going to polls feeling poorer. That’s why we are absorbing economic pain now so they can then loosen the reins in time for the elections. Based on this I expect a strong recovery in a number of markets starting in early-mid 2024. This also is in line with the fact inflation and energy prices are likely to have normalized by then. To respectfully offer a response to this, the US has already had its stimulus and it has worked in terms of job creation, but had the unintended consequence of inflation. A tax break before the election would have to be in the February 2024 budget, and while it would make political sense for Biden, it wouldn't make economic sense if it risked feeding inflation just at the point that it had been squeezed out of the system. He might make a middle-class tax cut a retail offer in his campaign if economic conditions allow. As for the UK, where to start? There is simply no money for a stimulus: borrowing is already high and interest payments on what we owe are rising. Our economic pain is of the longer-term, perhaps even chronic, variety. I'd agree with those suggesting that the UK art market is at the wrong end of an understandable adjustment of priorities.
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nobokov
Junior Member
Posts • 4,868
Likes • 6,778
February 2016
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by its all about me on Jul 14, 2023 10:44:13 GMT 1, On the contrary, doesn't that mean this is an excellent time for buying art; at least at auction anyway.
On the contrary, doesn't that mean this is an excellent time for buying art; at least at auction anyway.
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snoozy
New Member
Posts • 881
Likes • 841
July 2015
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by snoozy on Jul 14, 2023 12:14:10 GMT 1, Surely if you want to buy something you like, something you want to hang on the wall and enjoy, there must be some great bargains out there.
Surely if you want to buy something you like, something you want to hang on the wall and enjoy, there must be some great bargains out there.
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Gucci Da Glacier on Jul 14, 2023 15:12:32 GMT 1, I just buy what I like. The art market has been in a steady decline whether people want to deny it or not so there are much better investments than most art especially with the stock market roaring lately. That’s why they say to buy what you like.
I just buy what I like. The art market has been in a steady decline whether people want to deny it or not so there are much better investments than most art especially with the stock market roaring lately. That’s why they say to buy what you like.
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Display_arts on Jul 14, 2023 15:38:16 GMT 1, I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom.
I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom.
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nobokov
Junior Member
Posts • 4,868
Likes • 6,778
February 2016
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by nobokov on Jul 14, 2023 19:58:11 GMT 1, I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom. Everything is still overpriced. So even though it feels like a bottom because people can't even sell prints at cost, the bottom will only be when resale prices are 90% off and if primary prices go back to what they were in 2016.
Galleries and printshops got too greedy and now they'll pay the price along with flippers who thought that there would be a resale market for $5000 prints. But still my emails are still inundated with weekly edition releases with unique scribbles and paint blobs.
I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom. Everything is still overpriced. So even though it feels like a bottom because people can't even sell prints at cost, the bottom will only be when resale prices are 90% off and if primary prices go back to what they were in 2016.
Galleries and printshops got too greedy and now they'll pay the price along with flippers who thought that there would be a resale market for $5000 prints. But still my emails are still inundated with weekly edition releases with unique scribbles and paint blobs.
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drbf
New Member
Posts • 292
Likes • 160
December 2017
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by drbf on Jul 14, 2023 20:14:23 GMT 1, I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom. Should keep NVDA, will reach 500+
I really don’t get it. You sell when things are at a top and buy when it’s bottom. If you do it the other way around you lose money. It’s a good time to collect some nice stuff - for a collector and an investors point of view. Just sold half of my Nvidia Stock because prices are stupid high. Everything as a top and everything has a bottom. Should keep NVDA, will reach 500+
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LJCal
Junior Member
Posts • 2,812
Likes • 4,223
December 2019
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by LJCal on Jul 15, 2023 0:31:10 GMT 1, A lot of crystal ball gazing, the only certainty right now is uncertainty. All I'd say is that many markets have got very carried away in the last few years and not behaved particularly rationally, greed and fear on steroids. Prices got way too ahead of themselves on the way up and basically became detached from logic, I'd say there is certainly a chance things are going the other way and people are being a little hysterical with the selling. Personally if you're buying decent stuff from established artists at realistic valuations and willing to sit on it a few years now is a great opportunity to add works to your collection, especially works you love that may become unattainable in 3-5 years.
A lot of crystal ball gazing, the only certainty right now is uncertainty. All I'd say is that many markets have got very carried away in the last few years and not behaved particularly rationally, greed and fear on steroids. Prices got way too ahead of themselves on the way up and basically became detached from logic, I'd say there is certainly a chance things are going the other way and people are being a little hysterical with the selling. Personally if you're buying decent stuff from established artists at realistic valuations and willing to sit on it a few years now is a great opportunity to add works to your collection, especially works you love that may become unattainable in 3-5 years.
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by House of Arts on Jul 15, 2023 2:05:52 GMT 1, My walls are full, 99% of what's being released looks like utter shit to me, and the few things that get released that i do like get snapped up by bots and overhyped flippers within seconds so...nah I'm not buying
My walls are full, 99% of what's being released looks like utter shit to me, and the few things that get released that i do like get snapped up by bots and overhyped flippers within seconds so...nah I'm not buying
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by Lord Elrond on Jul 17, 2023 8:50:26 GMT 1, Christie’s turnover in 2022 was $5.8 billion. This was over one third (35%) of all auction turnover globally. Coming on for half of this turnover was attributed to the Bass, Allen and Amman private collections which Christie’s beat Sotheby’s to. These three extraordinary collections alone amounted to $2.4 billion (41%) of Christie’s turnover last year. 40 of the 100 highest results of 2022 came from those three collections. Sotheby’s had no answer to these three collections and turnover at Sotheby’s was less than Christie’s at $3.9 billion. The confluence of the Bass, Allen and Amman private collections in 2022 created a level that Christie’s was arguably never going to match in 2023 regardless of the macro environment. I kept this all in mind whilst I was reading the Christie's 2023 half yearly report [link].
Christie’s turnover in 2022 was $5.8 billion. This was over one third (35%) of all auction turnover globally. Coming on for half of this turnover was attributed to the Bass, Allen and Amman private collections which Christie’s beat Sotheby’s to. These three extraordinary collections alone amounted to $2.4 billion (41%) of Christie’s turnover last year. 40 of the 100 highest results of 2022 came from those three collections. Sotheby’s had no answer to these three collections and turnover at Sotheby’s was less than Christie’s at $3.9 billion. The confluence of the Bass, Allen and Amman private collections in 2022 created a level that Christie’s was arguably never going to match in 2023 regardless of the macro environment. I kept this all in mind whilst I was reading the Christie's 2023 half yearly report [ link].
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muddy
New Member
Posts • 19
Likes • 5
March 2022
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Anyone out there still buying art?, by muddy on Aug 1, 2023 19:39:28 GMT 1, everything has its good side and its bad side. Now I have been able to get some pieces of artists who had difficult access
everything has its good side and its bad side. Now I have been able to get some pieces of artists who had difficult access
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