Urban Art Association

Bloomsbury Auction Dec 4th, by lee3 on Dec 6, 2008 18:35:47 GMT 1,

Dec 6, 2008 10:24:37 GMT 1 Pattycakes said:

I was at the Bloomsbury sale, and as lee quite rightly pointed out the auctioneer was bidding up to the reserve on some of the lots, before every auction, Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonham's etc, there is a statement read out which essentially says that the auctioneer has the right to bid on behalf of the consignor up to the level of the reserve. One thing to note though, this is not Chandelier bidding, that is something entirely different and may I add illegal. A Chandelier bid is where the auctioneer has an absentee bid in his book and bids against a fictional person in the room or the "Chandelier" in order to sell the item for the highest amount the absentee bidder left.

This is a practice that you wont see at any Mayfair Auctioneers, it's downright illegal, and one thing that is stricktly tabboo. That said i've seen it happen at a lot of country and out of town auctions. This is why I never leave absentee bids, I've been burned too many times out of town paying more than I ought to because the auctioneers get greedy.

Everyone I know refers to it as chandelier bidding and this is coming from the people I speak with at the various auction houses themselves so whatever you wish to call it, be careful as it does exist. This may be of some help for clarification purposes:

www.originalprop.com/blog/?p=454

>>>This is why I never leave absentee bids, I've been burned too many times out of town paying more than I ought to because the auctioneers get greedy.<<<

On the flip side, I've left a large number of absentee bids and even conditional bids (if i win X, don't bid on Y) over the past 5 years. The houses can not chandelier against your absentee bid (though i've only done it at Christie's and Sotheyby's but I would have trust in the next top 3 names). The advantage I see to absentee bids is that it takes my emotion completely out of the equation. Having attended more than a couple of auctions I can appreciate the fun factor and excitement catching up in the moment and pulling me higher than i otherwise would bid (it's only happened once and thankfully in hind sight i lost.)

The 4 times I have won items via absentee bids have all come at a substantial discount to my high bid which i found particularly encouraging. There's nothing like calling in and finding out you won for a fraction of what you were willing to pay. I'm by no means an expert but i've studied the process and been fortunate enough to be mentored by very knowledgeable dealers and habitual auction buyers. I also believe the game has changed dramatically in the past 6 weeks and there are some very prominent dealers willing to make deals with buyers at enticing prices these days and I suspect a much higher percentage of my buying in the near term will come from dealers as opposed to the auction block. I've had a WONDERFUL experience the past couple of weeks working with the kind folks at Andipa and earlier this year with Derek Baurmann and Laz too. Best to just identify what you want and what you are willing to pay as there are a lot of good people willing to work hard to help you in any search today. I should also note how thankful I am for the warning one individual gave me in private regarding a potential purchase at Leonard St. a week or two before they went under. That would have been a devastating learning experience for me and for that I'm beyond grateful. I can't imagine how upset I would be to this day over that experience and even to this hobby had that warning not come through. These forums have a lot of power when used openly and honestly.

Dec 6, 2008 10:24:37 GMT 1 Pattycakes said:

I was at the Bloomsbury sale, and as lee quite rightly pointed out the auctioneer was bidding up to the reserve on some of the lots, before every auction, Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonham's etc, there is a statement read out which essentially says that the auctioneer has the right to bid on behalf of the consignor up to the level of the reserve. One thing to note though, this is not Chandelier bidding, that is something entirely different and may I add illegal. A Chandelier bid is where the auctioneer has an absentee bid in his book and bids against a fictional person in the room or the "Chandelier" in order to sell the item for the highest amount the absentee bidder left.

This is a practice that you wont see at any Mayfair Auctioneers, it's downright illegal, and one thing that is stricktly tabboo. That said i've seen it happen at a lot of country and out of town auctions. This is why I never leave absentee bids, I've been burned too many times out of town paying more than I ought to because the auctioneers get greedy.

Everyone I know refers to it as chandelier bidding and this is coming from the people I speak with at the various auction houses themselves so whatever you wish to call it, be careful as it does exist. This may be of some help for clarification purposes:

www.originalprop.com/blog/?p=454

>>>This is why I never leave absentee bids, I've been burned too many times out of town paying more than I ought to because the auctioneers get greedy.<<<

On the flip side, I've left a large number of absentee bids and even conditional bids (if i win X, don't bid on Y) over the past 5 years. The houses can not chandelier against your absentee bid (though i've only done it at Christie's and Sotheyby's but I would have trust in the next top 3 names). The advantage I see to absentee bids is that it takes my emotion completely out of the equation. Having attended more than a couple of auctions I can appreciate the fun factor and excitement catching up in the moment and pulling me higher than i otherwise would bid (it's only happened once and thankfully in hind sight i lost.)

The 4 times I have won items via absentee bids have all come at a substantial discount to my high bid which i found particularly encouraging. There's nothing like calling in and finding out you won for a fraction of what you were willing to pay. I'm by no means an expert but i've studied the process and been fortunate enough to be mentored by very knowledgeable dealers and habitual auction buyers. I also believe the game has changed dramatically in the past 6 weeks and there are some very prominent dealers willing to make deals with buyers at enticing prices these days and I suspect a much higher percentage of my buying in the near term will come from dealers as opposed to the auction block. I've had a WONDERFUL experience the past couple of weeks working with the kind folks at Andipa and earlier this year with Derek Baurmann and Laz too. Best to just identify what you want and what you are willing to pay as there are a lot of good people willing to work hard to help you in any search today. I should also note how thankful I am for the warning one individual gave me in private regarding a potential purchase at Leonard St. a week or two before they went under. That would have been a devastating learning experience for me and for that I'm beyond grateful. I can't imagine how upset I would be to this day over that experience and even to this hobby had that warning not come through. These forums have a lot of power when used openly and honestly.