stickitup
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June 2007
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by stickitup on Oct 2, 2009 12:13:49 GMT 1, can someone point me in the right direction for a thread regarding authentication. basically i have a print but i cant remember who i got it from and it didn't come with authentication as it was purchased long before all this became an issue and prices rose dramatically, how do i prove i am the legitimate owner?
can someone point me in the right direction for a thread regarding authentication. basically i have a print but i cant remember who i got it from and it didn't come with authentication as it was purchased long before all this became an issue and prices rose dramatically, how do i prove i am the legitimate owner?
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Karl Read
Artist
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April 2008
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by Karl Read on Oct 2, 2009 12:44:28 GMT 1, Who is the artist and what's the title?
Who is the artist and what's the title?
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by silvermyn on Oct 2, 2009 12:45:59 GMT 1, If you are enquiring about a Banksy print then contact Dora at Picture On Walls thought the website. POW tend to keep a register of owners and can confirm whether you are recorded as the registered owner. POW can even sell you a certificate for ยฃ50 plus VAT.
If it's the work of a different artist then you may have more of a challenge on your hands with authentication. Either way, best contact the gallery where you bought the print and see what they can do for you.
If you are enquiring about a Banksy print then contact Dora at Picture On Walls thought the website. POW tend to keep a register of owners and can confirm whether you are recorded as the registered owner. POW can even sell you a certificate for ยฃ50 plus VAT.
If it's the work of a different artist then you may have more of a challenge on your hands with authentication. Either way, best contact the gallery where you bought the print and see what they can do for you.
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stickitup
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June 2007
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by stickitup on Oct 2, 2009 13:29:31 GMT 1, it was a print bought from a secondary maybe even terciary source, the artist is not banksy but is from POW, I have no idea who the person I got the print from is or if they were the original owner. Its a Hewlett - the hick, I am sure POW can tell me who the original purchaser was however it is no longer with them and I am the new owner, does the stamp on the print confirm it is authenticatable (if thats the right word)?
it was a print bought from a secondary maybe even terciary source, the artist is not banksy but is from POW, I have no idea who the person I got the print from is or if they were the original owner. Its a Hewlett - the hick, I am sure POW can tell me who the original purchaser was however it is no longer with them and I am the new owner, does the stamp on the print confirm it is authenticatable (if thats the right word)?
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by silvermyn on Oct 2, 2009 13:42:26 GMT 1, The blind stamp is not conclusive, there were a few fake prints with blind stamps if I remember correctly as these can also be forged.
Take a photo of your print and email it over to POW if you're really concerned. They may or may not be able to help but I doubt you'll get formal authentication from them. Good luck with it.
The blind stamp is not conclusive, there were a few fake prints with blind stamps if I remember correctly as these can also be forged.
Take a photo of your print and email it over to POW if you're really concerned. They may or may not be able to help but I doubt you'll get formal authentication from them. Good luck with it.
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cap1one1
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July 2009
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by cap1one1 on Oct 2, 2009 13:50:33 GMT 1, Even in the case of Banksy the system isn't foolproof. What if someone gets an unsigned and unnumbered proof, or an unsigned edition print and erases the number signs and numbers it the same as someone who hasn't registered theirs then applys for A COA at POW, claiming to be the legitimate owner but cant remember who they bought it from. Dora in all her wisdom unwittingly issues A COA and the fake becomes the genuine one because POW says so. Where is the protection from that. Im sure all the paper is the same so Whoever registers first is the one who makes theirs legit.
Even in the case of Banksy the system isn't foolproof. What if someone gets an unsigned and unnumbered proof, or an unsigned edition print and erases the number signs and numbers it the same as someone who hasn't registered theirs then applys for A COA at POW, claiming to be the legitimate owner but cant remember who they bought it from. Dora in all her wisdom unwittingly issues A COA and the fake becomes the genuine one because POW says so. Where is the protection from that. Im sure all the paper is the same so Whoever registers first is the one who makes theirs legit.
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howlinjack
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July 2006
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by howlinjack on Oct 2, 2009 13:52:13 GMT 1, The blind stamp is not conclusive, there were a few fake prints with blind stamps if I remember correctly as these can also be forged. Take a photo of your print and email it over to POW if you're really concerned. They may or may not be able to help but I doubt you'll get formal authentication from them. Good luck with it.
silvermyn is right the POW stamp was faked a while back. think it got used on fake banksy prints though. should be alright with your hewlitt. drop them a line. they helped me out on a micallef a while back. dora is very helpful.
The blind stamp is not conclusive, there were a few fake prints with blind stamps if I remember correctly as these can also be forged. Take a photo of your print and email it over to POW if you're really concerned. They may or may not be able to help but I doubt you'll get formal authentication from them. Good luck with it. silvermyn is right the POW stamp was faked a while back. think it got used on fake banksy prints though. should be alright with your hewlitt. drop them a line. they helped me out on a micallef a while back. dora is very helpful. |
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scottc
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October 2007
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by scottc on Oct 2, 2009 14:03:11 GMT 1, Wasn't there a issue with some Laugh now prints which had fake stamps Howlin??
Wasn't there a issue with some Laugh now prints which had fake stamps Howlin??
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howlinjack
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July 2006
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by howlinjack on Oct 2, 2009 14:03:45 GMT 1, Even in the case of Banksy the system isn't foolproof. What if someone gets an unsigned and unnumbered proof, or an unsigned edition print and erases the number signs and numbers it the same as someone who hasn't registered theirs then applys for A COA at POW, claiming to be the legitimate owner but cant remember who they bought it from. Dora in all her wisdom unwittingly issues A COA and the fake becomes the genuine one because POW says so. Where is the protection from that. Im sure all the paper is the same so Whoever registers first is the one who makes theirs legit.
i thought the very same thing a while back. then put it down to paranoia on my part. but it does seem scarily feasible. who knows in years to come it could end up like the mess the warhol foundation has to deal with on a daily basis. que rush to register prints. i did have a duplicate number shared with one D. Hirst. sorted now mind.
Even in the case of Banksy the system isn't foolproof. What if someone gets an unsigned and unnumbered proof, or an unsigned edition print and erases the number signs and numbers it the same as someone who hasn't registered theirs then applys for A COA at POW, claiming to be the legitimate owner but cant remember who they bought it from. Dora in all her wisdom unwittingly issues A COA and the fake becomes the genuine one because POW says so. Where is the protection from that. Im sure all the paper is the same so Whoever registers first is the one who makes theirs legit. i thought the very same thing a while back. then put it down to paranoia on my part. but it does seem scarily feasible. who knows in years to come it could end up like the mess the warhol foundation has to deal with on a daily basis. que rush to register prints. i did have a duplicate number shared with one D. Hirst. sorted now mind. |
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howlinjack
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July 2006
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by howlinjack on Oct 2, 2009 14:05:44 GMT 1, Wasn't there a issue with some Laugh now prints which had fake stamps Howlin??
indeed there was snott.
Wasn't there a issue with some Laugh now prints which had fake stamps Howlin?? indeed there was snott. |
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dotdot
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December 2006
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by dotdot on Oct 2, 2009 14:11:25 GMT 1, Wasn't there a issue with some Laugh now prints which had fake stamps Howlin?? indeed there was snott.
fwiw - think you'll find PC will wish to eyeball any LN before issuing at PC COA.
cap - all the paper and all the colours etc - were not afaik the same.
Wasn't there a issue with some Laugh now prints which had fake stamps Howlin?? indeed there was snott. fwiw - think you'll find PC will wish to eyeball any LN before issuing at PC COA. cap - all the paper and all the colours etc - were not afaik the same. |
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howlinjack
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July 2006
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by howlinjack on Oct 2, 2009 14:23:40 GMT 1, fwiw - think you'll find PC will wish to eyeball any LN before issuing at PC COA.
LN was the only print i couldn't get confirmed by email. had take it in and leave it with them. had me worried for a bit.
fwiw - think you'll find PC will wish to eyeball any LN before issuing at PC COA. LN was the only print i couldn't get confirmed by email. had take it in and leave it with them. had me worried for a bit. |
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stickitup
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June 2007
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by stickitup on Oct 2, 2009 14:25:28 GMT 1, i mean i am sure the print is not dodgey, it was bought several years ago for ยฃ125 - hardly a big deal to rob someone for and at the time you could still get banksy soup cans for ยฃ50. My problem thinking about the current system is that I could want to pay for provenance and then find that its impossible to get - so does it mean my print is not worth the going rate. I get the impression PC thought up the idea and then realised there was some flaws in it. If I was to buy a Banksy and do a forgery of it there is the possibility that 2 editions of the same print would be floating about and if I was to pay for another PC certificate the "extra" copy would also have the provenance?
i mean i am sure the print is not dodgey, it was bought several years ago for ยฃ125 - hardly a big deal to rob someone for and at the time you could still get banksy soup cans for ยฃ50. My problem thinking about the current system is that I could want to pay for provenance and then find that its impossible to get - so does it mean my print is not worth the going rate. I get the impression PC thought up the idea and then realised there was some flaws in it. If I was to buy a Banksy and do a forgery of it there is the possibility that 2 editions of the same print would be floating about and if I was to pay for another PC certificate the "extra" copy would also have the provenance?
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silvermyn
Junior Member
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April 2008
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by silvermyn on Oct 2, 2009 14:30:42 GMT 1, i mean i am sure the print is not dodgey, it was bought several years ago for ยฃ125 - hardly a big deal to rob someone for and at the time you could still get banksy soup cans for ยฃ50. My problem thinking about the current system is that I could want to pay for provenance and then find that its impossible to get - so does it mean my print is not worth the going rate. I get the impression PC thought up the idea and then realised there was some flaws in it. If I was to buy a Banksy and do a forgery of it there is the possibility that 2 editions of the same print would be floating about and if I was to pay for another PC certificate the "extra" copy would also have the provenance?
you bought the Hewlett instead of the soup cans... 
i mean i am sure the print is not dodgey, it was bought several years ago for ยฃ125 - hardly a big deal to rob someone for and at the time you could still get banksy soup cans for ยฃ50. My problem thinking about the current system is that I could want to pay for provenance and then find that its impossible to get - so does it mean my print is not worth the going rate. I get the impression PC thought up the idea and then realised there was some flaws in it. If I was to buy a Banksy and do a forgery of it there is the possibility that 2 editions of the same print would be floating about and if I was to pay for another PC certificate the "extra" copy would also have the provenance? you bought the Hewlett instead of the soup cans... |
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howlinjack
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July 2006
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by howlinjack on Oct 2, 2009 14:35:48 GMT 1, 
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cap1one1
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July 2009
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by cap1one1 on Oct 2, 2009 15:40:44 GMT 1, Im not infering that your print is dodgy stickitup, im just pointing out an obvious flaw with the POW system of authenticating prints, and they can eyeball as many prints as they want, it wont do any good, if its on the same paper and the same inks where used for all prints. In the case of the Warhols they had the composition of the paper and ink the prints where done on and the fabric and ink the canvasses where done on in an archive. This many parts per 1000 and so on. With Banksy signed and unsigned or proofs are done on the same composition of paper with the same inks, so how can you tell if yours or mine is A forged, faked, or doctored print.
Im not infering that your print is dodgy stickitup, im just pointing out an obvious flaw with the POW system of authenticating prints, and they can eyeball as many prints as they want, it wont do any good, if its on the same paper and the same inks where used for all prints. In the case of the Warhols they had the composition of the paper and ink the prints where done on and the fabric and ink the canvasses where done on in an archive. This many parts per 1000 and so on. With Banksy signed and unsigned or proofs are done on the same composition of paper with the same inks, so how can you tell if yours or mine is A forged, faked, or doctored print.
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spencerlee
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May 2006
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by spencerlee on Oct 2, 2009 15:58:47 GMT 1, Are many non Banksy prints copied these days? I know people demand COA for everything but are people really knocking out copies of prints that you can get for hundreds as opposed to thousands. Genuine question.
Are many non Banksy prints copied these days? I know people demand COA for everything but are people really knocking out copies of prints that you can get for hundreds as opposed to thousands. Genuine question.
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cap1one1
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July 2009
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by cap1one1 on Oct 2, 2009 16:25:15 GMT 1, I dont know if people are counterfieting prints I suppose it can be done, I mean A blindstamp go to camden lock to get one made, very easily also pest control certificates are not that hard to print up, I suppose the only thing to do is to know who your buying from by reputation, A reputable gallery even though A lot more expensive are probably insured also auction houses guarantee whatever they sell.
I dont know if people are counterfieting prints I suppose it can be done, I mean A blindstamp go to camden lock to get one made, very easily also pest control certificates are not that hard to print up, I suppose the only thing to do is to know who your buying from by reputation, A reputable gallery even though A lot more expensive are probably insured also auction houses guarantee whatever they sell.
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cap1one1
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July 2009
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by cap1one1 on Oct 2, 2009 16:32:48 GMT 1, I was also wondering what kind of liability insurance POW have got if they give A pest control COA to someone and the print turns out to be A fake or tampered with to make it appear signed when only in fact numbered or A proof, has anyone heard of any guarantees they offer with their COAs or is it just another way to put their hand in everybodys pocket after we already paid for our pictures.
I was also wondering what kind of liability insurance POW have got if they give A pest control COA to someone and the print turns out to be A fake or tampered with to make it appear signed when only in fact numbered or A proof, has anyone heard of any guarantees they offer with their COAs or is it just another way to put their hand in everybodys pocket after we already paid for our pictures.
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stickitup
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June 2007
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by stickitup on Oct 2, 2009 20:35:31 GMT 1, cap1one1 no worries I know you are not saying it is dodgey and I have no reason to believe it is, however I have absolutely no way of finding out who I bought it off - unless POW can contact the original buyer and get confirmation from them that they sold it to me. silv & how, well yes at the time I wanted to expand my collection and I wanted a Hewlett, I already had a Banksy (Weston Super Mare @ ยฃ75), the cans at the time I thought weren't that good - and nor did many people as I remember them being up on the site for ages, this really was pre explosion so laugh now but I am not sure there aren't a hundreds of people on here looked at the banksys and passed up on getting several for next to nothing. just one of those things, I mean I bumped into rob in the street and could have asked him to paint me something - another opportunity gone and one more rare than getting any of his prints.
cap1one1 no worries I know you are not saying it is dodgey and I have no reason to believe it is, however I have absolutely no way of finding out who I bought it off - unless POW can contact the original buyer and get confirmation from them that they sold it to me. silv & how, well yes at the time I wanted to expand my collection and I wanted a Hewlett, I already had a Banksy (Weston Super Mare @ ยฃ75), the cans at the time I thought weren't that good - and nor did many people as I remember them being up on the site for ages, this really was pre explosion so laugh now but I am not sure there aren't a hundreds of people on here looked at the banksys and passed up on getting several for next to nothing. just one of those things, I mean I bumped into rob in the street and could have asked him to paint me something - another opportunity gone and one more rare than getting any of his prints.
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stickitup
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June 2007
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by stickitup on Oct 5, 2009 11:24:52 GMT 1, so as it goes pow don't offer COA for any prints other than Banksys, however they will verify the print and reregister it in my name if I take it along to them. can't say fairer than that.
so as it goes pow don't offer COA for any prints other than Banksys, however they will verify the print and reregister it in my name if I take it along to them. can't say fairer than that.
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daddychaps
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March 2008
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by daddychaps on Oct 5, 2009 13:45:28 GMT 1, More advice please... I have recently bought an older signed Banksy with Pest Control certification... should i now contact POW and say i own it now?
More advice please... I have recently bought an older signed Banksy with Pest Control certification... should i now contact POW and say i own it now?
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howlinjack
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July 2006
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by howlinjack on Oct 5, 2009 13:54:38 GMT 1, i would. they'll update their database with your details
i would. they'll update their database with your details
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Deleted
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January 1970
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by Deleted on Oct 5, 2009 14:07:07 GMT 1, More advice please... I have recently bought an older signed Banksy with Pest Control certification... should i now contact POW and say i own it now?
i would
More advice please... I have recently bought an older signed Banksy with Pest Control certification... should i now contact POW and say i own it now? i would |
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Heavyconsumer
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February 2008
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by Heavyconsumer on Oct 5, 2009 14:18:03 GMT 1, More advice please... I have recently bought an older signed Banksy with Pest Control certification... should i now contact POW and say i own it now?
Keeping an up to date ownership database was one of the primary reasons for the creation of PCO. Thus it's worthwhile for all people who buy prints to register them with PCO or failing that POW.
More advice please... I have recently bought an older signed Banksy with Pest Control certification... should i now contact POW and say i own it now? Keeping an up to date ownership database was one of the primary reasons for the creation of PCO. Thus it's worthwhile for all people who buy prints to register them with PCO or failing that POW. |
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daddychaps
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March 2008
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PROVING YOU ARE THE OWNER, by daddychaps on Oct 5, 2009 16:00:00 GMT 1, Cheers guys. Sent an email off to Dora...
Cheers guys. Sent an email off to Dora...
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