.dappy
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,841
๐๐ป 9,462
December 2010
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by .dappy on Nov 13, 2014 23:07:32 GMT 1, Too many people scared to think and we wonder why the establishment get away with so much,
The Establishment
Too many people scared to think and we wonder why the establishment get away with so much, The Establishment
|
|
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by searchandrescue on Nov 13, 2014 23:25:46 GMT 1, Too many people scared to think and we wonder why the establishment get away with so much, The Establishment Nice image, too right, as long as the great unwashed want dfs sofas / two weeks holidays in Spain plus a flat screen telly they continue to get away with it!
Too many people scared to think and we wonder why the establishment get away with so much, The Establishment Nice image, too right, as long as the great unwashed want dfs sofas / two weeks holidays in Spain plus a flat screen telly they continue to get away with it!
|
|
Graffiti Prints
Art Gallery
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,245
๐๐ป 2,129
December 2006
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Graffiti Prints on Nov 14, 2014 0:21:06 GMT 1, There nothing more weird as normal
Pretty much what I love about artists and streetart, graffiti in general!
There nothing more weird as normal
Pretty much what I love about artists and streetart, graffiti in general!
|
|
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Rouen Cathedral on Nov 14, 2014 0:32:11 GMT 1, There nothing more weird as normal Pretty much what I love about artists and streetart, graffiti in general!
sooooooo.....
There nothing more weird as normal Pretty much what I love about artists and streetart, graffiti in general! sooooooo.....
|
|
.dappy
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,841
๐๐ป 9,462
December 2010
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by .dappy on Nov 14, 2014 0:35:53 GMT 1,
... LET THE FLOODGATES OPEN ...
... LET THE FLOODGATES OPEN ...
|
|
thomasmer
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,107
๐๐ป 565
July 2014
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by thomasmer on Nov 14, 2014 2:40:21 GMT 1, This thread is soul destroying. Reads like page 6 of the Daily Mail when theres no election immigration issues or a new war in the middle east.
Sad as fuck.
This thread is soul destroying. Reads like page 6 of the Daily Mail when theres no election immigration issues or a new war in the middle east. Sad as fuck.
|
|
|
johnnyh
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,492
๐๐ป 2,102
March 2011
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by johnnyh on Nov 14, 2014 7:27:58 GMT 1, Definately hang him, flog him and then deport him.......
Mmmm........"I know he lives in Norway but deport him to somewhere else then!!"
Definately hang him, flog him and then deport him.......
Mmmm........"I know he lives in Norway but deport him to somewhere else then!!"
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 16:48:21 GMT 1, Maybe Nuart can tell us what they saw in Whatsons art that they promoted him via their festival?
His art is pleasing on the eye and the zebra looked cool enough.
One of the things which made me not take Banksy seriously is when I found out he just ripped off images as in Morons etc and made stencils from photos.
Just made him less of an artist who painted on walls and more of a witty marketing business.
It's true though that you don't need much talent to make money, you just need good marketing ability and to know the right people.
Maybe Nuart can tell us what they saw in Whatsons art that they promoted him via their festival?
His art is pleasing on the eye and the zebra looked cool enough.
One of the things which made me not take Banksy seriously is when I found out he just ripped off images as in Morons etc and made stencils from photos.
Just made him less of an artist who painted on walls and more of a witty marketing business.
It's true though that you don't need much talent to make money, you just need good marketing ability and to know the right people.
|
|
Rene Gagnon
Artist
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 175
๐๐ป 62
September 2007
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Rene Gagnon on Nov 16, 2014 15:23:37 GMT 1, Copyright being one of them.
Copyright being one of them.
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 15:26:03 GMT 1, Maybe Nuart can tell us what they saw in Whatsons art that they promoted him via their festival? His art is pleasing on the eye and the zebra looked cool enough. One of the things which made me not take Banksy seriously is when I found out he just ripped off images as in Morons etc and made stencils from photos. Just made him less of an artist who painted on walls and more of a witty marketing business. It's true though that you don't need much talent to make money, you just need good marketing ability and to know the right people.
Get some good marketing then and search out and be friend the right people. Simples.
Maybe Nuart can tell us what they saw in Whatsons art that they promoted him via their festival? His art is pleasing on the eye and the zebra looked cool enough. One of the things which made me not take Banksy seriously is when I found out he just ripped off images as in Morons etc and made stencils from photos. Just made him less of an artist who painted on walls and more of a witty marketing business. It's true though that you don't need much talent to make money, you just need good marketing ability and to know the right people. Get some good marketing then and search out and be friend the right people. Simples.
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 15:43:24 GMT 1, In the Milly Vanilly Willy music world.
Sampling other peoples music is Ok as long as it's a small percentage of the original as far as I know.
In art it seems anything goes for some and many buyers are OK with that but to others even though it might be legal sometimes it does expose the real character of the artist.
Hirst did it a lot but he had a coke habit so maybe needed the money?
In the Milly Vanilly Willy music world.
Sampling other peoples music is Ok as long as it's a small percentage of the original as far as I know.
In art it seems anything goes for some and many buyers are OK with that but to others even though it might be legal sometimes it does expose the real character of the artist.
Hirst did it a lot but he had a coke habit so maybe needed the money?
|
|
Hairbland
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 2,946
๐๐ป 2,740
November 2010
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Hairbland on Nov 16, 2014 16:38:21 GMT 1, This thread is soul destroying. I literally cant read it any more, hurts my head
Yes, using one's brain for intellectual discussion can be painful.
But I do think this is a legitimate conversation with regards to Street Art, Urban Art, and I suppose Modern art as Richard Prince for example is not a Street/Urban artist but yet his case regarding the reggae appropriation was discussed at length in a thread maybe a year ago with most here aghast at what he did (although after some see-sawing court opinions he was exonerated).
Can't really rail against him and then defend Whatson.
But I also think, perhaps due to the much larger profiles that Banksy, KAWS, Faile, Obey and others have achieved that many artists that ARE NOT Street/Urban/Grafitti artists have decided to work their style into this concept for quicker acceptance and financial reward. A number of these artists release "prints" on a regular basis. Caveat emptor.
This thread is soul destroying. I literally cant read it any more, hurts my head Yes, using one's brain for intellectual discussion can be painful. But I do think this is a legitimate conversation with regards to Street Art, Urban Art, and I suppose Modern art as Richard Prince for example is not a Street/Urban artist but yet his case regarding the reggae appropriation was discussed at length in a thread maybe a year ago with most here aghast at what he did (although after some see-sawing court opinions he was exonerated). Can't really rail against him and then defend Whatson. But I also think, perhaps due to the much larger profiles that Banksy, KAWS, Faile, Obey and others have achieved that many artists that ARE NOT Street/Urban/Grafitti artists have decided to work their style into this concept for quicker acceptance and financial reward. A number of these artists release "prints" on a regular basis. Caveat emptor.
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 17:00:09 GMT 1, I literally cant read it any more, hurts my head Yes, using one's brain for intellectual discussion can be painful. But I do think this is a legitimate conversation with regards to Street Art, Urban Art, and I suppose Modern art as Richard Prince for example is not a Street/Urban artist but yet his case regarding the reggae appropriation was discussed at length in a thread maybe a year ago with most here aghast at what he did (although after some see-sawing court opinions he was exonerated). Can't really rail against him and then defend Whatson. But I also think, perhaps due to the much larger profiles that Banksy, KAWS, Faile, Obey and others have achieved that many artists that ARE NOT Street/Urban/Grafitti artists have decided to work their style into this concept for quicker acceptance and financial reward. A number of these artists release "prints" on a regular basis. Caveat emptor. Using my brain for intellect discussion doesnt hurt my brain, reading pages and pages of crap does though. Im not defending him or railing for him now, after 20 odd pages i stopped caring either way.
I literally cant read it any more, hurts my head Yes, using one's brain for intellectual discussion can be painful. But I do think this is a legitimate conversation with regards to Street Art, Urban Art, and I suppose Modern art as Richard Prince for example is not a Street/Urban artist but yet his case regarding the reggae appropriation was discussed at length in a thread maybe a year ago with most here aghast at what he did (although after some see-sawing court opinions he was exonerated). Can't really rail against him and then defend Whatson. But I also think, perhaps due to the much larger profiles that Banksy, KAWS, Faile, Obey and others have achieved that many artists that ARE NOT Street/Urban/Grafitti artists have decided to work their style into this concept for quicker acceptance and financial reward. A number of these artists release "prints" on a regular basis. Caveat emptor. Using my brain for intellect discussion doesnt hurt my brain, reading pages and pages of crap does though. Im not defending him or railing for him now, after 20 odd pages i stopped caring either way.
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 15:42:53 GMT 1,
|
|
|
Dr Plip
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 7,043
๐๐ป 8,981
August 2011
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Dr Plip on Nov 18, 2014 15:55:37 GMT 1, My dog and I accept your challenge. [br I'd pay good money to see that Plip... post wip pics please Sorry Dr Plip We're currently going through some ideas. It's slow going though, as we're having "artistic differences"...
My dog and I accept your challenge. [br I'd pay good money to see that Plip... post wip pics please Sorry Dr Plip We're currently going through some ideas. It's slow going though, as we're having "artistic differences"...
|
|
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by commissioner on Nov 18, 2014 16:37:40 GMT 1, Dr Plip,
let me know what u decide, the whole thing is exhausting
Dr Plip, let me know what u decide, the whole thing is exhausting
|
|
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Rouen Cathedral on Nov 18, 2014 17:25:39 GMT 1, [br I'd pay good money to see that Plip... post wip pics please Sorry Dr Plip We're currently going through some ideas. It's slow going though, as we're having "artistic differences"...
I'm going to take this photo. Running it through illustrator in 1.2 seconds and take that and make a stencil!
$175 for a limited edition of 1000. Who wants one!
[br I'd pay good money to see that Plip... post wip pics please Sorry Dr Plip We're currently going through some ideas. It's slow going though, as we're having "artistic differences"... I'm going to take this photo. Running it through illustrator in 1.2 seconds and take that and make a stencil! $175 for a limited edition of 1000. Who wants one!
|
|
.dappy
Full Member
๐จ๏ธ 9,841
๐๐ป 9,462
December 2010
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by .dappy on Nov 18, 2014 20:15:00 GMT 1, ... yes, but who owns the copyright ...
... yes, but who owns the copyright ...
|
|
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Rouen Cathedral on Nov 18, 2014 21:05:40 GMT 1, ... yes, but who owns the copyright ...
Haha who cares this is urban art and I want mulah!!!!
... yes, but who owns the copyright ... Haha who cares this is urban art and I want mulah!!!!
|
|
R Young Art
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 1
๐๐ป 5
November 2014
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by R Young Art on Dec 4, 2014 19:40:16 GMT 1, Gents, Thank you for your support and on the whole, kind comments. And thank you so much to Graffiti Prints for their ultimate professionalism throughout. All has been amicably resolved. Richard - www.ryoung-art.com
Gents, Thank you for your support and on the whole, kind comments. And thank you so much to Graffiti Prints for their ultimate professionalism throughout. All has been amicably resolved. Richard - www.ryoung-art.com
|
|
samfrost
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 787
๐๐ป 530
June 2014
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by samfrost on Dec 4, 2014 20:22:30 GMT 1, Gents, Thank you for your support and on the whole, kind comments. And thank you so much to Graffiti Prints for their ultimate professionalism throughout. All has been amicably resolved. Richard - www.ryoung-art.com Glad that this saga is over. Looking forward to more MW and RY collabs!
Gents, Thank you for your support and on the whole, kind comments. And thank you so much to Graffiti Prints for their ultimate professionalism throughout. All has been amicably resolved. Richard - www.ryoung-art.comGlad that this saga is over. Looking forward to more MW and RY collabs!
|
|
Fairxat
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 464
๐๐ป 127
May 2013
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Fairxat on Dec 4, 2014 21:32:07 GMT 1, Next
Next
|
|
|
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Howard Johnson on Dec 5, 2014 3:46:44 GMT 1, This tread is a great read. I'm surprised that their aren't more lawyers on this forum, or maybe they decided not to chime in. I run an art law blog, and we've written articles about Price and how to legally incorporate copyrighted material into art work under fair use (their included below if anyone is interested).
While Price did fundamentally change the application of fair use (the standard is that the new workโs expression and presentation are fundamentally different to an average viewer), that rule technically is only applicable in the 2nd circuit (NY), and the original artist would likely have a very strong case against MW if he filed suit in any other district. The majority rule is that an artist needs to directly comment or criticize the original work, in order to be deemed "transformative." This would apply to the Banksy/Hirst image; Banksy uses the copyrighted material of another artist to comment directly on said copyrighted material. D*face uses aspects of Lichtenstein's work to criticize Lichtenstein's glorification of americana. MW's image does not not contain the same type of direct criticism.
Further, copyright exists in many different aspects of the work, not only its totality. The pose, lighting, color scheme, and specific details of every line are owned in copyright by the original artist. One of the other factors is how much of said material is incorporated in the new work. Here, MW made drastic color changes, but the vast majority of the image remained the same. Finally, the second most important aspect is the damage to the original work's market value, aka do the same people purchase both of the pieces. I think that MW would have a strong argument that the contemporary and urban markets are separate and distinct enough to the point that no one bought MW's piece instead of the original print. However, it doesn't help that they are the same medium and feature basically the same image.
As for the fact that GP and MW live in the UK, the original artist could still file a suit in the US if either of the parties directly sold these prints to purchasers in the US (jurisdiction would require another technical legal analysis).
Personally, I think the law will be changing in this area to accommodate for the vast amount of appropriation art work that is being produced.s**t, it seems like every single major street artist has done some sort of Warhol appropriation piece without any repercussions from the Warhol foundation. From a moral standpoint any artist should always clear the use of copyrighted material. Is the original artist going to file suit against MW? Probably not. These suits are extremely expensive and it honestly wouldn't be worth the time or money. MW likely considered this risk, weighed it, and choose to roll the dice anyways. If you don't condone this type of activity, take a stand and don't by the work or return it. Realistically, the voice of the collector community is the only thing that can really make a change.
Fair use: dlreporter.com/2014/01/30/copyrighted-material-artwork/
Prince: dlreporter.com/2014/04/09/what-prince-v-cariou-can-teach-us-about-fair-use-and-appropriation-art/
This tread is a great read. I'm surprised that their aren't more lawyers on this forum, or maybe they decided not to chime in. I run an art law blog, and we've written articles about Price and how to legally incorporate copyrighted material into art work under fair use (their included below if anyone is interested). While Price did fundamentally change the application of fair use (the standard is that the new workโs expression and presentation are fundamentally different to an average viewer), that rule technically is only applicable in the 2nd circuit (NY), and the original artist would likely have a very strong case against MW if he filed suit in any other district. The majority rule is that an artist needs to directly comment or criticize the original work, in order to be deemed "transformative." This would apply to the Banksy/Hirst image; Banksy uses the copyrighted material of another artist to comment directly on said copyrighted material. D*face uses aspects of Lichtenstein's work to criticize Lichtenstein's glorification of americana. MW's image does not not contain the same type of direct criticism. Further, copyright exists in many different aspects of the work, not only its totality. The pose, lighting, color scheme, and specific details of every line are owned in copyright by the original artist. One of the other factors is how much of said material is incorporated in the new work. Here, MW made drastic color changes, but the vast majority of the image remained the same. Finally, the second most important aspect is the damage to the original work's market value, aka do the same people purchase both of the pieces. I think that MW would have a strong argument that the contemporary and urban markets are separate and distinct enough to the point that no one bought MW's piece instead of the original print. However, it doesn't help that they are the same medium and feature basically the same image. As for the fact that GP and MW live in the UK, the original artist could still file a suit in the US if either of the parties directly sold these prints to purchasers in the US (jurisdiction would require another technical legal analysis). Personally, I think the law will be changing in this area to accommodate for the vast amount of appropriation art work that is being produced.s**t, it seems like every single major street artist has done some sort of Warhol appropriation piece without any repercussions from the Warhol foundation. From a moral standpoint any artist should always clear the use of copyrighted material. Is the original artist going to file suit against MW? Probably not. These suits are extremely expensive and it honestly wouldn't be worth the time or money. MW likely considered this risk, weighed it, and choose to roll the dice anyways. If you don't condone this type of activity, take a stand and don't by the work or return it. Realistically, the voice of the collector community is the only thing that can really make a change. Fair use: dlreporter.com/2014/01/30/copyrighted-material-artwork/Prince: dlreporter.com/2014/04/09/what-prince-v-cariou-can-teach-us-about-fair-use-and-appropriation-art/
|
|
thomasmer
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 1,107
๐๐ป 565
July 2014
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by thomasmer on Dec 5, 2014 4:15:58 GMT 1, Such vomit.
Artists should be exempt from this constricting whiteman bullshit.
Such vomit.
Artists should be exempt from this constricting whiteman bullshit.
|
|
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Howard Johnson on Dec 5, 2014 4:33:06 GMT 1, Such vomit. Artists should be exempt from this constricting whiteman bulls**t. The purpose of copyright law is to protect artists. Every single working artist (visual artists, authors, filmmakers) relys on these protections to make a living.
Such vomit. Artists should be exempt from this constricting whiteman bulls**t. The purpose of copyright law is to protect artists. Every single working artist (visual artists, authors, filmmakers) relys on these protections to make a living.
|
|
dreadnatty
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 5,431
๐๐ป 6,992
February 2013
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by dreadnatty on Dec 5, 2014 5:06:50 GMT 1, Such vomit. Artists should be exempt from this constricting whiteman bulls**t. Whiteman. Really?
Such vomit. Artists should be exempt from this constricting whiteman bulls**t. Whiteman. Really?
|
|
Deleted
๐จ๏ธ 0
๐๐ป
January 1970
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 9:21:04 GMT 1, Such vomit. Artists should be exempt from this constricting whiteman bulls**t. The purpose of copyright law is to protect artists. Every single working artist (visual artists, authors, filmmakers) relys on these protections to make a living. Possibly in a pre-digital age, but copyright law was hijacked by corporations long ago, it's now generally employed by corporate lawyers as a tool to propagate fear amongst your average consumer in order to protect the interests of the 1%. I'm with Thomasmer.
As for "MW's image does not not contain the same type of direct criticism"
Employing tags (and everything they inherently stand for) on elements taken from "high" culture and nature (Ballet Dancers, Michelangelo's David etc etc) would be regarded as "direct criticism". That's what tagging is. That's what tagging does.
Such vomit. Artists should be exempt from this constricting whiteman bulls**t. The purpose of copyright law is to protect artists. Every single working artist (visual artists, authors, filmmakers) relys on these protections to make a living. Possibly in a pre-digital age, but copyright law was hijacked by corporations long ago, it's now generally employed by corporate lawyers as a tool to propagate fear amongst your average consumer in order to protect the interests of the 1%. I'm with Thomasmer. As for "MW's image does not not contain the same type of direct criticism"Employing tags (and everything they inherently stand for) on elements taken from "high" culture and nature (Ballet Dancers, Michelangelo's David etc etc) would be regarded as "direct criticism". That's what tagging is. That's what tagging does.
|
|
woomas
New Member
๐จ๏ธ 188
๐๐ป 160
November 2011
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by woomas on Dec 5, 2014 12:29:34 GMT 1, This is the Coldplay of prints......utter garbage!
This is the Coldplay of prints......utter garbage!
|
|
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Howard Johnson on Dec 5, 2014 22:49:31 GMT 1, Nuart, you raise some really good points. I never thought of the tagging as a criticism on the high art ballet depiction but thats a great viewpoint. While I agree that corporations have the means to enforce copyrights, and are often the one to do so, I think that the brunt of protections still are there for artists. A good example is the recent suit against American Eagle by street artist AholSniffsGlue. They used his art without his permission in an ad campaign and he was able to force them to stop by enforcing his copyrights.
Nuart, you raise some really good points. I never thought of the tagging as a criticism on the high art ballet depiction but thats a great viewpoint. While I agree that corporations have the means to enforce copyrights, and are often the one to do so, I think that the brunt of protections still are there for artists. A good example is the recent suit against American Eagle by street artist AholSniffsGlue. They used his art without his permission in an ad campaign and he was able to force them to stop by enforcing his copyrights.
|
|
Dungle
Junior Member
๐จ๏ธ 4,008
๐๐ป 5,174
June 2011
|
Martin Whatson En Pointe Print Release, by Dungle on Dec 5, 2014 23:05:35 GMT 1, Nuart, you raise some really good points. I never thought of the tagging as a criticism on the high art ballet depiction but thats a great viewpoint. While I agree that corporations have the means to enforce copyrights, and are often the one to do so, I think that the brunt of protections still are there for artists. A good example is the recent suit against American Eagle by street artist AholSniffsGlue. They used his art without his permission in an ad campaign and he was able to force them to stop by enforcing his copyrights.
So could Penguin books sue Harland Miller?
Nuart, you raise some really good points. I never thought of the tagging as a criticism on the high art ballet depiction but thats a great viewpoint. While I agree that corporations have the means to enforce copyrights, and are often the one to do so, I think that the brunt of protections still are there for artists. A good example is the recent suit against American Eagle by street artist AholSniffsGlue. They used his art without his permission in an ad campaign and he was able to force them to stop by enforcing his copyrights. So could Penguin books sue Harland Miller?
|
|