skylarkin
New Member
Posts • 283
Likes • 19
June 2006
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by skylarkin on Aug 18, 2009 22:25:14 GMT 1, Hi All. I've just read the Luke Dixon generated thread "£30-45 portraits and a favour". I thought that I'd add my penneth worth. I bought and paid for 6 Originals by an Artist on this Forum approx September last year. I have had nothing but excuses since.
I have to ask, as loads of people are giving the artists some beef, but why would you fork out 6 x £? for art that you have not seen or is yet created?
Shirley even with the best will in the world, you would want to see before you bought? Now i know its condercending to artists to say that they are notoriously bohemian, but they are, hence they are artists....mate give me 6 x£? and I too might forget about your work for a month or 8 whilst I find my muse.
I dont care if your Banksy himself, you aint getting a penny til I get to see it up close and personal.
Im sorry but I think its buyer beware...
Hi All. I've just read the Luke Dixon generated thread "£30-45 portraits and a favour". I thought that I'd add my penneth worth. I bought and paid for 6 Originals by an Artist on this Forum approx September last year. I have had nothing but excuses since. I have to ask, as loads of people are giving the artists some beef, but why would you fork out 6 x £? for art that you have not seen or is yet created? Shirley even with the best will in the world, you would want to see before you bought? Now i know its condercending to artists to say that they are notoriously bohemian, but they are, hence they are artists....mate give me 6 x£? and I too might forget about your work for a month or 8 whilst I find my muse. I dont care if your Banksy himself, you aint getting a penny til I get to see it up close and personal. Im sorry but I think its buyer beware...
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by Daniel Silk on Aug 18, 2009 22:30:44 GMT 1, Yeah, I think I would be the same
Even if it was a commission, I would not be paying them before I had even seen the piece ok pay for the cost of materials if the Artists a bit short of cash, but not the full amount.
Yeah, I think I would be the same Even if it was a commission, I would not be paying them before I had even seen the piece ok pay for the cost of materials if the Artists a bit short of cash, but not the full amount.
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by hero on Aug 18, 2009 23:16:28 GMT 1, i had to spend a long time getting mine, silky kept saying that there were 'criteria that needed to be filled' he never told me what these criteria were, but they stopped me getting a red star for about 3 months...so i think there are some procedures in place artists do also get stung, out of the 4 shows i have been a part of 1 has had work stolen and i have subsequently been snubbed by that gallery, who told me in december that they would put my work on their site...i am still waiting, they still have the works. i am also waiting on payment from another show which was nearly 6 months ago, but i will not go into that one, as i feel the courts may need to sort that one out Sorry for your troubles Hero (hope you get paid naturally), but none of this is very relevant imo except your 1st line or 2. I don't mean to be a p*ick, but an artist may lose a few hours of their time and a few quid in materials for something a member might pay let's say between £30-130 for. Ultimately artists produce art (by definition)! That's what they do, regardless of whether someone's buying it or not. Artists with just a year or two or a few years experience, producing art to order is a new concept for me and as a stand alone model it really doesn't work imho. Either you're an artist or your not, but being one doesn't and shouldn't guarantee a living imo. There are loads of talented artists out there who struggle to sell their work (they're a dime a dozen, especially these days). Customers are an honour that some of you seem to appreciate more than others (no fingers pointed your way of course, you seem a nice fella and noone's ever complained about you to my knowledge). People sending their money and losing it, don't want to hear about artists getting knocked, and that isn't their problem or the subject of this thread. Personally I feel the answer might be to have a code of conduct for artists, based on that red star they receive...... And I think the best way to go about that, is for members to make serious suggestions as to what they think should be expected of artists or people offering services within the forum e.g. (for instance) Artists not being obliged to sell, but being obligated to honour promises after accepting money for works. Or perhaps not asking for more than 50% of the value (or up to a fixed cap) before completing and photographing the piece etc etc.... Let's see what sort of ideas people have instead of just complaining about it and perhaps give admin something to work with. It's easy to find fault people, so if you really want to improve the system, throw your ideas into the ring and maybe some of them will come to fruition or lead to positive change.
i have to say i agree with you...i love making art and coming up with new ideas for pieces etc, but still, the funds run low, and you have someone jerking you around with some story that is more see through than a slag's top, it makes it very hard to become enthusiastic and to actually afford the materials (they aint cheep you know!) , i also know of galleries getting done over as well...i think there should be an authority looking over the art market really, from now on, any gallery work i do i will be issuing with a contract about payments etc.
hopefully i should have a new show coming up after september, so keep your eyes peeled, and id like to try and sell a few bits to raise some cash for supplies as i cant see them coming from the 'proper channels' unless i put johnny law up their arses
i had to spend a long time getting mine, silky kept saying that there were 'criteria that needed to be filled' he never told me what these criteria were, but they stopped me getting a red star for about 3 months...so i think there are some procedures in place artists do also get stung, out of the 4 shows i have been a part of 1 has had work stolen and i have subsequently been snubbed by that gallery, who told me in december that they would put my work on their site...i am still waiting, they still have the works. i am also waiting on payment from another show which was nearly 6 months ago, but i will not go into that one, as i feel the courts may need to sort that one out Sorry for your troubles Hero (hope you get paid naturally), but none of this is very relevant imo except your 1st line or 2. I don't mean to be a p*ick, but an artist may lose a few hours of their time and a few quid in materials for something a member might pay let's say between £30-130 for. Ultimately artists produce art (by definition)! That's what they do, regardless of whether someone's buying it or not. Artists with just a year or two or a few years experience, producing art to order is a new concept for me and as a stand alone model it really doesn't work imho. Either you're an artist or your not, but being one doesn't and shouldn't guarantee a living imo. There are loads of talented artists out there who struggle to sell their work (they're a dime a dozen, especially these days). Customers are an honour that some of you seem to appreciate more than others (no fingers pointed your way of course, you seem a nice fella and noone's ever complained about you to my knowledge). People sending their money and losing it, don't want to hear about artists getting knocked, and that isn't their problem or the subject of this thread. Personally I feel the answer might be to have a code of conduct for artists, based on that red star they receive...... And I think the best way to go about that, is for members to make serious suggestions as to what they think should be expected of artists or people offering services within the forum e.g. (for instance) Artists not being obliged to sell, but being obligated to honour promises after accepting money for works. Or perhaps not asking for more than 50% of the value (or up to a fixed cap) before completing and photographing the piece etc etc.... Let's see what sort of ideas people have instead of just complaining about it and perhaps give admin something to work with. It's easy to find fault people, so if you really want to improve the system, throw your ideas into the ring and maybe some of them will come to fruition or lead to positive change. i have to say i agree with you...i love making art and coming up with new ideas for pieces etc, but still, the funds run low, and you have someone jerking you around with some story that is more see through than a slag's top, it makes it very hard to become enthusiastic and to actually afford the materials (they aint cheep you know!) , i also know of galleries getting done over as well...i think there should be an authority looking over the art market really, from now on, any gallery work i do i will be issuing with a contract about payments etc. hopefully i should have a new show coming up after september, so keep your eyes peeled, and id like to try and sell a few bits to raise some cash for supplies as i cant see them coming from the 'proper channels' unless i put johnny law up their arses
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
Posts • 4,974
Likes • 5
February 2008
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by Heavyconsumer on Aug 19, 2009 0:47:24 GMT 1, I don't mean to be a p*ick, but an artist may lose a few hours of their time and a few quid in materials for something a member might pay let's say between £30-130 for. Just a few hours and materials lost! Are you having a laugh? Is that what art is worth?
Bottom line - yes! In terms of actual costs to an artist, it's a question of the resources used to produce the piece (on a practical level), so time and money/materials. What else can you measure? We're talking about members sending money to a stranger to produce something to their tastes, before they've even seen it (as it doesn't exist yet). And in 90% of these cases, the artists in question aren't even remotely established. I think there's a problem with that scenario and that people should think twice about sending their money for artwork that hasn't yet been produced.
If an artist has had gallery representation for a while, has at least a few years of work behind them and is consistently selling their work, I think you're odds on to have a good experience everytime. If they aren't in this category, I think you need to be very sensible in dealing with them. I think it's a vital part of this community to support young artists, but that doesn't mean send your money into a black hole for art which doesn't exist yet. If an artist can't spring for the materials, a small deposit is one thing, but full payment up front? Not a good idea imo and to be honest I'm a bit surprised artists would even ask for the money like that. I mean what if you don't like the painting??!! It's gotta happen sometimes, right?
I feel that we, as a community, should be able to self regulate and eliminate these issues for ourselves. It's a question of using some common sense imo. I'm not bashing the artists at all. I bought Grafter's 1st release and have bought pieces from several other forum artists, like SPQR (at the time), DOC, Neverwork, Andy Council and have always found them to be top guys to deal with and would recommend that others here consider buying from forum artists too, if they like the work.
We're blessed with some great member artists, established dudes like Guy Denning and Josh Keyes and Jef Aerosol put in appearances and there are a number of exciting up and coming artists in here, some of whom may have long careers as artists ahead of them (fingers crossed . To not take advantage of this and support these guys when they need it most would be a sad indictment of us all imho. So don't think I'm knocking these guys or their contributions - I wish I could produce some of the stuff I see from members here!
I don't mean to be a p*ick, but an artist may lose a few hours of their time and a few quid in materials for something a member might pay let's say between £30-130 for. Just a few hours and materials lost! Are you having a laugh? Is that what art is worth? Bottom line - yes! In terms of actual costs to an artist, it's a question of the resources used to produce the piece (on a practical level), so time and money/materials. What else can you measure? We're talking about members sending money to a stranger to produce something to their tastes, before they've even seen it (as it doesn't exist yet). And in 90% of these cases, the artists in question aren't even remotely established. I think there's a problem with that scenario and that people should think twice about sending their money for artwork that hasn't yet been produced. If an artist has had gallery representation for a while, has at least a few years of work behind them and is consistently selling their work, I think you're odds on to have a good experience everytime. If they aren't in this category, I think you need to be very sensible in dealing with them. I think it's a vital part of this community to support young artists, but that doesn't mean send your money into a black hole for art which doesn't exist yet. If an artist can't spring for the materials, a small deposit is one thing, but full payment up front? Not a good idea imo and to be honest I'm a bit surprised artists would even ask for the money like that. I mean what if you don't like the painting??!! It's gotta happen sometimes, right? I feel that we, as a community, should be able to self regulate and eliminate these issues for ourselves. It's a question of using some common sense imo. I'm not bashing the artists at all. I bought Grafter's 1st release and have bought pieces from several other forum artists, like SPQR (at the time), DOC, Neverwork, Andy Council and have always found them to be top guys to deal with and would recommend that others here consider buying from forum artists too, if they like the work. We're blessed with some great member artists, established dudes like Guy Denning and Josh Keyes and Jef Aerosol put in appearances and there are a number of exciting up and coming artists in here, some of whom may have long careers as artists ahead of them (fingers crossed . To not take advantage of this and support these guys when they need it most would be a sad indictment of us all imho. So don't think I'm knocking these guys or their contributions - I wish I could produce some of the stuff I see from members here!
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Replete
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,631
Likes • 39
March 2008
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by Replete on Aug 19, 2009 1:36:31 GMT 1, I use the 50% upfront and then the remainder upon completion once the client has approved the piece either by photo or in person. I've used this method for 100's of commissions and it works well and I've never had any problems with it as the clients have always paid up.
A prep sketch supplied to the client is a good method so they have some idea of what they'll get and a discussion on previous works they liked/preferred colour schemes etc will aid a good outcome.
A couple of times I've had to make a few changes in the piece to suit the client but that's fine with me as it's their piece after all and I'd want them to be more than happy to hang it in their home/workplace.
Artists should treasure their clients as they value your art enough to pay decent money for it and an artist should be looking to build an ongoing relationship with a client as there's nothing better than word of mouth as a pleased customer and quite often will return to make further purchases.
Also for me it goes beyond commerce as the client owns an extension of myself that I poured a lot of time and love into creating so I feel a bond with those that have purchased and in doing so supported my ongoing need to create.
I think cases like this one and with Luke Dixon were in the small minority so please be dont be put off commissioning artists, just do a bit of ground work if you're unsure and ask around if anyone has had any dealings with the artist and usally if they have a gallery and website and an established body of work you can usually be assured you'll get a good level of service.
I use the 50% upfront and then the remainder upon completion once the client has approved the piece either by photo or in person. I've used this method for 100's of commissions and it works well and I've never had any problems with it as the clients have always paid up.
A prep sketch supplied to the client is a good method so they have some idea of what they'll get and a discussion on previous works they liked/preferred colour schemes etc will aid a good outcome.
A couple of times I've had to make a few changes in the piece to suit the client but that's fine with me as it's their piece after all and I'd want them to be more than happy to hang it in their home/workplace.
Artists should treasure their clients as they value your art enough to pay decent money for it and an artist should be looking to build an ongoing relationship with a client as there's nothing better than word of mouth as a pleased customer and quite often will return to make further purchases.
Also for me it goes beyond commerce as the client owns an extension of myself that I poured a lot of time and love into creating so I feel a bond with those that have purchased and in doing so supported my ongoing need to create.
I think cases like this one and with Luke Dixon were in the small minority so please be dont be put off commissioning artists, just do a bit of ground work if you're unsure and ask around if anyone has had any dealings with the artist and usally if they have a gallery and website and an established body of work you can usually be assured you'll get a good level of service.
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European Bob
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,018
Likes • 340
February 2007
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by European Bob on Aug 19, 2009 1:54:58 GMT 1, from experience i feel once someone has contacted you regarding something unique/special for themselves then its best to put in that bit of extra something to try and give them what they wanted and that bit extra. If they have already paid then i would make it a priority to have the work finished asap; but would normally agree on a timescale then show the work in the hope that they would like it enough to purchase. Agreeing with replete, i think commissions are a great way for people to get what they really would love up on their walls, as my two commissions are both my most prized possessions. And it can also benefit an artist as well, as sometimes others do suggest some great ideas that can progress ones work, so would hope people keep the faith in contacting artists for that something special
from experience i feel once someone has contacted you regarding something unique/special for themselves then its best to put in that bit of extra something to try and give them what they wanted and that bit extra. If they have already paid then i would make it a priority to have the work finished asap; but would normally agree on a timescale then show the work in the hope that they would like it enough to purchase. Agreeing with replete, i think commissions are a great way for people to get what they really would love up on their walls, as my two commissions are both my most prized possessions. And it can also benefit an artist as well, as sometimes others do suggest some great ideas that can progress ones work, so would hope people keep the faith in contacting artists for that something special
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Replete
Artist
Junior Member
Posts • 1,631
Likes • 39
March 2008
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by Replete on Aug 19, 2009 2:01:33 GMT 1, yeah I agree Bob that setting a timescale is important even though most clients say"no rush" it's vital you have an idea of a schedule as to completion and once a deposit is made it becomes a top priority and artists should give some feedback as to the progress of the piece to keep the client in the loop.
yeah I agree Bob that setting a timescale is important even though most clients say"no rush" it's vital you have an idea of a schedule as to completion and once a deposit is made it becomes a top priority and artists should give some feedback as to the progress of the piece to keep the client in the loop.
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junta
New Member
Posts • 443
Likes • 6
June 2009
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by junta on Aug 19, 2009 2:30:34 GMT 1, Thats one problem with the internet, sometimes you can't tell if it's a charlatan with a few hours to kill and an attic full of fumes or someone with proper workspace, abilities and materials. Personally I look forward to doing commissions in the future but I'm just not set up for that now, so I've turned down a handfull of small ones. I guess not everyone would be as honest though and there is the type of lazy **** out there that would take your money and run. Perhaps as a last resort you could seek insight into their personality by examining their work. sometimes you gotta take a business-like approach to it, I've got words like goods& services, customer base and input costs running around my head now but many artists by their nature don't think like that.
caveat emptor please for everyones sake!
Thats one problem with the internet, sometimes you can't tell if it's a charlatan with a few hours to kill and an attic full of fumes or someone with proper workspace, abilities and materials. Personally I look forward to doing commissions in the future but I'm just not set up for that now, so I've turned down a handfull of small ones. I guess not everyone would be as honest though and there is the type of lazy **** out there that would take your money and run. Perhaps as a last resort you could seek insight into their personality by examining their work. sometimes you gotta take a business-like approach to it, I've got words like goods& services, customer base and input costs running around my head now but many artists by their nature don't think like that.
caveat emptor please for everyones sake!
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by robotbad on Aug 19, 2009 8:39:30 GMT 1, It's not just buyers that get stung, us Artists do as well - A few of you will remember a while ago I worked on a D*face cli-che that had been damaged, it belonged to a forum member who will remain anonymous although lets just say you would see him quite often around the festive season. Anyway, I worked on the print, then santa, sorry, sent it back to the guy at my expense. On countless occasions I have been promised payment/artwork in return but have got nothing, obviously I have not been a good boy this year but I thought you were at least supposed to get a lump of coal or something! As a result I have now lost faith in all that is good and pure, I know no longer belive in the tooth fairy, Father xmas or Smurfs
errr Oliver why didn't you just withhold it until you rec'd payment?
It's not just buyers that get stung, us Artists do as well - A few of you will remember a while ago I worked on a D*face cli-che that had been damaged, it belonged to a forum member who will remain anonymous although lets just say you would see him quite often around the festive season. Anyway, I worked on the print, then santa, sorry, sent it back to the guy at my expense. On countless occasions I have been promised payment/artwork in return but have got nothing, obviously I have not been a good boy this year but I thought you were at least supposed to get a lump of coal or something! As a result I have now lost faith in all that is good and pure, I know no longer belive in the tooth fairy, Father xmas or Smurfs errr Oliver why didn't you just withhold it until you rec'd payment?
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by robotbad on Aug 19, 2009 8:41:03 GMT 1, Yeah, I think I would be the same Even if it was a commission, I would not be paying them before I had even seen the piece ok pay for the cost of materials if the Artists a bit short of cash, but not the full amount.
generally a deposit is made at the start, with the remainder on completion
Yeah, I think I would be the same Even if it was a commission, I would not be paying them before I had even seen the piece ok pay for the cost of materials if the Artists a bit short of cash, but not the full amount. generally a deposit is made at the start, with the remainder on completion
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by hero on Aug 19, 2009 9:04:19 GMT 1, personally, i send update photos whenever i make any progress on a piece and only charge the customer at the point that they and I both feel the piece is complete...ive never taken money up front, and i think a lot of buyers feel very comfortable with the system I tend to use
H
personally, i send update photos whenever i make any progress on a piece and only charge the customer at the point that they and I both feel the piece is complete...ive never taken money up front, and i think a lot of buyers feel very comfortable with the system I tend to use H
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Another Artist That Does NOT Deliver...., by Happy Shopper on Aug 19, 2009 13:36:23 GMT 1, Just a few hours and materials lost! Are you having a laugh? Is that what art is worth? Bottom line - yes! In terms of actual costs to an artist, it's a question of the resources used to produce the piece (on a practical level), so time and money/materials. What else can you measure?
The money you're spending is also just a measure of your hours spent at work. So if you take your logic, then losing money is really just losing a few hours of your time... the same as an artist losing time (and money owed). Basically, both have worked and found themselves out of pocket.
Just a few hours and materials lost! Are you having a laugh? Is that what art is worth? Bottom line - yes! In terms of actual costs to an artist, it's a question of the resources used to produce the piece (on a practical level), so time and money/materials. What else can you measure? The money you're spending is also just a measure of your hours spent at work. So if you take your logic, then losing money is really just losing a few hours of your time... the same as an artist losing time (and money owed). Basically, both have worked and found themselves out of pocket.
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