skylarkin
New Member
Posts โข 283
Likes โข 19
June 2006
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Who holds copyright...?, by skylarkin on Aug 18, 2009 22:47:51 GMT 1, I have been talking to a local framer/art shop today and one of the things he does is to purchase an original piece from the artist, then prints off some copies and sells them.
Initially I was surprised by this. Would you need to get copyright/permission to do this from the artist, or does the owner of the original have the right to do limited editions of that piece?
I think I know the answer but thought I would through it out there,as most know more than I on such things...
S
I have been talking to a local framer/art shop today and one of the things he does is to purchase an original piece from the artist, then prints off some copies and sells them.
Initially I was surprised by this. Would you need to get copyright/permission to do this from the artist, or does the owner of the original have the right to do limited editions of that piece?
I think I know the answer but thought I would through it out there,as most know more than I on such things...
S
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bullet
Blank Rank
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January 2013
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Who holds copyright...?, by bullet on Aug 18, 2009 23:17:32 GMT 1, think its quite common, banksy does it all the time 
think its quite common, banksy does it all the time |
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Who holds copyright...?, by Happy Shopper on Aug 18, 2009 23:23:59 GMT 1, You can own the original, but not the rights to use the image.
Photography certainly works like that... Design and Art is the same I think.
You can own the original, but not the rights to use the image.
Photography certainly works like that... Design and Art is the same I think.
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nimsu
New Member
Posts โข 225
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August 2009
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Who holds copyright...?, by nimsu on Aug 18, 2009 23:26:32 GMT 1, I have been talking to a local framer/art shop today and one of the things he does is to purchase an original piece from the artist, then prints off some copies and sells them. Initially I was surprised by this. Would you need to get copyright/permission to do this from the artist, or does the owner of the original have the right to do limited editions of that piece? I think I know the answer but thought I would through it out there,as most know more than I on such things... S
That seems crazy illegal..
I have been talking to a local framer/art shop today and one of the things he does is to purchase an original piece from the artist, then prints off some copies and sells them. Initially I was surprised by this. Would you need to get copyright/permission to do this from the artist, or does the owner of the original have the right to do limited editions of that piece? I think I know the answer but thought I would through it out there,as most know more than I on such things... S That seems crazy illegal.. |
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Who holds copyright...?, by Oliver Winconek on Aug 19, 2009 8:38:59 GMT 1, Completely illegal as far as I am aware, not to mention damn bad practice.
Completely illegal as far as I am aware, not to mention damn bad practice.
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Art-el
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,708
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May 2006
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Who holds copyright...?, by Art-el on Aug 19, 2009 9:39:46 GMT 1, Absolutely disgraceful behavior. Illegal & Very Wrong.
How would people feel if they were the artist?
Absolutely disgraceful behavior. Illegal & Very Wrong.
How would people feel if they were the artist?
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skylarkin
New Member
Posts โข 283
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June 2006
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Who holds copyright...?, by skylarkin on Aug 19, 2009 9:51:57 GMT 1, Absolutely disgraceful behavior. Illegal & Very Wrong. How would people feel if they were the artist?
Think i need to quantify what I have said. I dont believe for a moment that the person doing this is acting illegally. Im sure that he has the artists permission to do this. But having spoken to him I asked myself the question as to who actually owns the copyright of art?
Large exhibition halls, art insitutions and the like have been known to trawl through places like ebay looking for art that is on their books, collections ect and will issue a cease and desist order if they think that there image is being used without permission. I wondered how they got the permission to do this in the first place? Would the estate of a famous artist give them permission? or have they purchased the rights to act on behalf of the artist?
It was noted on here recently that banksy even copyrighted his name (or something to this effect) so that he actually owned the images. I was just intreguied as to how this process worked.
Sorry to get some hot under the collar, but it may go to show its a grey area...
Absolutely disgraceful behavior. Illegal & Very Wrong. How would people feel if they were the artist? Think i need to quantify what I have said. I dont believe for a moment that the person doing this is acting illegally. Im sure that he has the artists permission to do this. But having spoken to him I asked myself the question as to who actually owns the copyright of art? Large exhibition halls, art insitutions and the like have been known to trawl through places like ebay looking for art that is on their books, collections ect and will issue a cease and desist order if they think that there image is being used without permission. I wondered how they got the permission to do this in the first place? Would the estate of a famous artist give them permission? or have they purchased the rights to act on behalf of the artist? It was noted on here recently that banksy even copyrighted his name (or something to this effect) so that he actually owned the images. I was just intreguied as to how this process worked. Sorry to get some hot under the collar, but it may go to show its a grey area... |
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Who holds copyright...?, by lumbo on Aug 19, 2009 10:05:58 GMT 1, Artist always holds copyright to an image, whether it's been reproduced as a print, or even for the sold original. (Just ask Cartian!)
Only exception is if a piece has been produced as a commission by an institution, and then they would own the image. Have a look on the DACS website.
In essence, we're all infringing on copyright whenever we buy and sell on art (up to a certain amount though) without paying a percentage on to the artist through Artist Resale Rights. The artist themselves has to become a member and apply for this though, then like Hirst did, you can send the heavies in...
Artist always holds copyright to an image, whether it's been reproduced as a print, or even for the sold original. (Just ask Cartian!)
Only exception is if a piece has been produced as a commission by an institution, and then they would own the image. Have a look on the DACS website.
In essence, we're all infringing on copyright whenever we buy and sell on art (up to a certain amount though) without paying a percentage on to the artist through Artist Resale Rights. The artist themselves has to become a member and apply for this though, then like Hirst did, you can send the heavies in...
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Who holds copyright...?, by schlomo on Aug 19, 2009 10:21:55 GMT 1, Artist resale rights only apply in Europe if you sell for over 1000 euros and a gallery is involved. There are no artist resale rights for sales between private individuals.
Artist resale rights only apply in Europe if you sell for over 1000 euros and a gallery is involved. There are no artist resale rights for sales between private individuals.
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Who holds copyright...?, by lumbo on Aug 19, 2009 10:28:50 GMT 1, That's why I said infringing, instead of breaking - I think you'll find it does concern buying and selling between private buyers though - otherwise what would be the point in having it in place?
That's why I said infringing, instead of breaking - I think you'll find it does concern buying and selling between private buyers though - otherwise what would be the point in having it in place?
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Who holds copyright...?, by wizzy on Aug 19, 2009 10:30:14 GMT 1, " Sales between private individuals and between an individual and a museum don't qualify for Artist's Resale Rights."
" Sales between private individuals and between an individual and a museum don't qualify for Artist's Resale Rights."
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Who holds copyright...?, by schlomo on Aug 19, 2009 10:31:57 GMT 1, copied from the page Wiz links to....
Artist's Resale Right doesn't apply to be a painting you're selling for the first time (well, you get money from that anyway!). Secondly, the artwork must be sold for more than 1,000 euros. Thirdly, there must be a gallery, dealer, auction house, or agent involved in the sale. Sales between private individuals and between an individual and a museum don't qualify for Artist's Resale Rights. Oh, and you still need to be alive and the painting still your copyright to get Artist's Resale Right.
copied from the page Wiz links to....
Artist's Resale Right doesn't apply to be a painting you're selling for the first time (well, you get money from that anyway!). Secondly, the artwork must be sold for more than 1,000 euros. Thirdly, there must be a gallery, dealer, auction house, or agent involved in the sale. Sales between private individuals and between an individual and a museum don't qualify for Artist's Resale Rights. Oh, and you still need to be alive and the painting still your copyright to get Artist's Resale Right.
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Who holds copyright...?, by lumbo on Aug 19, 2009 10:34:29 GMT 1, Hardly worth bothering is it!
Hardly worth bothering is it!
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Who holds copyright...?, by schlomo on Aug 19, 2009 10:34:46 GMT 1, copied from the page you just linked to...
When does the resale right apply?
* When art work is sold for โฌ1000 (approx ยฃ750) or more
* When art work is sold on the secondary market
* When a gallery, dealer, auction house or agent is involved in the sale. The right does not apply when the sale occurs between two private individuals
* When the artist is a national of an EEA country or certain other countries (see list of countries, which you can download from this page)
I just worked out how to highlight text! exciting times....
copied from the page you just linked to...
When does the resale right apply?
* When art work is sold for โฌ1000 (approx ยฃ750) or more
* When art work is sold on the secondary market
* When a gallery, dealer, auction house or agent is involved in the sale. The right does not apply when the sale occurs between two private individuals
* When the artist is a national of an EEA country or certain other countries (see list of countries, which you can download from this page)
I just worked out how to highlight text! exciting times....
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Who holds copyright...?, by lumbo on Aug 19, 2009 10:40:16 GMT 1, So in answer to your question Skylarkin, it's heinously wrong unless he has the artist's permission, but the artist probably couldn't do a thing about it unless he's all of the above (and has won the Turner Prize)
So in answer to your question Skylarkin, it's heinously wrong unless he has the artist's permission, but the artist probably couldn't do a thing about it unless he's all of the above (and has won the Turner Prize) |
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curiousgeorge
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,833
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March 2007
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Who holds copyright...?, by curiousgeorge on Aug 19, 2009 12:09:37 GMT 1, Seems to me the Framer is cutting corners (see what i just did), with stock. My next logical thought would be where else does he cut corners??
Would it be wrong to make just one copy for yourself? I know the same rules kind of apply but as no money is changing hands, it's all about the image rather than making money.
Seems to me the Framer is cutting corners (see what i just did), with stock. My next logical thought would be where else does he cut corners??
Would it be wrong to make just one copy for yourself? I know the same rules kind of apply but as no money is changing hands, it's all about the image rather than making money.
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Who holds copyright...?, by lumbo on Aug 19, 2009 12:32:27 GMT 1, Worrying though, thinking stuff like this goes on.
Who knows what happens to your prints when you leave them with the framer... any chance you'll divulge who it is, so I can avoid
Worrying though, thinking stuff like this goes on. Who knows what happens to your prints when you leave them with the framer... any chance you'll divulge who it is, so I can avoid |
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Who holds copyright...?, by schlomo on Aug 19, 2009 12:36:36 GMT 1, funny enough when i took nola to get framed i started worrying about whether it would be easy for the guy to make a copy and frame that, keeping the actual print to himself. I'd be none the wiser if he did it well, which i'm sure he could do if he wanted. I ended up popping in every day to see how it was going!
funny enough when i took nola to get framed i started worrying about whether it would be easy for the guy to make a copy and frame that, keeping the actual print to himself. I'd be none the wiser if he did it well, which i'm sure he could do if he wanted. I ended up popping in every day to see how it was going!
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curiousgeorge
Junior Member
Posts โข 5,833
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March 2007
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Who holds copyright...?, by curiousgeorge on Aug 19, 2009 12:39:30 GMT 1, Cheap repro's = easy
Making an exact copy is totally different and would guess neigh on impossible for 99.9% of framers
Cheap repro's = easy
Making an exact copy is totally different and would guess neigh on impossible for 99.9% of framers
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Who holds copyright...?, by lumbo on Aug 19, 2009 12:45:07 GMT 1, funny enough when i took nola to get framed i started worrying about whether it would be easy for the guy to make a copy and frame that, keeping the actual print to himself. I'd be none the wiser if he did it well, which i'm sure he could do if he wanted. I ended up popping in every day to see how it was going!
Yeah, once your print is framed and taped up, you're not likely to open it back up again unless you sell or reframe it....
Hang on.... anyone want their Donut framed - I'll do it ;D
funny enough when i took nola to get framed i started worrying about whether it would be easy for the guy to make a copy and frame that, keeping the actual print to himself. I'd be none the wiser if he did it well, which i'm sure he could do if he wanted. I ended up popping in every day to see how it was going! Yeah, once your print is framed and taped up, you're not likely to open it back up again unless you sell or reframe it.... Hang on.... anyone want their Donut framed - I'll do it ;D |
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shaunyboy
New Member
Posts โข 559
Likes โข 38
March 2008
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Who holds copyright...?, by shaunyboy on Aug 19, 2009 12:54:40 GMT 1, hmmm, its fascinating stuff this copyright.
So, if I take a photo of an original piece of artwork I own and use the photo as an avatar, for example, am I breaking copyright?
Oh yeah, I mean an original piece of artwork done by someone else not me. I'm rubbish.
hmmm, its fascinating stuff this copyright.
So, if I take a photo of an original piece of artwork I own and use the photo as an avatar, for example, am I breaking copyright?
Oh yeah, I mean an original piece of artwork done by someone else not me. I'm rubbish.
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Who holds copyright...?, by schlomo on Aug 19, 2009 12:59:18 GMT 1, yep, in theory you could take yourself to court and sue yourself. be a bugger finding a lawyer to represent you against you whilst keeping impartial tho fella.....
yep, in theory you could take yourself to court and sue yourself. be a bugger finding a lawyer to represent you against you whilst keeping impartial tho fella.....
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Who holds copyright...?, by lumbo on Aug 19, 2009 13:05:29 GMT 1, hmmm, its fascinating stuff this copyright. So, if I take a photo of an original piece of artwork I own and use the photo as an avatar, for example, am I breaking copyright?
Think it only applies if you sell the work on, but I'd love to know how it works with all of these street art coffee table books who use photos of artists work quite obviously without permission. Bit of a grey area I think, if it's in the public domain so to speak, and I doubt most of these guys want to take of their balaclavas and go to court.
hmmm, its fascinating stuff this copyright. So, if I take a photo of an original piece of artwork I own and use the photo as an avatar, for example, am I breaking copyright? Think it only applies if you sell the work on, but I'd love to know how it works with all of these street art coffee table books who use photos of artists work quite obviously without permission. Bit of a grey area I think, if it's in the public domain so to speak, and I doubt most of these guys want to take of their balaclavas and go to court. |
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shaunyboy
New Member
Posts โข 559
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March 2008
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Who holds copyright...?, by shaunyboy on Aug 19, 2009 13:28:07 GMT 1, yep, in theory you could take yourself to court and sue yourself. be a bugger finding a lawyer to represent you against you whilst keeping impartial tho fella.....
Yes, but I own the artwork and not the copyright. I think the artist owns the copyright to it.
Or I'm talking balls as usual.
yep, in theory you could take yourself to court and sue yourself. be a bugger finding a lawyer to represent you against you whilst keeping impartial tho fella..... Yes, but I own the artwork and not the copyright. I think the artist owns the copyright to it. Or I'm talking balls as usual. |
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Who holds copyright...?, by rosstierney on Aug 19, 2009 14:44:31 GMT 1, if you own an original, in theory you could offer to buy the copyright from the artist & if successful, release a limited edition print. if your intentions were not set out from the start, the artist would eventually figure them out & may or may not decline based on his own or representation's feelings.
anyone fancy chipping in to make adam neate an offer? all we would need is for a member to loan us their og so a digital source could be created & a batch of hahnemuhle german etching paper too ;D
if you own an original, in theory you could offer to buy the copyright from the artist & if successful, release a limited edition print. if your intentions were not set out from the start, the artist would eventually figure them out & may or may not decline based on his own or representation's feelings.
anyone fancy chipping in to make adam neate an offer? all we would need is for a member to loan us their og so a digital source could be created & a batch of hahnemuhle german etching paper too ;D
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Who holds copyright...?, by schlomo on Aug 19, 2009 15:02:00 GMT 1, Sorry Shauny, got the wrong end of the stick there, i thought you were talking about making your own work and using that as an avatar without asking yourself first. Got confused...... apologies.
The photo question is a very grey area, as in theory it is your photo, not the artists, even tho the subject is their art. It would be interesting to hear from an artist who uses photography as their medium....
Sorry Shauny, got the wrong end of the stick there, i thought you were talking about making your own work and using that as an avatar without asking yourself first. Got confused...... apologies.
The photo question is a very grey area, as in theory it is your photo, not the artists, even tho the subject is their art. It would be interesting to hear from an artist who uses photography as their medium....
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Nico
New Member
Posts โข 590
Likes โข 32
July 2009
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Who holds copyright...?, by Nico on Aug 19, 2009 15:07:00 GMT 1, Sorry Shauny, got the wrong end of the stick there, i thought you were talking about making your own work and using that as an avatar without asking yourself first. Got confused...... apologies. The photo question is a very grey area, as in theory it is your photo, not the artists, even tho the subject is their art. It would be interesting to hear from an artist who uses photography as their medium....
I'm not sure that's really true either...a scan is a photo...so if I follow what you say, if I scan a print then because it's my photo it does not infringe copyright. Not really sure about that! If you sell or use a picture of an artwork, it's definitely wrong.
Sorry Shauny, got the wrong end of the stick there, i thought you were talking about making your own work and using that as an avatar without asking yourself first. Got confused...... apologies. The photo question is a very grey area, as in theory it is your photo, not the artists, even tho the subject is their art. It would be interesting to hear from an artist who uses photography as their medium.... I'm not sure that's really true either...a scan is a photo...so if I follow what you say, if I scan a print then because it's my photo it does not infringe copyright. Not really sure about that! If you sell or use a picture of an artwork, it's definitely wrong. |
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