kay7four
Artist
New Member
Posts โข 295
Likes โข 0
May 2008
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So Sad....., by kay7four on Jan 5, 2009 2:25:00 GMT 1, With everything going on I felt I had to write this.
I have been a member of this forum for a little over a year now and I always have enjoyed coming here and getting away from the bullshit of everyday life and enjoying some great people and art. Lately I have felt that this forum is becoming a platform for individuals to spew their hate and to voice their political opinions what ever they may be. There are always two sides to a coin and when one takes a side another is bound to be insulted or hurt.
A little bit about me, I am an Israeli born citizen of the United States and I have always been about peace, love and life. I believe everyone deserves to live in peace, EVERYONE..
Hundreds of thousands of people have been protesing against Israel and the United States in London, Paris, Rome and all over the globe. The protestors are good people coming out to support the "underdogs" the civilian population that has been held captive for so many years, and I understand that and I stand behind that. However. we all need to be aware that the people that we need to protest against are the people that have held the Palestinian people captive for so many years and they are the terrorist partys in the middle east. Hammas, Fatah, PLO etc.
All of these organizations call for the destruction of Israel and they never have agreed with Israels right to exist.
The events in Gaza are tragic and the civilians of both countries need our prayers. The people, once again are victoms of their own government and I hope that the people of both sides rise up against their rulers and call for peace on earth.
Sorry its so long but I feel better now.
Peace
K74
With everything going on I felt I had to write this.
I have been a member of this forum for a little over a year now and I always have enjoyed coming here and getting away from the bullshit of everyday life and enjoying some great people and art. Lately I have felt that this forum is becoming a platform for individuals to spew their hate and to voice their political opinions what ever they may be. There are always two sides to a coin and when one takes a side another is bound to be insulted or hurt.
A little bit about me, I am an Israeli born citizen of the United States and I have always been about peace, love and life. I believe everyone deserves to live in peace, EVERYONE..
Hundreds of thousands of people have been protesing against Israel and the United States in London, Paris, Rome and all over the globe. The protestors are good people coming out to support the "underdogs" the civilian population that has been held captive for so many years, and I understand that and I stand behind that. However. we all need to be aware that the people that we need to protest against are the people that have held the Palestinian people captive for so many years and they are the terrorist partys in the middle east. Hammas, Fatah, PLO etc.
All of these organizations call for the destruction of Israel and they never have agreed with Israels right to exist.
The events in Gaza are tragic and the civilians of both countries need our prayers. The people, once again are victoms of their own government and I hope that the people of both sides rise up against their rulers and call for peace on earth.
Sorry its so long but I feel better now.
Peace
K74
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raiden
New Member
Posts โข 512
Likes โข 3
April 2008
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So Sad....., by raiden on Jan 5, 2009 6:06:32 GMT 1, I don't read everything, but I feel "hate" is too strong of a word.
I also find it hypocritical that at the beginning of the post you lament that the forum is becoming "a platform for individuals ... to voice their political opinions," when you do just that.
Nevertheless, I personally welcome your political views, as I feel art, particularly urban art, can not be divorced from social issues.
Yes, the conflict in Gaza is highly inflammatory, and I have posted quite vociferous defenses of my own personal position on issues - though less so on this particular issue. I am wary of labeling a rant against an idea I despise as "spewing hate." I may despise an idea, but I do not "hate" that it is being discussed or am hateful toward the person airing the opinion.
K74, I respect your unique perspective as an Israeli-American, and understand why you may perceive hostility in many's response to the recent Gaza tragedy - however, I must also say that I few this as an intensely complicated issue in which NO side is right.
Allow me to argue both sides:
Yes, Hamas has taken part in terrorism - and some may say that qualifies them as a wholly illegitimate organization. But then Hamas was democratically elected partly due to a frustration with Israel, so a case could be made for them being a legitimate government.
Yes, a case can be made to classify Hamas as a terrorist government, but a case can be made to qualify Israel as an unjust oppressive state.
Yes, Israel has a right to self-defense, but a case can be made that their response supersedes self defense.
Yes, Israel can make a legitimate claim to the the "Holy Land," but so can the Palestinians.
...
Point being, like it or not, few of the underlying issues in the ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict can be stated unequivocally.
Still, one thing I hope rings unequivocal, is the very call for peace that you end with.
On that point especially, I could not agree with you more.
I don't read everything, but I feel "hate" is too strong of a word.
I also find it hypocritical that at the beginning of the post you lament that the forum is becoming "a platform for individuals ... to voice their political opinions," when you do just that.
Nevertheless, I personally welcome your political views, as I feel art, particularly urban art, can not be divorced from social issues.
Yes, the conflict in Gaza is highly inflammatory, and I have posted quite vociferous defenses of my own personal position on issues - though less so on this particular issue. I am wary of labeling a rant against an idea I despise as "spewing hate." I may despise an idea, but I do not "hate" that it is being discussed or am hateful toward the person airing the opinion.
K74, I respect your unique perspective as an Israeli-American, and understand why you may perceive hostility in many's response to the recent Gaza tragedy - however, I must also say that I few this as an intensely complicated issue in which NO side is right.
Allow me to argue both sides:
Yes, Hamas has taken part in terrorism - and some may say that qualifies them as a wholly illegitimate organization. But then Hamas was democratically elected partly due to a frustration with Israel, so a case could be made for them being a legitimate government.
Yes, a case can be made to classify Hamas as a terrorist government, but a case can be made to qualify Israel as an unjust oppressive state.
Yes, Israel has a right to self-defense, but a case can be made that their response supersedes self defense.
Yes, Israel can make a legitimate claim to the the "Holy Land," but so can the Palestinians.
...
Point being, like it or not, few of the underlying issues in the ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict can be stated unequivocally.
Still, one thing I hope rings unequivocal, is the very call for peace that you end with.
On that point especially, I could not agree with you more.
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PRO
New Member
Posts โข 335
Likes โข 122
October 2007
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So Sad....., by PRO on Jan 5, 2009 10:36:51 GMT 1, This is some deep shit.. and to think this time a year ago bansky was there with santas getto
This is some deep shit.. and to think this time a year ago bansky was there with santas getto
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So Sad....., by Happy Shopper on Jan 5, 2009 11:53:00 GMT 1, If someone hates you so much, perhaps you have to ask why... and then try to sort that out.
Making things worse is never going to help. More victims, more grieving, more people that hate Israel!
I believe this is just building up to an even bigger offensive by Israel. Could be very bad indeed...
If someone hates you so much, perhaps you have to ask why... and then try to sort that out.
Making things worse is never going to help. More victims, more grieving, more people that hate Israel!
I believe this is just building up to an even bigger offensive by Israel. Could be very bad indeed...
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shaunyboy
New Member
Posts โข 559
Likes โข 38
March 2008
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So Sad....., by shaunyboy on Jan 5, 2009 14:50:24 GMT 1, Hi K74,
I have no connection to Israel or Palestine only the obvious one of all of us sharing one planet.
So, when I looked into the issues surrounding the problems I did so as an outsider with no obvious connections to either side.
I came to the conclusion that until there is justice for the Palestinians there will never be peace. It does not mean that peace will be instant or easy but the very fact that Gaza is in effect the world's largest prison camp means that there will be extremely unhappy people prepared to do anything to get out of the grim situation they find themselves.
I believe that all the problems stem from this basic injustice and until it is sorted no number of rockets fired or mosques bombed will wish the problem away.
In the end there will be 2 states, one Palestine and Israel. The only question is how many people will be killed between now and then?
The sooner there is a ceasefire and the political move towards this justice the better.
Peace,
Shaun
Hi K74,
I have no connection to Israel or Palestine only the obvious one of all of us sharing one planet.
So, when I looked into the issues surrounding the problems I did so as an outsider with no obvious connections to either side.
I came to the conclusion that until there is justice for the Palestinians there will never be peace. It does not mean that peace will be instant or easy but the very fact that Gaza is in effect the world's largest prison camp means that there will be extremely unhappy people prepared to do anything to get out of the grim situation they find themselves.
I believe that all the problems stem from this basic injustice and until it is sorted no number of rockets fired or mosques bombed will wish the problem away.
In the end there will be 2 states, one Palestine and Israel. The only question is how many people will be killed between now and then?
The sooner there is a ceasefire and the political move towards this justice the better.
Peace,
Shaun
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Prescription Art
Art Gallery
Junior Member
Posts โข 3,141
Likes โข 1,205
November 2007
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So Sad....., by Prescription Art on Jan 5, 2009 15:26:41 GMT 1, Hi K74, I have no connection to Israel or Palestine only the obvious one of all of us sharing one planet. So, when I looked into the issues surrounding the problems I did so as an outsider with no obvious connections to either side. I came to the conclusion that until there is justice for the Palestinians there will never be peace. It does not mean that peace will be instant or easy but the very fact that Gaza is in effect the world's largest prison camp means that there will be extremely unhappy people prepared to do anything to get out of the grim situation they find themselves. I believe that all the problems stem from this basic injustice and until it is sorted no number of rockets fired or mosques bombed will wish the problem away. In the end there will be 2 states, one Palestine and Israel. The only question is how many people will be killed between now and then? The sooner there is a ceasefire and the political move towards this justice the better. Peace, Shaun
Amen to that....
Hi K74, I have no connection to Israel or Palestine only the obvious one of all of us sharing one planet. So, when I looked into the issues surrounding the problems I did so as an outsider with no obvious connections to either side. I came to the conclusion that until there is justice for the Palestinians there will never be peace. It does not mean that peace will be instant or easy but the very fact that Gaza is in effect the world's largest prison camp means that there will be extremely unhappy people prepared to do anything to get out of the grim situation they find themselves. I believe that all the problems stem from this basic injustice and until it is sorted no number of rockets fired or mosques bombed will wish the problem away. In the end there will be 2 states, one Palestine and Israel. The only question is how many people will be killed between now and then? The sooner there is a ceasefire and the political move towards this justice the better. Peace, Shaun Amen to that.... |
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So Sad....., by doublehelix on Jan 5, 2009 15:37:28 GMT 1, 
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mcster
New Member
Posts โข 367
Likes โข 0
October 2007
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So Sad....., by mcster on Jan 5, 2009 15:49:24 GMT 1, I hope there will be peace soon. We (the UK) and the USA have to shoulder some, if not most, of the blame for the current mess though - was it not us that 'gave' Israel to the Jews after WW2, dividing Palestine? IMO all the problems in the middle east come from this act. I don't blame either side for defending themselves, but with the might of the Israeli army vs the relative weakness of Hamas etc (in terms of weaponry) it's hard not to have more sympathy with Palestine.
One thing is certain, there are many innocent people on both sides that don't deserve this shit.
I hope there will be peace soon. We (the UK) and the USA have to shoulder some, if not most, of the blame for the current mess though - was it not us that 'gave' Israel to the Jews after WW2, dividing Palestine? IMO all the problems in the middle east come from this act. I don't blame either side for defending themselves, but with the might of the Israeli army vs the relative weakness of Hamas etc (in terms of weaponry) it's hard not to have more sympathy with Palestine.
One thing is certain, there are many innocent people on both sides that don't deserve this shit.
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So Sad....., by doublehelix on Jan 5, 2009 19:12:10 GMT 1,
Thanks for posting that, a very illuminating - and depressing - read.
Thanks for posting that, a very illuminating - and depressing - read. |
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deepdownboy
New Member
Posts โข 198
Likes โข 23
October 2008
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So Sad....., by deepdownboy on Jan 5, 2009 19:18:50 GMT 1, This is:
"Banksy + Urban & Pop Art Chat Forum"
not a political forum, please lets keep it that way.
You guys on here have so much knowledge of the Art etc and that's the way it should stay.
That's my humble opinion.
This is:
"Banksy + Urban & Pop Art Chat Forum"
not a political forum, please lets keep it that way.
You guys on here have so much knowledge of the Art etc and that's the way it should stay.
That's my humble opinion.
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So Sad....., by dill on Jan 5, 2009 21:03:58 GMT 1, I disagree, it is a banksy forum, and much of Banksy's were strong statements against the Iraq war and therefore heavily political.
Last year he went to Palastine and made many political points with his art... so why shouldn't we discuss the situation Banksy himself has highlighted?
Personally I find these discussions very interesting, and of course if you don't want to talk about politics, just don't read the thread and don't post on it...
.... I suppose the alternative would be to write a note to Banksy telling him to keep politics out of his art.
But since when have art and politics been seperate?
That's my humble opinion
I disagree, it is a banksy forum, and much of Banksy's were strong statements against the Iraq war and therefore heavily political.
Last year he went to Palastine and made many political points with his art... so why shouldn't we discuss the situation Banksy himself has highlighted?
Personally I find these discussions very interesting, and of course if you don't want to talk about politics, just don't read the thread and don't post on it...
.... I suppose the alternative would be to write a note to Banksy telling him to keep politics out of his art.
But since when have art and politics been seperate?
That's my humble opinion
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So Sad....., by dill on Jan 5, 2009 21:18:19 GMT 1,
horrifying statistics... if this carries on will there be any Palestinians left
horrifying statistics... if this carries on will there be any Palestinians left |
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So Sad....., by dill on Jan 5, 2009 22:53:20 GMT 1, seeing as i have managed to raise the issue of the Iraq war, here is a little video I thought was quite informative
uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1Khut8xbXK8
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shaunyboy
New Member
Posts โข 559
Likes โข 38
March 2008
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So Sad....., by shaunyboy on Jan 5, 2009 23:12:53 GMT 1, This is: "Banksy + Urban & Pop Art Chat Forum" not a political forum, please lets keep it that way. You guys on here have so much knowledge of the Art etc and that's the way it should stay. That's my humble opinion.
I disagree profoundly.
Banksy and politics are inextricably linked.
Have you ever seen any of Banksy's work?
This is: "Banksy + Urban & Pop Art Chat Forum" not a political forum, please lets keep it that way. You guys on here have so much knowledge of the Art etc and that's the way it should stay. That's my humble opinion. I disagree profoundly. Banksy and politics are inextricably linked. Have you ever seen any of Banksy's work? |
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achtungbono
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,093
Likes โข 156
May 2008
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So Sad....., by achtungbono on Jan 6, 2009 0:19:49 GMT 1, Ask yourself what is "politics" ?
Its intrinsically Human, something that sets up apart from other living creatures to a huge degree.
without politics - on a micro or macro level - we would not be human
art has to incorporate poltics, to varying levels- overt or discrete - there is a politcal dimension to the art we see around us, from Old masters, through Seurat & futurism, to the scrawls on empty buildings we see today.Even Constable, with his rural scenes documents and makes a statement of here and now, as it was at the time. Who cannot be moved by Turner, his vivid colours and images capturing a time , a place - a statement of a society viewed through the eyes of an individual
whether we agree with what is being said is down to the individual - and thats the key- Individual
If we disregard politics in our art, then we fail to appreciate what is being said, however subtle
Politics has as much place in an art forum as the art itself. We can all learn something new every day with a provocative post, an interpretation , a postulation.
anythinmg that raises awaeness, provokes discussion and can aid the forming of a well reasoned opinion cannot be bad
without politics in art, we would all have pictures of Kittens playing with balls of wool on our walls
and I hate kittens
Ask yourself what is "politics" ?
Its intrinsically Human, something that sets up apart from other living creatures to a huge degree.
without politics - on a micro or macro level - we would not be human
art has to incorporate poltics, to varying levels- overt or discrete - there is a politcal dimension to the art we see around us, from Old masters, through Seurat & futurism, to the scrawls on empty buildings we see today.Even Constable, with his rural scenes documents and makes a statement of here and now, as it was at the time. Who cannot be moved by Turner, his vivid colours and images capturing a time , a place - a statement of a society viewed through the eyes of an individual
whether we agree with what is being said is down to the individual - and thats the key- Individual
If we disregard politics in our art, then we fail to appreciate what is being said, however subtle
Politics has as much place in an art forum as the art itself. We can all learn something new every day with a provocative post, an interpretation , a postulation.
anythinmg that raises awaeness, provokes discussion and can aid the forming of a well reasoned opinion cannot be bad
without politics in art, we would all have pictures of Kittens playing with balls of wool on our walls
and I hate kittens
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So Sad....., by dill on Jan 6, 2009 0:34:07 GMT 1, ... strangely enough if you click on my you tube link above you will see a video of a kitten explaining why Bush, the american solidiers, and indeed british soldiers are in fact war criminnals... legally speaking.
One very interesting kitten IMO
... strangely enough if you click on my you tube link above you will see a video of a kitten explaining why Bush, the american solidiers, and indeed british soldiers are in fact war criminnals... legally speaking.
One very interesting kitten IMO
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So Sad....., by ikkeno on Jan 6, 2009 4:13:18 GMT 1, ... strangely enough if you click on my you tube link above you will see a video of a kitten explaining why Bush, the american solidiers, and indeed british soldiers are in fact war criminnals... legally speaking. One very interesting kitten IMO
Thanks for the link!
It was a nice little summary of the iraq/us conflict.
... strangely enough if you click on my you tube link above you will see a video of a kitten explaining why Bush, the american solidiers, and indeed british soldiers are in fact war criminnals... legally speaking. One very interesting kitten IMO Thanks for the link! It was a nice little summary of the iraq/us conflict. |
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