Deleted
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 7:24:08 GMT 1, Just a thought  and it's probably been said before ?! If you were to buy a signed banksy print as a future investment what would you go for ?? Around the £5k margin ?? Would you get one for that ? Do you think they will still fetch good money in 10 years ? Thanks peeps
Just a thought and it's probably been said before ?! If you were to buy a signed banksy print as a future investment what would you go for ?? Around the £5k margin ?? Would you get one for that ? Do you think they will still fetch good money in 10 years ? Thanks peeps |
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kultur
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by kultur on Aug 10, 2013 8:50:20 GMT 1, Do not buy art... even banksy... solely for investment. I am sure many members have stories of losing money by "investing" in banksy prints. Prices have gone up and down and will most likely continue to do so.
Just wait until CYW drops in price... some pieces can't sustain hype pricing.
Do not buy art... even banksy... solely for investment. I am sure many members have stories of losing money by "investing" in banksy prints. Prices have gone up and down and will most likely continue to do so.
Just wait until CYW drops in price... some pieces can't sustain hype pricing.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 8:57:56 GMT 1, no art is good for investment 2 much risk......what goes up must come down
no art is good for investment 2 much risk......what goes up must come down
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iamzero
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by iamzero on Aug 10, 2013 10:40:52 GMT 1, Does this post sum up why there is another thread in here titled why are Banksy prices going through the roof?
Does this post sum up why there is another thread in here titled why are Banksy prices going through the roof?
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Winter
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Winter on Aug 10, 2013 11:05:08 GMT 1, Banksy has a very different following than most artists generally in the art world. There's a huge 'fanbase' worldwide. If POW sent out an email today talking about a future Banksy release this forum would go into meltdown.
There is a possibility Banksy won't release another print and even if he did start producing more prints I doubt he would flood his own market (Damien Hirst, Peter Blake, Charming Baker...).
Personally I think certain pieces will continue to rise a lot more than others (GWB, Nola..) and contrary to what others are saying I would think that would include CYW.
Banksy has a very different following than most artists generally in the art world. There's a huge 'fanbase' worldwide. If POW sent out an email today talking about a future Banksy release this forum would go into meltdown.
There is a possibility Banksy won't release another print and even if he did start producing more prints I doubt he would flood his own market (Damien Hirst, Peter Blake, Charming Baker...).
Personally I think certain pieces will continue to rise a lot more than others (GWB, Nola..) and contrary to what others are saying I would think that would include CYW.
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Harveyn
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Harveyn on Aug 10, 2013 11:06:09 GMT 1, no art is good for investment 2 much risk......what goes up must come down
I would imagine the huge global investment art market that has existed for decades / centuries would say otherwise. Certainly might have a risk element and there are winners and losers. But I disagree that NO art is good for investment.
no art is good for investment 2 much risk......what goes up must come down I would imagine the huge global investment art market that has existed for decades / centuries would say otherwise. Certainly might have a risk element and there are winners and losers. But I disagree that NO art is good for investment. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 11:09:10 GMT 1, i agree with this ^^^, also there would no galleries if there were no investment potential, always has been...always will be.
FACT
i agree with this ^^^, also there would no galleries if there were no investment potential, always has been...always will be.
FACT
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anbesivam1
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by anbesivam1 on Aug 10, 2013 11:23:11 GMT 1, ...also there would no galleries if there were no investment potential, always has been...always will be. FACT
Galleries that sell primary do not need "investment potential"...The majority of art that is sold through these galleries (i.e. a retail outlet) is sold to people generally buying for the love of the piece or the artist.
The art investment market is not representative of all galleries... thus there would still be galleries Q.E.D.
...also there would no galleries if there were no investment potential, always has been...always will be. FACT Not fact. Galleries that sell primary do not need "investment potential"...The majority of art that is sold through these galleries (i.e. a retail outlet) is sold to people generally buying for the love of the piece or the artist. The art investment market is not representative of all galleries... thus there would still be galleries Q.E.D. |
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saint
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by saint on Aug 10, 2013 11:34:30 GMT 1, Sorry i have to disagree with you there, the majority of galleries utilise investment potential in artists work to be able to sell to investors. The romance of people buying for the love of the piece is a fairytale at the very top end. People buying art for millions don't generally buy it because they love the piece, they buy it because they are told by galleries that it is an investment that will offer a return...
I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule of course.
Sorry i have to disagree with you there, the majority of galleries utilise investment potential in artists work to be able to sell to investors. The romance of people buying for the love of the piece is a fairytale at the very top end. People buying art for millions don't generally buy it because they love the piece, they buy it because they are told by galleries that it is an investment that will offer a return...
I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule of course.
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johnnyh
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by johnnyh on Aug 10, 2013 12:04:32 GMT 1, Art is not actually or is only just being viewed as a legitimate investment vechile and even then is still regarded as an alternative investment.
So the buying of art and particularly at the highend is in general for the love of art or for decor status value as opposed to the investment value. Art collectors of a serious nature are in the minority so art in general as an asset makes up a small percentage of a portfolio or a persons assets.
This is unlikely to change IMO. However where it does alter is in the art collector market so as Saint says when people buy pieces they love they do look at its value and its long term prospects. Eg love the picture but would you pay 50,000 today if you thought it would be worth 25,000 tomorrow. No but again where art is different is in thal loved the picture and it will still be worth 50,0000 lots collectors would still buy it.
pgalleries use the investment and potential growth in value to collectors but that's more of a sales pitch as opposed to an investment decision art in general is spare cash
Art is not actually or is only just being viewed as a legitimate investment vechile and even then is still regarded as an alternative investment.
So the buying of art and particularly at the highend is in general for the love of art or for decor status value as opposed to the investment value. Art collectors of a serious nature are in the minority so art in general as an asset makes up a small percentage of a portfolio or a persons assets.
This is unlikely to change IMO. However where it does alter is in the art collector market so as Saint says when people buy pieces they love they do look at its value and its long term prospects. Eg love the picture but would you pay 50,000 today if you thought it would be worth 25,000 tomorrow. No but again where art is different is in thal loved the picture and it will still be worth 50,0000 lots collectors would still buy it.
pgalleries use the investment and potential growth in value to collectors but that's more of a sales pitch as opposed to an investment decision art in general is spare cash
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anbesivam1
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by anbesivam1 on Aug 10, 2013 14:40:15 GMT 1, Sorry i have to disagree with you there, the majority of galleries utilise investment potential in artists work to be able to sell to investors. The romance of people buying for the love of the piece is a fairytale at the very top end. People buying art for millions don't generally buy it because they love the piece, they buy it because they are told by galleries that it is an investment that will offer a return... I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule of course.
You are probably well versed in the difference in the term: investment vs speculation.
Art is most definitely not considered an investment. It is a speculative asset.
It is clear that very few "investors" buy art as a way of making money...they would put their money into hedge funds, property, land etc...
Sorry i have to disagree with you there, the majority of galleries utilise investment potential in artists work to be able to sell to investors. The romance of people buying for the love of the piece is a fairytale at the very top end. People buying art for millions don't generally buy it because they love the piece, they buy it because they are told by galleries that it is an investment that will offer a return... I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule of course. Hey saint sorry but I have to disagree too mate...Would you kindly share your reference source of information that the majority of art is sold to investors. You are probably well versed in the difference in the term: investment vs speculation. Art is most definitely not considered an investment. It is a speculative asset. It is clear that very few "investors" buy art as a way of making money...they would put their money into hedge funds, property, land etc... |
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DrWhite
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by DrWhite on Aug 10, 2013 16:01:45 GMT 1, I'm used to my investments nose diving - the majority of my rental property values have plummeted. The lenders are increasing their SVRs & you struggle to get an interest only mortgage for buy to let now. No investment is guaranteed
I'm used to my investments nose diving - the majority of my rental property values have plummeted. The lenders are increasing their SVRs & you struggle to get an interest only mortgage for buy to let now. No investment is guaranteed
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anbesivam1
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by anbesivam1 on Aug 10, 2013 17:26:50 GMT 1, .... No investment is guaranteed
.... No investment is guaranteed Wrong mate...treasury bonds from OECD countries |
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by naughtyshorty on Aug 10, 2013 21:26:54 GMT 1, Astonishing amount of nonsense being trotted out here!
Art has and continues to be a well considered form of investment. U can see this at the v top of the mkt with the fine art mkt right down to the street art market. Just consider how much of this forum is spent talking about prices and what people originally bought there work for- we are talking about the same thing here, but not doing it in an auction house.
A few facts
- no investment is guaranteed, even a gov can default on bonds
- what goes up does not necessarily have to go down. It can just keep on going up
- any good investor will have a balanced portfolio which will include assets that have a range of liquidity and risk. Art, wine, gold, property, shares and cash are all traditional examples. Nothing new here.
In answer to the original question, if u were buying a banksy for investment then I would go for one of the classic girlfriend friendly images- nola, gwb, NBg or a rat
Astonishing amount of nonsense being trotted out here!
Art has and continues to be a well considered form of investment. U can see this at the v top of the mkt with the fine art mkt right down to the street art market. Just consider how much of this forum is spent talking about prices and what people originally bought there work for- we are talking about the same thing here, but not doing it in an auction house.
A few facts
- no investment is guaranteed, even a gov can default on bonds
- what goes up does not necessarily have to go down. It can just keep on going up
- any good investor will have a balanced portfolio which will include assets that have a range of liquidity and risk. Art, wine, gold, property, shares and cash are all traditional examples. Nothing new here.
In answer to the original question, if u were buying a banksy for investment then I would go for one of the classic girlfriend friendly images- nola, gwb, NBg or a rat
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Shoot Again on Aug 10, 2013 21:56:44 GMT 1, Astonishing amount of nonsense being trotted out here! Art has and continues to be a well considered form of investment. U can see this at the v top of the mkt with the fine art mkt right down to the street art market. Just consider how much of this forum is spent talking about prices and what people originally bought there work for- we are talking about the same thing here, but not doing it in an auction house. A few facts - no investment is guaranteed, even a gov can default on bonds - what goes up does not necessarily have to go down. It can just keep on going up - any good investor will have a balanced portfolio which will include assets that have a range of liquidity and risk. Art, wine, gold, property, shares and cash are all traditional examples. Nothing new here. In answer to the original question, if u were buying a banksy for investment then I would go for one of the classic girlfriend friendly images- nola, gwb, NBg or a rat
Astonishing amount of nonsense being trotted out here! Art has and continues to be a well considered form of investment. U can see this at the v top of the mkt with the fine art mkt right down to the street art market. Just consider how much of this forum is spent talking about prices and what people originally bought there work for- we are talking about the same thing here, but not doing it in an auction house. A few facts - no investment is guaranteed, even a gov can default on bonds - what goes up does not necessarily have to go down. It can just keep on going up - any good investor will have a balanced portfolio which will include assets that have a range of liquidity and risk. Art, wine, gold, property, shares and cash are all traditional examples. Nothing new here. In answer to the original question, if u were buying a banksy for investment then I would go for one of the classic girlfriend friendly images- nola, gwb, NBg or a rat Agreed with 99% of that post... the missing 1% is the "Barcode" ;-) |
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johnnyh
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by johnnyh on Aug 10, 2013 22:33:37 GMT 1, .Naughtyshorty
Astonishing amount of nonsense being trotted out here!
Sorry but that is not the case. Art is not a well considered form of investment.
The big investment houses do not like the art market in general. Nor do the major pension funds, high net worth individuals (eg loaded).
Of HNWI only 10 to 15 percent own art as a financial investment. Although about 50% of HNWI own fine art it actually only makes up about 4% of their wealth portfolio.
The investment houses and pension funds do not particularly like the art market because their is very little transparency and data available. Eg a large part of the market is private sales and the other main sectors are small individual galleries or the auction houses. So good reliable data is not available.
Although art in general overall ones show growth in returns these are cyclical like any other type of investment.
the other thing you must remember though when looking at the art market is thàt the art groth figures are like that of equities. So an art investor to be safe should have a diversified collection. Eg if you had equities would you only buy shares in utilities of communication etc.
companies though are profit driven artists are not so the changing value of a piece of art or an artist is
.Naughtyshorty
Astonishing amount of nonsense being trotted out here!
Sorry but that is not the case. Art is not a well considered form of investment.
The big investment houses do not like the art market in general. Nor do the major pension funds, high net worth individuals (eg loaded).
Of HNWI only 10 to 15 percent own art as a financial investment. Although about 50% of HNWI own fine art it actually only makes up about 4% of their wealth portfolio.
The investment houses and pension funds do not particularly like the art market because their is very little transparency and data available. Eg a large part of the market is private sales and the other main sectors are small individual galleries or the auction houses. So good reliable data is not available.
Although art in general overall ones show growth in returns these are cyclical like any other type of investment.
the other thing you must remember though when looking at the art market is thàt the art groth figures are like that of equities. So an art investor to be safe should have a diversified collection. Eg if you had equities would you only buy shares in utilities of communication etc.
companies though are profit driven artists are not so the changing value of a piece of art or an artist is
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johnnyh
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by johnnyh on Aug 10, 2013 22:41:40 GMT 1, Much harder to predict in comparison. Sorry got cut off by me iPad. A lot of this info and there is a load more comes from a JP Morgan report. Art is still a minority alternative investment. Eg although growing there are very few investment funds available to give people exposure to the market. That is not to say that it is bad to invest in the art market.
Much harder to predict in comparison. Sorry got cut off by me iPad. A lot of this info and there is a load more comes from a JP Morgan report. Art is still a minority alternative investment. Eg although growing there are very few investment funds available to give people exposure to the market. That is not to say that it is bad to invest in the art market.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 22:42:11 GMT 1, .Naughtyshorty Astonishing amount of nonsense being trotted out here! Sorry but that is not the case. Art is not a well considered form of investment. The big investment houses do not like the art market in general. Nor do the major pension funds, high net worth individuals (eg loaded). Of HNWI only 10 to 15 percent own art as a financial investment. Although about 50% of HNWI own fine art it actually only makes up about 4% of their wealth portfolio. The investment houses and pension funds do not particularly like the art market because their is very little transparency and data available. Eg a large part of the market is private sales and the other main sectors are small individual galleries or the auction houses. So good reliable data is not available. Although art in general overall ones show growth in returns these are cyclical like any other type of investment. the other thing you must remember though when looking at the art market is thàt the art groth figures are like that of equities. So an art investor to be safe should have a diversified collection. Eg if you had equities would you only buy shares in utilities of communication etc. companies though are profit driven artists are not so the changing value of a piece of art or an artist is
.Naughtyshorty Astonishing amount of nonsense being trotted out here! Sorry but that is not the case. Art is not a well considered form of investment. The big investment houses do not like the art market in general. Nor do the major pension funds, high net worth individuals (eg loaded). Of HNWI only 10 to 15 percent own art as a financial investment. Although about 50% of HNWI own fine art it actually only makes up about 4% of their wealth portfolio. The investment houses and pension funds do not particularly like the art market because their is very little transparency and data available. Eg a large part of the market is private sales and the other main sectors are small individual galleries or the auction houses. So good reliable data is not available. Although art in general overall ones show growth in returns these are cyclical like any other type of investment. the other thing you must remember though when looking at the art market is thàt the art groth figures are like that of equities. So an art investor to be safe should have a diversified collection. Eg if you had equities would you only buy shares in utilities of communication etc. companies though are profit driven artists are not so the changing value of a piece of art or an artist is I guarantee investing time and energy in art, as opposed to stocks and shares.. will give you a richer life. ;-) |
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johnnyh
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by johnnyh on Aug 10, 2013 22:47:24 GMT 1, Ha totally agree with that. Think that's also why the HnWi also invest in art but not particularly for financial gain. That's not to say and none of this is that people want to or will lose money.
Think most people do not buy art for the gain but would like some and would hope not to lose much.
Also this comments are not necessarily my own thoughts but as mentioned mainly taken from a JP Morgan report that was not trying to be positive or negative just an analysis
Thought it was an interesting clinical perspective on art as an investment which is not why I buy or collect art.
Ha totally agree with that. Think that's also why the HnWi also invest in art but not particularly for financial gain. That's not to say and none of this is that people want to or will lose money.
Think most people do not buy art for the gain but would like some and would hope not to lose much.
Also this comments are not necessarily my own thoughts but as mentioned mainly taken from a JP Morgan report that was not trying to be positive or negative just an analysis
Thought it was an interesting clinical perspective on art as an investment which is not why I buy or collect art.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 1:23:44 GMT 1, What an utterly hideous thread
What an utterly hideous thread
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shadowuk
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by shadowuk on Aug 11, 2013 1:39:05 GMT 1, What an utterly hideous thread
What an utterly hideous thread agreed! |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 5:29:59 GMT 1, What an utterly hideous thread agreed!
Me too! This is amazing - I don't think I've ever agreed with anything that Deputy Dawg says in this forum but I do now !
What an utterly hideous thread agreed! Me too! This is amazing - I don't think I've ever agreed with anything that Deputy Dawg says in this forum but I do now ! |
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iamzero
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by iamzero on Aug 11, 2013 9:27:40 GMT 1, I think the main point has be lost by talking about about the big companies investing in art. I was thinking more of the average small time investors who have watched Four Rooms and Exit From... And have cottoned on to the quick money and impressing their new yuppy friends (showing my age) that they have double 'ard street art on the wall and have doubled their money in no time.
This is in no way a pop at individuals but more of an opinion on the way I see things are right now from an old skool tagger and graffiti follower but relatively newbie to the obsessive world of prints for my wall.
I think the main point has be lost by talking about about the big companies investing in art. I was thinking more of the average small time investors who have watched Four Rooms and Exit From... And have cottoned on to the quick money and impressing their new yuppy friends (showing my age) that they have double 'ard street art on the wall and have doubled their money in no time.
This is in no way a pop at individuals but more of an opinion on the way I see things are right now from an old skool tagger and graffiti follower but relatively newbie to the obsessive world of prints for my wall.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 10:20:49 GMT 1, Yeah I think it's been took over !!!!! I only wanted to know people's views on " if you buy a banksy print for £5k " do you think it would be an investment for the future?!?!? Not bothered about galleries tbh
Yeah I think it's been took over !!!!! I only wanted to know people's views on " if you buy a banksy print for £5k " do you think it would be an investment for the future?!?!? Not bothered about galleries tbh |
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Deleted
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 10:40:23 GMT 1, Yeah I think it's been took over !!!!! I only wanted to know people's views on " if you buy a banksy print for £5k " do you think it would be an investment for the future?!?!? Not bothered about galleries tbh
Yeah I think it's been took over !!!!! I only wanted to know people's views on " if you buy a banksy print for £5k " do you think it would be an investment for the future?!?!? Not bothered about galleries tbh A 5k Banksy today, will be a 10k Banksy tomorrow |
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johnnyh
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by johnnyh on Aug 11, 2013 10:53:34 GMT 1, Not really seen his prices going down lately so probably not the hardest investment decision to make.
Not really seen his prices going down lately so probably not the hardest investment decision to make.
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by Ponyboy Curtis on Aug 13, 2013 11:13:43 GMT 1, Yeah I think it's been took over !!!!! I only wanted to know people's views on " if you buy a banksy print for £5k " do you think it would be an investment for the future?!?!? Not bothered about galleries tbh A 5k Banksy today, will be a 10k Banksy tomorrow
Or not.
Yeah I think it's been took over !!!!! I only wanted to know people's views on " if you buy a banksy print for £5k " do you think it would be an investment for the future?!?!? Not bothered about galleries tbh A 5k Banksy today, will be a 10k Banksy tomorrow Or not. |
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t3c
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by t3c on Aug 13, 2013 11:22:58 GMT 1, For me personally, buying property in London is the best investment choice one can make. I have a friend who has approximately 15/16 Banksy prints in a folder that by my reckoning she could sell for almost 100K. Thats a very nice deposit on a decent gaff in a good area in London and i've told her so many times
For me personally, buying property in London is the best investment choice one can make. I have a friend who has approximately 15/16 Banksy prints in a folder that by my reckoning she could sell for almost 100K. Thats a very nice deposit on a decent gaff in a good area in London and i've told her so many times
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The Origin
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by The Origin on Aug 13, 2013 11:54:29 GMT 1, For me personally, buying property in London is the best investment choice one can make. I have a friend who has approximately 15/16 Banksy prints in a folder that by my reckoning she could sell for almost 100K. Thats a very nice deposit on a decent gaff in a good area in London and i've told her so many times
Property in London is a no brainer if you are looking to invest some serious cash. Can't go wrong whilst London remains in its own little property bubble with no sign of letting up.
Kinda crazy when you think that a pile of paper with banksy's sig on it can be converted into a house!
For me personally, buying property in London is the best investment choice one can make. I have a friend who has approximately 15/16 Banksy prints in a folder that by my reckoning she could sell for almost 100K. Thats a very nice deposit on a decent gaff in a good area in London and i've told her so many times Agree with this. Property in London is a no brainer if you are looking to invest some serious cash. Can't go wrong whilst London remains in its own little property bubble with no sign of letting up. Kinda crazy when you think that a pile of paper with banksy's sig on it can be converted into a house! |
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t3c
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Banksy ... Future investment !?, by t3c on Aug 13, 2013 12:02:55 GMT 1, Isn't it just!
Isn't it just!
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and it's probably been said before ?! If you were to buy a signed banksy print as a future investment what would you go for ?? Around the £5k margin ?? Would you get one for that ? Do you think they will still fetch good money in 10 years ? Thanks peeps 
