Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 12:51:03 GMT 1, This was pretty lazy of Martin and i can completely understand the frustration of your father, its a direct copy with some tagging, the least he should have done is got in contact for permission to use the image. If he had simply changed the face there wouldnt be a copyright issue as that pose im sure has been done many times or something very similar but the fact he used the same person is what proves a direct copy. I was having a discussion with an artist whose paintings are very similar to another artist, a blatant copy imo, they were under the belief that there has to be at least 30% difference from the original or copyright isnt applicable, i have my doubts.
This was pretty lazy of Martin and i can completely understand the frustration of your father, its a direct copy with some tagging, the least he should have done is got in contact for permission to use the image. If he had simply changed the face there wouldnt be a copyright issue as that pose im sure has been done many times or something very similar but the fact he used the same person is what proves a direct copy. I was having a discussion with an artist whose paintings are very similar to another artist, a blatant copy imo, they were under the belief that there has to be at least 30% difference from the original or copyright isnt applicable, i have my doubts.
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natstan
Junior Member
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March 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by natstan on Nov 9, 2014 13:03:28 GMT 1, Just when I thought this thread should end, things get interesting again. Wonder how this mess will end, which should make many artists sit up and rethink their work methodology all over again...
Just when I thought this thread should end, things get interesting again. Wonder how this mess will end, which should make many artists sit up and rethink their work methodology all over again...
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Poster Bob
Junior Member
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September 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Poster Bob on Nov 9, 2014 14:12:19 GMT 1, Oh man, this is a Michael Jackson eating popcorn gif moment if I ever saw one.
Oh man, this is a Michael Jackson eating popcorn gif moment if I ever saw one.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 14:31:07 GMT 1, I highly doubt a forum member sent an email to Young. Thats just malicious, but a spike in page views or s simple google search could tip the artist and photographer off.
As I said 2 pages ago, he should deal with it before the internet does it for him.
I highly doubt a forum member sent an email to Young. Thats just malicious, but a spike in page views or s simple google search could tip the artist and photographer off.
As I said 2 pages ago, he should deal with it before the internet does it for him.
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Fะฏ
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 8,264
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May 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Fะฏ on Nov 9, 2014 14:34:36 GMT 1, I highly doubt a forum member sent an email to Young. Thats just malicious, but a spike in page views or s simple google search could tip the artist and photographer off. As I said 2 pages ago, he should deal with it before the internet does it for him.
plenty who need to get out more.
I highly doubt a forum member sent an email to Young. Thats just malicious, but a spike in page views or s simple google search could tip the artist and photographer off. As I said 2 pages ago, he should deal with it before the internet does it for him. Oh theres plenty of spiteful people on here. plenty who need to get out more. |
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thomasmer
Junior Member
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July 2014
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by thomasmer on Nov 9, 2014 15:34:55 GMT 1, Wow it's great to see that loads of people don't agree with copying someone's artwork without permission! Shame that some don't feel the same, if it were your artwork that had blatantly been copied without permission perhaps you'd feel differently.. The artist Richard Young is my dad and he's fully aware of Martins 3 pieces he's 'borrowed' from him without copy right permission from my father or the photographer (who is also aware). He has contacted both graffiti prints and Martin and if they don't come to an agreement he will be pursuing via Design and Copyright Society (DACS), the Fine Art Trade Guild and at the Royal Society for Arts (RSA) who represent him. For anyone who hasn't seen dads painting here's a link.. www.ryoung-art.com/Dancer%20at%20peace%20oil%20painting.htmIf only Martin had asked permission eh!
Wow it's great to see that loads of people don't agree with copying someone's artwork without permission! Shame that some don't feel the same, if it were your artwork that had blatantly been copied without permission perhaps you'd feel differently.. The artist Richard Young is my dad and he's fully aware of Martins 3 pieces he's 'borrowed' from him without copy right permission from my father or the photographer (who is also aware). He has contacted both graffiti prints and Martin and if they don't come to an agreement he will be pursuing via Design and Copyright Society (DACS), the Fine Art Trade Guild and at the Royal Society for Arts (RSA) who represent him. For anyone who hasn't seen dads painting here's a link.. www.ryoung-art.com/Dancer%20at%20peace%20oil%20painting.htmIf only Martin had asked permission eh! Just out of morbid curiosity, which good soul on this board notified you of Martins crookedness? |
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thomasmer
Junior Member
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July 2014
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by thomasmer on Nov 9, 2014 15:36:08 GMT 1, Looking at Martins piece, he made her 30% uglier I'm sure that would stand up in court.
Looking at Martins piece, he made her 30% uglier I'm sure that would stand up in court.
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jlf
New Member
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July 2014
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by jlf on Nov 9, 2014 15:43:01 GMT 1, Am I the only one that thinks that CYOUNGART is most likely just a troll, I would imagine they would contact Martin or GP direct rather than on here
Am I the only one that thinks that CYOUNGART is most likely just a troll, I would imagine they would contact Martin or GP direct rather than on here
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monkeyface
New Member
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May 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by monkeyface on Nov 9, 2014 15:47:11 GMT 1, I highly doubt a forum member sent an email to Young. Thats just malicious, but a spike in page views or s simple google search could tip the artist and photographer off. As I said 2 pages ago, he should deal with it before the internet does it for him.
The artists daughter only joined here 4 days ago and has only posted on this thread.
I highly doubt a forum member sent an email to Young. Thats just malicious, but a spike in page views or s simple google search could tip the artist and photographer off. As I said 2 pages ago, he should deal with it before the internet does it for him. Assuming the member posting as Young's daughter is genuine I'm certain a forum member sent an e.mail to young (it wasn't me) The artists daughter only joined here 4 days ago and has only posted on this thread. |
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cyoungart
New Member
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November 2014
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by cyoungart on Nov 9, 2014 16:05:42 GMT 1, Haha I'm not a troll, I don't know how dad saw this forum, he sent me the link, but don't worry I don't think it was anyone from here that sent it. I think he stumbled upon it when he found Martins paintings.. I only joined a few days ago to comment on this thread (as lame as that sounds haha)
Haha I'm not a troll, I don't know how dad saw this forum, he sent me the link, but don't worry I don't think it was anyone from here that sent it. I think he stumbled upon it when he found Martins paintings.. I only joined a few days ago to comment on this thread (as lame as that sounds haha)
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cyoungart
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 4
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November 2014
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by cyoungart on Nov 9, 2014 16:09:09 GMT 1, Am I the only one that thinks that CYOUNGART is most likely just a troll, I would imagine they would contact Martin or GP direct rather than on here
They've both been contacted directly by Richard Young.
Am I the only one that thinks that CYOUNGART is most likely just a troll, I would imagine they would contact Martin or GP direct rather than on here They've both been contacted directly by Richard Young. |
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overend
New Member
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October 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by overend on Nov 9, 2014 16:09:41 GMT 1, Am I the only one that thinks that CYOUNGART is most likely just a troll, I would imagine they would contact Martin or GP direct rather than on here
Pretty disrespectful statement unless you have some proof so let's hear it.
Am I the only one that thinks that CYOUNGART is most likely just a troll, I would imagine they would contact Martin or GP direct rather than on here Pretty disrespectful statement unless you have some proof so let's hear it. |
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 16:15:58 GMT 1, Haha I'm not a troll, I don't know how dad saw this forum, he sent me the link, but don't worry I don't think it was anyone from here that sent it. I think he stumbled upon it when he found Martins paintings.. I only joined a few days ago to comment on this thread (as lame as that sounds haha)
I didnt realize it was numerous pieces, that sucks and could hurt.
Haha I'm not a troll, I don't know how dad saw this forum, he sent me the link, but don't worry I don't think it was anyone from here that sent it. I think he stumbled upon it when he found Martins paintings.. I only joined a few days ago to comment on this thread (as lame as that sounds haha) As I figured. anyone who owns a business or website checks traffic or gets stats and im sure there was a spike in unique views. When you see that you wonder what the source was, and it would lead straight to this thread. I didnt realize it was numerous pieces, that sucks and could hurt. |
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monkeyface
New Member
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May 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by monkeyface on Nov 9, 2014 16:18:00 GMT 1, Haha I'm not a troll, I don't know how dad saw this forum, he sent me the link, but don't worry I don't think it was anyone from here that sent it. I think he stumbled upon it when he found Martins paintings.. I only joined a few days ago to comment on this thread (as lame as that sounds haha)
Haha I'm not a troll, I don't know how dad saw this forum, he sent me the link, but don't worry I don't think it was anyone from here that sent it. I think he stumbled upon it when he found Martins paintings.. I only joined a few days ago to comment on this thread (as lame as that sounds haha) Stick around. For the most part this forum is a great place with some great members. |
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andyroo0312
Junior Member
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July 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by andyroo0312 on Nov 9, 2014 16:25:24 GMT 1, Good to hear everyones 2cents but at the end of the day martin has been caught being lazy and a little bit naughty, we all know everyone one does it to some degree but it must be pretty embarrassing to be caught out for the world to see but then again he probably doesn't give a shit.
Good to hear everyones 2cents but at the end of the day martin has been caught being lazy and a little bit naughty, we all know everyone one does it to some degree but it must be pretty embarrassing to be caught out for the world to see but then again he probably doesn't give a shit.
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Dr Plip
Junior Member
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August 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Dr Plip on Nov 9, 2014 16:34:30 GMT 1, Wow it's great to see that loads of people don't agree with copying someone's artwork without permission! Shame that some don't feel the same, if it were your artwork that had blatantly been copied without permission perhaps you'd feel differently.. The artist Richard Young is my dad and he's fully aware of Martins 3 pieces he's 'borrowed' from him without copy right permission from my father or the photographer (who is also aware). He has contacted both graffiti prints and Martin and if they don't come to an agreement he will be pursuing via Design and Copyright Society (DACS), the Fine Art Trade Guild and at the Royal Society for Arts (RSA) who represent him. For anyone who hasn't seen dads painting here's a link.. www.ryoung-art.com/Dancer%20at%20peace%20oil%20painting.htmIf only Martin had asked permission eh!
Wow it's great to see that loads of people don't agree with copying someone's artwork without permission! Shame that some don't feel the same, if it were your artwork that had blatantly been copied without permission perhaps you'd feel differently.. The artist Richard Young is my dad and he's fully aware of Martins 3 pieces he's 'borrowed' from him without copy right permission from my father or the photographer (who is also aware). He has contacted both graffiti prints and Martin and if they don't come to an agreement he will be pursuing via Design and Copyright Society (DACS), the Fine Art Trade Guild and at the Royal Society for Arts (RSA) who represent him. For anyone who hasn't seen dads painting here's a link.. www.ryoung-art.com/Dancer%20at%20peace%20oil%20painting.htmIf only Martin had asked permission eh! Hang on. 3 pieces?? I know of the ballerina, but what are the other 2? |
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johnnyh
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,492
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March 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by johnnyh on Nov 9, 2014 16:35:05 GMT 1, Haha I'm not a troll, I don't know how dad saw this forum, he sent me the link, but don't worry I don't think it was anyone from here that sent it. I think he stumbled upon it when he found Martins paintings.. I only joined a few days ago to comment on this thread (as lame as that sounds haha) As I figured. anyone who owns a business or website checks traffic or gets stats and im sure there was a spike in unique views. When you see that you wonder what the source was, and it would lead straight to this thread. I didnt realize it was numerous pieces, that sucks and could hurt.
or watching urban art threads....I would expect he reads his email though from the site. So would pretty much expect someone sent them the images and that where it picked up from and why CY ended up here.
whats not known yet and maybe Graffitti Prints can comment on where Martin created the stencil from as CY mentioned as does the artists site the photographer Barrett. Do one assumes dad painted the piece from a photo so interesting which the stencil came from eg Matins may also be a copy of the photo.
no idea but would be interested to hear Graff Prints point on this...very quiet for some one vocal on the thread recently!!
Haha I'm not a troll, I don't know how dad saw this forum, he sent me the link, but don't worry I don't think it was anyone from here that sent it. I think he stumbled upon it when he found Martins paintings.. I only joined a few days ago to comment on this thread (as lame as that sounds haha) As I figured. anyone who owns a business or website checks traffic or gets stats and im sure there was a spike in unique views. When you see that you wonder what the source was, and it would lead straight to this thread. I didnt realize it was numerous pieces, that sucks and could hurt. I would very much doubt his dad is reading a daily website traffic report!! or watching urban art threads....I would expect he reads his email though from the site. So would pretty much expect someone sent them the images and that where it picked up from and why CY ended up here. whats not known yet and maybe Graffitti Prints can comment on where Martin created the stencil from as CY mentioned as does the artists site the photographer Barrett. Do one assumes dad painted the piece from a photo so interesting which the stencil came from eg Matins may also be a copy of the photo. no idea but would be interested to hear Graff Prints point on this...very quiet for some one vocal on the thread recently!! |
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johnnyh
Junior Member
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March 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by johnnyh on Nov 9, 2014 16:37:20 GMT 1, DrPlip martin has a couple of dancer pieces so I suppose it's all the same source either this artist or the photographer
DrPlip martin has a couple of dancer pieces so I suppose it's all the same source either this artist or the photographer
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 16:39:08 GMT 1, As I figured. anyone who owns a business or website checks traffic or gets stats and im sure there was a spike in unique views. When you see that you wonder what the source was, and it would lead straight to this thread. I didnt realize it was numerous pieces, that sucks and could hurt. I would very much doubt his dad is reading a daily website traffic report!! or watching urban art threads....I would expect he reads his email though from the site. So would pretty much expect someone sent them the images and that where it picked up from and why CY ended up here. whats not known yet and maybe Graffitti Prints can comment on where Martin created the stencil from as CY mentioned as does the artists site the photographer Barrett. Do one assumes dad painted the piece from a photo so interesting which the stencil came from eg Matins may also be a copy of the photo. no idea but would be interested to hear Graff Prints point on this...very quiet for some one vocal on the thread recently!!
Google Analytics is pretty easy to get a report from as well, but if someone emailed the guy, so be it. bad taste and malicious IMO but to each their own.
As I figured. anyone who owns a business or website checks traffic or gets stats and im sure there was a spike in unique views. When you see that you wonder what the source was, and it would lead straight to this thread. I didnt realize it was numerous pieces, that sucks and could hurt. I would very much doubt his dad is reading a daily website traffic report!! or watching urban art threads....I would expect he reads his email though from the site. So would pretty much expect someone sent them the images and that where it picked up from and why CY ended up here. whats not known yet and maybe Graffitti Prints can comment on where Martin created the stencil from as CY mentioned as does the artists site the photographer Barrett. Do one assumes dad painted the piece from a photo so interesting which the stencil came from eg Matins may also be a copy of the photo. no idea but would be interested to hear Graff Prints point on this...very quiet for some one vocal on the thread recently!! We know the original was painted with a knife, and referenced with permission from the photographer. Whatsons is very clearly taken from the knife painting, you can tell by the layering of the screens on the arm and face. Its quite obvious. Google Analytics is pretty easy to get a report from as well, but if someone emailed the guy, so be it. bad taste and malicious IMO but to each their own. |
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jlf
New Member
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July 2014
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by jlf on Nov 9, 2014 16:47:56 GMT 1, Am I the only one that thinks that CYOUNGART is most likely just a troll, I would imagine they would contact Martin or GP direct rather than on here Pretty disrespectful statement unless you have some proof so let's hear it.
I am a fan of Martins work, but to have done this without contacting the person whose image you are using is bad on his part so I'm not trying to defend him if this is what happened (again I only know what I have seen on here, which may or may not be the full story).
I do stick by my point that this is not the right channel to get this resolved contacting Martin or GP would be the best way to sort it (which CYOUNGART says they have), and airing dirty laundry in public is rarely the best initial course of action
CYOUNGART if you are the real one sorry if it came off as disrespectful, that wasn't my intentions
Am I the only one that thinks that CYOUNGART is most likely just a troll, I would imagine they would contact Martin or GP direct rather than on here Pretty disrespectful statement unless you have some proof so let's hear it. It wasn't meant as disrespectful, it just seemed pretty convenient the timing of it all and I was just pointing out what a lot of people probably thought. I am a fan of Martins work, but to have done this without contacting the person whose image you are using is bad on his part so I'm not trying to defend him if this is what happened (again I only know what I have seen on here, which may or may not be the full story). I do stick by my point that this is not the right channel to get this resolved contacting Martin or GP would be the best way to sort it (which CYOUNGART says they have), and airing dirty laundry in public is rarely the best initial course of action CYOUNGART if you are the real one sorry if it came off as disrespectful, that wasn't my intentions |
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johnnyh
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,492
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March 2011
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by johnnyh on Nov 9, 2014 16:51:10 GMT 1, Yep agree hxfour think it was wrong for someone to maliciously email however that doesn't make Martin any less guilty. No idea on which was used as not really looked and have not seen the photo's etc.
But not sure we should be holding a hanging just yet think should at least give Graff prints the chance to comment etc first. Eg could be they got them from a site that was royalty free etc so do think we should just slow down a little bit then see.
Also breaking copyright is not the greatest crime in the world. Pretty much all stencils come from a photo etc
So let's just let it play out I think. Although personally I think using someone else's work is quite wrong
Yep agree hxfour think it was wrong for someone to maliciously email however that doesn't make Martin any less guilty. No idea on which was used as not really looked and have not seen the photo's etc.
But not sure we should be holding a hanging just yet think should at least give Graff prints the chance to comment etc first. Eg could be they got them from a site that was royalty free etc so do think we should just slow down a little bit then see.
Also breaking copyright is not the greatest crime in the world. Pretty much all stencils come from a photo etc
So let's just let it play out I think. Although personally I think using someone else's work is quite wrong
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 18:04:14 GMT 1, so whats the moral here with specific reference to street art ?
Keep it anon and on the street
Monetarise it and enter the world of copyright and capital
You can't have it both ways if you borrow an image Im afraid
of course, MWN could buy the original now and sorta give something back to the artist?
so whats the moral here with specific reference to street art ?
Keep it anon and on the street
Monetarise it and enter the world of copyright and capital
You can't have it both ways if you borrow an image Im afraid
of course, MWN could buy the original now and sorta give something back to the artist?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 18:08:08 GMT 1, "I am also interested in being represented by a suitable Publisher to handle reproduction and distribution rights for selected artwork. Please contact me if you are an interested Publisher, or if you know of one who may be interested."
www.ryoung-art.com/Prints.htm
Grafprints could do well by speaking to the artist direct on this - sorta complimentary IYKWIM- could avoid any messyness
"I am also interested in being represented by a suitable Publisher to handle reproduction and distribution rights for selected artwork. Please contact me if you are an interested Publisher, or if you know of one who may be interested." www.ryoung-art.com/Prints.htmGrafprints could do well by speaking to the artist direct on this - sorta complimentary IYKWIM- could avoid any messyness |
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kultur
New Member
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June 2010
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by kultur on Nov 9, 2014 18:19:01 GMT 1, If only Martin could also be sued for borrowing many other artists styles along with the stolen images.
Either way, this could and should be a big painful lesson. Especially if this artist got in touch with many of the other artists Martin has blatantly ripped off that have been posted over and over on the board. There might be nothing left.
The whole thing is really just sad and there really is no defending Martin in any rational manner.
Can't wait to see what the flippers decide... bow out and take a loss or if they will hold on and bet the prices will go up. LOL
One of my Penny pieces was supposed to be a HPM - he cut the stencils and then asked for permission but it was not given to him so it turned out to be a 1/1 and I also have the stencils. He learned his lesson quick!
If only Martin could also be sued for borrowing many other artists styles along with the stolen images.
Either way, this could and should be a big painful lesson. Especially if this artist got in touch with many of the other artists Martin has blatantly ripped off that have been posted over and over on the board. There might be nothing left.
The whole thing is really just sad and there really is no defending Martin in any rational manner.
Can't wait to see what the flippers decide... bow out and take a loss or if they will hold on and bet the prices will go up. LOL
One of my Penny pieces was supposed to be a HPM - he cut the stencils and then asked for permission but it was not given to him so it turned out to be a 1/1 and I also have the stencils. He learned his lesson quick!
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jadicicco
New Member
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June 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by jadicicco on Nov 9, 2014 18:26:45 GMT 1, I am a design engineer and if my company sees a competitors product and likes it, believe me we take it. Our lawyers inform us of what needs to be changed so it is not infringing on copyright/patent laws but believe me the changes are VERY minimal. I assume artwork copyrights are probably different and I don't pretend to know exactly how it works but as I said in my field it happens all the time with very very minimal changes.
I am a design engineer and if my company sees a competitors product and likes it, believe me we take it. Our lawyers inform us of what needs to be changed so it is not infringing on copyright/patent laws but believe me the changes are VERY minimal. I assume artwork copyrights are probably different and I don't pretend to know exactly how it works but as I said in my field it happens all the time with very very minimal changes.
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 19:20:53 GMT 1, whoa...have a load of posts gone missing ?
whoa...have a load of posts gone missing ?
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Happy Shopper on Nov 9, 2014 20:42:56 GMT 1, Isn't the law on copyright images used in art all about altering the meaning of the image?
The fair use rule... If it can be justified!?
Fairey fell fowl of it with his Obama image.. I assume he didn't change the meaning of the image enough.
It could be argued that Martin has changed it's meaning by adding the tags... But personally I don't think he has!
It's interesting though because it really focuses on the "tags" concept. Is it any more than a stylistic gimmick?
Is there an artist argument for it?
Isn't the law on copyright images used in art all about altering the meaning of the image?
The fair use rule... If it can be justified!?
Fairey fell fowl of it with his Obama image.. I assume he didn't change the meaning of the image enough.
It could be argued that Martin has changed it's meaning by adding the tags... But personally I don't think he has!
It's interesting though because it really focuses on the "tags" concept. Is it any more than a stylistic gimmick?
Is there an artist argument for it?
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Deleted
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January 1970
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 9, 2014 20:44:07 GMT 1, Can't believe this is still being discussed, to be honest I ain't really bothered!
Can't believe this is still being discussed, to be honest I ain't really bothered!
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bsimkin
New Member
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April 2006
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by bsimkin on Nov 9, 2014 20:59:40 GMT 1, Is En Point part of Martin's 'Unwanted Collaboration' series? Guy is on a roll. His tagging technique has gotten so good, makes you almost forget he just photocopied another artist. 
Is En Point part of Martin's 'Unwanted Collaboration' series? Guy is on a roll. His tagging technique has gotten so good, makes you almost forget he just photocopied another artist. |
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Poster Bob
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,891
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September 2013
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Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Poster Bob on Nov 9, 2014 21:13:09 GMT 1, I would assume that those musician stencils Martin did were also copied from R. young as they appear extremely similar.
I would assume that those musician stencils Martin did were also copied from R. young as they appear extremely similar.
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