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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by onemandown72 on Sept 23, 2008 20:37:44 GMT 1, www.lyonandturnbull.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=222+++++++57+&refno=++107239
Aside from all the back and forth about Vermin, I am still at a loss as to why Pest Control haven't given the Fungle O Junk auth.
Now I am not privy to conversations on either side, and I doubt that the real reason would be posted on here, so more peoples thoughts on this.
It is highly unlikely that Banksy could have done this piece without the owners permission. It's clearly a great example of his early work, so why no Pest Control authentication. Surely this is clearly a seperate piece from bollards / road signs.
If it's the case that this has been sold on by the original owners, and Banksy doens't want to now give his blessing, whilst his right is it correct that this should be the case?
This for me is at the crux of the vermin debate, and as isn't a street piece in the nromal sense of the word, why would pest control class as such?
www.lyonandturnbull.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp?salelot=222+++++++57+&refno=++107239Aside from all the back and forth about Vermin, I am still at a loss as to why Pest Control haven't given the Fungle O Junk auth. Now I am not privy to conversations on either side, and I doubt that the real reason would be posted on here, so more peoples thoughts on this. It is highly unlikely that Banksy could have done this piece without the owners permission. It's clearly a great example of his early work, so why no Pest Control authentication. Surely this is clearly a seperate piece from bollards / road signs. If it's the case that this has been sold on by the original owners, and Banksy doens't want to now give his blessing, whilst his right is it correct that this should be the case? This for me is at the crux of the vermin debate, and as isn't a street piece in the nromal sense of the word, why would pest control class as such?
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by mammal2 on Sept 23, 2008 21:03:39 GMT 1, GIFT innit
GIFT innit
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by onemandown72 on Sept 23, 2008 21:14:19 GMT 1, Why should this make any difference? If you've given a gift, what difference does it make what is then done with it. Considering Banksy's work didn't have huge levels of financial value it's not as if the owners of the trailer where planning on profiteering when the work was done.
Maybe Banksy has had a huge falling out with the owners of the trailer, maybe they've sold it on and Banksy doens't want to help the new owners of the work. Either way I feel that lumping this under the same category as street piece asks more questions than it answers
Why should this make any difference? If you've given a gift, what difference does it make what is then done with it. Considering Banksy's work didn't have huge levels of financial value it's not as if the owners of the trailer where planning on profiteering when the work was done.
Maybe Banksy has had a huge falling out with the owners of the trailer, maybe they've sold it on and Banksy doens't want to help the new owners of the work. Either way I feel that lumping this under the same category as street piece asks more questions than it answers
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by mammal2 on Sept 23, 2008 21:27:13 GMT 1, Why should someone who had a mural painted for free financially be rewarded more so than a person who gave Banksy ยฃ250 squid worth of beer money on a canvas of a little know graff artist. The people who put their money down will be the ones rewarded. Plus, festival pieces like this were possibly painted under a ten thousand pound booze and brown shit hammer, so he may not remember. He would also never paint the streets again if he had to stay in the office and stand over Hollys shoulder all day going yeah, no, yeah, no.
Why should someone who had a mural painted for free financially be rewarded more so than a person who gave Banksy ยฃ250 squid worth of beer money on a canvas of a little know graff artist. The people who put their money down will be the ones rewarded. Plus, festival pieces like this were possibly painted under a ten thousand pound booze and brown shit hammer, so he may not remember. He would also never paint the streets again if he had to stay in the office and stand over Hollys shoulder all day going yeah, no, yeah, no.
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by alsbabar on Sept 23, 2008 21:32:18 GMT 1, agreed mammal
also onemandown, i would imagine you would be a little pissed off also if I sold a gift you gave to me, without asking your permission first, for purely profiteering reasons.
agreed mammal
also onemandown, i would imagine you would be a little pissed off also if I sold a gift you gave to me, without asking your permission first, for purely profiteering reasons.
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by graeme501 on Sept 23, 2008 21:36:31 GMT 1, yeah agreed aswell, i think it would piss some people off trying putting something into an auction that you havent paid for, or isnt even yours in the first place
yeah agreed aswell, i think it would piss some people off trying putting something into an auction that you havent paid for, or isnt even yours in the first place
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funyoung
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,040
Likes โข 20
February 2008
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by funyoung on Sept 23, 2008 21:40:09 GMT 1, Pissed of is one thing.
'Spitefully' not authenticating it is what you are suggesting.
Once you give away a gift you no longer have any legal say over what happens to it next.
It's called 'transfer of ownership' I believe.
Pissed of is one thing.
'Spitefully' not authenticating it is what you are suggesting.
Once you give away a gift you no longer have any legal say over what happens to it next.
It's called 'transfer of ownership' I believe.
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by lovingit on Sept 23, 2008 21:45:17 GMT 1, Pissed of is one thing. 'Spitefully' not authenticating it is what you are suggesting. Once you give away a gift you no longer have any legal say over what happens to it next. It's called 'transfer of ownership' I believe.
Very true, likewise what obligation have you to authenticate it for profit.
Pissed of is one thing. 'Spitefully' not authenticating it is what you are suggesting. Once you give away a gift you no longer have any legal say over what happens to it next. It's called 'transfer of ownership' I believe. Very true, likewise what obligation have you to authenticate it for profit. |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by alsbabar on Sept 23, 2008 21:49:14 GMT 1, Pissed of is one thing. 'Spitefully' not authenticating it is what you are suggesting. Once you give away a gift you no longer have any legal say over what happens to it next. It's called 'transfer of ownership' I believe.
no funyoung, i never suggested anything of the kind, so please do not make insinuations that i did.
Pissed of is one thing. 'Spitefully' not authenticating it is what you are suggesting. Once you give away a gift you no longer have any legal say over what happens to it next. It's called 'transfer of ownership' I believe. no funyoung, i never suggested anything of the kind, so please do not make insinuations that i did. |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by onemandown72 on Sept 23, 2008 21:51:57 GMT 1, Why should someone who had a mural painted for free financially be rewarded more so than a person who gave Banksy ยฃ250 squid worth of beer money on a canvas of a little know graff artist. The people who put their money down will be the ones rewarded. Plus, festival pieces like this were possibly painted under a ten thousand pound booze and brown s**t hammer, so he may not remember. He would also never paint the streets again if he had to stay in the office and stand over Hollys shoulder all day going yeah, no, yeah, no.
Interesting points - other side of this is that wouldn't the artist get more pleasure & satisfaction from doing the bigger piece, which the side of the trailer allows for. Thus allowing the artist an opportunity to develop their ideas, skills and talent. Small canvass for ยฃ250 don't give the artist this opportunity.
I also very much doubt that however smashed Banksy was, that he would forget painting the side of the trailer.
I do agree that spending time giving the nod to what he has and hasn't done must is a pretty p*ss poor way of spending your time. And with the vast majority of street pieces this is the case, this however is different.
Alsbarbar - With regards selling on a gift, this a tricky one. Again with the Fungle Junk without knowing who is selling and the history in how they are trying this, impossible to know.
I can't possibly know how I would feel if work I did commanded 6 figur sums, as the impact this must have on you would be pretty difficult to gauge. Would you want previous acquaintances to benefit, would you want all your body of work to be protected through selling via the traditional system, or only allow what you felt was relevant?
Why should someone who had a mural painted for free financially be rewarded more so than a person who gave Banksy ยฃ250 squid worth of beer money on a canvas of a little know graff artist. The people who put their money down will be the ones rewarded. Plus, festival pieces like this were possibly painted under a ten thousand pound booze and brown s**t hammer, so he may not remember. He would also never paint the streets again if he had to stay in the office and stand over Hollys shoulder all day going yeah, no, yeah, no. Interesting points - other side of this is that wouldn't the artist get more pleasure & satisfaction from doing the bigger piece, which the side of the trailer allows for. Thus allowing the artist an opportunity to develop their ideas, skills and talent. Small canvass for ยฃ250 don't give the artist this opportunity. I also very much doubt that however smashed Banksy was, that he would forget painting the side of the trailer. I do agree that spending time giving the nod to what he has and hasn't done must is a pretty p*ss poor way of spending your time. And with the vast majority of street pieces this is the case, this however is different. Alsbarbar - With regards selling on a gift, this a tricky one. Again with the Fungle Junk without knowing who is selling and the history in how they are trying this, impossible to know. I can't possibly know how I would feel if work I did commanded 6 figur sums, as the impact this must have on you would be pretty difficult to gauge. Would you want previous acquaintances to benefit, would you want all your body of work to be protected through selling via the traditional system, or only allow what you felt was relevant? |
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mishco
New Member
Posts โข 871
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May 2006
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by mishco on Sept 23, 2008 22:23:53 GMT 1,
think mammal sums it up perfectly, if it isn't a canvas/ gallery piece nor a print then it won't be authenticated by PC. straight down the line rule that people can't get confused with.
if they decided to authenticate even 1 street piece i think there's be more than a few disgruntled street piece owners, some with more notorious pieces than this, that would kick up an awful fuss.
money being the root and all that....
think mammal sums it up perfectly, if it isn't a canvas/ gallery piece nor a print then it won't be authenticated by PC. straight down the line rule that people can't get confused with. if they decided to authenticate even 1 street piece i think there's be more than a few disgruntled street piece owners, some with more notorious pieces than this, that would kick up an awful fuss. money being the root and all that.... |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by alsbabar on Sept 23, 2008 22:24:55 GMT 1, perfectly put mishco
perfectly put mishco
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guest2
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,471
Likes โข 1
December 2006
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guest2
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,471
Likes โข 1
December 2006
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by alsbabar on Sept 23, 2008 22:43:03 GMT 1,
this is an AP print,so it is numbered recorded piece (this is what i meant to say, so apologies for the confusion), so not a gift or streetpiece 
this is an AP print,so it is numbered recorded piece (this is what i meant to say, so apologies for the confusion), so not a gift or streetpiece |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by graeme501 on Sept 23, 2008 22:45:58 GMT 1, well on one of the one's that frankie listed it says this:
Footnote:
Provenance: The present canvas was gifted to the current vendor by the artist.
Lot Notice
This lot has been authenticated by Pest Control Office
do explain defender of laz 
well on one of the one's that frankie listed it says this: Footnote: Provenance: The present canvas was gifted to the current vendor by the artist. Lot Notice This lot has been authenticated by Pest Control Office do explain defender of laz |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by onemandown72 on Sept 23, 2008 22:55:00 GMT 1, think mammal sums it up perfectly, if it isn't a canvas/ gallery piece nor a print then it won't be authenticated by PC. straight down the line rule that people can't get confused with. if they decided to authenticate even 1 street piece i think there's be more than a few disgruntled street piece owners, some with more notorious pieces than this, that would kick up an awful fuss. money being the root and all that....
Seems like the Telegraph would have us believe that street pieces have been authenticated, which also wouldn't surprise me, and seems that it's not the fact the work has been excecuted but whether Banksy is happy for the work to be re-sold. Again his right as an artist, but what triggers this decision? Fungle Junk clearly doesn't
think mammal sums it up perfectly, if it isn't a canvas/ gallery piece nor a print then it won't be authenticated by PC. straight down the line rule that people can't get confused with. if they decided to authenticate even 1 street piece i think there's be more than a few disgruntled street piece owners, some with more notorious pieces than this, that would kick up an awful fuss. money being the root and all that.... Seems like the Telegraph would have us believe that street pieces have been authenticated, which also wouldn't surprise me, and seems that it's not the fact the work has been excecuted but whether Banksy is happy for the work to be re-sold. Again his right as an artist, but what triggers this decision? Fungle Junk clearly doesn't |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by doublehelix on Sept 23, 2008 22:56:38 GMT 1, Let's hope Pest Control get the lots removed.
Let's hope Pest Control get the lots removed.
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deepheat
New Member
Posts โข 55
Likes โข 0
June 2007
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by deepheat on Sept 23, 2008 23:05:41 GMT 1, that a/p print isn't numbered alsabar, not part of any run.
that a/p print isn't numbered alsabar, not part of any run.
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by graeme501 on Sept 23, 2008 23:21:08 GMT 1, well on one of the one's that frankie listed it says this: Footnote: Provenance: The present canvas was gifted to the current vendor by the artist. Lot Notice This lot has been authenticated by Pest Control Office do explain defender of laz
no answer?
well on one of the one's that frankie listed it says this: Footnote: Provenance: The present canvas was gifted to the current vendor by the artist. Lot Notice This lot has been authenticated by Pest Control Office do explain defender of laz no answer? |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by mammal2 on Sept 23, 2008 23:33:32 GMT 1, We live in the real world. I think that maybe PC on Banksy's wishes will authenticate certain pieces maybe. For example if I was Banksy and I painted a picture for my mum aka the funny onion, then I would authenticate it, cause its me old dear. If it was my mate Chris who I have known for 20 years then I would authenticate it. If it was some guy whos trailer I painted in 2001 for three tins of special brew, then I would have to let it pass. Doesn't mean I didn't do it, just that it leaves the door wide open rather than a wee bit ajar for the 1000's of other pieces sitting in offices and on walls in record companies all over London to start sending Jpegs. The line is blurred for sure, but thats what Banksy is best at. Total blanking of street pieces is a great idea. Gifts, i think should be left up to the man. Just my opinion is all. A bitch for many, but hey, the world can be a bitch. LONG LIVE BANKSY! oi oi
We live in the real world. I think that maybe PC on Banksy's wishes will authenticate certain pieces maybe. For example if I was Banksy and I painted a picture for my mum aka the funny onion, then I would authenticate it, cause its me old dear. If it was my mate Chris who I have known for 20 years then I would authenticate it. If it was some guy whos trailer I painted in 2001 for three tins of special brew, then I would have to let it pass. Doesn't mean I didn't do it, just that it leaves the door wide open rather than a wee bit ajar for the 1000's of other pieces sitting in offices and on walls in record companies all over London to start sending Jpegs. The line is blurred for sure, but thats what Banksy is best at. Total blanking of street pieces is a great idea. Gifts, i think should be left up to the man. Just my opinion is all. A bitch for many, but hey, the world can be a bitch. LONG LIVE BANKSY! oi oi
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top
Junior Member
Posts โข 2,486
Likes โข 4
November 2007
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by top on Sept 23, 2008 23:43:00 GMT 1, dont get me wrong (though I'm sure some will..), but it seems nobody here actually knows what they are talking about 100%
A sentence or two from Mr B would silence all..put things straight
mmm that aint gonna happen, so err..carry on
dont get me wrong (though I'm sure some will..), but it seems nobody here actually knows what they are talking about 100%
A sentence or two from Mr B would silence all..put things straight
mmm that aint gonna happen, so err..carry on
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by alsbabar on Sept 23, 2008 23:48:10 GMT 1, that a/p print isn't numbered alsabar, not part of any run.
amended my comment, meant to imply it is a recorded/registered piece, as a/p's should and would be
that a/p print isn't numbered alsabar, not part of any run. amended my comment, meant to imply it is a recorded/registered piece, as a/p's should and would be |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by snausages on Sept 24, 2008 4:38:01 GMT 1, yeah agreed aswell, i think it would piss some people off trying putting something into an auction that you havent paid for, or isnt even yours in the first place 
This argument is all bullcrap, Banksy doesn't own any of this work and it was done illegally to begin with in most instances. He has no rights to it anymore. He came out and said use extreme caution beyond that unless he can clearly identify something as fake I think it's completely hypocritical to say anything else about it now. ...anyway I'd bet Banksy is less bothered by this all than everyone on this board anyway.
yeah agreed aswell, i think it would piss some people off trying putting something into an auction that you havent paid for, or isnt even yours in the first place Yeah, that might even piss some people off almost as much as having some 'jerk' spraypaint all over their property. This argument is all bullcrap, Banksy doesn't own any of this work and it was done illegally to begin with in most instances. He has no rights to it anymore. He came out and said use extreme caution beyond that unless he can clearly identify something as fake I think it's completely hypocritical to say anything else about it now. ...anyway I'd bet Banksy is less bothered by this all than everyone on this board anyway. |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by snausages on Sept 24, 2008 4:45:19 GMT 1, i would imagine you would be a little pissed off also if I sold a gift you gave to me, ...for purely profiteering reasons.
For purely profiteering reasons? But this piece in particular was painted in 1999 long before Banksy prices really went ballistic.
From another perspective was it really a gift? Perhaps so but just as equally Banksy should maybe even be grateful that those people allowed him to use their highly visible property as a canvas and for his (Banksy's) own self promotion.
i would imagine you would be a little pissed off also if I sold a gift you gave to me, ...for purely profiteering reasons. For purely profiteering reasons? But this piece in particular was painted in 1999 long before Banksy prices really went ballistic. From another perspective was it really a gift? Perhaps so but just as equally Banksy should maybe even be grateful that those people allowed him to use their highly visible property as a canvas and for his (Banksy's) own self promotion. |
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j8jweb
New Member
Posts โข 24
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September 2008
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by j8jweb on Sept 24, 2008 15:29:42 GMT 1, I believe Vermin and Pest Control are related (common thread is Banksy himself), and in order to give Vermin a more convinving and accepted status, he's decided to have them authenticate it - rather than Pest Control. It's a "grey area" piece and as an exercise to help Vermin set a precedent for authentication of street pieces in general it makes perfect sense.
I believe Vermin and Pest Control are related (common thread is Banksy himself), and in order to give Vermin a more convinving and accepted status, he's decided to have them authenticate it - rather than Pest Control. It's a "grey area" piece and as an exercise to help Vermin set a precedent for authentication of street pieces in general it makes perfect sense.
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jam
Junior Member
Posts โข 1,629
Likes โข 31
November 2006
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by jam on Sept 24, 2008 15:31:17 GMT 1, Vermin and Pest Control are ABSOLUTELY NOT related.
Vermin and Pest Control are ABSOLUTELY NOT related.
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by alsbabar on Sept 24, 2008 15:32:22 GMT 1, yeah thats it j8jweb, because banksy is the common denominator, they are related - based on your 2 posts i believe you to be involved in vermin and are trying to deflect attention back to pest control, and oh 2 posts and you are already talking shit
yeah thats it j8jweb, because banksy is the common denominator, they are related - based on your 2 posts i believe you to be involved in vermin and are trying to deflect attention back to pest control, and oh 2 posts and you are already talking shit
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by sonofwezzley on Sept 24, 2008 15:32:48 GMT 1, "I believe Vermin and Pest Control are related"
I believe you are Vermin 
"I believe Vermin and Pest Control are related" I believe you are Vermin |
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Fungle O Junk - Why no Pest Control?, by Daniel Silk on Sept 24, 2008 15:35:35 GMT 1, Just out of forum clarity j8jweb & onemandown72 seem to have some posts with identical IP's
Just out of forum clarity j8jweb & onemandown72 seem to have some posts with identical IP's |
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