lee3
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November 2009
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2008 20:40:35 GMT 1, So, I just looked through an artnet search as I try to educate myself with Banksy's work and pricing. I can well appreciate the unique pieces selling for more than canvases that have been done in editions. However, I do not understand why the London, New York, Bristol canvases AND Heavy Weaponry canvases that he painted in 2000 in edition sizes of 10 each measuring roughly 22 inches square sell at a discount to smaller canvases that he made later in much larger editions? Can anyone shed some light on this for me? I've attached a pic of one of the canvases I'm referring to. Thanks in advance
www.andipamodern.com/DET/DET-4259.HTM
So, I just looked through an artnet search as I try to educate myself with Banksy's work and pricing. I can well appreciate the unique pieces selling for more than canvases that have been done in editions. However, I do not understand why the London, New York, Bristol canvases AND Heavy Weaponry canvases that he painted in 2000 in edition sizes of 10 each measuring roughly 22 inches square sell at a discount to smaller canvases that he made later in much larger editions? Can anyone shed some light on this for me? I've attached a pic of one of the canvases I'm referring to. Thanks in advance www.andipamodern.com/DET/DET-4259.HTM |
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westley
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July 2007
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by westley on Apr 6, 2008 20:47:15 GMT 1, Hi
i would say its all about the image this is not one of banksys best .The same thing happens with the prints happy choppers sells for more than other banksys from that time and girl with balloon sells for loads more that the other banksys from the same time
Hi
i would say its all about the image this is not one of banksys best .The same thing happens with the prints happy choppers sells for more than other banksys from that time and girl with balloon sells for loads more that the other banksys from the same time
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by manchestermike on Apr 6, 2008 20:48:59 GMT 1, Simple desirability is one reason. Also I believe, but am not sure the old Heavy Weaponry canvases may have issues with paint cracking / yellowing of canvas.
On thing I have noticed from your posts on here and WK is you bring size of pieces (sq cm) into the equation a fair amount. Do you see this as a major relevance to price?
Simple desirability is one reason. Also I believe, but am not sure the old Heavy Weaponry canvases may have issues with paint cracking / yellowing of canvas.
On thing I have noticed from your posts on here and WK is you bring size of pieces (sq cm) into the equation a fair amount. Do you see this as a major relevance to price?
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lee3
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November 2009
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2008 20:57:00 GMT 1, >>>i would say its all about the image this is not one of banksys best<<
And yet I just don't agree here but admittedly I'm the novice. You've got 3 pretty cool ideas going on in one canvas from my vantage point:
1. having the balls to replace Paris with Bristol and crossing out NY and London and 8 years later he was more right than he probably ever imagined.
2. That it is one of the first editions to feature barcodes which he continues to paint to this day
3. Both the London, NY, Bristol and the Heavy Weaponry canvases obviously feature heavy weaponry which is again something he's done more and more editions of over the years.
Further, they have more scale in that they are 22 inches square as opposed to 16.
I'm coming at this with a pop art and Warhol background where the earlier the work, the more important but that is obviously not the case and I guess I'm missing the point as to why. If beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, to me these are pretty damn impressive canvases but maybe there is something more striking about a white primed canvas (as opposed to military green) and a dark black stencil, I don't know. Thanks for the input
>>>i would say its all about the image this is not one of banksys best<<
And yet I just don't agree here but admittedly I'm the novice. You've got 3 pretty cool ideas going on in one canvas from my vantage point:
1. having the balls to replace Paris with Bristol and crossing out NY and London and 8 years later he was more right than he probably ever imagined.
2. That it is one of the first editions to feature barcodes which he continues to paint to this day
3. Both the London, NY, Bristol and the Heavy Weaponry canvases obviously feature heavy weaponry which is again something he's done more and more editions of over the years.
Further, they have more scale in that they are 22 inches square as opposed to 16.
I'm coming at this with a pop art and Warhol background where the earlier the work, the more important but that is obviously not the case and I guess I'm missing the point as to why. If beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, to me these are pretty damn impressive canvases but maybe there is something more striking about a white primed canvas (as opposed to military green) and a dark black stencil, I don't know. Thanks for the input
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lee3
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November 2009
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2008 21:02:40 GMT 1, >>>On thing I have noticed from your posts on here and WK is you bring size of pieces (sq cm) into the equation a fair amount. Do you see this as a major relevance to price?<<<
Yes, I do when you are talking about artists with this kind of public desire. I will readily admit that I would far and away prefer a 10 inch square "Little Electric Chair" to an 80 inch flowers painting even thought the market would not agree with me.
I also bring size up with Banksy because the stencil is the same within each edition. So, to me, the differentiation point is age and size of the work in question as well as the edition size (whether its 5, 10, 25, or 30).
>>>On thing I have noticed from your posts on here and WK is you bring size of pieces (sq cm) into the equation a fair amount. Do you see this as a major relevance to price?<<<
Yes, I do when you are talking about artists with this kind of public desire. I will readily admit that I would far and away prefer a 10 inch square "Little Electric Chair" to an 80 inch flowers painting even thought the market would not agree with me.
I also bring size up with Banksy because the stencil is the same within each edition. So, to me, the differentiation point is age and size of the work in question as well as the edition size (whether its 5, 10, 25, or 30).
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by manchestermike on Apr 6, 2008 21:09:27 GMT 1, I can understand the edition being a point of increased desirability, but the size difference of 22 and 16 sq inch would make the desirability increase by precisely zero in my opinion.
I can understand the edition being a point of increased desirability, but the size difference of 22 and 16 sq inch would make the desirability increase by precisely zero in my opinion.
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Heavyconsumer
Junior Member
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February 2008
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by Heavyconsumer on Apr 6, 2008 21:09:28 GMT 1, I think that generally speaking, size seems to be relevant to some extent in valuations of most paintings, purely because it often relates directly to the time and effort it has taken to produce the piece. Is this not the case???
I think that generally speaking, size seems to be relevant to some extent in valuations of most paintings, purely because it often relates directly to the time and effort it has taken to produce the piece. Is this not the case???
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by manchestermike on Apr 6, 2008 21:11:22 GMT 1, I think that generally speaking, size seems to be relevant to some extent in valuations of most paintings, purely because it often relates directly to the time and effort it has taken to produce the piece. Is this not the case???
Traditionally I agree, but I think when the difference is so tiny (6 sq inch) then it becomes an irrelevance
I think that generally speaking, size seems to be relevant to some extent in valuations of most paintings, purely because it often relates directly to the time and effort it has taken to produce the piece. Is this not the case??? Traditionally I agree, but I think when the difference is so tiny (6 sq inch) then it becomes an irrelevance |
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lee3
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November 2009
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2008 21:15:11 GMT 1, I can understand the edition being a point of increased desirability, but the size difference of 22 and 16 sq inch would make the desirability increase by precisely zero in my opinion.
Back to my Warhol flower paintings for a moment. An 8 inch square will run you $350k. A 12 inch square will set you back by about $1.25 million and the best 22 inch one I ever saw hammered for $3 million. Not a lot of difference in size, but a BIG difference in the hit to the buyers wallet.
I can understand the edition being a point of increased desirability, but the size difference of 22 and 16 sq inch would make the desirability increase by precisely zero in my opinion. Back to my Warhol flower paintings for a moment. An 8 inch square will run you $350k. A 12 inch square will set you back by about $1.25 million and the best 22 inch one I ever saw hammered for $3 million. Not a lot of difference in size, but a BIG difference in the hit to the buyers wallet. |
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by manchestermike on Apr 6, 2008 21:18:10 GMT 1, I can understand the edition being a point of increased desirability, but the size difference of 22 and 16 sq inch would make the desirability increase by precisely zero in my opinion. Back to my Warhol flower paintings for a moment. An 8 inch square will run you $350k. A 12 inch square will set you back by about $1.25 million and the best 24 inch one I ever saw hammered for $3 million. Not a lot of difference in size, but a BIG difference in the hit to the buyers wallet.
Not saying that's not the case with Warhol. But Banksy is not Warhol, and if you gave 100 fans the choice of a smaller more desirable original or a bigger less desirable one (even a decent size bigger) I think 90% would go for the smaller one. That's the big difference
I can understand the edition being a point of increased desirability, but the size difference of 22 and 16 sq inch would make the desirability increase by precisely zero in my opinion. Back to my Warhol flower paintings for a moment. An 8 inch square will run you $350k. A 12 inch square will set you back by about $1.25 million and the best 24 inch one I ever saw hammered for $3 million. Not a lot of difference in size, but a BIG difference in the hit to the buyers wallet. Not saying that's not the case with Warhol. But Banksy is not Warhol, and if you gave 100 fans the choice of a smaller more desirable original or a bigger less desirable one (even a decent size bigger) I think 90% would go for the smaller one. That's the big difference |
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lee3
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November 2009
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2008 21:22:08 GMT 1, >>>and if you gave 100 fans the choice of a smaller more desirable original or a bigger less desirable one (even a decent size bigger) I think 90% would go for the smaller one. That's the big difference<<<
Agreed, but then why are these 22 inch Banksy's (which with my art education background I see as quite valuable) trading at less cost than a smaller 30 cm square or even the 24cm x 30 cm Heavy Weaponry's when they are virtually the same image save for a white primed canvas vs. a green one?
>>>and if you gave 100 fans the choice of a smaller more desirable original or a bigger less desirable one (even a decent size bigger) I think 90% would go for the smaller one. That's the big difference<<<
Agreed, but then why are these 22 inch Banksy's (which with my art education background I see as quite valuable) trading at less cost than a smaller 30 cm square or even the 24cm x 30 cm Heavy Weaponry's when they are virtually the same image save for a white primed canvas vs. a green one?
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lee3
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November 2009
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2008 21:25:45 GMT 1, Is the stenciled Banksy signature on the right side overlap (that the old green canvases lack) worth that much of a premium?
That is the only other difference that my eye can discern UNLESS as someone noted above that these are subject to some aging problems with the paint cracking and whatnot.
Is the stenciled Banksy signature on the right side overlap (that the old green canvases lack) worth that much of a premium?
That is the only other difference that my eye can discern UNLESS as someone noted above that these are subject to some aging problems with the paint cracking and whatnot.
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by manchestermike on Apr 6, 2008 21:29:10 GMT 1, Assuming you mean this:
Compared to this:
If so, the second one is smaller, a larger edition and later, yet still more desirable, due to the quality of the stencil, the general image.
The first one is very basic (look at the elephant's "lego man" legs) while the second is executed better, much more detailed, fills more of the canvas and is more striking...
Again, if you offered me the two it's be the second one every time.
Assuming you mean this: Compared to this: If so, the second one is smaller, a larger edition and later, yet still more desirable, due to the quality of the stencil, the general image. The first one is very basic (look at the elephant's "lego man" legs) while the second is executed better, much more detailed, fills more of the canvas and is more striking... Again, if you offered me the two it's be the second one every time. |
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by dave313perry on Apr 6, 2008 21:30:51 GMT 1, Agree mike
i keep telling myself size isnt everything 
Agree mike i keep telling myself size isnt everything |
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lee3
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November 2009
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by lee3 on Apr 6, 2008 21:34:53 GMT 1, >>>Again, if you offered me the two it's be the second one every time.<<<
Interesting because I made that same buying decision yesterday but after doing more research and understanding the barcode and the crossed out NY and London on the top one I'm beginning to think i should buy both. I love both images but to be honest, the top one is MUCH more intellectually stimulating given what I've learned over the past 24 hours. Just one man's view.
>>>Again, if you offered me the two it's be the second one every time.<<<
Interesting because I made that same buying decision yesterday but after doing more research and understanding the barcode and the crossed out NY and London on the top one I'm beginning to think i should buy both. I love both images but to be honest, the top one is MUCH more intellectually stimulating given what I've learned over the past 24 hours. Just one man's view.
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by manchestermike on Apr 6, 2008 21:36:40 GMT 1, >>>Again, if you offered me the two it's be the second one every time.<<< Interesting because I made that same buying decision yesterday but after doing more research and understanding the barcode and the crossed out NY and London on the top one I'm beginning to think i should buy both. I love both images but to be honest, the top one is MUCH more intellectually stimulating given what I've learned over the past 24 hours. Just one man's view.
Agree, and that's the most important thing...
Although the wrong spelling of Weaponry would bug me every time I looked at it 
>>>Again, if you offered me the two it's be the second one every time.<<< Interesting because I made that same buying decision yesterday but after doing more research and understanding the barcode and the crossed out NY and London on the top one I'm beginning to think i should buy both. I love both images but to be honest, the top one is MUCH more intellectually stimulating given what I've learned over the past 24 hours. Just one man's view. Agree, and that's the most important thing... Although the wrong spelling of Weaponry would bug me every time I looked at it |
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top
Junior Member
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November 2007
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by top on Apr 6, 2008 21:49:18 GMT 1, ..plus the difference in barcode heights.. all somewhat small points, but would grate I think.
..plus the difference in barcode heights.. all somewhat small points, but would grate I think.
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by dave313perry on Apr 6, 2008 22:06:11 GMT 1, canny beat good old CWSB - gets me everytime! what i would give to just own the print!
wasnt it Aza who's got a lovely framed CWSB in a nice big ornate frame, damn you rich people, and damn you people who got into Banksy back in '03!
wheres the whisky......
canny beat good old CWSB - gets me everytime! what i would give to just own the print!
wasnt it Aza who's got a lovely framed CWSB in a nice big ornate frame, damn you rich people, and damn you people who got into Banksy back in '03!
wheres the whisky......
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BME
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December 2006
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by BME on Apr 7, 2008 1:02:31 GMT 1, I know that Helium Foundation has (or did have) both of these for sale. From memory they were each about GBP50k, the larger green version being about GBP4k more last time I contacted them. I think that the image in general is underrated. If I was forced to choose between the two aesthetically I'd take the smaller edition for reasons already stated by others. However, if you're looking for investment potential given that the other canvas is larger, from a smaller run and older then I think that you made the right decision.
Be nice to have both of them though...
I know that Helium Foundation has (or did have) both of these for sale. From memory they were each about GBP50k, the larger green version being about GBP4k more last time I contacted them. I think that the image in general is underrated. If I was forced to choose between the two aesthetically I'd take the smaller edition for reasons already stated by others. However, if you're looking for investment potential given that the other canvas is larger, from a smaller run and older then I think that you made the right decision. Be nice to have both of them though... |
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beau
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November 2006
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by beau on Apr 7, 2008 8:26:34 GMT 1, nice link Felix - thanks, bit of a stomach turner but sweet!
nice link Felix - thanks, bit of a stomach turner but sweet!
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top
Junior Member
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November 2007
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Question regarding 2 old Banksy Canvases, by top on Apr 7, 2008 10:34:01 GMT 1, Think Mau Mau got there first..
Think Mau Mau got there first..
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