silvermyn
Junior Member
Posts • 1,611
Likes • 781
April 2008
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POW's black list, by silvermyn on Mar 13, 2009 17:40:12 GMT 1, I've not bought anything from POW this year but I noticed that there appears to be a new box to tick to confirm that you agree to their terms and conditions as you go through to the payment page.
There has been some debate in the past on here as to whether POW have a 5H1T list and it would now appear that this is the case. One of the terms of business states the following:
"Secondary Market:
In an effort to sell art to people who want it, rather than people who want to make a profit on it, Picturesonwalls reserves the right to refund any person who advertises their print for sale prior to them being in receipt of said print. For the avoidance of doubt, we deem the contract between the seller & buyer to have been made at the point the print leaves our premises and not the point of payment.
If a print is offered for sale on the Secondary market after receipt, then Picturesonwalls reserve the right to no longer fulfil any orders to that customer."
Perfectly reasonable IMHO but I didn't realise they formalised it to this extent.
I've not bought anything from POW this year but I noticed that there appears to be a new box to tick to confirm that you agree to their terms and conditions as you go through to the payment page.
There has been some debate in the past on here as to whether POW have a 5H1T list and it would now appear that this is the case. One of the terms of business states the following:
"Secondary Market:
In an effort to sell art to people who want it, rather than people who want to make a profit on it, Picturesonwalls reserves the right to refund any person who advertises their print for sale prior to them being in receipt of said print. For the avoidance of doubt, we deem the contract between the seller & buyer to have been made at the point the print leaves our premises and not the point of payment.
If a print is offered for sale on the Secondary market after receipt, then Picturesonwalls reserve the right to no longer fulfil any orders to that customer."
Perfectly reasonable IMHO but I didn't realise they formalised it to this extent.
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POW's black list, by veralynn on Mar 13, 2009 19:22:02 GMT 1, POW can do and say what they want, but they can't avoid statute.
Specifically what might, or might not, be deemed as unfair under the unfair contract terms act and what is, or what is not, one's statutory rights.
POW can do and say what they want, but they can't avoid statute.
Specifically what might, or might not, be deemed as unfair under the unfair contract terms act and what is, or what is not, one's statutory rights.
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rdl81
New Member
Posts • 901
Likes • 46
April 2007
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POW's black list, by rdl81 on Mar 13, 2009 20:38:17 GMT 1, its my understanding that a shop/business can refuse to sell you anything and not have to give u a reason
its my understanding that a shop/business can refuse to sell you anything and not have to give u a reason
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neale
Junior Member
Posts • 1,585
Likes • 2
December 2008
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POW's black list, by neale on Mar 13, 2009 20:41:15 GMT 1, good on POW, no problem with that at all, might at least reduce the queues at the next open day
good on POW, no problem with that at all, might at least reduce the queues at the next open day
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Francis
Junior Member
Posts • 2,571
Likes • 137
September 2007
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POW's black list, by Francis on Mar 13, 2009 20:41:32 GMT 1, Has there been any print outside of Banksys that have made flippers money over the past year?
Has there been any print outside of Banksys that have made flippers money over the past year?
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POW's black list, by spenie1975 on Mar 13, 2009 21:05:41 GMT 1, This might mean that they are stuck with a lot more stock though. some of the releases lately they should be embracing the fact that the flippers still buy them thinking they can make money.
This might mean that they are stuck with a lot more stock though. some of the releases lately they should be embracing the fact that the flippers still buy them thinking they can make money.
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POW's black list, by veralynn on Mar 13, 2009 21:26:17 GMT 1, its my understanding that a shop/business can refuse to sell you anything and not have to give u a reason
Not when they have accepted you as a customer and generally this would be at point of sale. I think POW would have to wait until they posted to charge you (I think....) to make this argument valid.
For example, if you went into Tesco and bought a bottle of champagne for £15.00 and it was advertised at that price then if you had put other goods on the conveyor they would be deemed to have accepted you as a customer and would be obliged to honour that sale even if the actual price for that bottle was £30.00
If the price advertised was £1 and it was clear to a reasonable person that the advertised price was a mistake then this would not apply....I think.
its my understanding that a shop/business can refuse to sell you anything and not have to give u a reason Not when they have accepted you as a customer and generally this would be at point of sale. I think POW would have to wait until they posted to charge you (I think....) to make this argument valid. For example, if you went into Tesco and bought a bottle of champagne for £15.00 and it was advertised at that price then if you had put other goods on the conveyor they would be deemed to have accepted you as a customer and would be obliged to honour that sale even if the actual price for that bottle was £30.00 If the price advertised was £1 and it was clear to a reasonable person that the advertised price was a mistake then this would not apply....I think. |
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Deleted
Posts • 0
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January 1970
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POW's black list, by Deleted on Mar 13, 2009 23:30:47 GMT 1, what is a flipper in forum gods and POW terms? To be called a flipper, do you to buy a print and then sell it within 1,3,6,12 , + months? If you sell your POW print at cost or just over to cover fees/P&P would you still be classed as a flipper by this forum gods and POW? Sorry if this question has been asked before which i'm sure it has, i just wanted to know what others think, i have my definition of a flipper what's yours?
what is a flipper in forum gods and POW terms? To be called a flipper, do you to buy a print and then sell it within 1,3,6,12 , + months? If you sell your POW print at cost or just over to cover fees/P&P would you still be classed as a flipper by this forum gods and POW? Sorry if this question has been asked before which i'm sure it has, i just wanted to know what others think, i have my definition of a flipper what's yours?
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POW's black list, by mammal1 on Mar 13, 2009 23:34:40 GMT 1, There is a shit list and a cunt list I believe.
There is a shit list and a cunt list I believe.
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POW's black list, by wiz on Mar 13, 2009 23:37:02 GMT 1, Hahahaha im on a few of those!.
Hahahaha im on a few of those!.
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POW's black list, by Coach on Mar 13, 2009 23:45:33 GMT 1, what is a flipper in forum gods and POW terms? To be called a flipper, do you to buy a print and then sell it within 1,3,6,12 , + months? If you sell your POW print at cost or just over to cover fees/P&P would you still be classed as a flipper by this forum gods and POW? Sorry if this question has been asked before which i'm sure it has, i just wanted to know what others think, i have my definition of a flipper what's yours?
I dont think it's a matter of time, its a question of intention.
If you buy a piece cos you like it, but sell it quite soon after cos you go off it, dont like it as much in the flesh, or need the cash to buy something else or some other such reason, its not flipping in my book. I have sold 3 prints, one quite soon after recieving it, cos I wanted funds to buy a Dale Grimshaw canvass that I had fallen in love with. I sold it just less than cost cos it was still available at source. But when I bought it, I had no intention of selling it. So, even if I had sold it at a profit, I dont think I would have been flipping?
If someone buys cos they see a profit for a quick sale - that is flipping in my book. All a question of intention - and for that reason, I would not easily think of someone as a flipper.
Thats all just my opinion of course.
Cheers
c
what is a flipper in forum gods and POW terms? To be called a flipper, do you to buy a print and then sell it within 1,3,6,12 , + months? If you sell your POW print at cost or just over to cover fees/P&P would you still be classed as a flipper by this forum gods and POW? Sorry if this question has been asked before which i'm sure it has, i just wanted to know what others think, i have my definition of a flipper what's yours? I dont think it's a matter of time, its a question of intention. If you buy a piece cos you like it, but sell it quite soon after cos you go off it, dont like it as much in the flesh, or need the cash to buy something else or some other such reason, its not flipping in my book. I have sold 3 prints, one quite soon after recieving it, cos I wanted funds to buy a Dale Grimshaw canvass that I had fallen in love with. I sold it just less than cost cos it was still available at source. But when I bought it, I had no intention of selling it. So, even if I had sold it at a profit, I dont think I would have been flipping? If someone buys cos they see a profit for a quick sale - that is flipping in my book. All a question of intention - and for that reason, I would not easily think of someone as a flipper. Thats all just my opinion of course. Cheers c |
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torontojon
New Member
Posts • 42
Likes • 0
February 2009
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POW's black list, by torontojon on Mar 13, 2009 23:46:14 GMT 1, I hate to say it but the flippers create a healthy secondary market value for the art.
just my opinion because eventually everything becomes available at a reasonable price.
again, just my opinion 
I hate to say it but the flippers create a healthy secondary market value for the art. just my opinion because eventually everything becomes available at a reasonable price. again, just my opinion |
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Deleted
Posts • 0
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January 1970
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POW's black list, by Deleted on Mar 13, 2009 23:58:21 GMT 1, what is a flipper in forum gods and POW terms? To be called a flipper, do you to buy a print and then sell it within 1,3,6,12 , + months? If you sell your POW print at cost or just over to cover fees/P&P would you still be classed as a flipper by this forum gods and POW? Sorry if this question has been asked before which i'm sure it has, i just wanted to know what others think, i have my definition of a flipper what's yours? I dont think it's a matter of time, its a question of intention. If you buy a piece cos you like it, but sell it quite soon after cos you go off it, dont like it as much in the flesh, or need the cash to buy something else or some other such reason, its not flipping in my book. I have sold 3 prints, one quite soon after recieving it, cos I wanted funds to buy a Dale Grimshaw canvass that I had fallen in love with. I sold it just less than cost cos it was still available at source. But when I bought it, I had no intention of selling it. So, even if I had sold it at a profit, I dont think I would have been flipping? If someone buys cos they see a profit for a quick sale - that is flipping in my book. All a question of intention - and for that reason, I would not easily think of someone as a flipper. Thats all just my opinion of course. Cheers c
intent will be hard for POW to quantify if you use your logic , no  , i see 80% of sale on here with the "i need to fund another purchase", who to believe, lots of prints sold and swapped on here and the bay with kept flat ect, i know it's not black and white but come on pepole let me know what you think, objectively tho please.
what is a flipper in forum gods and POW terms? To be called a flipper, do you to buy a print and then sell it within 1,3,6,12 , + months? If you sell your POW print at cost or just over to cover fees/P&P would you still be classed as a flipper by this forum gods and POW? Sorry if this question has been asked before which i'm sure it has, i just wanted to know what others think, i have my definition of a flipper what's yours? I dont think it's a matter of time, its a question of intention. If you buy a piece cos you like it, but sell it quite soon after cos you go off it, dont like it as much in the flesh, or need the cash to buy something else or some other such reason, its not flipping in my book. I have sold 3 prints, one quite soon after recieving it, cos I wanted funds to buy a Dale Grimshaw canvass that I had fallen in love with. I sold it just less than cost cos it was still available at source. But when I bought it, I had no intention of selling it. So, even if I had sold it at a profit, I dont think I would have been flipping? If someone buys cos they see a profit for a quick sale - that is flipping in my book. All a question of intention - and for that reason, I would not easily think of someone as a flipper. Thats all just my opinion of course. Cheers c intent will be hard for POW to quantify if you use your logic , no , i see 80% of sale on here with the "i need to fund another purchase", who to believe, lots of prints sold and swapped on here and the bay with kept flat ect, i know it's not black and white but come on pepole let me know what you think, objectively tho please. |
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Deleted
Posts • 0
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January 1970
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POW's black list, by Deleted on Mar 14, 2009 0:01:23 GMT 1, There is a s**t list and a c**t list I believe.
anyone on any of these lists then? come on fess up
There is a s**t list and a c**t list I believe. anyone on any of these lists then? come on fess up |
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POW's black list, by Coach on Mar 14, 2009 0:08:34 GMT 1, I dont think it's a matter of time, its a question of intention. If you buy a piece cos you like it, but sell it quite soon after cos you go off it, dont like it as much in the flesh, or need the cash to buy something else or some other such reason, its not flipping in my book. I have sold 3 prints, one quite soon after recieving it, cos I wanted funds to buy a Dale Grimshaw canvass that I had fallen in love with. I sold it just less than cost cos it was still available at source. But when I bought it, I had no intention of selling it. So, even if I had sold it at a profit, I dont think I would have been flipping? If someone buys cos they see a profit for a quick sale - that is flipping in my book. All a question of intention - and for that reason, I would not easily think of someone as a flipper. Thats all just my opinion of course. Cheers c intent will be hard for POW to quantify if you use your logic , no , i see 80% of sale on here with the "i need to fund another purchase", who to believe, lots of prints sold and swapped on here and the bay with kept flat ect, i know it's not black and white but come on pepole let me know what you think, objectively tho please.
Topboy, I totally agree that it would be hard to suggest someone has flipped if my view is correct - I wasnt suggesting that its anyone else's definition other than my own, and its why I said I would personally be very cautious of labeling someone a flipper. But you asked what we/I thought a flipper is - and that's what I think. Whether it's a workable definition for banning people from stuff is a different question imo, and that's not a question I would like to try to answer.
Cheers
c
I dont think it's a matter of time, its a question of intention. If you buy a piece cos you like it, but sell it quite soon after cos you go off it, dont like it as much in the flesh, or need the cash to buy something else or some other such reason, its not flipping in my book. I have sold 3 prints, one quite soon after recieving it, cos I wanted funds to buy a Dale Grimshaw canvass that I had fallen in love with. I sold it just less than cost cos it was still available at source. But when I bought it, I had no intention of selling it. So, even if I had sold it at a profit, I dont think I would have been flipping? If someone buys cos they see a profit for a quick sale - that is flipping in my book. All a question of intention - and for that reason, I would not easily think of someone as a flipper. Thats all just my opinion of course. Cheers c intent will be hard for POW to quantify if you use your logic , no , i see 80% of sale on here with the "i need to fund another purchase", who to believe, lots of prints sold and swapped on here and the bay with kept flat ect, i know it's not black and white but come on pepole let me know what you think, objectively tho please. Topboy, I totally agree that it would be hard to suggest someone has flipped if my view is correct - I wasnt suggesting that its anyone else's definition other than my own, and its why I said I would personally be very cautious of labeling someone a flipper. But you asked what we/I thought a flipper is - and that's what I think. Whether it's a workable definition for banning people from stuff is a different question imo, and that's not a question I would like to try to answer. Cheers c |
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POW's black list, by mammal1 on Mar 14, 2009 0:13:59 GMT 1, This flipping debate is no longer relevant. Only Banksy trades for extra of any real money, but that guy will only put out a print or two a year, so who cares? Why not cross your fingers, be lucky and get that shit on your walls.
This flipping debate is no longer relevant. Only Banksy trades for extra of any real money, but that guy will only put out a print or two a year, so who cares? Why not cross your fingers, be lucky and get that shit on your walls.
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torontojon
New Member
Posts • 42
Likes • 0
February 2009
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POW's black list, by torontojon on Mar 14, 2009 0:15:04 GMT 1, I agree with what POW is saying.
They categorize a flipper as someone who sells the art before they get it. It clearly shows intention. Why would you take the time to purchase a print to turn around and sell it before you receive it. That to me makes total sense.
Then, I also agree with their second point. If you get your print, and then immediately put it up on the bay etc it also shows intent. And then it totally gives them the right to not fulfill future orders from the same individual. just my opinion of course
I think after a few months they wouldn't really care though because (going by my personal feelings) it takes a solid few months to see if a framed print actually ends up looking like you hoped it would. And by that time, the secondary market settles.
I have a framed NOLA and it is the least favorite of my prints. Yet when I got it I was completely thrilled. My tastes have evolved to prints with more white space, rather than darker images. It's framed etc etc but I would 100% entertain trading it for other artists that I NOW enjoy more than I would the NOLA.
jut my opinion.
sorry to rant...
I agree with what POW is saying. They categorize a flipper as someone who sells the art before they get it. It clearly shows intention. Why would you take the time to purchase a print to turn around and sell it before you receive it. That to me makes total sense. Then, I also agree with their second point. If you get your print, and then immediately put it up on the bay etc it also shows intent. And then it totally gives them the right to not fulfill future orders from the same individual. just my opinion of course I think after a few months they wouldn't really care though because (going by my personal feelings) it takes a solid few months to see if a framed print actually ends up looking like you hoped it would. And by that time, the secondary market settles. I have a framed NOLA and it is the least favorite of my prints. Yet when I got it I was completely thrilled. My tastes have evolved to prints with more white space, rather than darker images. It's framed etc etc but I would 100% entertain trading it for other artists that I NOW enjoy more than I would the NOLA. jut my opinion. sorry to rant... |
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POW's black list, by Coach on Mar 14, 2009 0:18:06 GMT 1, This flipping debate is no longer relevant. Only Banksy trades for extra of any real money, but that guy will only put out a print or two a year, so who cares? Why not cross your fingers, be lucky and get that s**t on your walls.
Now that I agree with.
c
This flipping debate is no longer relevant. Only Banksy trades for extra of any real money, but that guy will only put out a print or two a year, so who cares? Why not cross your fingers, be lucky and get that s**t on your walls. Now that I agree with. c |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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POW's black list, by Deleted on Mar 14, 2009 0:19:58 GMT 1, intent will be hard for POW to quantify if you use your logic , no , i see 80% of sale on here with the "i need to fund another purchase", who to believe, lots of prints sold and swapped on here and the bay with kept flat ect, i know it's not black and white but come on pepole let me know what you think, objectively tho please. Topboy, I totally agree that it would be hard to suggest someone has flipped if my view is correct - I wasnt suggesting that its anyone else's definition other than my own, and its why I said I would personally be very cautious of labeling someone a flipper. But you asked what we/I thought a flipper is - and that's what I think. Whether it's a workable definition for banning people from stuff is a different question imo, and that's not a question I would like to try to answer. Cheers c
sorry it that came across wrong,i know it's hard to define a flipper as we have all different views on this , some with self interests and some who have axes to grind ect .
intent will be hard for POW to quantify if you use your logic , no , i see 80% of sale on here with the "i need to fund another purchase", who to believe, lots of prints sold and swapped on here and the bay with kept flat ect, i know it's not black and white but come on pepole let me know what you think, objectively tho please. Topboy, I totally agree that it would be hard to suggest someone has flipped if my view is correct - I wasnt suggesting that its anyone else's definition other than my own, and its why I said I would personally be very cautious of labeling someone a flipper. But you asked what we/I thought a flipper is - and that's what I think. Whether it's a workable definition for banning people from stuff is a different question imo, and that's not a question I would like to try to answer. Cheers c sorry it that came across wrong,i know it's hard to define a flipper as we have all different views on this , some with self interests and some who have axes to grind ect . |
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POW's black list, by Coach on Mar 14, 2009 0:41:52 GMT 1, Topboy, I totally agree that it would be hard to suggest someone has flipped if my view is correct - I wasnt suggesting that its anyone else's definition other than my own, and its why I said I would personally be very cautious of labeling someone a flipper. But you asked what we/I thought a flipper is - and that's what I think. Whether it's a workable definition for banning people from stuff is a different question imo, and that's not a question I would like to try to answer. Cheers c sorry it that came across wrong,i know it's hard to define a flipper as we have all different views on this , some with self interests and some who have axes to grind ect .
No worries mate. So far as the forum is concerned, its all pretty obvious. Elsewhere - who knows - its all anyones guess, and nowt we can do about it anyway.
Good to debate with you Top.
c
Topboy, I totally agree that it would be hard to suggest someone has flipped if my view is correct - I wasnt suggesting that its anyone else's definition other than my own, and its why I said I would personally be very cautious of labeling someone a flipper. But you asked what we/I thought a flipper is - and that's what I think. Whether it's a workable definition for banning people from stuff is a different question imo, and that's not a question I would like to try to answer. Cheers c sorry it that came across wrong,i know it's hard to define a flipper as we have all different views on this , some with self interests and some who have axes to grind ect . No worries mate. So far as the forum is concerned, its all pretty obvious. Elsewhere - who knows - its all anyones guess, and nowt we can do about it anyway. Good to debate with you Top. c |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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POW's black list, by Deleted on Mar 14, 2009 0:47:05 GMT 1, sorry it that came across wrong,i know it's hard to define a flipper as we have all different views on this , some with self interests and some who have axes to grind ect . No worries mate. So far as the forum is concerned, its all pretty obvious. Elsewhere - who knows - its all anyones guess, and nowt we can do about it anyway. Good to debate with you Top. c
Good to debate with you too c
sorry it that came across wrong,i know it's hard to define a flipper as we have all different views on this , some with self interests and some who have axes to grind ect . No worries mate. So far as the forum is concerned, its all pretty obvious. Elsewhere - who knows - its all anyones guess, and nowt we can do about it anyway. Good to debate with you Top. c Good to debate with you too c |
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, i see 80% of sale on here with the "i need to fund another purchase", who to believe, lots of prints sold and swapped on here and the bay with kept flat ect, i know it's not black and white but come on pepole let me know what you think, objectively tho please. 
