Ruggs
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January 2008
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scandi
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December 2009
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by scandi on Jan 17, 2010 21:08:06 GMT 1, Thanks for posting that. An interesting read for sure.
Thanks for posting that. An interesting read for sure.
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DOH
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July 2009
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by DOH on Jan 17, 2010 21:25:37 GMT 1, Yes very interesting article, there was an excellent Imagine/Alan Yentob documentary on this exact topic a few years back.
Yes very interesting article, there was an excellent Imagine/Alan Yentob documentary on this exact topic a few years back.
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lee3
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November 2009
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by lee3 on Jan 17, 2010 21:28:40 GMT 1, Simon's story certainly is legendary as the only work I know of that had both Hughes and Freemont claiming valid and the Foundation stating otherwise. Perhaps Vermin could help his cause.
Simon's story certainly is legendary as the only work I know of that had both Hughes and Freemont claiming valid and the Foundation stating otherwise. Perhaps Vermin could help his cause.
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eyectopus
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June 2008
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by eyectopus on Jan 17, 2010 23:18:25 GMT 1, Yep very interesting and strange.
Yep very interesting and strange.
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Michael Jacob
Artist
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October 2006
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by Michael Jacob on Jan 18, 2010 22:34:23 GMT 1, Great read. Thanks!
Great read. Thanks!
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curiousgeorge
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March 2007
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by curiousgeorge on Jan 19, 2010 0:13:18 GMT 1, Kinda on/off topic
Anyone seen 'who the fcuk is jackson pollock', been a while since ive it but i think his prints were found on it and still no COA.Still offered $2million and later $9million but won't budge, tough old girl!
video.yahoo.com/watch/3683100/10141059
Kinda on/off topic Anyone seen 'who the fcuk is jackson pollock', been a while since ive it but i think his prints were found on it and still no COA.Still offered $2million and later $9million but won't budge, tough old girl! video.yahoo.com/watch/3683100/10141059
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lee3
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November 2009
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by lee3 on Jan 19, 2010 1:22:48 GMT 1, >>>Anyone seen 'who the fcuk is jackson pollock', been a while since ive it but i think his prints were found on it and still no COA<<<
It demonstrates the power and authority any estate/foundation has as their word is all that matters to the market. Also, as its been demonstrated many times over, it's MUCH more difficult to have something deemed authentic if there is any question whatsoever after a catalog raisonee has gone to print. They are the defining catalog of works for any given artist and foundations aren't terribly interested in amendments or supplements. It's a big reason why the Warhol foundation is taking their time doing research and have already reserved a volume at the end (they're only through '69 thus far and '70-73 is due in the next year I believe) for works that were not included on the initial published volumes.
I've got the CR's for a number of artists but the 3 books that make up Warhol paintings and sculpture from '62-69 (which is well over a decade of publishing) are enormous and it boggles my mind to think how much more is to come. And once they finish paintings and sculpture through his death, they plan to try to tackle his commercial drawings from the late 40s on and his fine art drawings through his death. I suspect they will not be finished documenting his works for another 50+ years at this pace.
>>>Anyone seen 'who the fcuk is jackson pollock', been a while since ive it but i think his prints were found on it and still no COA<<<
It demonstrates the power and authority any estate/foundation has as their word is all that matters to the market. Also, as its been demonstrated many times over, it's MUCH more difficult to have something deemed authentic if there is any question whatsoever after a catalog raisonee has gone to print. They are the defining catalog of works for any given artist and foundations aren't terribly interested in amendments or supplements. It's a big reason why the Warhol foundation is taking their time doing research and have already reserved a volume at the end (they're only through '69 thus far and '70-73 is due in the next year I believe) for works that were not included on the initial published volumes.
I've got the CR's for a number of artists but the 3 books that make up Warhol paintings and sculpture from '62-69 (which is well over a decade of publishing) are enormous and it boggles my mind to think how much more is to come. And once they finish paintings and sculpture through his death, they plan to try to tackle his commercial drawings from the late 40s on and his fine art drawings through his death. I suspect they will not be finished documenting his works for another 50+ years at this pace.
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brun
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December 2007
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by brun on Jan 19, 2010 2:38:12 GMT 1, yes but hey who f@ck reads the daily mail / sunday on here ? you are being brain washed ! stop ranting about immigrants !
yes but hey who f@ck reads the daily mail / sunday on here ? you are being brain washed ! stop ranting about immigrants !
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brun
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December 2007
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by brun on Jan 19, 2010 2:39:10 GMT 1, but nice article all the same .........
but nice article all the same .........
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aspyhole
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November 2007
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by aspyhole on Jan 19, 2010 2:46:02 GMT 1, Yes, interesting, and rather scary too. To think that a couple of people on a committee can have such an impact on the art world in general...
A
Yes, interesting, and rather scary too. To think that a couple of people on a committee can have such an impact on the art world in general...
A
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Deleted
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January 1970
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 14:07:46 GMT 1, There is a film about this, it was on UK TV a few years ago, I think there was a man how was a friend of Warhol and he was given a gift by him, and these people would not authenticate his canvas. i think it was worth $10,00000 + with and jack without.
There is a film about this, it was on UK TV a few years ago, I think there was a man how was a friend of Warhol and he was given a gift by him, and these people would not authenticate his canvas. i think it was worth $10,00000 + with and jack without.
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digitalkid
Junior Member
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October 2008
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by digitalkid on Jan 19, 2010 14:20:25 GMT 1, mail on sunday wtf?
edit: just read it and no surprise the c**t at the daily mail are slow on old news
mail on sunday wtf?
edit: just read it and no surprise the c**t at the daily mail are slow on old news
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curiousgeorge
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March 2007
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by curiousgeorge on Jan 19, 2010 14:30:26 GMT 1, There is a film about this, it was on UK TV a few years ago, I think there was a man how was a friend of Warhol and he was given a gift by him, and these people would not authenticate his canvas. i think it was worth $10,00000 + with and jack without.
Link legwork from thugloving
There is a film about this, it was on UK TV a few years ago, I think there was a man how was a friend of Warhol and he was given a gift by him, and these people would not authenticate his canvas. i think it was worth $10,00000 + with and jack without. Link legwork from thugloving
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mj
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October 2007
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by mj on Jan 19, 2010 16:07:00 GMT 1, Thanks for the videos curiousgeorge that was very interesting, feel sorry for the poor guy. Do you guys think in years to come we will have problems with those early Banksy works done and printed by Eine ? At the moment POW are not doing any authentication in gifts [prints] given to artist who helped at Cans or for street works, will this change in the future?
Thanks for the videos curiousgeorge that was very interesting, feel sorry for the poor guy. Do you guys think in years to come we will have problems with those early Banksy works done and printed by Eine ? At the moment POW are not doing any authentication in gifts [prints] given to artist who helped at Cans or for street works, will this change in the future?
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lee3
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November 2009
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by lee3 on Jan 19, 2010 17:23:32 GMT 1, >>>Do you guys think in years to come we will have problems with those early Banksy works done and printed by Eine ? At the moment POW are not doing any authentication in gifts [prints] given to artist who helped at Cans or for street works, will this change in the future? <<<
I suppose that depensds what you mean by problem. PC has been crystal clear with what they will and will not issue a COA for generally speaking. The more clarity on this issue while an artist is living, the easier it will be for future generations to deal after we're all long and gone. I would not hold my breath for PC to reverse course on anything with your comment "at the moment." Part of their job is to eliminate confusion and bring clarity for all to understand. Therefore, I would be stunned to see them reverse course on any of their previous edicts.
>>>Do you guys think in years to come we will have problems with those early Banksy works done and printed by Eine ? At the moment POW are not doing any authentication in gifts [prints] given to artist who helped at Cans or for street works, will this change in the future? <<<
I suppose that depensds what you mean by problem. PC has been crystal clear with what they will and will not issue a COA for generally speaking. The more clarity on this issue while an artist is living, the easier it will be for future generations to deal after we're all long and gone. I would not hold my breath for PC to reverse course on anything with your comment "at the moment." Part of their job is to eliminate confusion and bring clarity for all to understand. Therefore, I would be stunned to see them reverse course on any of their previous edicts.
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by silvermyn on Jan 19, 2010 17:54:24 GMT 1, Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.
Refusing to give a COA (as POW do) or issuing a public finding of the authentication of a piece is one thing. But surely marking/damaging private property in this way cannot be justified. IMO where there is clear evidence of fraudulent behaviour by the owner or there is an intention to deceive then the police should be involved rather than the Foundation taking matters into their own hands.
I do hope Joe Simon wins his case
Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone. Refusing to give a COA (as POW do) or issuing a public finding of the authentication of a piece is one thing. But surely marking/damaging private property in this way cannot be justified. IMO where there is clear evidence of fraudulent behaviour by the owner or there is an intention to deceive then the police should be involved rather than the Foundation taking matters into their own hands. I do hope Joe Simon wins his case
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lee3
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November 2009
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by lee3 on Jan 19, 2010 18:30:51 GMT 1, >>>>Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.<<<<<
It's a disclosure statement on the authentication form which Simon signed when he submitted his painting. The Foundation stated (at the time, not sure if they still do) that anything that is denied will be stamped on the reverse. I recall reading many years ago that this stamp even showed through to the front of the canvas if you looked close enough which adds further insult to injury. Simon can't sue for that as he willingly entered that process but he can and is suing for the other obvious reasons. Fwiw, most people I discussed this with years ago felt he had little chance of winning.
>>>>Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.<<<<<
It's a disclosure statement on the authentication form which Simon signed when he submitted his painting. The Foundation stated (at the time, not sure if they still do) that anything that is denied will be stamped on the reverse. I recall reading many years ago that this stamp even showed through to the front of the canvas if you looked close enough which adds further insult to injury. Simon can't sue for that as he willingly entered that process but he can and is suing for the other obvious reasons. Fwiw, most people I discussed this with years ago felt he had little chance of winning.
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Damien
Junior Member
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July 2008
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by Damien on Jan 19, 2010 23:53:27 GMT 1, people always getting higher value when they die.how are people going to know if banky dies though if nobody knows who he is though, they /he could just keep on releasing paintings
people always getting higher value when they die.how are people going to know if banky dies though if nobody knows who he is though, they /he could just keep on releasing paintings
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silvermyn
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April 2008
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by silvermyn on Jan 20, 2010 10:26:46 GMT 1, >>>>Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.<<<<< It's a disclosure statement on the authentication form which Simon signed when he submitted his painting. The Foundation stated (at the time, not sure if they still do) that anything that is denied will be stamped on the reverse. I recall reading many years ago that this stamp even showed through to the front of the canvas if you looked close enough which adds further insult to injury. Simon can't sue for that as he willingly entered that process but he can and is suing for the other obvious reasons. Fwiw, most people I discussed this with years ago felt he had little chance of winning.
Thanks for clarifying lee3. Figured there would be some sort of terms and conditions allowing it somewhere allong the application process. Be careful what you sign up for I guess.
>>>>Having seen the pictures in the artilce I was a bit surpised to see that the Foundation's authentication board felt they had the right to stamp the back of a piece of work they did not own. Twice! You would'd imagine they would need the owners permission to do that. It's tantamount to criminal damage and I'd be suing them for that alone.<<<<< It's a disclosure statement on the authentication form which Simon signed when he submitted his painting. The Foundation stated (at the time, not sure if they still do) that anything that is denied will be stamped on the reverse. I recall reading many years ago that this stamp even showed through to the front of the canvas if you looked close enough which adds further insult to injury. Simon can't sue for that as he willingly entered that process but he can and is suing for the other obvious reasons. Fwiw, most people I discussed this with years ago felt he had little chance of winning. Thanks for clarifying lee3. Figured there would be some sort of terms and conditions allowing it somewhere allong the application process. Be careful what you sign up for I guess.
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lifeonwalls
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September 2007
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When is a Warhol not a Warhol? Interesting article, by lifeonwalls on Jan 20, 2010 15:04:58 GMT 1, Good read, thanks for posting.
Good read, thanks for posting.
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